Clarion shields

[Ryuku-sama]

Also a fair point but that also depends on when you're being attacked. I encourage you to come to Jedi Cov and find out the hard way what ignoring me can do to you. Also a fully charged railgun slug is exactly why I recommended the Elara/whoever else damage resist. I can survive your ion and your slug and by that time I've fired a missle and in guns range, and then I can keep you running cause I'll still have more than half my engines left, while you gotta keep moving to get away and get off a second slug or turn on me with BLC which allows me to target you with a torpedo again if you dodged the first one.

 

I don't wanna dismiss your skill. But three things. I'm among the worst gunships players who can actually threaten you.. And I defy you to land a kill on my gunship now that I have Disto break and BR. With both I can actually break every single one of your missile. And your Quads aren't even a threat. You're too slow to follow a gunship after BR before he can turn around and Ion you then Slug you to death.

 

Elara DR doesn't affect Slug in any way.. Slug pierces DR once it's upgraded to T3.

 

The only thing you can threaten in a Clarion is a lesser upgraded GUnship without Disto break, a strike or a bomber. Anything with breaker every 10s will completely waste your missiles... And everyanything with range control will ignore your lasers.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Who are you on Jedi Cov?

 

I'm not denying the Clarion is horribly outmatched, I'm just here to say people often underestimate it and that it doesn't have to be a support ship. Just here to offer a different strategy to it.

 

Elara DR doesn't affect Slug in any way.. Slug pierces DR once it's upgraded to T3.

 

It's a 30% damage reduction. I don't see how slug can pierce it when it applies to all damage. It's a percentage.

 

I don't wanna dismiss your skill. But three things. I'm among the worst gunships players who can actually threaten you.. And I defy you to land a kill on my gunship now that I have Disto break and BR. With both I can actually break every single one of your missile. And your Quads aren't even a threat. You're too slow to follow a gunship after BR before he can turn around and Ion you then Slug you to death.

 

The only thing you can threaten in a Clarion is a lesser upgraded GUnship without Disto break, a strike or a bomber. Anything with breaker every 10s will completely waste your missiles... And everyanything with range control will ignore your lasers.

 

A little harsh man but I won't say it's not true. I'm by no means the best player on Jedi Cov, I've just gotten a lot better in recent months.

 

And yeah many fully upgraded scouts are very difficult for me to kill because their engines and turn rate make it really hard to grab a lock on them unless I'm jousting. If I'm jousting I can usually tank through it (Rakun/Murrauder and his damn rocket pods though...) but they'll often evade and survive, in many cases before I am. When I go after people I usually target those who have either just evaded or have half health (preferably both), but I also loose a lot of kills to other people that way because they can usually get there before the proton torpedo can.

 

BLC scouts... yeah I can't do a damn thing against them. Once in a while I'll manage to kill one but otherwise I'm royally ****ed unless I've got someone covering me.

 

I'm a good player but I'm far from unstoppable, and there are times when I just screw up royally (often whole matches, lol). Usually it's a result of lack of engine power, like you said.

 

I can chase gunships, but I do best when I can use asteroids or debris against the gunship, while chasing one in the open is liable to get me killed (and unfortunately usually what I end up having to do when I chase gunships). You're right on the evade cooldowns but I'm usually timing my fire so if the first one misses (which it usually will) I can fire and hit with the second one, but again there's also the drawback that I'm usually exposed and outside of guns range when I'm firing the second torpedo so I often die before I can close in or escape.

 

Framerate is usually the issue when I'm fighting with guns, mine is usually hovering less than ~30 FPS while most of you guys are 60 FPS cause my laptop is older and not as powerful (and I'm pretty sure the oinsides are half melted, can't even browse the internet without a fan on it).

 

Also my ping in matches is usually constantly back and forth between 40ms and 1000ms (and sometimes worse) when I'm playing at home, but I don't always lag and I'm not using it as an excuse, but I'd probably be a lot better if I didn't find out I was dead before I even heard a missle lock or got any indication I was being attacked.

 

Again, not using that as an excuse, but lag happens to everyone. Poor Isa tonight was really suffering.

 

Only real reason I've often been dominating the pub-side leaderboard for kills is because most of the pub-side players better than me aren't around, or at least not when I'm online. Tobias/Zuck, Averann, etc mostly play at night these days, and Traesha is gone cause of her computer. Some have been on but sporadically, I'd say Nyo, Liese, and Mairenn are as good as or better than me. I usually group with them because they provide a good team that can keep my stupid *** covered when I end up in an awry entanglement with a gunship or scout.

 

I don't get much of a chance to fight the good imps on even terms though, cause when they come online it's like 8 versus 3-4 of us or whatever with half their team composed of gunships. Not usually infuriating but also not great flying conditions if you get what I'm saying. Having Eichmann, Saevius, Tenebrious, and Graendhal all in the same match is not fun. And whenever Zuck is on imp side I basically say "**** it" and just hang back around the spawn most of the match so I don't end up with like a 1 to 8 K/D. It's nice when the matches are even though, usually then I can show I know what I'm doing at least.

 

Finally, I do want to vehemently protest and maintain that my number one cause of death in this game is to power dive + asteroid.

Edited October 6, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[tunewalker]

 

 

 

It's a 30% damage reduction. I don't see how slug can pierce it when it applies to all damage. It's a percentage.

 

 

 

 

There are several weapons in the game, slug railgun included, that either passively or when upgraded (slug its the Tier 3 upgrade) that are able to ignore 100% of the opponents DR, in these cases all DR for these weapons are considered 0% so it doesnt matter what % Damage reduction you have (you can get up to 99% + on some builds) these weapons 100% ignore these Damage Reduction numbers. This is why Deflection armor and Damage Reduction is considered useless for a lot of ships since the weapons most commonly found in the Meta have 100% Armor Pierce, AKA 100% ignore DR AKA ignores all forms of Damage Reduction you place on your ship or buff your ship with at all times no matter what, they care 0% about what you think your Damage Reduction is because to them, it is always 0.

 

(this includes the DR provided by compaions such as Elara or any other on use ability such as Charged plating ALL Damage reduction is treated as armor and ALL weapons with 100% armor penetration or 100% Damage reduction what ever the weapon is deciding to call it are treated the same way because they are the same, sometimes they use different terminology but the fact of the matter is Damage Reduction in ALL forms is 100% useless against a weapon that Ignores 100% of Damage Reduction, slug Railgun being one of them..... and you MAY kill Verain in a Clarion, but only after he has successfully shot down a few more of the scrubs on your team. 1 kill for 10 is not your team winning, unfortunately, at least that's been my experience and I like to think of myself as at least half decent on a strike fighter....)

Edited October 6, 2015 by tunewalker

[Ryuku-sama]

Who are you on Jedi Cov?

 

Z'erö among many other name not seen since I came back from Harbringer.

 

It's a 30% damage reduction. I don't see how slug can pierce it when it applies to all damage. It's a percentage.

 

Tune already answered this and he is totally right. The correct copilot active to use to counter railguns would be Suppression. And it will help you a lot more vs scouts.. Especially if you run Lightweight Armor. The only reason to run a DR build (Charged and Deflection) would be to counter Bombers on a sat... And even then, Suppression would be the best copilot active.

 

And yeah many fully upgraded scouts are very difficult for me to kill because their engines and turn rate make it really hard to grab a lock on them unless I'm jousting. If I'm jousting I can usually tank through it (Rakun/Murrauder and his damn rocket pods though...) but they'll often evade and survive, in many cases before I am. When I go after people I usually target those who have either just evaded or have half health (preferably both), but I also loose a lot of kills to other people that way because they can usually get there before the proton torpedo can.

 

BLC scouts... yeah I can't do a damn thing against them. Once in a while I'll manage to kill one but otherwise I'm royally ****ed unless I've got someone covering me.

 

I don,t wanna dismiss your skill.... You're a very good striker.. But I doubt you ever saw the waste Keenz, Rumina and Shayd could lay with a scout.... And both Shayd and Rumina mainly use Quad'n'Pods scouts. I have seen all of them do 30+ kills. I've seen them utterly rape pilots.

The only ships with some chance against that kind of onslaught is a scout with CD's up and a little luck or a gunship with some luck. Bombers can also hold their own if they are fully set up. Strikes? THey don,t stand a chance. They don't have the range advantage. No area denial. And inferior mobility. Along with inferior burst AND sustained DPS and accuracy and evasion.

 

I can chase gunships, but I do best when I can use asteroids or debris against the gunship, while chasing one in the open is liable to get me killed (and unfortunately usually what I end up having to do when I chase gunships). You're right on the evade cooldowns but I'm usually timing my fire so if the first one misses (which it usually will) I can fire and hit with the second one, but again there's also the drawback that I'm usually exposed and outside of guns range when I'm firing the second torpedo so I often die before I can close in or escape.

 

And that's Verain's point. A gunship can almost ignore your first torpedo and BR away when you get in range or after Disto drops... Which is enough time to waste one of your teamate.. Maybe two or three.

 

Only real reason I've often been dominating the pub-side leaderboard for kills is because most of the pub-side players better than me aren't around, or at least not when I'm online. Tobias/Zuck, Averann, etc mostly play at night these days, and Traesha is gone cause of her computer. Some have been on but sporadically, I'd say Nyo, Liese, and Mairenn are as good as or better than me. I usually group with them because they provide a good team that can keep my stupid *** covered when I end up in an awry entanglement with a gunship or scout.

 

I don't get much of a chance to fight the good imps on even terms though, cause when they come online it's like 8 versus 3-4 of us or whatever with half their team composed of gunships. Not usually infuriating but also not great flying conditions if you get what I'm saying. Having Eichmann, Saevius, Tenebrious, and Graendhal all in the same match is not fun. And whenever Zuck is on imp side I basically say "**** it" and just hang back around the spawn most of the match so I don't end up with like a 1 to 8 K/D. It's nice when the matches are even though, usually then I can show I know what I'm doing at least.

 

Bah.. We all have good and bad matches. I seem to remember a match where I stuck on my Repair despite you harrassing me and my team doing nothing to win... Ended like 3/1/5 I think.

 

Finally, I do want to vehemently protest and maintain that my number one cause of death in this game is to power dive + asteroid.

 

I can assure you many pilots here know this struggle. The sneaky Asteroid has killed me more than any single pilot out there!!!!!!!

Edited October 6, 2015 by Ryuku-sama

[Verain]

I'm not denying the Clarion is horribly outmatched, I'm just here to say people often underestimate it and that it doesn't have to be a support ship. Just here to offer a different strategy to it.

 

Maybe we're talking from slightly different angles, but I gave you a pretty good rundown of why I fear a Clarion diving me way less than a battle scout or attack skiff. And no, I don't think that would threaten me much- and whatever threat it could bring, could be brought much better in a ship that is actually good at that. Do you play super serious nights ever? If so, I think you could get a feel for why the Clarion is frustrating pretty quickly. We very rarely see or play that ship in competitive environments, and I don't really think it's for lack of trying.

 

Obviously, most games you will play will not be against great players. Getting on any ship in those games will work, Clarion most certainly included. No one is claiming you can't eat food in a Clarion, or dive a gunship at all. But as has been pointed out, you can't land a lockon missile against one, and you can't burst one down in close quarters, and while you can outmaneuver them and outrun them over a really infinite space, you can't kill one that is line of sighting you at all. Put the gunship anywhere but open space and you'd be hard pressed to even break a shield layer unless he allows it while killing your allies. A battle scout in that situation can't be ignored.

 

It's a 30% damage reduction. I don't see how slug can pierce it when it applies to all damage. It's a percentage.

 

This has been explained, but I want to be clear- you have 0% damage reduction versus a slug railgun. The moment the slug has the 5000 req tier 3 talent, all armor and damage reduction of all sorts are ignored completely. This is also true of rocket pods, heavy lasers, burst laser cannon, proton torpedo, thermites, concussions- anyone who has that talent unlocked and selected.

[Danalon]

It's a 30% damage reduction. I don't see how slug can pierce it when it applies to all damage. It's a percentage.

 

For GSF, everything that's called "hull damage reduction" or "damage reduction" usually just means that armor is added, which in turn means AP weapons aren't affected.

In the beginning I fell for that with defenseive copilot passives, where it says "damage reduction increased by 9%" but it just adds 9% armor.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Danalon

[FlavivsAetivs]

Do you play super serious nights ever? If so, I think you could get a feel for why the Clarion is frustrating pretty quickly. We very rarely see or play that ship in competitive environments, and I don't really think it's for lack of trying.

 

Jedi Cov very rarely gets that kind of super-serious, and when it does it's when all the good imps log in at once (by chance, not a coordinated sort of thing like Harb has to deal with) so we're royally ****ed because there's not enough veteran pub players to compete with that, unless Zuck or Averann are on pub side.

 

Again I don't play on Harb because I don't want to deal with the ******** over there and because I don't have the connection to play there either. My ping would be like 1000 ms perpetually. I've learned to live with that on Jedi Cov at least because it goes in and out.

 

Z'erö among many other name not seen since I came back from Harbringer.

 

Oh hey Zero!

 

Tune already answered this and he is totally right. The correct copilot active to use to counter railguns would be Suppression. And it will help you a lot more vs scouts.. Especially if you run Lightweight Armor. The only reason to run a DR build (Charged and Deflection) would be to counter Bombers on a sat... And even then, Suppression would be the best copilot active.

 

Yeah I didn't realize that it counted as armor and therefore the 100% armor penetration cancelled that out. Thanks for explaining that Tune.

 

Will have to rework my crew loadout then, look for a better engines bonus or something. I keep HK and use the perk on torps and guns for maximum aiming radius.

 

I don,t wanna dismiss your skill.... You're a very good striker.. But I doubt you ever saw the waste Keenz, Rumina and Shayd could lay with a scout.... And both Shayd and Rumina mainly use Quad'n'Pods scouts. I have seen all of them do 30+ kills. I've seen them utterly rape pilots.

 

Have fought and killed Keenz when he returned for a while back in June/July. He wasn't as good as Zuck or Saevius or them, was annoying at first but Traesha and I ended up beating him several times. But he did waste us a few times, not 30+ kills but enough to make it a pain to fly against him.

 

The only ships with some chance against that kind of onslaught is a scout with CD's up and a little luck or a gunship with some luck. Bombers can also hold their own if they are fully set up. Strikes? THey don,t stand a chance. They don't have the range advantage. No area denial. And inferior mobility. Along with inferior burst AND sustained DPS and accuracy and evasion.

 

True.

 

I do have a fully upgraded BLC Flashfire and a rocket pods Novadive but I only use the former if I have to deal with Av or Zuck really and the latter for capture points in Domination at the beginning of the match.

 

Bah.. We all have good and bad matches. I seem to remember a match where I stuck on my Repair despite you harrassing me and my team doing nothing to win... Ended like 3/1/5 I think.

 

I prioritize gunships and BLC scouts when in deathmatch because they're annoying as crapand will wreck us pubs, cause we usually only have like one GS against like 4 Imp ones.

 

Generally I've switched to serving as a tantalizing lure because they know I don't have any advantage against them but I can draw them back into our gunship line. Then I overpower them after a gunship hits them with ion or a slug (or Nyo or Bluenose fly in with their scouts and start wrecking them).

 

Anyways yeah I've seen you lag your *** off a few times too. **** happens

 

I can assure you many pilots here know this struggle. The sneaky Asteroid has killed me more than any single pilot out there!!!!!!!

 

Yep lol.

Edited October 6, 2015 by FlavivsAetivs

[btbarrett]

I want to love the Clarion. It is exactly the type of ship I am predisposed to enjoying. I play a healer in the ground game in PvE and PvP and the Clarion is the closest thing to a true healer that we have in GSF. BUT...

 

There are a few things missing from the Clarion that keeps it from being a good choice in real competitive matches. The biggest thing is it's lack of a thruster component. This causes the ship to be less mobile than a Sledgehammer and to make matters worse, in order to maximize the utility its defining component (repair probes) you often have to expend what mobility you DO have to get near allies. The ship simply gets to nodes slower, cannot chase as effectively, and is too easy to strand in the middle of nowhere.

 

The other big problem is that it simply lacks teeth due to its lackluster secondary choices. I find torpedoes immensely satisfying, but good luck landing the consistently versus good players. This leaves you with only Quads as your damage dealer. They are excellent components, but they are made less effective by the Clarion's lack of maneuverability: Quads have pretty draconian tracking penalties so they are reliant on getting a ship lined up to be truly effective.

 

I contend that almost everything the Clarion does the Spearpoint does better or nearly as well. Spearpoints are light years more manueverable and mobile. Spearpoints have nearly the same firepower and can use it more effectively: it is much easier to get torpedo locks with a Spearpoint than it is with a Clarion; because Spearpoints are so much faster they are able to get to favorable ranges/angles such that their seemingly inferior primaries are, on average, better than a Clarion's. The Spearpoint gives up some healing (but not in all situations) and some toughness (but it can still be just as hard of a target due to the increased mobility). If you add tensor field and its utility into the equation, I think the Spearpoint far outstrips the Clarion. I have actually been debating the merits of staying in a Spearpoint for the entirety of serious Dom matches since Tensor is so useful and a Spearpoint can still harass (but not kill gunships) and destroy beacons, but that is a subject for another thread, probably.

 

The only way I can conceive of a Clarion being a legitimate choice in a serious match is if it were a 12 v 12 and it were functioning as an advanced mine-clearer/scout support when assaulting a node with a quick-strike.

 

Edit: I made a separate thread for the Spearpoint stuff so please respond to it there rather than derailing this thread further.

Edited October 6, 2015 by btbarrett

[Gentleman_snow]

I won't have a popular opinion here, but I used shield projector and I have no complaints. I think I'd appreciate it more overall if I had some visual feedback of it helping other players instead of wondering if it made a difference, or a stat to be tracked and announced post match showing team heals/assists.

 

That said, the Clarion is my favorite fighter and I don't fly much else. My build may not be popular build but I enjoy it immensely.

[btbarrett]

I won't have a popular opinion here, but I used shield projector and I have no complaints. I think I'd appreciate it more overall if I had some visual feedback of it helping other players instead of wondering if it made a difference, or a stat to be tracked and announced post match showing team heals/assists.

 

That said, the Clarion is my favorite fighter and I don't fly much else. My build may not be popular build but I enjoy it immensely.

 

Out of curiosity, have you tried the other "more standard" builds? If this is your favorite way to play the ship after checking out the typical builds then I don't see much wrong with it. You would likely do better in a more "optimal" build, but at the end of the day it is a game and thus what matters most is which build do you enjoy.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Out of curiosity, have you tried the other "more standard" builds? If this is your favorite way to play the ship after checking out the typical builds then I don't see much wrong with it. You would likely do better in a more "optimal" build, but at the end of the day it is a game and thus what matters most is which build do you enjoy.

 

Agreed. People take it too seriously. Clarion may not be the best but it's by far my favorite to fly.