@Bioware, there's still time to remedy Early Access...

[Pagy]

They did not say these things in emails, also only hardcore players watch dev streams and go to the forums for information. The bottom line is that there main marketing campaign exists on SWTOR.com and requires a disclaimer in order to be understood. Also they sent out emails that never directed people that clicked on the terms of service to be giving the term of service in stead they were directed here: http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards when they should have been directed to the terms of service page for clarification. Regardless of intent the marketing campaign and is misleading and confusing!

not true, i just dug through my archives and the first email had this:

*Terms and Conditions Apply. Click Here For Details.

 

but according to some, this was in big bold letters.

[LexonLightsaber]

Except that it was not fine print. They sent out emails with banners with bold tan (golden tan? That color is hard to describe) letters blasting me in the face with "be subscribed on these dates" to qualify. If that was fine print, I'd hate to read bold print. That'd be for blind drivers from Texas or something.

 

Either way, those who didn't read still get the access in only a few days. it's not like it's one of those MMO games that gives a whole month or something.

 

It was fine print because you had to scroll down the entire page in order to get the clarifying statement: To qualify for the Early Access Bonus, you must have qualified for each of the four rewards by being a subscriber on each of the 4 listed reward dates. My question to you is why didn't Bioware just say: To qualify for the Early Access Bonus, you must have qualified for each of the four rewards by being a subscriber on each of the 4 listed reward dates in the marketing campaign? Why? I don't want to presume but clearly that statement is very well written and clear unlike all the marketing advertisements used to entice consumers. So please tell me why the marketing campaign needed a disclaimer if it was so straightforward, why?

[Faelandaea]

Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!

 

And see I read that as "Be subscribed during that whole time period." I read that and immediately snagged a 6-month sub.

 

Ah, well. Either way, it's only a few days. Even if BW did decide, "Okay, lets write some code to get other folks into early access", by the time they got that done and patched in, the access would be pretty much over anyway. So at this point, regardless of which side of the debate we are on, it's really a moot point.

[Pagy]

And see I read that as "Be subscribed during that whole time period." I read that and immediately snagged a 6-month sub.

 

Ah, well. Either way, it's only a few days. Even if BW did decide, "Okay, lets write some code to get other folks into early access", by the time they got that done and patched in, the access would be pretty much over anyway. So at this point, regardless of which side of the debate we are on, it's really a moot point.

i agree with all of this for sure. people misread it and i don't believe bw owes us anything.

 

and like you said, 7 days isnt a big deal, i dont see the need to rush; especially to 65. in fact if i dont get 65 with the kotfe quest xp i doubt i ever will. i mean what's the point? get to 65 then what?

[VanorDM]

the conditions for the items were clear, the early access was not.

 

Yeah they were, if you bothered to read them.

 

proof: this thread and the dozen others.

 

The only thing these threads prove, is that people feel the need to blame someone else. It's not like things like this are rare, the same thing happens every time any MMO or most other product for that matter offers something exclusive, to people who do X...

 

There's always people who will claim that the offer was misleading and that the company should change the rules after the fact to suit them.

 

I don't have early access, and knew I wouldn't because I didn't resub until sept 29th. Because I read the whole page, not just the banner. But even then, I fail to see how "BE A SUBSCRIBER ON THE DATES BELOW TO EARN REWARDS IN-GAME AT LAUNCH*" when early access is listed as one of the rewards is even remotely confusing.

 

Or how "Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!" can be misunderstood to mean subscribing on Oct 19th would mean you get early access. Since it says from X to Y, not before Y.

[Pagy]

Yeah they were, if you bothered to read them.

you're only saying this because you didnt misunderstand it.

Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!

if you can't see how easily this could have been misunderstood, then again, i'll point out all of the threads and confusion in fleet chat.

 

and again, i'm not agreeing with anyone saying they ought to be compensated, lie you said, it's their mistake. they should own it.

Or how "Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!" can be misunderstood to mean subscribing on Oct 19th would mean you get early access. Since it says from X to Y, not before Y.

I believe that's how SoR worked, i could be wrong.

also, i think it's very easy to make the mistake because i and many others did! they used the word 'choose' and 'from' with a time period. they also positioned the early access reward as last in the sequence. it could have been easily misunderstood and obviously was! but again, that's on us, not bw.

[Losar]

If this happened I would quit... why? because I took the time to READ and understand the terms, I earned early access, others didn't and don't deserve a hand out for incompetence.

 

I did read the add, and after reading said add I took it to mean that if I subscribed while I would only be getting the speeder that early access was guaranteed. The wording was vague pure and simple. To me right now this little campaign they put on was nothing but a money grab to stuff their coffers and pad thier subscriber numbers. Whats next be a subscriber for 12 months and get free game updates or items?

[Kryptonomic]

I don't have a stake in this as I have been subbed consistently since launch, but I will say that I see people quoting this from BW:

 

"Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!"

 

Grammatically, that means you can choose to be a subscriber anytime between August 10 and October 19. It does not -- grammatically anyway -- mean be a subscriber starting on August 10 through October 19.

 

That said, I can certainly see how people would interpret this different ways, regardless of strict grammatical rules. And, quite frankly, grammatical parsing is not at all what people should be worried about. That's why what Bioware should have done is simply allow no ambiguity whatsoever. For example:

 

"You must be a subscriber starting on August 10 and remain subscribed through October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Award."

 

Regardless of how obvious or not someone thinks something was, it's always better to be as precise as you can, particularly when ranges are being discussed. Those of us who suffered through marketing classes probably remember the "be unambiguously correct" exercises.

Edited October 21, 2015 by JeffNyman

[danielearley]

A lot of people are upset about not getting into early access, either because of a bug, because their subscription was dropped for a few days since July, or because they misinterpreted subscribing from July to October as subscribe between July to October.

 

I think it'd be generous to give all current subscribers early access. Active subscribers are left with nothing to do because the PvE content has been raised to 65, but they aren't 65 and can't level to 65.

 

If you don't have sympathy for those who weren't subscribed for a while or are in the "learn 2 read" club for those who misinterpreted the early access requirements, that's fair. All I'm asking is for BioWare to throw a bone to a lot of us who made a mistake. Personally, I wouldn't have subscribed until later had I comprehended the requirements correctly.

 

Thanks.

I'm confused, why have you got nothing to do?

 

What PVE content has been raised to level 65?

 

None of my toons are 65 yet, I still have access to everything and more fun things to do now. So can you explain what you do not have access to other than the new story line?

[brutin]

I got early access but I agree it was misleading and not clear and IMO was intentionally so. When you put an asteric and the details in the fine print when the information could have been in the banner, you are trying to be misleading.

 

And it is easy to understand why. If all the pages were clear once Aug 10th passed and people couldn't get into early access, if somebody wasn't already a subscriber they would likely just wait till Oct 27th to subscribe. They wanted to encourage people to still subscribe early and making EA information a bit "murky" in the banners helped accomplish that.

[VanorDM]

you're only saying this because you didnt misunderstand it.

 

I didn't because I read the whole thing, not just a banner, which is intended to catch people's attention. But to do that, it can only be so long.

 

Honestly if someone buys a product, any product based purely on a single banner then they deserve what they get. The information wasn't hidden, it wasn't even hard to find. It wasn't misleading or especially confusing. The only people who seem to not get it, were people who couldn't be bothered to read the 'fine print' which is a completely BS term to use in this case.

 

Because it's not like the terms were hidden on some other page in 4pt font or anything.

 

If this was the first time I've seen something like this, I might agree that BW could of worded things better. But it's not, every time a MMO offers something for people who did X by Y date, you always have people complaining on the forums about how they didn't understand what was required. If this happens every time, no matter who's doing it, no matter how it's worded, it no longer becomes an issue of 'it could be worded better' it's an issue of people not bothering to read the info that's there, and wanting to blame someone for missing out.

[lordgracy]

A lot of people are upset about not getting into early access, either because of a bug, because their subscription was dropped for a few days since July, or because they misinterpreted subscribing from July to October as subscribe between July to October.

 

I think it'd be generous to give all current subscribers early access. Active subscribers are left with nothing to do because the PvE content has been raised to 65, but they aren't 65 and can't level to 65.

 

If you don't have sympathy for those who weren't subscribed for a while or are in the "learn 2 read" club for those who misinterpreted the early access requirements, that's fair. All I'm asking is for BioWare to throw a bone to a lot of us who made a mistake. Personally, I wouldn't have subscribed until later had I comprehended the requirements correctly.

 

Thanks.

Agreed. If you are subbed you should have early access. I think the only reason for them to do this is to ease into the load on the new zones etc? I think they seem to be stable now so let the floodgates open imo. I am subbed but I dont have early access. It's kind of dumb really at this point.

 

edit:: Also I didn't even know about subbing during a certain time to get early access but I subbed last week so I don't fall under the learn2read group. You'd think that since i'm returning to the game after a couple of years that there would be some incentive here. I mean FFS I can't even BUY early access(and I would). BW=stupid.

Edited October 21, 2015 by lordgracy

[VanorDM]

It's kind of dumb really at this point.

 

What's dumb, is to take something away from someone else, just because you couldn't bother to do the same things they did.

 

Early Access isn't a huge deal but it's something special given to people who did what was required. It's not something that should be taken away from them. It's no different than saying people who subscribe today should be able to earn the Founder title.

[danielearley]

I don't have a stake in this as I have been subbed consistently since launch, but I will say that I see people quoting this from BW:

 

"Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!"

 

Grammatically, that means you can choose to be a subscriber anytime between August 10 and October 19. It does not -- grammatically anyway -- mean be a subscriber starting on August 10 through October 19.

 

That said, I can certainly see how people would interpret this different ways, regardless of strict grammatical rules. And, quite frankly, grammatical parsing is not at all what people should be worried about. That's why what Bioware should have done is simply allow no ambiguity whatsoever. For example:

 

"You must be a subscriber starting on August 10 and remain subscribed through October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Award."

 

Regardless of how obvious or not someone thinks something was, it's always better to be as precise as you can, particularly when ranges are being discussed. Those of us who suffered through marketing classes probably remember the "be unambiguously correct" exercises.

 

If I choose to go from London to New York I don't end up in the sea, unless the plane crashes, there is nothing gramatically incorrect, having from in the sentence makes it clear, its between these two dates you must be a subscriber, not somewhere between but from the first date until the last date.

Edited October 21, 2015 by danielearley

[Lufttank]

I am one of those who thought being a subscriber before 19th October was enough to qualify for early access, but it's ok, i wont make a fuss about it. And forget it, we wont get early access. EA is not a company known for genorosity

 

BUT, i dont understand other people who are making a defense against OP's point. What are you trying to achieve? What will you lose if some other people get early access too? Why are you acting like EA's company advocates? This has nothing to do with you, so move along and play your game.

[jupezz]

What's dumb, is to take something away from someone else, just because you couldn't bother to do the same things they did.

 

Early Access isn't a huge deal but it's something special given to people who did what was required. It's not something that should be taken away from them. It's no different than saying people who subscribe today should be able to earn the Founder title.

 

How exactly would EA be taken away from us by letting others join in? And yes, it's completely different from handing out time-conditioned titles for free; in fact, it could hardly be more different.

 

Yes, the terms were perfectly clear if you took the time to read everything and yes, people could and should have read everything, but that doesn't change the fact that the advertising was purposefully vague - back when I first saw it, I knew that there would be A LOT of upset customers at the start of the Early Access.

[cagthehack]

Yes Bioware was very deceptive in the way they represented early access the main page says sub aug 10 thru oct 19th for early access. That leads people to believe sub anytime between those 2 dates you get early access. Then they make seperate page that says you must have all 4 rewards in order to have early access, Why didn't they put that on main page?? Because a lot people that subbed after aug 11 would have unsubbed, $60 for 3 lame rewards is asking a lot if you didn't qualify for early access. Its all very EA-eque.

 

QFT. I fell for this. I subbed Aug 13 after getting an email that I read as "subscribed between aug and oct get early access".

 

Look, I'm just here for story mode really, I don't raid anymore, and pvp sucks *** in this game. So now I have a level 60 mara sitting on his ship waiting. I'm not rolling an alt without the 12x XP cause i refuse to grind out xp. I'm just not doing that anymore.

 

OK sure, I might be the rarity here. I play this game more like a single player MMO. But there are a lot of us here. And **** like this pisses us off.

 

It would've been better if the email said "Subscribed before aug 10 and get early access". But it didn't say that.

 

PS: I'm not looking for any special consideration here. It is what it is. I mean, cool I should've read the fine print. But I changed my subscription to "One time Purchase" and set a filter in my email to trash any mail from this game in the future I don't want to be conned again.

 

. Like I said, I just want the story. But because of this "treatment" there will be no alts. I finish the expac story I move on to FO4 and forget about this game.

Edited October 21, 2015 by cagthehack

[VanorDM]

How exactly would EA be taken away from us by letting others join in?

 

Do you not understand what the word exclusive means?

[LexonLightsaber]

I didn't because I read the whole thing, not just a banner, which is intended to catch people's attention. But to do that, it can only be so long.

 

Honestly if someone buys a product, any product based purely on a single banner then they deserve what they get. The information wasn't hidden, it wasn't even hard to find. It wasn't misleading or especially confusing. The only people who seem to not get it, were people who couldn't be bothered to read the 'fine print' which is a completely BS term to use in this case.

 

Because it's not like the terms were hidden on some other page in 4pt font or anything.

 

If this was the first time I've seen something like this, I might agree that BW could of worded things better. But it's not, every time a MMO offers something for people who did X by Y date, you always have people complaining on the forums about how they didn't understand what was required. If this happens every time, no matter who's doing it, no matter how it's worded, it no longer becomes an issue of 'it could be worded better' it's an issue of people not bothering to read the info that's there, and wanting to blame someone for missing out.

 

What are you suggesting that its okay for bioware to use predatory tactics in marketing a campaign that is less then straightforward, i would think swtor could sell itself, not be required to use cons to sell it, i guess i am in the minority who actually still pays for content straight up, everyone else need to be hoodwinked according to bioware

[VanorDM]

What are you suggesting that its okay for bioware to use predatory tactics in marketing a campaign that is less then straightforward

 

You must be a troll, because no one even remotely honest would claim such a thing as 'predatory tactics'. The terms were extremely clear if anyone bothered to actually read them. The only people at fault here are those who read a single line, interpreted it to mean what they wanted, not what it actually said, and then stopped reading.

[LexonLightsaber]

Do you not understand what the word exclusive means?

 

do you understand what misleading means? If bioware actually spelled out the exclusive rights to early access i would agree with you, but as it stands everyone that subscribed as of october 19th should have access to the early access. technically it still exclusive to subscribers, just not as exclusive as it was, actually it was meant to be even more exclusive, but they themselves chnaged it from july to august, i wonder which one you were? July or August?

[lordgracy]

What's dumb, is to take something away from someone else, just because you couldn't bother to do the same things they did.

 

Early Access isn't a huge deal but it's something special given to people who did what was required. It's not something that should be taken away from them. It's no different than saying people who subscribe today should be able to earn the Founder title.

 

What are they taking away from you? The fact that you are a have and there are have nots? Greedy little person aren't ya. Again I just popped into the see how SWTOR was doing a week ago and decided I wanted to resub and play so there was no way for me to even take advantage of this early access anyway since the time had passed. Its not even about learn2read etc. The whole criteria for early access is just stupid in general. Most games you can preorder or do something to gain this access up to a day or so before it drops. For this game you had to be following the SWTOR news for the last 3 months and be subbed. Not a very strong business model for bringing back potential subs if you ask me. I'm not even really that bothered by it but I just think it isn't too bright on BW's part in how they set this up.

Edited October 21, 2015 by lordgracy

[GripenWard]

I wonder if a user actually hand to land on the page with the T&C prior to subscribing. The defense of this campaign seems to be "the terms were listed on the rewards page", but that supposes that a user HAD to hit that page to subscribe.

 

To the best of my knowledge there was no verbiage in the late campaign emails and launcher media that would lead a customer to believe there were additional T&Cs that needed to be reviewed in order to get Early Access. Couldn't a user bypass the rewards landing page and still subscribe?

 

Would a user have known about the additional T&Cs simply via the email marketing? If a user isn't explicitly directed to a terms and conditions page, or made aware of it's existence in marketing media, can they still be held to those T&Cs?

 

I'm asking because I honestly don't know, but can see situations where a user would bypass the rewards page and simply subscribe based on the marketing materials sent to them - especially if that marketing material does not explicitly state "Terms and Conditions apply".

 

I should add that this is all pretty moot since a lot of Early Access people still don't have it. Those poor souls should get time comp'd since they had to sub for 3 months just to get the privileged.

Edited October 21, 2015 by GripenWard

[LexonLightsaber]

What's dumb, is to take something away from someone else, just because you couldn't bother to do the same things they did.

 

Early Access isn't a huge deal but it's something special given to people who did what was required. It's not something that should be taken away from them. It's no different than saying people who subscribe today should be able to earn the Founder title.

 

founder title is cosmetic, early access isn't. Which leads me to question has a game ever locked out a player base that has payed for the game? Pre-orders get you into early access. I think this might ave been the first time a compnay has locked out paying customers to there game, because essentially it only cost one subscription to buy KOTFE not four as is suggested.

[cagthehack]

You must be a troll, because no one even remotely honest would claim such a thing as 'predatory tactics'. The terms were extremely clear if anyone bothered to actually read them. The only people at fault here are those who read a single line, interpreted it to mean what they wanted, not what it actually said, and then stopped reading.

 

That's crap. Did you get the email? There was no fine print. Just a link after a short marketing blitz about early access and rewards. Are you saying I can't trust EA at all? That I have to read the fine print? Is this what the gaming industry has come too?

 

Why couldn't the email had said "Subscribe BEFORE Aug 10 and get early access". But it didn't say that.

Edited October 21, 2015 by cagthehack