Level Sync needs an Off Button! : ).

[branmakmuffin]

Not to mention, I still think the content itself is irrelevant. Why? Because it's the reward thats relevant, not the content.

 

You could have slapped the gift tokens anywhere and gamers would have done it. The level sync was added just to make sure it took you a bit longer to get the reward running 4 year old content for the relevant reward. The heroics, where you go to get them is still old and irrelevant content to the story. The reward however is relevant.

it's only irrelevant, for you, if you think it's irrelevant.

[Exscarion]

Btw how you farm it for the money? By doing it in group with bonus objectives? Because if so and you compare it. Than before level sync, you got less money from most of heroics for same amount of time you spend on them now. (with some rare exceptions, where you were repeatedly doing same things over and over)

 

on 90% alone, because i am faster and got rarely somebody to do this bonuses. often enough they wanna see a ridicoulus amount of mobs or other crab.

 

It's all a game. Tell us, which parts are more "relevant" than others, in an objective sense?

 

well i see where ya wanna go with this. but isn't the relevant part to advance in the main story and then get geared for the next objectives ahead?

[ShawDou]

on 90% alone, because i am faster and got rarely somebody to do this bonuses. often enough they wanna see a ridicoulus amount of mobs or other crab.

 

Even alone, you now get 15k-17k just for finishing the heroic quests + several crystals + crate which drop item and 5+ companion gift, which is much more than you got before. So it still might be same or more money for the time spend compared before patch.

Edited February 5, 2016 by ShawDou

[Quraswren]

it's only irrelevant, for you, if you think it's irrelevant.

 

It's actually pretty irrelevant to you as well because no matter where you put the reward, thats where you would be other than the 4 year old content the reward is tacked onto now. BW just needed a way to keep make sure what you did was at a slower pace. AKA down leveling for the reward. Where they put the reward doesn't mean jack.

 

Since you get more money (bigger reward) for heroic now than you got before level sync (for same amount of time spend) your point makes no sense. You say the reward is the relevant , but now you get more than before which means changes are good.

 

Like I said, it's the reward that makes you do it, not the content. The reward is what makes it relevant. More reward while good doesn't mean the 4 year old content is. Stick that reward anywhere and suddenly that content gets done but otherwise, you might not even bother.

 

and I dare say I made more money before down leveling doing the same heroics. They were just so easy to waffle stomp. You could complete so much more in such a short time it was amazing. Now it just feels like you're trying to run through sludge. Forced to run the same content you were already doing but now slower because, well screw you just do it slower it good for business.

 

Down leveling needed to be optional from the first day of design and should have never been released till it was.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Quraswren

[branmakmuffin]

It's actually pretty irrelevant to you as well because no matter where you put the reward, thats where you would be other than the 4 year old content the reward is tacked onto now. BW just needed a way to keep make sure what you did was at a slower pace. AKA down leveling for the reward. Where they put the reward doesn't mean jack.

If I think a quest or a reward or whatever in the game is relevant, then it's relevant, for me. If you think otherwise, then you think otherwise.

 

IOW, "in-game relevance" is a matter of opinion. To me, WZs are irrelevant. To others, they are highly relevant.

Edited February 5, 2016 by branmakmuffin

[Quraswren]

If I think a quest or a reward or whatever in the game is relevant, then it's relevant, for me. If you think otherwise, then you think otherwise.

 

and I bet you do it for the rewards, otherwise you probably don't in most cases.

 

IOW, "in-game relevance" is a matter of opinion. To me, WZs are irrelevant. To others, they are highly relevant.

 

PVP is a different beast. You can do the same map and have an entirely different experience (AKA part of the reward for PVP) plus whatever else they give you. It's entirely different for PVP to keep things relevant and interesting.

 

PVE however is a very similar experience, everytime. It's the rewards that keep you going and keep it relevant. The rewards that keep you repeating the same 1 - 4 year old content over and over. Kinda like the thread on running dailies. That old content is no longer relevant but through in a new reward and BOOM, suddenly people are there again.

[branmakmuffin]

and I bet you do it for the rewards, otherwise you probably don't in most cases.

In most cases, I do them for the XP when leveling a new character. There are few I do because I enjoy them (I like the conversation with the Twi'lek "god" at the end of "Botched Interrogation" on Imp NS).

 

Anything we get as a result of doing a heroic, or any quest or any other activity in game, is a "reward" for doing it, whether that is the XP, the creds, the Alliance crates or the enjoyment of doing it. So technically, every single thing any of us do in the game is done for "the reward."

[Quraswren]

In most cases, I do them for the XP when leveling a new character. There are few I do because I enjoy them (I like the conversation with the Twi'lek "god" at the end of "Botched Interrogation" on Imp NS).

 

Anything we get as a result of doing a heroic, or any quest or any other activity in game, is a "reward" for doing it, whether that is the XP, the creds, the Alliance crates or the enjoyment of doing it. So technically, every single thing any of us do in the game is done for "the reward."

 

Exactly my point.

 

And when the reward is not good enough. Most wont do it. No matter what the content is. In this case, heroics. The reward makes that content relevant, not the content itself. Those heroics haven't been relevant in years. Slap that reward on there doesn't make the content any more relevant but the reward is as hell is as it ties directly into the new story. The 4 year old heroics mean nothing.

 

Then you add in the down leveling to make the entire process slower to get that reward, while doing 4 year old content that still isn't relevant and doesn't tie into the story at all and suddenly you realize just how poorly down leveling is and was implemented just to slow you down doing content well past it's life cycle.

[tattoohero]

it's only irrelevant, for you, if you think it's irrelevant.

 

The person doesn't even understand the definition of both relevant and irrelevant.

 

The planet heroics are more relevant now than they were before 4.0 because many people skipped them.

[IanArgent]

IF the reward isn't good enough - don't do it.

 

But when they moved the designed primary credit fountains from daily adventure zones to H2s, they needed to increase the difficulty/time sink (loosely related) so that the effort/time required to get equivalent credits remained the same. As it happens, I think they erred on the side of making it too easy. Even with level sync, it takes less time and effort at level cap to gain the same amount of credits/week. Same goes for mat farming. Basically, you want a reward, you gotta put in some effort, and a (small, in the case of the extreme end of level sync) risk.

 

Unless you're asking to get rewarded appropriate to the base level instead of your own level when you disengage level sync (basically no credits), no, there should not be a toggle. And if you only want to turn it off so you can roflstop enemies for the sheer joy of splattering them and no rewards past that, I gotta ask, why? (Especially outside of instances, where other people would like to kill those mobs for an actual reward).

 

(Side note, if all there is with a no-sync toggle is smashing greys like bugs for negligible reward, then why waste limited dev and, more importantly, QA, resources on it)

[Exscarion]

 

Unless you're asking to get rewarded appropriate to the base level instead of your own level when you disengage level sync (basically no credits), no, there should not be a toggle. And if you only want to turn it off so you can roflstop enemies for the sheer joy of splattering them and no rewards past that, I gotta ask, why? (Especially outside of instances, where other people would like to kill those mobs for an actual reward).

 

(Side note, if all there is with a no-sync toggle is smashing greys like bugs for negligible reward, then why waste limited dev and, more importantly, QA, resources on it)

 

 

well actually, at the time there was no LS, i wished that i could have a toggle to synch me down, to see what i am now about with this mobs. but then i asked my self, how could i get fairly synced down(ignoring if i get any reward for it, or not), so that my advanced gear is still on some effect, but not to much. my conclusion: there is no fair way to do so, so just keep it like it is!

 

now a times? i wish that there would exist a toggle to turn the sync off, to have a glue, what my new advanced gear is bringing to the table, after farming it for some months. and well there is no problem with a fairness threat (just give me that damn crate - and the rep costs are already payed with this crate-, hell even turn off the achievemants for it, i wouldn't care). but just give me the option to see my works - effort would some name it - is worthy something and pay tribute to the evidence, that i already payed my dues to suceed this h2 things!

[IanArgent]

well actually, at the time there was no LS, i wished that i could have a toggle to synch me down, to see what i am now about with this mobs. but then i asked my self, how could i get fairly synced down(ignoring if i get any reward for it, or not), so that my advanced gear is still on some effect, but not to much. my conclusion: there is no fair way to do so, so just keep it like it is!

 

now a times? i wish that there would exist a toggle to turn the sync off, to have a glue, what my new advanced gear is bringing to the table, after farming it for some months. and well there is no problem with a fairness threat (just give me that damn crate - and the rep costs are already payed with this crate-, hell even turn off the achievemants for it, i wouldn't care). but just give me the option to see my works - effort would some name it - is worthy something and pay tribute to the evidence, that i already payed my dues to suceed this h2 things!

 

So you want reward without risk or effort.

[Exscarion]

So you want reward without risk or effort.

 

i guess you didn't read properly. just a recognition, when i do one of this quests without LS, not the full reward. otherside should it be enough attempt to even do this timeold content, once more over and over again. if they didn't force this LS on us, we wouldn't even talk about this effort crap!

 

just to turn the tide: only because you love this idiotism, you want everybody else to waste time, where is no necessarity to? and would be used better elsewhere?

seems pretty egotistical to me

[IanArgent]

i guess you didn't read properly. just a recognition, when i do one of this quests without LS, not the full reward. otherside should it be enough attempt to even do this timeold content, once more over and over again. if they didn't force this LS on us, we wouldn't even talk about this effort crap!

 

just to turn the tide: only because you love this idiotism, you want everybody else to waste time, where is no necessarity to? and would be used better elsewhere?

seems pretty egotistical to me

 

Depends on your definition of "necessary." If you get a (mechanically-significant, IE, cash or gear) reward, then you gotta put in the time and effort, IMO. To quote myself: "if there is a reward, there needs to be an effort." FWIW, I personally have seen a lot more money come into my characters by them switching to the primary credit fountains being weekly H2s than the old daily zones, so despite level sync, the credits for play time ratio has gone up. And even in the old daily zones under sync, time to clear the dailies was not meaningfully impacted (I kept records around the transition to 4.0 - it got a little longer to clear Oricon, but CZ and Black Hole got EASIER).

 

I think they ought to turn down the aggro radius slightly the higher level you are (especially if you're on a mount), and figure out a way to get some story-line significant encounters out from under level sync on low level planets. But for H2s and open-world encounters in general, no toggle for level sync.

[IanArgent]

And it's not out of any "love" for level sync that makes me not want a toggle. I don't care that much about it, it's just a mechanic. My objection to any kind of toggle is the increased loss on the QA team that would result. It would at least double the number of test cases that have to be run, and probably increase by more than that.

 

I will admit to liking some of the things they've done with the tool of level sync. I prefer grinding heroics to grinding the daily areas for my credits. I like that overlevelling content during the story process doesn't trivialize the story content. I like that the rewards for heroics are level appropriate now.

[Friend-Referral]

If I think a quest or a reward or whatever in the game is relevant, then it's relevant, for me. If you think otherwise, then you think otherwise.

 

IOW, "in-game relevance" is a matter of opinion. To me, WZs are irrelevant. To others, they are highly relevant.

If you think a quest or reward is irrelevant, then don't run it. "Problem" solved.

 

[Exscarion]

I will admit to liking some of the things they've done with the tool of level sync. I prefer grinding heroics to grinding the daily areas for my credits. I like that overlevelling content during the story process doesn't trivialize the story content. I like that the rewards for heroics are level appropriate now.

 

well when you wanna level a toon, just to have it up to help your guild on operations, this is the biggest **** ever^^

if ya doing it to enjoy the story, it's just cool.

 

so the one is just contradicting the other now, thanks to LS.

[IanArgent]

well when you wanna level a toon, just to have it up to help your guild on operations, this is the biggest **** ever^^

if ya doing it to enjoy the story, it's just cool.

 

so the one is just contradicting the other now, thanks to LS.

 

?? It's EASIER to power-level a character now - I had a L60-ish character by Imp Taris just by doing every quest I game across and using minimal XP boosters. You can do it even quicker by running just the purple missions, a couple of solo-mode flashpoints and planetary heroics, and using the XP boosters you get as rewards from time to time.

 

(Not that enabling power-leveling is worth expending dev time on, but it's not worth preventing, either)

[Ratajack]

i guess you didn't read properly. just a recognition, when i do one of this quests without LS, not the full reward. otherside should it be enough attempt to even do this timeold content, once more over and over again. if they didn't force this LS on us, we wouldn't even talk about this effort crap!

 

just to turn the tide: only because you love this idiotism, you want everybody else to waste time, where is no necessarity to? and would be used better elsewhere?

seems pretty egotistical to me

 

Just a recognition?

 

Allow me to quote you:

 

well actually, at the time there was no LS, i wished that i could have a toggle to synch me down, to see what i am now about with this mobs. but then i asked my self, how could i get fairly synced down(ignoring if i get any reward for it, or not), so that my advanced gear is still on some effect, but not to much. my conclusion: there is no fair way to do so, so just keep it like it is!

 

now a times? i wish that there would exist a toggle to turn the sync off, to have a glue, what my new advanced gear is bringing to the table, after farming it for some months. and well there is no problem with a fairness threat (just give me that damn crate - and the rep costs are already payed with this crate-, hell even turn off the achievemants for it, i wouldn't care). but just give me the option to see my works - effort would some name it - is worthy something and pay tribute to the evidence, that i already payed my dues to suceed this h2 things!

 

 

You want to be able to do the content without level sync and yet still be rewarded with the crate.

 

That sure sounds like you want the reward without the risk to me.

[pspenard]

Turning off level synch? Look at the ramifications. World bosses would be downed by a couple of 65's and none of them would be around for players to fight. Always in respawn at times most likely.

 

Commander hunts for drops for guildship expansions - ummm yeah. No commanders would be around because 65's would swoop in and wipe them all out. Try to get drops for your ship expansions normally and it can be challenge. If you were selling the framweorks for 10-15 million bye bye guild bank revenue.

 

World PVP - if you are lower level you are doomed. At least with level sync you have a chance. World of Warcraft has shown this. Wanna get ganked over and over?

 

I have found level synch is not much of a hindrance. I still am a force to be reckoned with because I get ALL my abilities. Not like City of Heroes when you side kicked to a lower level and lost abilities. I still miss City of Heroes.

 

sadly most people complaining about level synch just want to gank others, farm content or items at low risk. If it happened you would not get much money back from farming items. Why? you and everyone else would be doing it and a glut would appear on the GTN. You would find yourself back on the forums crying about a ruined economy. "Why are my frameworks selling for 100k????? I hate you Bioware I am unsubbing! /ragequit"

[Tourmaline]

I think it was a good ad because it was so lame the lvl 60s that would sit in the coruscant spaceport that would try to duel the lowbie new arrivals then grief them and call them names if they declined. Saw this happen 3x on EH and just thought it was pathetic. At least now they have to duel people on a level playing field.

[Quraswren]

SNIP... At least now they have to duel people on a level playing field.

 

Leveling playing field? You mean the one where a level 65 has more secondary stats, more skills to use and is more than likely in PVP gear to boot and that somehow is a leveling playing field?

[Xtro]

You roll over mobs anyway, you just don't do it with single hit, so no farming and no bots.

 

Lowbies aren't a mere insects and can actually a gank up on you and chase you away.

 

There is no downside to level scaling unless you're lowbie griefer or gold farmer.

 

Sooo agree with this.

[kirorx]

I am leveling by just doing the 2 man heorics and doing absoluty all content on my favorite planets. Its so much fun since I have already played the main storylines so many times. Level sync has been awesome

[toragn]

Hi,

 

I like the idea of level-sync. And it was more or less needed to try and make old content relevant for the alliance-grind. But as many others have pointed out already it doesn't really work.

 

I play swtor super-casually, you might never even meet anyone more casual than me. Still I am more or less a god when I run heroics. Ok, I get scaled down to a level (often to high though) but I still have all my skills and it also seems augments and some tertiary stats still apply.

 

Then you add companions of high level and the difference between running the stuff over-leveled or scaled down gets minuscule, so the only difference we get with LS is getting better rewards for easy content.

 

Not easy to solve, I agree. But maybe they should have scaled UP the heroics to 65 instead if you run them on a lev 65. That way it could still have been kept somewhat of a challenge without destroying the fun for those who run them on level.

 

Regards

/T