Juromaro Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 That's a far worse position than I find myself in -- I just prefer to be overleveled and solo things because I like the game to be entertaining and relaxing, and don't play games for some kind of faked-up adrenaline rush. But don't worry, you'll be happy to know that neither of us count, I've been told that players like us should leave if we don't like any change Bioware ever makes, or if it's "not the game for us" any more. The game is being made "more fun" and "more relevant" and "more engaging", and we shouldn't stand in the way of progress. I don't think I've ever once told a person they aren't welcome here, but I'll tell you the same thing I'll tell the guy you quoted with CP......adapt. Adapt to changes, embrace them and learn how to make them work in your favor. Don't be weak and cower in fear of change, don't stand by bitterly and scream at the world because something is different. Adapt and make it your *****. Or don't and be crushed under the pressure of progress. As for the CP guy, truly sorry about your condition, for whatever that's worth on the internet, not going to tell you how to play or that you should press on in spite of changes, so I won't. I'll simply say I applaud you in whatever endeavor you succeed in. o7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadtechSavant Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Why would you NOT want level sync? I haven't seen a single valid reason why level sync should be removed, because all of those are counterable. Maybe try reading and responding with a point for point analysis and we can have a rational discussion Not to troll, but I haven't seen any valid reasoning. IF you'd be willing to provide it I'd be willing to have the conversation That's fine as we have yet to see any valid reason to have it either. Better question is why would you WANT IT. any reason to have it are just as counter able. And since you are just as unwilling to provide evidence, that conversation probably not going to happen. It seem to me the only valid reason I have seen is "well you have not tried it yet so how do you know"> Well back at you, because guess what you have not tried it yet either so how do you know its so good. That crap works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansotey Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 That does nothing to stop exploiting using other methods. One example: Player A and his buddy player B go back to lower level planets to run heroics for exp and rewards. They do not group up. Player A is level sync'd and picks up heroic quest. Player A tags mobs for quest and his buddy player B then kills them. Player A then turns in quest, gets the "reward" for completing quest while level sync'd, although player B who was not level sync'd did all the "work". Then player A "opts out" of level sync and player "opts in" and reverse the process for player B's heroic. That is only one example. There are likely more possibilities for exploitation of an "optional" level sync. Making level sync mandatory puts everyone on as close to equal footing as possible and makes finding a way to exploit the system much more difficult to do. To what end? They get some quick xp? They get some great money? The only time people will bother exploiting a game is when it benefits them more than another legitimate method would. By the same token a player that has been level synced down could just run heroic missions with people and grind through them faster than someone going through the content fresh could...would that not also be an exploit since the higher level player that has been level synced down is supposedly so much stronger than the normal player? At the end of the day when a player reaches max level the experience no longer matters, then it's down to the credits you get from it. Do you think that even face rolling through heroics in the exploit you're proposing would pay out more than doing dailies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legolose Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Look its going to be put in place to kill all the bots so live it, I mean damn you guys cry & QQ on getting spammed in via mail & on fleet with this spam so this is one way it will kill them just deal with it I mean geez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansotey Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'm on board for Level Sync, because it puts an end to High Level vs Lowbie PvP ganking. I love PvP. When it is on relatively balanced terms. A fair fight if you will. But a Level 60 heading to Tatooine and mopping the desert sands with Level 27s? Not even a remotely fair fight, and it tends to drive people away from PvP servers, as well as staying as far away from Open World PvP areas as possible. This is the solution that fixes that annoyance. Granted, there will always be imbalance, because of gear, or because of outright skill. But if you get jumped on by a Level Sync'd 60 as a 27, you at least have a fighting chance to defeat them, whereas before you did zero damage and basically had to try and run or stand there and die. Major kudos to Bioware on this! Thats great...if you PvP. I do not PvP outside of warzones and occasionally dueling another player because they stole my objective in open world I was fighting for. Mandatory level sync will do nothing to alleviate that issue, in fact it will compound the issue of people stealing objectives since more people will be running for the same objectives as you at any given time. In PvE and RP forcing a level sync doesn't accomplish anything but try to regurgitate old content into our laps that we have already out leveled...as such making it optional would not affect anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't think I've ever once told a person they aren't welcome here, but I'll tell you the same thing I'll tell the guy you quoted with CP......adapt. Adapt to changes, embrace them and learn how to make them work in your favor. Don't be weak and cower in fear of change, don't stand by bitterly and scream at the world because something is different. Adapt and make it your *****. Or don't and be crushed under the pressure of progress. Makes "progress" reference regarding a video game. That's almost as funny as the Apple-fanatics constantly citing "progress" as why no one should ever have a phone of any model more than 6 months old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 This thread is great, and I enjoyed reading Max trying to worm his way out of the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 ... 1. Actually, no, level-sync is coming to everyone, not just those who "do KotFE", so if I were to take my level 60+ to Korriban for some reason, they'll only be at Korriban level for the duration, which is nonsense. Why would a character be 1/2 or 1/10th as powerful just because of the planet they're standing on, across all the planets in the galaxy? It beggars all belief and kicks suspension of disbelief squarely in the nuts. How so? In the Star Wars universe does moving from one planet to the next automatically make you more powerful? This only happens in the game as you level. Your experience (new talents, passives) are acquired over time and so when you go back you still have an advantage. Being able to go back to a planet and be in "God Mode" is what ruins my suspension of disbelief as does seeing other "God Mode" characters running around when I try to level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakakiba Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Makes "progress" reference regarding a video game. That's almost as funny as the Apple-fanatics constantly citing "progress" as why no one should ever have a phone of any model more than 6 months old... Do you know what's really funny? Getting upset and rage-quitting over changes in a video game. Truly, it's hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Do you know what's really funny? Getting upset and rage-quitting over changes in a video game. Truly, it's hilarious. Watch out feelings will get hurt and he will ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansotey Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 So you'd rather faceroll old content than give bioware the future ability to develop newer content on old planets that's level neutral that anyone can participate in? Seems legit. This could be done just the same with Level Sync being optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 How so? In the Star Wars universe does moving from one planet to the next automatically make you more powerful? This only happens in the game as you level. Your experience (new talents, passives) are acquired over time and so when you go back you still have an advantage. Being able to go back to a planet and be in "God Mode" is what ruins my suspension of disbelief as does seeing other "God Mode" characters running around when I try to level. In "the Star Wars universe", did Anakin/Vader become a naive inexperienced small pod-racing-obessed child every time he went back to Tatooine? It's not about the specific planet, it's about regressing in skill, experience, power, ability, etc for no reason other than that you went to some planet you were on years ago. Also, there's a very easy solution to the issue of other people who are over-leveled "ruining your disbelief"... stop paying so much attention to what other players are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 This could be done just the same with Level Sync being optional. No it can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 In "the Star Wars universe", did Anakin/Vader become a naive inexperienced small pod-racing-obessed child every time he went back to Tatooine? It's not about the specific planet, it's about regressing in skill, experience, power, ability, etc for no reason other than that you went to some planet you were on years ago. Also, there's a very easy solution to the issue of other people who are over-leveled "ruining your disbelief"... stop paying so much attention to what other players are doing. But you aren't regressing in skill, experience, or talents, just in some stats. You'll still be a better more powerful character than when you were leveling just not ridiculously so. The "you" that returns could easily best the "you" that leveled on that planet even with the down-sync for some stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansotey Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Look its going to be put in place to kill all the bots so live it, I mean damn you guys cry & QQ on getting spammed in via mail & on fleet with this spam so this is one way it will kill them just deal with it I mean geez... How will Mandatory Level Sync prevent players from getting spammed in any way? Answer: It won't. The Spammers can sit on fleet and plow through names, sending out mail to massive amounts of players at level 1. Mandatory Level Sync does nothing to prevent that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 How will Mandatory Level Sync prevent players from getting spammed in any way? Answer: It won't. The Spammers can sit on fleet and plow through names, sending out mail to massive amounts of players at level 1. Mandatory Level Sync does nothing to prevent that. I believe he is probably referring to the resource farming BOTs, but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeeyyMagzz Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 How will Mandatory Level Sync prevent players from getting spammed in any way? Answer: It won't. The Spammers can sit on fleet and plow through names, sending out mail to massive amounts of players at level 1. Mandatory Level Sync does nothing to prevent that. It doesn't matter what the reason is. Bioware hath spoken, level sync shall be mandatory, and it becoming optional is not even being discussed. Time for all of the people that don't want it to either unsub, or start the healing process. This isn't the droid you're looking for... move along, move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) But you aren't regressing in skill, experience, or talents, just in some stats. You'll still be a better more powerful character than when you were leveling just not ridiculously so. The "you" that returns could easily best the "you" that leveled on that planet even with the down-sync for some stats. Based on... one video by a Dev, using a Dev character, on a Dev server, fighting some of the easiest "heroic" mobs in the game (at least in the current iteration)? At any rate, it doesn't matter. If the downsync is actually noticeable to severe, then it makes "progression" far less meaningful (all a new level does is unlock new content as you go along) and makes the game far less enjoyable for some players. If the downsync is cosmetic, then all it does is add a "what the heck?" moment to the game every time you go back to those lower-level planets, and turn on the agro radius for a bunch of mobs that used to ignore you, but that will die in 2 hits instead of 1 hit -- and it still makes the game less enjoyable by upping the tedium and and nuisance factor as you have to slog through those mobs or take the time to evade them by going much farther around each group. When it comes to many people who are opposed to mandatory levelsync, the whole "y u qq, no faceroll now?" thing is a complete red herring, a canard of epic proportions. When we're on the way to the BCW Kingpin's location or the HK part you need or that datacron you missed or that part of the map you missed exploring or those mats you want to farm while no lowbies are around, or etc... it's not a question of how hard it is to fight those local trash mobs that we've already fought many 1000s of times now across various characters and missions... it's a question of whether they're going to even notice us and whether we have to take the time to fight them at all. The best part of mobs being gray on those planets isn't that they're easy pickings, it's that we can just not fight them when we're there for something completely unrelated. When I go to Tatooine to track down a bounty for Bounty Contract Week, I'm not going there to wipe out sand people numbers 3967 through 4006, I'm going there to track down the bounty, full stop, end of story, nothing else. Also, when it comes down to it, I don't care if levesync is 1 HP, 1 Damage, and 1 Heal less per level you go down, it's still levelsync, it still does nothing to make the game any better for some players, and it still should never have been made mandatory. Edited October 16, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansotey Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 No it can't. Explain you side then. Because they aren't going to take existing areas and revamp them by taking out old content and adding in new content, thus they would need to create new areas or instances for them. This would lead to them being able to make those areas; at a certain level, higher level, instanced for groups, etc. Or just make Level Sync optional for all content on outleveled planets. Forcing people to outleveled planets already happens during the Class Missions, why should a player be punished for going to a outleveled planet to do a single Class Mission when they are level 40 on a level 24-28 planet? Thus they can in fact accomplish adding new content to old planets without enforcing a Mandatory Level Sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 But you aren't regressing in skill, experience, or talents, just in some stats. You'll still be a better more powerful character than when you were leveling just not ridiculously so. The "you" that returns could easily best the "you" that leveled on that planet even with the down-sync for some stats. To them levels=skill, experience and talents. Just how some RP'ers somehow think a level sync is going to make them an apprentice again. The reason they hate it so much is because it's forced on them, they like 1 shotting things, they like having mobs ignore them, they like being able to RP in a Warzone and have their stories be so feared that the enemies ignore them. They like having the option of soloing a WB because it gives them a sense of their power. They don't want to be inconvenienced with having to fight every group of mobs they may or may not come up against while farming nodes that'll drop mats based off skill level. They don't like the idea that they a level 65 could possibly lose to 2 level 29s on a level 29 planet. Most of all it's a don't take my shiny stuff away. I personally think they should adapt and see it as a new challenge to overcome, but that's just me telling them how to play a game....and they don't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 To them levels=skill, experience and talents. Just how some RP'ers somehow think a level sync is going to make them an apprentice again. The reason they hate it so much is because it's forced on them, they like 1 shotting things, they like having mobs ignore them, they like being able to RP in a Warzone and have their stories be so feared that the enemies ignore them. They like having the option of soloing a WB because it gives them a sense of their power. They don't want to be inconvenienced with having to fight every group of mobs they may or may not come up against while farming nodes that'll drop mats based off skill level. They don't like the idea that they a level 65 could possibly lose to 2 level 29s on a level 29 planet. Most of all it's a don't take my shiny stuff away. I personally think they should adapt and see it as a new challenge to overcome, but that's just me telling them how to play a game....and they don't like that. Wow, it's like the disdain and condescension are almost visibly dripping off your commentary there. You seem to think you know a lot about people you've never met, and never watched play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 .....At any rate, it doesn't matter. If the downsync is actually noticeable to severe, then it makes "progression" far less meaningful (all a new level does is unlock new content as you go along) and makes the game far less enjoyable for some players. .... For new players it won't be noticeable. When they go back they'll just notice they'll be more powerful than when they left. For old players it will take some adjustment. Especially if they are in the habit of farming old content. But I believe that they'll get used to it, for the most part, and hopefully enjoy it. Bottom line for me is that this is a change in gameplay mechanics. I personally believe that gameplay mechanics need to be consistent throughout the game universe. I personally believe that this is a good change. But I also believe that it would not be a good idea to make it optional. Not implementing it at all would be better than making it optional IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Wow, it's like the disdain and condescension are almost visibly dripping off your commentary there. You seem to think you know a lot about people you've never met, and never watched play. It could be, my shirt is getting wet from all the dripping. Yeah I've never met any of them, nor watched them play, and since no names are actually mentioned in my post I can safely say with 100% certainty that what I posted pertained directly to those "them" players who have said those exact things(not word for word). Now I could have said "The entire Anti-Mandatory group", but then someone would come on here, quote my post try and "refute" it by saying something about majorities and alots and other things, but I didn't and I still love you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) It could be, my shirt is getting wet from all the dripping. Yeah I've never met any of them, nor watched them play, and since no names are actually mentioned in my post I can safely say with 100% certainty that what I posted pertained directly to those "them" players who have said those exact things(not word for word). Now I could have said "The entire Anti-Mandatory group", but then someone would come on here, quote my post try and "refute" it by saying something about majorities and alots and other things, but I didn't and I still love you. Yeah, my response was probably a little harsh, but I'm long past tired of posts that seem to come off as personal commentary anyone who is opposed to mandatory sync, and that might make me a bit trigger-happy, Edited October 16, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Yeah, my response was probably a little harsh, but I'm long past tired of posts that seem to come off as personal commentary anyone who is opposed to mandatory sync, and that might make me a bit trigger-happy, We should team up, take it on the road: Prosync_Juro and Antisync_Max....we could make BILLIONS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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