Star Guard alternative build

[Greezt]

I came across Verain's Whiskey TZ-24 Gladiator build in the guide.

I know it was meant as a joke, and not a serious ship, but it got me thinking; why not build a star Guard specifically tailored to kill scouts in dogfights?

[Greezt]

Since the star Guard is my only currently mastered ship, and I have most components already, I build the following ship:

 

Primary weapon: Ion cannon (increased range, drains 4 weapon power)

Primary weapon (2): Rapid fire laser cannon (improved firing arc, increased hull damage)

Secondary weapon: Cluster missiles (Ammunition increase, Plasma warheads)

Shields: Quick-charge shields (60% increased regeneration)

Engines: Retro thrusters (increased turning rate)

Capacitor: Range capacitor

Magazine: Regeneration magazine

Reactor: Large reactor

Thrusters: Turning thrusters

 

I don't know if this ship could be useful in a serious game (probably not), but I would like to know if it could take a scout in a 1v1 dogfight.

[RickDagles]

It only works if you are a better pilot than the scout. But any top pilots will immediately tear you apart.

 

 

I found directional shields is a lot better than QCS. Also, I would put range on your cluster missile. And RFL are garbage. I'd pick HLC so that you can snipe a few shots at any incoming/outcoming scouts as well as to finish off any targets with low hull and high shields. The bonus is that you'll actually be able to kill turrets and bombers.

[Greezt]

It only works if you are a better pilot than the scout. But any top pilots will immediately tear you apart.

 

 

I found directional shields is a lot better than QCS. Also, I would put range on your cluster missile. And RFL are garbage. I'd pick HLC so that you can snipe a few shots at any incoming/outcoming scouts as well as to finish off any targets with low hull and high shields. The bonus is that you'll actually be able to kill turrets and bombers.

 

But the whole point of this ship is to see if a fighter can beat a scout in a dogfight.

Anyway, I forgot to mention some important details, so here goes:

 

Copilot: Akavi Spaar (Wingman)

Offensive: Qyzen Fess (Improved kill zone, Pinpointing}

Defensive: Doc (Power to shields, Quick recharge)

Tactical: Akavi Spaar (Comm boost, Silent running)

Engineering: Yuun/C2-N2 (Efficient fire, Efficient maneuvers/ Power to engine, Efficient maneuvers)

 

I was thinking that with this ship you would dogfight with power to shields, not blasters. That way, you get an extra boost to your shield recharge during the dogfight. Since after you strip the shields off the scout very fast and swap to lasers, power consumption shouldn't be an issue (I think). That's why I'm not sure whether Yuun is better than C2. Also, the bonus DPs shouldn't be an issue, since a scout has so little hull to begin with.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Verain]

I came across Verain's Whiskey TZ-24 Gladiator build in the guide.

I know it was meant as a joke, and not a serious ship, but it got me thinking; why not build a star Guard specifically tailored to kill scouts in dogfights?

 

The answer is, the scout runs away.

 

I don't mean that you'll always have an upper hand- in fact, you usually won't, because you can't out turn the scout. But when you DO outfly the scout, bamf, he's gone. He can just leave the engagement, and you can't finish the job. So you play a game that is "heads the scout wins, tails the scout doesn't lose".

 

Ok, so it can't really solo the scout- can it peel? Well, any ship with clusters can peel a scout, but sometimes not fast enough. At that point, you're basically doing the scout job, but are much worse at it.

 

 

 

The Whiskey Gladiator is a joke build and I deliver it as such, but I have legitimately played about a hundred games on it. It's absolutely fun. The fun comes from the technical moments when you get to "go off", especially with ion cannon. The double turning makes you able to land shots you otherwise would not have, and the GSF mechanics seem built to play with rapid fire laser in that way (which is part of why my rant on RFL has such invective- even with a situation where it should be something useful, it is very far from that).

 

 

Anyway, here's how a scout battle goes- when you engage the scout, you can usually get some or all the shield gone, but that's often it. The scout has to either engage you in a turn fight, hide LOS, disengage immediately, or boost out past your cluster range and turn around to joust. You don't get to pick which one happens, and if the scout is trying to turn fight you will want to be near something to "scrape him off" you, such as any object that his superior turning radius can't be used freely on. You will absolutely land some shots on him, and you are playing a heavy game of shield management here- you'll often press your instant regen the moment you take shield damage, and then you'll be using suppression or something to minimize his BLCs. When he's under your lasers, you are fighting to have the correct laser up. If you outfly him, you will begin to win, and he will leave the area unless he doesn't understand what's going on. Instead, if he jousts, you will want to make user of your shield active, engine active, copilot ability, and of course, clusters and ion cannon to deal hull damage, but also to get out from under his center. Your whole goal is to not take hull damage, and your secondary objective is to deal some hull damage.

 

But I really want to stress- against a pilot of similar skill, you won't win. You'll often lose. Against a bad pilot or one who has just blown everything and landed 6k away, you can come in with a ton of ion cannon and cluster dps, with RFLs landing a few shots to hull that are helpful.

 

 

 

To reiterate:

 

> The scout can leave when he wants.

> The scout has much higher burst than you.

> The scout has cooldowns you have to time, and they all matter.

> The scout can win a turn fight most of the time.

> The scout can win a joust, so you have to use cooldowns to pace the joust such that your greater shields can help. You will still lose a straight joust unless the scout is new.

> You can't run across the map very well.

> Rapid Fire Lasers are the WORST weapon for attacking a scout, because they combine terrible accuracy with lack of upfront damage. Pretend you need to deal 10 damage to win a fight, and your choices are a weapon that starts dealing 4 damage and then deals 2 dps, or a weapon that starts dealing 1 damage and then deals 2 dps. They are on the build because you frequently find yourself too close for any other gun to be able to deal hull damage at all to the scout, but I don't feel they are really optimal even then.

[Verain]

I was thinking that with this ship you would dogfight with power to shields, not blasters.

 

Normal rule is: You can be resting with power to shields, but the moment you have a chance to have your blasters on a target, you switch to F1 as part of that. Basically, if it helps absorb the first hit, great, if not, whatever. You really need all the damage.

 

But when you have ion cannon versus a scout: You really can take a couple shots with F2 or F3 on, but be sure to be in F1 when you are shooting rapid fire lasers. Mostly you will alternate between F1 and F3, and F2 is reserved for if you run LOS of someone. The F2 can get your shields back quickly when you haven't been under fire.

 

This ship requires MORE power management than other ships, not less. You definitely should never be sitting in F2, for real. The only difference is that F2 actually has some rare use in combat when you are running quick charge shields.

[Greezt]

Damn... I really want to have a useful strike fighter, but it seems impossible.

[JediBoadicea]

Hi Greezt! All right, I know I will be out-mathed by those who have spent more time on the math, but I want to offer up a Strike build I've had a lot of fun dogfighting with.

 

I should preface this with a few points:

1. You seem to be arguing for a baseline of comparable skill levels between yourself and your target, so my assertion that this can be a useful build is partly based on that (although most of the time you're going to be facing an imbalance one way or another).

2. While I think Strikes are a lot more useful than "the common consensus" seems to, I must admit that if the team's winning prospects appear in serious jeopardy I will generally not launch a Strike fighter.

3. The above #2 point being said, even in relatively even matches I've actually had very decent success dogfighting in the below build.

 

Star Guard

Primary 1: Ion Cannon (Drain Engine Power/Drain Shield Power)

Primary 2: Quad Lasers (Crit Chance/Hull Damage)

Secondary: Concussion Missiles (Range/Ignore Armor)

Shields: Directional (Reduced Delay)

Engines: Koiogran Turn (Turning Rate)

Capacitor: Range

Magazine: Regeneration

Reactor: Large

Thrusters: Regeneration

 

CoPilot: Akaavi - Wingman (Accuracy +20% for 20 seconds)

Offensive: Qyzen (Firing Arc +2 degrees/Accuracy 6%)

Defensive: Nadia (Shield Pool +10%/Evasion 5%)

Tactical: Akaavi (Communication boost/Sensor Dampening)

Engineering: Yuun (Blaster cost -13%/Engine cost -13%) or C2-N2 (Engine pool +10%/Engine cost -13%)

 

In my experience, I've found that this build is pretty effective against most ships (even bombers), and a decent dogfighter. But even in this build, I would argue that it is probably weakest against scouts, which are the ship you are most wanting to pit it against. That being said, I've found it can still be useful against scouts in the following scenarios, and with the following tricks:

 

You need to initiate the dogfight. If the scout hits you first or gets you unawares, you are probably in serious trouble and will never be able to turn the situation around to get the upper hand. But if you can pick a target who is unaware of you or otherwise engaged (always ideal anyway), then this build gives you an advantage of range - hence my choice of Range capacitors and improved range on the Concussion missiles. If you unload on them with Ions while simultaneously locking your Concussion, and you can both land those Ion shots (so this is very dependent on your aiming skills) and also land that Concussion missile, most likely that Scout is simply dead. Whenever I've been able to land this combo (Ion barrage + Concussion) I have found it is a one-two kill more than 50% of the time on any ship, provided they are not at 100% health & shields (although sometimes even then, with a Concussion crit). I've even had good success taking down bombers this way, although again, not if they're at 100%.

 

Your challenge with scouts in particular is that they will very likely break that Concussion lock, which is the key to victory. To avoid this, I actually prefer to get into a joust - and that's where the Directional Shields come in. If you can get a scout into a game of chicken with your shields forward, and you have been locking that Concussion the entire time, then very often you will find that a Scout pilot will hit its DF or maneuver too late to avoid eating that Concussion missile, provided you have been closing the distance gap during the joust so that you launch the missile at point blank.

 

If you can't get the Scout into a joust as per above, then this is where/why I prefer Quads to HLC. Once the Scout has you in a dogfight, you cannot afford to be caught in a turning battle (because you will lose, even with the turning thrusters upgrade). I will often blow a K-Turn (or other engine maneuver of your choice) just to break the turning fight a little bit and open up some more range for you to start using Quads. With Directional Shields, even set to default (which you absolutely want to do as soon as you are out of jousting mode), you can eat a whole lot of Cluster missiles so I don't worry as much about blowing that missile break. If you have managed to land your previous Ion shots, then the Scout should be very vulnerable and some close-fighting Quads shots might finish them off.

 

Main points to be aware of and manage are:

• Engine power - As with all strikes, you are going to be starved for it. Battlefield awareness is key. Pick your targets carefully and position yourself well to minimize your need to boost.
  
• Range - Good range awareness and management are key to success. That's true for all ships, but especially so for this Starguard build. Knowing when to start Ion barrage, knowing when to break off, calculating missile locks, etc
  
• Directional Shields - You have to get the hang of these, and that can take some time and learning. But they are key to your survivability and efficacy in this build, as they are what will allow you to hold up under Scout BLC volleys.
  
• Concussion Missiles - This build only really comes into its own once Concussions are fully upgraded (for the final ignore armor tier). It's still viable at only the second upgrade (reduced lockon time), but until the final tier you are never going to manage any of those one-two kill combos with an Ion barrage.
  

 

If you're looking to see how this build holds up, here are some scoreboards in which I am flying as Derrad, and I left the chat log up so you can see the Starguard is the only thing I flew. I usually hesitate to share scoreboards, because I strongly feel they don't really provide an accurate picture of player contribution in a match and I'm leery of participating in prestige races. However, since Strikes get a lot of flak, I thought it would be good to show proof that they can still be viable. While none of these matches were nail-bitingly close or anything like that, none were blowouts and all had some decent opposition.

 

Starguard TDM 1

Starguard TDM 2

Starguard TDM 3

Edited October 8, 2015 by JediBoadicea

[tunewalker]

Normal rule is: You can be resting with power to shields, but the moment you have a chance to have your blasters on a target, you switch to F1 as part of that. Basically, if it helps absorb the first hit, great, if not, whatever. You really need all the damage.

 

But when you have ion cannon versus a scout: You really can take a couple shots with F2 or F3 on, but be sure to be in F1 when you are shooting rapid fire lasers. Mostly you will alternate between F1 and F3, and F2 is reserved for if you run LOS of someone. The F2 can get your shields back quickly when you haven't been under fire.

 

This ship requires MORE power management than other ships, not less. You definitely should never be sitting in F2, for real. The only difference is that F2 actually has some rare use in combat when you are running quick charge shields.

Dang Verain just getting to all the good tips lol... but ya F2 is good for taking 1 or 2 extra hits while draining shields with Ion, then swap to F1 cus damage needed, that also means that you can SLIGHTLY delay the on use ability since basically having F2 up is like having that on use at the start so its almost a double on use which sounds cool, but is surprisingly LAWLS for how little damage it actually absorbs....

[Drakkolich]

Damn... I really want to have a useful strike fighter, but it seems impossible.

 

We do too ...

[Greezt]

Dang Verain just getting to all the good tips lol... but ya F2 is good for taking 1 or 2 extra hits while draining shields with Ion, then swap to F1 cus damage needed, that also means that you can SLIGHTLY delay the on use ability since basically having F2 up is like having that on use at the start so its almost a double on use which sounds cool, but is surprisingly LAWLS for how little damage it actually absorbs....

 

I think that with a low drain gun it might be worth fighting with F2 (in this specific build). I figured that with power to shields and using quick charge off CD, I could get to ~175 shield regen rate... However, verain really hit the points home, and I guess my ship's going in the scrap pile

[SWCNT]

I used to fly the TZ-24 a lot against scouts and I would not recommend RFL with Ions. HLC and wingman are the keys to beating a scout, RFL is kinda pointless, but I would use it at very close range, it's not as bad as everyone seems to think. My build is

HLC (4 left, 5 left)

RFL (4 right, 5 right)

cluster (4 left, 5 right)

retro (left)

directional (right)

large reactor

regen thrusters

range cap

regen mag

 

The control of retro and wingman are very important, these they are basically the only trump cards you have. Surviving against scouts is a lot about position and situational awareness, you can't straight joust them like if you're flying a scout. Nor do you want to get into a turning war because nothing beats BLC in a close range fight. Trying to make a strike do that won't work. I would usually watch a scout till they are have burned enough of their engines that engaging them is more favorable. A great way is to constantly missile lock on them and force engine use. A lot of times I won't even shoot the scout when doing this so I don't waste weapon energy. You don't want the scout to suddenly turn on you and then you have no weapon power for an engagement . Also, HLC have heavy weapon tracking penalties, so most off center shots aren't worth it. When the scout is around 6900 meters away, pop wingman and hit them at max range (6900 m), then most scouts will joust you. When you get to 3000 meters you retro and keep shooting. Power should be to F1, and shields should be forward. In the case of the scout using pods, you need to be careful and you should always be ready to bail quickly by boosting either through or at an angle away from the target. My best piece of advice is to learn the limits of a strike and don't try to make it do things it wasn't designed to do. I'll be streaming tonight for the shadowlands event and will mostly be flying strikes if you're interesting in watching. I'll make a separate post about the stream since it's for an event, but the link is in my signature.

[Archonitek]

I think that with a low drain gun it might be worth fighting with F2 (in this specific build). I figured that with power to shields and using quick charge off CD, I could get to ~175 shield regen rate... However, verain really hit the points home, and I guess my ship's going in the scrap pile

 

Remember that being on F1 also increases damage per shot with your lasers, so you do lose some dps on your rfl's if you stay on F2

[ALaggyGrunt]

It's really powerful if the scout isn't expecting it. I took it for a spin on TEH once and really messed up the scouts there. A couple months later, they didn't fall for it.

[Verain]

I don't want to discourage anyone from playing deviant or fun builds. But the general tone is, "is this good", and it isn't. There's no real way to spec anything to legitimately win versus scouts in dogfights, except other scouts. Scouts generally fear damage they can't use their cooldowns to immune, such as railgun drones as part of a nest, or seismic mines. If the question is, "what is the best dogfighter to take down a scout, that is not itself a scout", then the honest answer is a type 3 gunship, because it can dogfight meaningfully and if the scout runs, it can't just rely on range to escape, it actually needs to line of sight as well. But that doesn't mean that the strikes aren't worth learning or playing. The community doesn't spam the forum with "please buff strikes" threads because the devs confirmed that strikes need a buff, and they are working on it, and it's clear to most players who read between the lines that strike buffs depend on the devs having some hours to spend on GSF- it's not a dev issue at this point, it's a business case one.

 

So play a strike that is somewhat effective against scouts and assume that, should they buff the stuff that is underpowered, that skill will translate to scout killing ability in the future, and enjoy the unique playstyle of switching weapons for an advantage and managing shields cleverly, even if that playstyle doesn't have the numbers to make it actually good. It's clearly intended to be a playstyle, and even if it never becomes one, it's still enjoyable.

 

 

Just don't think you should run it versus good players who are running the meta and playing to win, assuming that beating them is your goal

[RickDagles]

Normal rule is: You can be resting with power to shields, but the moment you have a chance to have your blasters on a target, you switch to F1 as part of that. Basically, if it helps absorb the first hit, great, if not, whatever. You really need all the damage.

 

But when you have ion cannon versus a scout: You really can take a couple shots with F2 or F3 on, but be sure to be in F1 when you are shooting rapid fire lasers. Mostly you will alternate between F1 and F3, and F2 is reserved for if you run LOS of someone. The F2 can get your shields back quickly when you haven't been under fire.

 

This ship requires MORE power management than other ships, not less. You definitely should never be sitting in F2, for real. The only difference is that F2 actually has some rare use in combat when you are running quick charge shields.

 

Yep as you and tune stated, I'd definitely recommend being in F2 when you have full health at the very start of a joust. It basically gives you either 350 or 540 free HP (not sure on the math) which is like 1 free laser shot. After the first hit switch to F1 of course. Not really super necessary but it's a pretty noticeable boost on the Strikes. Basically the only other time I use F2 on the frontlines is when tanking with a feedback shot or hitting someone that has feedback enabled.

Edited October 9, 2015 by RickDagles

[RickDagles]

Hi Greezt! All right, I know I will be out-mathed by those who have spent more time on the math, but I want to offer up a Strike build I've had a lot of fun dogfighting with.

 

I should preface this with a few points:

1. You seem to be arguing for a baseline of comparable skill levels between yourself and your target, so my assertion that this can be a useful build is partly based on that (although most of the time you're going to be facing an imbalance one way or another).

2. While I think Strikes are a lot more useful than "the common consensus" seems to, I must admit that if the team's winning prospects appear in serious jeopardy I will generally not launch a Strike fighter.

3. The above #2 point being said, even in relatively even matches I've actually had very decent success dogfighting in the below build.

 

Star Guard

Primary 1: Ion Cannon (Drain Engine Power/Drain Shield Power)

Primary 2: Quad Lasers (Crit Chance/Hull Damage)

Secondary: Concussion Missiles (Range/Ignore Armor)

Shields: Directional (Reduced Delay)

Engines: Koiogran Turn (Turning Rate)

Capacitor: Range

Magazine: Regeneration

Reactor: Large

Thrusters: Regeneration

 

CoPilot: Akaavi - Wingman (Accuracy +20% for 20 seconds)

Offensive: Qyzen (Firing Arc +2 degrees/Accuracy 6%)

Defensive: Nadia (Shield Pool +10%/Evasion 5%)

Tactical: Akaavi (Communication boost/Sensor Dampening)

Engineering: Yuun (Blaster cost -13%/Engine cost -13%) or C2-N2 (Engine pool +10%/Engine cost -13%)

 

In my experience, I've found that this build is pretty effective against most ships (even bombers), and a decent dogfighter. But even in this build, I would argue that it is probably weakest against scouts, which are the ship you are most wanting to pit it against. That being said, I've found it can still be useful against scouts in the following scenarios, and with the following tricks:

 

You need to initiate the dogfight. If the scout hits you first or gets you unawares, you are probably in serious trouble and will never be able to turn the situation around to get the upper hand. But if you can pick a target who is unaware of you or otherwise engaged (always ideal anyway), then this build gives you an advantage of range - hence my choice of Range capacitors and improved range on the Concussion missiles. If you unload on them with Ions while simultaneously locking your Concussion, and you can both land those Ion shots (so this is very dependent on your aiming skills) and also land that Concussion missile, most likely that Scout is simply dead. Whenever I've been able to land this combo (Ion barrage + Concussion) I have found it is a one-two kill more than 50% of the time on any ship, provided they are not at 100% health & shields (although sometimes even then, with a Concussion crit). I've even had good success taking down bombers this way, although again, not if they're at 100%.

 

Your challenge with scouts in particular is that they will very likely break that Concussion lock, which is the key to victory. To avoid this, I actually prefer to get into a joust - and that's where the Directional Shields come in. If you can get a scout into a game of chicken with your shields forward, and you have been locking that Concussion the entire time, then very often you will find that a Scout pilot will hit its DF or maneuver too late to avoid eating that Concussion missile, provided you have been closing the distance gap during the joust so that you launch the missile at point blank.

 

If you can't get the Scout into a joust as per above, then this is where/why I prefer Quads to HLC. Once the Scout has you in a dogfight, you cannot afford to be caught in a turning battle (because you will lose, even with the turning thrusters upgrade). I will often blow a K-Turn (or other engine maneuver of your choice) just to break the turning fight a little bit and open up some more range for you to start using Quads. With Directional Shields, even set to default (which you absolutely want to do as soon as you are out of jousting mode), you can eat a whole lot of Cluster missiles so I don't worry as much about blowing that missile break. If you have managed to land your previous Ion shots, then the Scout should be very vulnerable and some close-fighting Quads shots might finish them off.

 

Main points to be aware of and manage are:

• Engine power - As with all strikes, you are going to be starved for it. Battlefield awareness is key. Pick your targets carefully and position yourself well to minimize your need to boost.
  
• Range - Good range awareness and management are key to success. That's true for all ships, but especially so for this Starguard build. Knowing when to start Ion barrage, knowing when to break off, calculating missile locks, etc
  
• Directional Shields - You have to get the hang of these, and that can take some time and learning. But they are key to your survivability and efficacy in this build, as they are what will allow you to hold up under Scout BLC volleys.
  
• Concussion Missiles - This build only really comes into its own once Concussions are fully upgraded (for the final ignore armor tier). It's still viable at only the second upgrade (reduced lockon time), but until the final tier you are never going to manage any of those one-two kill combos with an Ion barrage.
  

 

If you're looking to see how this build holds up, here are some scoreboards in which I am flying as Derrad, and I left the chat log up so you can see the Starguard is the only thing I flew. I usually hesitate to share scoreboards, because I strongly feel they don't really provide an accurate picture of player contribution in a match and I'm leery of participating in prestige races. However, since Strikes get a lot of flak, I thought it would be good to show proof that they can still be viable. While none of these matches were nail-bitingly close or anything like that, none were blowouts and all had some decent opposition.

 

Starguard TDM 1

Starguard TDM 2

Starguard TDM 3

 

 

I agree with almost everything you're saying here, and I actually really want to try ion+conc vs bombers (I've never done that for some reason). But I just want to point out a huge glaring error here. There is absolutely no way you will land a conc on a good scout player unless he gets a phone call or something in the middle of your joust. That's why DF exists. Any scout with his head screwed on properly will not participate in a joust unless he has DF or retro available. A scout that's using barrel roll will always have a break because most of them save barrel roll for "getting out of dodge". And anyone that runs powerdive laughs at all missiles, including clusters.

 

Also concussion missile ignore armor upgrade is pretty much useless on anything except bomber with high deflection armor/CP. But hey, you're right it definitely sounds threatening to rampart/razowires unless they can either LoS you or land an interdiction mine.

Edited October 9, 2015 by RickDagles

[JediBoadicea]

There is absolutely no way you will land a conc on a good scout player unless he gets a phone call or something in the middle of your joust.

 

I don't really disagree with you here, except perhaps in degree. That's part of why I had to make a point to the OP that he seemed to be presuming an equal level of skill, which is almost never true. And also that I felt this build was weakest against scouts, of all the ship types.

 

That being said, I have absolutely killed scouts with this Star Guard build, but I am also convinced those scout pilots were not very experienced. I think an experienced scout - who is both aware of you and not being also pounded on by someone else at the same time - is going to be able to outmaneuver you in any dogfight here. Perhaps the best I can say for this build in a dogfight with an experienced scout is that - if you manage your Directionals well - you have pretty decent survivability. That's always assuming that you're near allies who can help prevent you from dying a slow death by BLC attrition, of course.

 

Outside of the 1v1 Strike vs Scout the OP seemed to be asking about, though, I'll say I've had good success with this build as an assist against Scouts (Ion Cannons are always an awesome assist). And also that I've had very good success with this Star Guard build against all of the other ship types (except maybe a T3 GS, which is as tricky as many scouts to pin down). It's particularly good against bombers and other strikes, I've found.

[RickDagles]

I don't really disagree with you here, except perhaps in degree. That's part of why I had to make a point to the OP that he seemed to be presuming an equal level of skill, which is almost never true. And also that I felt this build was weakest against scouts, of all the ship types.

 

That being said, I have absolutely killed scouts with this Star Guard build, but I am also convinced those scout pilots were not very experienced. I think an experienced scout - who is both aware of you and not being also pounded on by someone else at the same time - is going to be able to outmaneuver you in any dogfight here. Perhaps the best I can say for this build in a dogfight with an experienced scout is that - if you manage your Directionals well - you have pretty decent survivability. That's always assuming that you're near allies who can help prevent you from dying a slow death by BLC attrition, of course.

 

Outside of the 1v1 Strike vs Scout the OP seemed to be asking about, though, I'll say I've had good success with this build as an assist against Scouts (Ion Cannons are always an awesome assist). And also that I've had very good success with this Star Guard build against all of the other ship types (except maybe a T3 GS, which is as tricky as many scouts to pin down). It's particularly good against bombers and other strikes, I've found.

 

Oh for sure. I think ions are heavily underrated because they are basically regular lasers on crack (0.5% less tracking penalty, 6% more accuracy at max range, 1 less power draw, DOUBLE DAMAGE+). The 4600m range isn't super terrible IMO. Most people run damage capacitor quads or damage capacitor regular lasers at 5200m range easily enough. I think the biggest drawback is that the starguard really doesn't have a good 2nd weapon to switch to after easily stripping the shields. If it had BLC or even LLC then it would be dangerous.

 

 

Also yes I agree with directionals. All hail the directional shields master race.

Edited October 9, 2015 by RickDagles

[Verain]

Ehhh... I'm not sure that ions are actually underrated- almost every starguard build has them. Heavies / rapids is the only non-ion build I've seen anyone really speak in favor of. But the devs may have hoped that they would carry the type 1 strike with their monster situational dps, and they obviously don't.

[Greezt]

I used to fly the TZ-24 a lot against scouts and I would not recommend RFL with Ions. HLC and wingman are the keys to beating a scout, RFL is kinda pointless, but I would use it at very close range, it's not as bad as everyone seems to think. My build is

HLC (4 left, 5 left)

RFL (4 right, 5 right)

cluster (4 left, 5 right)

retro (left)

directional (right)

large reactor

regen thrusters

range cap

regen mag

 

The control of retro and wingman are very important, these they are basically the only trump cards you have. Surviving against scouts is a lot about position and situational awareness, you can't straight joust them like if you're flying a scout. Nor do you want to get into a turning war because nothing beats BLC in a close range fight. Trying to make a strike do that won't work. I would usually watch a scout till they are have burned enough of their engines that engaging them is more favorable. A great way is to constantly missile lock on them and force engine use. A lot of times I won't even shoot the scout when doing this so I don't waste weapon energy. You don't want the scout to suddenly turn on you and then you have no weapon power for an engagement . Also, HLC have heavy weapon tracking penalties, so most off center shots aren't worth it. When the scout is around 6900 meters away, pop wingman and hit them at max range (6900 m), then most scouts will joust you. When you get to 3000 meters you retro and keep shooting. Power should be to F1, and shields should be forward. In the case of the scout using pods, you need to be careful and you should always be ready to bail quickly by boosting either through or at an angle away from the target. My best piece of advice is to learn the limits of a strike and don't try to make it do things it wasn't designed to do. I'll be streaming tonight for the shadowlands event and will mostly be flying strikes if you're interesting in watching. I'll make a separate post about the stream since it's for an event, but the link is in my signature.

 

Thanks, I'm catching up on them right now