@Bioware, there's still time to remedy Early Access...

[VanorDM]

No, the point of this thread is that the conditions of its exclusiveness were more than just a little vague.

 

No they weren't, not if you bothered to spend a whole 30 seconds reading the page or checking out the terms. If someone misses out on something because they couldn't be bothered to do that little, that's their own fault.

[GripenWard]

You must be a troll, because no one even remotely honest would claim such a thing as 'predatory tactics'. The terms were extremely clear if anyone bothered to actually read them. The only people at fault here are those who read a single line, interpreted it to mean what they wanted, not what it actually said, and then stopped reading.

 

Was a user forced to read them prior to subscribing? Was a user forced to land on the rewards page? If the email/launcher marketing didn't specifically say terms and conditions apply than a user has no reason to believe that there are additional hoops to jump through to get the rewards listed in the emails. In such cases a reasonable person may just access account.swtor.com directly to resub.

 

People can only be bothered to read things when they are made aware of their existence. IE the Terms Archive, TOS, EULA links at the bottom of ever swtor.com page. If specific terms and conditions appear on a skippable page, and their existence isn't stated across all marketing media, how can one possibly say they "should have known they were there", especially when the call to action in the emails/launcher was as vague as "Subscribe from Aug 10th to Oct 19th for Early Access" and, as it would seem, an even more deceitful "Subscribe for Early Access" with no "Terms and conditions apply" attached.

[LexonLightsaber]

I have made the exact same payments as everyone else, but one was a few hours late because I was sleeping off anesthesia. The model opens itself to problems like this.

 

Yes it does, i mean who makes a campaign with so many requirements that are so spread out, not even a giveaway is this complicated and those are free entry.

[VanorDM]

The model opens itself to problems like this.

 

That I will agree with. The model they chose is problematic.

[Thunderstriken]

I do, but apparently you aren't aware that Early Access isn't exclusive content, while something like the Founders title; or pretty much every other KotFE subscriber reward; absolutely is.

You're getting the same content as everyone else, it doesn't matter if you play it now or in a few months, this particular content will stay the same. The same concept doesn't apply to titles or items that can only be obtained during a certain period of time and are completely unavailable afterwards.

 

We're talking about 7-9 hours of story-related gameplay here. Many of us who were eligible for Early Access have already completed the story once, so I miss the point in making everyone else wait a whole week, especially considering all the fuss and disappointment, when 2-3 days would have been more than enough.

 

Personally, I'm over it. I was really excited yesterday, I love expansion launches and the race to level cap. I had a strategy planned out in my head as I eagerly awaited the servers coming back up. Only to find out it'll be a week before I can play, I don't think I'm going to win the race to cap next week. Disheartened I cancelled my sub (which will expire a couple days after launch) and took to the forums. Even if they let all subscribers in early access tonight, it's too late for me to care. I'll probably be back some time, but it'll be awhile.

 

I doubt it was their intention to majorly piss off all the returning subscribers, but this is something they could have fixed yesterday. Upon considering my irrefutable points they should have recognized their extremely erroneous promotion and instantly announced an apology for the confusion and opened early access to all subscribers. That they didn't even apologize upsets me beyond all else, for it would have at least shut up these arm chair scholars calling everyone stupid.

[LexonLightsaber]

five thousand views and over a 100 replies and still no response either way. Maybe at 200 replies and ten thousand views this will get the attention it deserves.

[VanorDM]

Was a user forced to read them prior to subscribing?

 

Why in the world would anyone be forced to do anything? The information is out there, it's your responsibility to actually read it.

 

The information wasn't hidden, it wasn't even hard to find. All you had to do is scroll to the bottom of the page and maybe click on a link. If you can't be bothered to do that much, that's your problem.

[LexonLightsaber]

Personally, I'm over it. I was really excited yesterday, I love expansion launches and the race to level cap. I had a strategy planned out in my head as I eagerly awaited the servers coming back up. Only to find out it'll be a week before I can play, I don't think I'm going to win the race to cap next week. Disheartened I cancelled my sub (which will expire a couple days after launch) and took to the forums. Even if they let all subscribers in early access tonight, it's too late for me to care. I'll probably be back some time, but it'll be awhile.

 

I doubt it was their intention to majorly piss off all the returning subscribers, but this is something they could have fixed yesterday. Upon considering my irrefutable points they should have recognized their extremely erroneous promotion and instantly announced an apology for the confusion and opened early access to all subscribers. That they didn't even apologize upsets me beyond all else, for it would have at least shut up these arm chair scholars calling everyone stupid.

 

I was also so excited yesterday, as excited as I was when i first got the fame at launch, sad how that excitement turned to dismay when i realized what had happened, so much for care free gaming.

[PavSalco]

So you accept that bioware is a telemarketer or worse?

 

No because I never assumed that I know everything about the early access just by reading one sentence in their FB/Twitter post and I had the time to visit the main expansion site which was always linked in their FB/Twitter posts.

[jupezz]

No they weren't, not if you bothered to spend a whole 30 seconds reading the page or checking out the terms. If someone misses out on something because they couldn't be bothered to do that little, that's their own fault.

And as I already mentioned, I don't even disagree with that.

Still, good and distinct marketing wouldn't make it necessary to read the whole page; both the standard advertising banners and the e-mails that were sent out last week were purposefully vague and that is as much of a fact as having to read the "Terms and Conditions" to fully understand the whole package.

[LexonLightsaber]

No because I never assumed that I know everything about the early access just by reading one sentence in their FB/Twitter post and I had the time to visit the main expansion site which was always linked in their FB/Twitter posts.

 

But why would anyone think otherwise unless we are assuming bioware is bad? are we? is bioware a bad company? should we be worried about Mass Effect? Should we be worried about anything EA/STAR WARS related? should we? do we have to question everything this company markets because they are trying to get extra money using * to mislead?

[Jadescythe]

But why would anyone think otherwise unless we are assuming bioware is bad? are we? is bioware a bad company? should we be worried about Mass Effect? Should we be worried about anything EA/STAR WARS related? should we? do we have to question everything this company markets because they are trying to get extra money using * to mislead?

 

Should you read the details of everything with an asterisk? Yes, yes you should.

[Thunderstriken]

No they weren't, not if you bothered to spend a whole 30 seconds reading the page or checking out the terms. If someone misses out on something because they couldn't be bothered to do that little, that's their own fault.

 

The problem isn't that people didn't read, the problem was the the wording and layout they chose to promote it.

 

The placement of early access was out of chronological order in the timeline. That's a HUGE mistake in and of itself. The whole point of a timeline is to be in chronological order.

 

Using the present tense verb choose unquestionably implies a choice can still be made.

 

The wording is definitely open to two different interpretations, however when considering the points above there is really only one logical conclusion to be made.

 

"Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!"

 

As I said earlier, sub in a Snickers bar and you get...

 

"Choose to buy a Snickers bar from August 10 to October 19 to be entered in the million dollar sweepstakes!"

 

No one would logically assume you had to buy a Snickers bar every day.

[ImmortalLowlife]

A lot of people are upset about not getting into early access, either because of a bug, because their subscription was dropped for a few days since July, or because they misinterpreted subscribing from July to October as subscribe between July to October.

 

I think it'd be generous to give all current subscribers early access. Active subscribers are left with nothing to do because the PvE content has been raised to 65, but they aren't 65 and can't level to 65.

 

If you don't have sympathy for those who weren't subscribed for a while or are in the "learn 2 read" club for those who misinterpreted the early access requirements, that's fair. All I'm asking is for BioWare to throw a bone to a lot of us who made a mistake. Personally, I wouldn't have subscribed until later had I comprehended the requirements correctly.

 

Thanks.

 

Sorry...but I have NO SYMPATHY for someone who's only excuse is "I misread it". There have been countless threads explaining how to get early access. There've been streams on twitch & YouTube videos (of those same streams) where the requirements were explained. A police officer will tell you "ignorance of the law is no excuse'. The requirements have been listed and explained in several places. It's your own fault if you failed to meet the qualifications.

 

No thrown bones needed....

Edited October 21, 2015 by ImmortalLowlife

[cagthehack]

Why in the world would anyone be forced to do anything? The information is out there, it's your responsibility to actually read it.

 

The information wasn't hidden, it wasn't even hard to find. All you had to do is scroll to the bottom of the page and maybe click on a link. If you can't be bothered to do that much, that's your problem.

 

Actually the link from the email went straight to the subscription page. There were no terms and conditions on the email blast. I've just looked at it again (dug it up in trash). There is a link for more information and details on the bottom.

 

So now you are telling me I should've ignored the big "Subscribe Now" button in the mail and browsed to the website looking for the fine print of the offer? That's clearly NOT what EA wanted. Else they would've put a link in place of the subscribed button. Or lay out the details in the email. But they didn't.

 

So I clicked the big button and resubbed. in fact, I even had to go through the trouble of resetting my password - was so long I forgot it. And even through that whole process I saw nothing about the offer. All i saw was Subscribe Now.

 

So fine, I got ****ed. Again. By EA. I doubt that was their intention. You know, to piss off returning subscribers?

Edited October 21, 2015 by cagthehack

[Pearlie]

Agree.

 

This game doesn't exactly have an abundance of subs, so giving early access to everyone would be a good PR move, particularly since the wording about the prerequisites (though I didn't misinterpret) could have been construed as intentionally ambiguous.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Pearlie

[LordByrondathird]

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards

 

Right there, plain as day. Sub from Aug. 10 - Oct. 19 and get early access. Been there for some time.

 

For people who were, for one reason or another, accidentally unsubbed during this time, that's a different (and crappy) situation. On the bright side (dim bright?) there's only six days left before the rest of us can get access, during that time (hopefully) Bioware can fix some of the bugs that've since cropped up.

 

Not ideal, but six days is still better than waiting, say, a month or more. My work/class schedule means I likely wont be playing it right away. Midterms are coming...

[Bakakiba]

The problem isn't that people didn't read, the problem was the the wording and layout they chose to promote it.

 

The placement of early access was out of chronological order in the timeline. That's a HUGE mistake in and of itself. The whole point of a timeline is to be in chronological order.

 

Using the present tense verb choose unquestionably implies a choice can still be made.

 

The wording is definitely open to two different interpretations, however when considering the points above there is really only one logical conclusion to be made.

 

"Choose to be a Subscriber from August 10 to October 19 to receive the Early Access Bonus Reward!"

 

As I said earlier, sub in a Snickers bar and you get...

 

"Choose to buy a Snickers bar from August 10 to October 19 to be entered in the million dollar sweepstakes!*"

 

No one would logically assume you had to buy a Snickers bar every day.

 

* No purchase necessary

[DeralElfor]

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards

 

Right there, plain as day. Sub from Aug. 10 - Oct. 19 and get early access. Been there for some time.

 

For people who were, for one reason or another, accidentally unsubbed during this time, that's a different (and crappy) situation. On the bright side (dim bright?) there's only six days left before the rest of us can get access, during that time (hopefully) Bioware can fix some of the bugs that've since cropped up.

 

Not ideal, but six days is still better than waiting, say, a month or more. My work/class schedule means I likely wont be playing it right away. Midterms are coming...

 

I remember I was subscribed the ENTIRE time too. Still didn't get early access or the rewards.

[PavSalco]

But why would anyone think otherwise unless we are assuming bioware is bad? are we? is bioware a bad company? should we be worried about Mass Effect? Should we be worried about anything EA/STAR WARS related? should we? do we have to question everything this company markets because they are trying to get extra money using * to mislead?

 

Now you are not even defending your original claim about the shady marketing but going into the nonsense offtopic that drifts away from the point of the discussion.

 

I'm not a native speaker but even I know what the words "choose to be a subscriber FROM a TO z" mean. Nothing shady about that.

 

CHOOSE TO BE means BE A SUB/DECIDE TO BE A SUB. The question is when? Well, the question is simple "FROM A TO Z" which means STARTING FROM ONE POINT AND ENDING AT THE SECOND POINT.

 

So the problem is that you misunderstood the sentence and assumed something erroneously. Also, it's not a matter of worrying about Bioware and their plans. Bioware is a company. Like in ever other contacts with other companies you don't sign up something after reading the first line, do you? It's about a basic reasoning.

 

If you have the Internet from the same Internet provider for 10 years, you don't sign a new contract right after reading the monthly cost, do you? When it comes to your wallet and money, you never should assume but you should KNOW what you sign. You didn't know. You just assumed. You were wrong. End of the story.

[Thunderstriken]

Now you are not even defending your original claim about the shady marketing but going into the nonsense offtopic that drifts away from the point of the discussion.

 

I'm not a native speaker but even I know what the words "choose to be a subscriber FROM a TO z" mean. Nothing shady about that.

 

CHOOSE TO BE means BE A SUB/DECIDE TO BE A SUB. The question is when? Well, the question is simple "FROM A TO Z" which means STARTING FROM ONE POINT AND ENDING AT THE SECOND POINT.

 

So the problem is that you misunderstood the sentence and assumed something erroneously. Also, it's not a matter of worrying about Bioware and their plans. Bioware is a company. Like in ever other contacts with other companies you don't sign up something after reading the first line, do you? It's about a basic reasoning.

 

If you have the Internet from the same Internet provider for 10 years, you don't sign a new contract right after reading the monthly cost, do you? When it comes to your wallet and money, you never should assume but you should KNOW what you sign. You didn't know. You just assumed. You were wrong. End of the story.

 

Actually, perhaps because you are admittedly not a native English speaker, you are just plain wrong in your analysis. In fact, because of the use of a present tense verb choose, although the wording is ambiguous and can be logically interpreted different ways, the tense of the verb indicates that the only logical conclusion is that if a player chooses to become a subscriber during the time frame of Aug 10 to Sep 19 then they will receive early access.

[VanorDM]

So now you are telling me I should've ignored the big "Subscribe Now" button in the mail and browsed to the website looking for the fine print of the offer?

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Yes EA wanted you to subscribe, and they wanted you to subscribe right now. Why in the world is this a shock to anyone? I mean are you honestly surprised that a company wants you to buy their product and do so right now.

 

Anyone who got that email and clicked subscribe now without taking a full minute to look more deeply into it, gets exactly what they have coming to them.

 

But why would anyone think otherwise unless we are assuming bioware is bad?

 

Because I'm not 12, and know that advertising designed to get me to buy a product. It has nothing to with Bioware being bad, or EA being shady. Everyone who's selling something will do the same thing. They will word things or do things in such a way as to get you to buy what they're selling.

 

There's a reason why caveat emptor is latin... Because this has been true since latin was a spoken language.

[VanorDM]

the tense of the verb indicates that the only logical conclusion is that if a player chooses to become a subscriber during the time frame of Aug 10 to Sep 19 then they will receive early access.

 

That is not the only logical conclusion, in fact it's not a logical conclusion at all.

 

If someone says you need to do something from X to Y, then the logical assumption is that whatever it is, needs to be done from X to Y, not at any point between X and Y.

[LexonLightsaber]

Now you are not even defending your original claim about the shady marketing but going into the nonsense offtopic that drifts away from the point of the discussion.

 

I'm not a native speaker but even I know what the words "choose to be a subscriber FROM a TO z" mean. Nothing shady about that.

 

CHOOSE TO BE means BE A SUB/DECIDE TO BE A SUB. The question is when? Well, the question is simple "FROM A TO Z" which means STARTING FROM ONE POINT AND ENDING AT THE SECOND POINT.

 

So the problem is that you misunderstood the sentence and assumed something erroneously. Also, it's not a matter of worrying about Bioware and their plans. Bioware is a company. Like in ever other contacts with other companies you don't sign up something after reading the first line, do you? It's about a basic reasoning.

 

If you have the Internet from the same Internet provider for 10 years, you don't sign a new contract right after reading the monthly cost, do you? When it comes to your wallet and money, you never should assume but you should KNOW what you sign. You didn't know. You just assumed. You were wrong. End of the story.

 

If the message was so clear from the banner then why include: To qualify for the Early Access Bonus, you must have qualified for each of the four rewards by being a subscriber on each of the 4 listed reward dates in the disclaimer. I am not the only one that misunderstood, and even those that say they did not misunderstood actually did untill they read the disclaimer.

[VanorDM]

If the message was so clear from the banner then why include:

 

Because they have to spell it out or else have possible false advertising issues. They also did it, to make sure it's crystal clear to people who bother to read what's going on.

 

Again, if you can't be bothered to do the most basic research into an offer, especially one with a * next to it, then you have only yourself to blame when it's not what you thought it may be.