Darth Nox vs Hero of tython

[DudeinFlames]

 

 

No, Thanaton uses a ritual, explicitly identified as such. And the Inquisitor needa to learn a ritual to be able to defend against it.

 

And ... it's not like there are no examples of ritual attacks or techniques that characters have no defense against - when plot demands it there's all kinds of incapacitating, draining, stunning, life stealing, deadly, eic .... force rituals that our plot characters, friend and foe alike, have no defense against. And then they usually learn something to be better able to face that foe in a future confrontation.

You don't need to know a specific ritual to defend against it. To the point, why is Nox, instead of learning this ritual, going out to find more ghosts? The answer is, Nox was not powerful enough at the time of Act II and thus sought to augment their power. It's absolute nonsense to think s/he lost because she didn't know the ritual Thanaton used.

No, actually it is not. Elsewhere the point that with midi-chlorians count a given for any force user, and thus connection to the Force a constant, any increase in power was due to knowledge, experience and training. Which seems rather plausible, given that both Jedi and Sith train, for many years. If what yo say were true, not of that would be necessary

That's not what it would mean at all. The fact that one can deepen their knowledge and gain more power is one thing. The idea that because Thanaton has been doing this for so much longer that that is why he has the edge is false. It was not his experience, but him being more powerful. Again I'd like to sight that almost every Sith in this game has been doing this since the PCs were infants. That has never stopped them from being cut down like grass before. Experience can only take you so far.

Off course, it's called PLOT. Those wins are necessary to advance the story, at the same time the confrontations are supposed to be challenges, feats of awesomeness that fit with that specific type of story.

That is not an argument. The writer may have wanted the Hero to win, but "teh plotz" don't actually exist in universe. Thus a logical argument must exist to justify it. The plot demands Anakin Skywalker be one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. The plot is not why Anakin Skywalker is one of the most powerful Jedi of all time.

Pointless statement, they're all dead, it's impossible to prove either way. All we know is that Khem suddenly stops complaining about his fate and being bound to Imperius.

Compare feats, or at least alleged feats. They don't match up at all. Even if you wanted to claim that it is an era bias, Khem was actually there and he relays what happened. Nox, and pretty much anyone in this game bar Vitiate or Revan, are not comparable as of this time. Whether they become comparable is another matter. KotFE hasn't happened yet.

Bah, I suppose you've been missing the last couple of posts about the crap that is in Legends. Basically you can tell how bad a writer is by the size of the superpowers he uses in his plot. Anyway, all those powers, no matter how ludicrous, were in place because of the requirements of the plot they were used in. You can not compare them across different stories, making These kind of x-vs-y debates are pointless, on top of being childish.

That's a pretty weak retort. Saying, "Because it's impressive it must not have actually happened like that, the plot demanded it, or the writer is terrible, isn't an argument. It's a dodge. And, as I have said already, the plot may demand that something be a certain way, but the plot is never WHY something is a certain way. The plot isn't why Nox defeated Thanaton or utterly crushed him; it only demands that Nox live and defeats Thanaton.

Edited October 14, 2015 by DudeinFlames

[nimmerstil]

You don't need to know a specific ritual to defend against it.

No, you need to know, or learn, the defense. There would be no point in Thanaton learning all thse dark rituals if everyone intuitively knew how to defend against them. Kallig's ghost himself warns the Inquisitor to not walk into the tombs of still inhabitant Sith Lords unprepared. Preparation is key in the defense against these ghosts. He then directs the heir to learn a ritual to 'eat' ghosts, turn them from a threat into a tool.

 

That's not what it would mean at all. The fact that one can deepen their knowledge and gain more power is one thing. The idea that because Thanaton has been doing this for so much longer that that is why he has the edge is false.

It's a common factor in competition, given two equally talented 'players', the one with the most experience is likely to win. You can have genius level intelligence but without training and experience even a mediocre chess player, say at average club level, will beat you with ease, on knowledge and experience. Thanaton may have been like a Master or a Grandmaster, we can't really tell from the game because the difference was to great.

 

It was not his experience, but him being more powerful. Again I'd like to sight that almost every Sith in this game has been doing this since the PCs were infants. That has never stopped them from being cut down like grass before. Experience can only take you so far.

Isn't that a testament to the raw potential of the (inexperienced) Inquisitor? The Inquisitor has plenty of raw power, yes, they've bun running on it, without the benefit of the training that Sith and Jedi receive from their early childhood. But Thanaton not only has the benefit of a live long of experience and knowledge of (ancient) rituals, he also has a lot of the same force power, most likely augmented similar to the Inquisitor, after all, if he directs Kallig into Andru's tomb, he likely knows more about it.

 

That is not an argument. The writer may have wanted the Hero to win, but "teh plotz" don't actually exist in universe.

What? Exist? It is all plot related, every single 'power' exists to serve the plot. Which makes these powers so incomparable.

 

Thus a logical argument must exist to justify it.

Yeah, the logical argument is that the kind of story demands that the protagonist, Knight or Inquisitor (or...) face all kinds of challenging foes and obstacles, that they must defeat and overcome.

 

The plot demands Anakin Skywalker be one of the most powerful Jedi of all time. The plot is not why Anakin Skywalker is one of the most powerful Jedi of all time.

Whatever the plot demands will come to be; he plot is exactly why he is one of the most powerful Jedi of all time, the whole prophecy and balance thing wouldn't work if Anaking was just an average joe force user.

 

Compare feats, or at least alleged feats. They don't match up at all.

Indeed, they don't match up, they can't be compared. They were introduced to fit the story they were used in. Nothing more.

 

Nox, and pretty much anyone in this game bar Vitiate or Revan, are not comparable as of this time. Whether they become comparable is another matter.

That is what I am saying, you can't compare any of these feats, so basing a comparison between characters on them is pointless.

 

KotFE hasn't happened yet.

I already know that at it's end, every PC will have accomplished the same. That sorta makes them all equally capable, or powerful, doesn't it?

 

That's a pretty weak retort.

You can work 'logically' with the kind of things they write, you can not measure, or compare these feats across different works. Trying to connect them and construct a consistent, if magical, model of this universe is an exercise in futility, and even if you succeed now, there's bound to be something written to contradict it tomorrow.

 

And, as I have said already, the plot may demand that something be a certain way, but the plot is never WHY something is a certain way.

Off course it is, Imperius defeats Thanaton for the same reason the Hero of Tython defeats the Emperor; because in the end, the PC always wins - and through them so does the player.

[MWidowmaker]

who would win between Hero of Tython and the Barsen'thor? same question its all relative to how you played your story. my Sorc is more powerful than my Shadow, Sentinel, or Marauder

[Xilizhra]

"Because the plot demands it" is actually sometimes a legitimate statement, as the Force itself sometimes intervenes in mortal affairs; for instance, when Darth Plagueis tried to create life, the Force conceived Anakin as retaliation. And it seems rather heavily implied that the Force will sometimes aid someone if it really wants this certain thing to happen, so it's quite possible that the Hero of Tython's specific destiny enabled them to defeat the Voice where another of their power level might not have.

 

If destiny doesn't have a stake in a fight between the Hero of Tython and the Forcewalker, I would say they're probably relatively evenly matched.

[Juromaro]

Melee combat: Act 3 HoT

Force combat: Act 3 Darth Nox

 

 

As for anything beyond Act 3 it's up in the wind as we don't know how much more training big baddies HoT killed in that time and we don't know how many more Rituals and Knowledge Nox gained in that time.

 

 

HoT was trained from childhood to be what he/she is now. Nox survived being a slave/possible alien slave in a society that kills slaves daily for "sport", and quickly rose to being a member of some of the strongest most powerful Sith in the galaxy, regardless how he/she got there, she/he is there.

 

Nox would win with no doubt in my mind, simply because of her/his desire to survive, and sorry the will to live is stronger than any martial skills you may or may not possess as the HoT.

[wrathtitan]

Going to say Nox, and this is why:

 

When darth thanathon tries to kill Nox at the end of chapter 1 he doesent understand the way the ghosts are bound to Nox, zash tells you this later. So in a way, Nox cant actually die. Even Thanathon who knows alot about rituals, ancient sith techniques, even sith Alchemy, could not understand it. Maybe the consular, with her deep understanding of the force ways and her deep connection to the lightside could sever the ghosts from Nox. But the HoT? No, i dont think so.

 

Besides that, Nox is extremely powerfull in the force, not just naturally gifted, but also enhanced 5 times by the ghosts.

Besides that he has had his body rebuild to molecolair level, his mind restored. (Who knows what that did to his force withstanding abilities) and was enhanced by the machines on Rishi, I think that Nox is the most powerfull character ingame, and unless, like i said, someone knows a way to sever the ghosts from him, they will lose.

[Makrogai]

Well this is depends very

 

Even with dual bladed light saber Hero of Tython is just a better Light saber fighter afterall but Nox has better force powers. With ghosts It's an even match. Nox must be able to kill The hero quickly before he enters melee combat or when in melee combat or Hero is going to win easy.