Why scaling should not be optional

[SelinaH]

In my opinion you didn't earn it. That's what this is all about of course, our opinions. You felt you earned it I felt you didn't, no changing either of our mind.

 

What ACTUALLY matters is what BW thinks. Based on what can be seen currently they are in agreement with my attitude that if you want to run the godmode content then fine enjoy it. However don't expect to be rewarded for it because they also don't believe you earned it otherwise they wouldn't be putting in this change.

 

The rewards seem to be scaling based on your max level. So you get better rewards than the people who are level 10 doing the level 10 heroic. Yes you get scaled back to around say 12 for arguments sake if you CHOOSE to do so however you will get rewards more approriate to your level.

 

That's a fairly nice carrot there.

Unless deleveling actually scales a character's power (skills, gear and all) down such that (s)he becomes equal in power to a natively low-level character (something virtually no one seems to be expecting), I don't see how running lowbie content to gain high-level rewards is "earning it", either. As SteveTheCynic mentioned about GW2 earlier in the thread,

* It is possible to reach level 80 (cap) in a reasonable time, and with level upper-70s drop gear, just by running around the top-left corner of Queensdale killing the mobs there. That's a bit like levelling a JC or JK to cap without ever leaving the Gnarls.

In short, all you'd be doing is exchanging one reward loophole for another.

[Rafaman]

I just had to pop back in for a sec becasue I'm still giggling at irony that solo grinding some dailies for a few days (or just buying some cartel market packs to sell) to buy rewards that normally drop in group content only GTN - constitutes as earning them. while outleveling said content to solo it yourself and get a drop directly? does not count as earning it.

 

its hilarious. it really is.

 

thanks for the laugh of the evening.

 

No problem. You pay me good coin you can "earn" whatever I can sell you because someone killed that boss or cleared that content at level in the ideal world.

 

As it stands now, those farming for creds and soloing open world content are doing other players at the appropriate level a disservice.

[MillionsKNives]

Knives, I really don't understand your logic. lol. If it is in the game today it invalidates my position? So, I believe scaling the open world isn't a bad thing because you earn what you get by running content at level. Just because the game doesn't support that view today doesn't invalidate or contradict my argument.

 

It invalidates this, specifically: "People like you can't seem to understand the type of game you are playing. Greener pastures, there they are, but my guess you will have problems once you get there too." Which is why I quoted it directly. You state that this isn't the type of game she should be playing if that's what she wants, and yet this game already supports what she wants. How can it not be the correct type of game if it's the correct type of game?

 

It doesn't invalidate what you just wrote. I don't happen to agree, but you're certainly welcome to your own opinion on how you'd like it to work.

 

Please quit trying to argue with me through others. Lol. If I feel your responses warrant address I will do it. But I didn't really feel the need earlier because really, we are all speculating. Current gameplay doesn't make that speculation valid or invalid. We are talking about what "could" be or how we think the game should be based on content at level.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you through others, I'm responding to MeNaCe-NZ's responses to my argument with you.

[Jeweledleah]

Unless deleveling actually scales a character's power (skills, gear and all) down such that (s)he becomes equal in power to a natively low-level character (something virtually no one seems to be expecting), I don't see how running lowbie content to gain high-level rewards is "earning it", either. As SteveTheCynic mentioned about GW2 earlier in the thread,

 

In short, all you'd be doing is exchanging one reward loophole for another.

 

its actualy even more hilarious now in that through daily rewards you can level a character to lvl 80 without ever stepping a foot into outside world. and since some of those daily rewards award currency that can be traded for at least rare quality gear for your class (there's a bit of a gamble involved, but at the same time - those items are BoE, so you can just sell them on the exchange and buy the items you need instead - at the moment, I'm on a third character being leveled this way - playing through the story is just a tad more pleasant when you are not as worried about accidentally venturing into a territory where the mobs are way too strong for you)

 

but even so... there are mechanics in place in GW2 to make down scaling slightly less annoying. its still annoying, but not nearly as annoying as the reason why it would be particularly annoying in SWTOR.

 

/shrug

 

I'll get what fluff I can mange now, while I still can (becasue fluff is srs business that MUST be "earned" at level with a group, battling rng along with bosses, amirite? )

 

but as a "veteran player" (preorder and all), all I can do is express my thoughts on a direction bioware is taking and why it might not be the best direction to take. whether they listen? is up to them. in the end, I have plenty of games to play - mmo and single player. my backlog is getting so out of control I'm almost physically restraining myself from adding anymore games to it. I would like for SWTOR to continue being one of those games that I'm playing, which is why I'm actualy saying something instead of leaving silently. but... every person like me, there are a LOT more people who just left silently and most of whom never came back all the while influx of new players is not nearly as large as the exodus.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Putting words in his mouth by assuming he wished it were a certain way? So he didn't say this?

 

Or this?

 

Please do explain what words I was putting into his mouth.

 

 

Being that this entire topic is about future incoming content that we may or may not be getting how is he necessarily wishing it were a certain way as opposed to be stating why it may very well be the way it is going to be?

We have all been talking about a change coming to the game and instead of thinking he is talking about that change and what it means, in that the reward will be for doing the challenging content as opposed to just doing the task, you assume he must be talking about how it is now?

 

You put words into his mouth by basically insinuating he is talking about the game in it's current state as opposed to the incoming changes that we are all clearly talking about.

 

Why would he need to wish it be any way when he is referencing incoming changes and agreeing with their merit i.e. world bosses are not meant to be solo'd - if scaling stops this occurring for reward then he isn't really wishing anything, he is stating he approves the future changes.

 

The 3.5 years comment was used to accentuate just how long this game has been supporting something that is supposedly not something that this type of game supports.

 

Need we look over other bugs and what not they've failed to remedy in 3.5 years? For whatever reason it's taken them this long to get around to it but if this information is correct ... then it is being remedied ( or broken if you are of an opposing view ).

 

But since we brought up "this is how it is and so this is how it should remain", to your point on the loophole I would again point out that no matter what the devs may have intended for it originally, having it in the game for this long makes it a feature. So by removing the option to go back and do old content to get rewards you missed, they are removing a long standing feature in the game.

 

Feature or discrepancy? It is detrimental to the grouping aspect of heroics etc. in the game, changing it now will encourage more people of all levels to group together to do content. This might go a long way to improving new players ability to do group content when they get to end game which will be a huge help for GF in 4.0 if they are a bit more clued up on how to go about group content or just playing better in general.

 

 

I would like to get clarification on what exactly you think is changing in this regard, because as I understand it the moment you step onto a planet you will be deleveled to the planet max level + 2, and the same for flashpoints.

 

I really have no idea how it will affect open world play. I'm also not sure if it will be optional which is why in my first post I made it clear that it should indeed be optional so we aren't entirely removing the ability to do the content from people, just a reward that in my opinion they never earned.

 

If it were optional what I imagine happening is simply some change around how the reward works. What I've seen evidence of is rewards coming in for ALL heroics ( and of course FP/op's which they've spoken of in the blog ) that is relevant to the level you are on at the time. E.g. if you are level 50 running a level 10 Heroic you get gear dropping relevant to a level 50.

I imagine if it's optional you won't qualify for any of those rewards.

What I don't know or have heard is how drops will work between synced or non synced etc. and open world.

 

I would prefer not to be forced scaled just for the purposes of traveling to do things like the heroics/wbs/bountys - if I have to work through trash I can't 1 shot to get to the challenging and content I'm interested in then that would be a huge deterrent which is why it should hopefully be optional ( which others have mentioned they have knowledge of it being so in another thread from people playing PTS ).

[sentientomega]

Ultimately, I'll just wait and see what BW:A actually releases; I'll be happy if, whatever content I do, I don't even have think about being worried about being defeated.

 

Our characters are supposed to be heroes, so let them be that and not have to worry about mere minions having an even slight chance of willing.

 

When it call comes down to it, our characters should not be the level 1 Klor'slug type that has a googolplex (10^10^100)% chance of being forever roflstomped by another level 1 klor'slug with 1 HP and all one-shot moves.

 

They're supposed to be legendary people, our chars, and if the above scenario has even a remote chance of happening, we're all doomed.

 

Again, I don't want universal faceroll, but I don't want universal unplayability just because a mere handful of players can faceroll ops solo at level, standing on their head or somersaulting, and would rather die than let things be any easier for anyone else. Give rewards to whoever does it easily, and give EXTRA rewards to those who live and die by the challenge.

Edited September 26, 2015 by sentientomega

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I do like going back and doing "god mode" on flashpoints on occasion with my saber swingers. It is the only time it feels like the movies.

 

Menace - It seems your issue is with the rewards of people soloing flashpoints/Heroics in "god mode". Could you clarify which rewards you think are too much for those who do this? I ask because i'm not sure if you are referring to the completion reward or drops. Either way, I don't see how it matters as the completion monetary reward is way lower than anything else I could do at my current level. The drops are the level of the Flashpoint/Heroic. So almost everything gets sold, and again not for very much. The only items I keep are the ones I attempted the flashpoint/Heroic to get, usually an cosmetic armor look or weapon. I usually have to do them a couple of times to actually get the piece I want. Is your argument that I should have to be at level and group with other so I have a chance of getting the item rather than running it myself a few times overleveled and not having to roll for it? I guess I am trying to understand what rewards (monetary, cosmetic?) do you think being so great that it should be denied to anyone over the level because it is too easy?

 

It's not so much I have a problem with what they give you as much as I do with the design in that it is detrimental to group content in this game. Given the option on other toons etc. people know they can do it later in god mode and know they miss out on nothing by doing so thus have no interest in doing it when it's challenging ( for whatever reason ).

 

Also I like the concept of having rewards for doing something that is challenging, god mode goes against this opinion I have. Whilst if you god mode it doesn't really affect me ( other than some argument to be had around the economics of what you can earn doin it vs dailies etc. you can ideally only do once a day so you can end up in a situation where those with more time up there sleeve can get a significant financial advantage over those that don't that's significantly higher than if that content weren't there to reward them in such a way ) I still don't personally like it.

 

It's also worth pointing out that in the discussion of a feature that is unofficial that the same unofficial information shows that there will be guaranteed rewards now as opposed to rolls which at least removes that part of the argument if it's indeed correct ( the "I don't group because I hate rolling and getting nothing" ).

[MillionsKNives]

Being that this entire topic is about future incoming content that we may or may not be getting how is he necessarily wishing it were a certain way as opposed to be stating why it may very well be the way it is going to be?

We have all been talking about a change coming to the game and instead of thinking he is talking about that change and what it means, in that the reward will be for doing the challenging content as opposed to just doing the task, you assume he must be talking about how it is now?

 

You put words into his mouth by basically insinuating he is talking about the game in it's current state as opposed to the incoming changes that we are all clearly talking about.

 

Why would he need to wish it be any way when he is referencing incoming changes and agreeing with their merit i.e. world bosses are not meant to be solo'd - if scaling stops this occurring for reward then he isn't really wishing anything, he is stating he approves the future changes.

 

So basically you're not even trying to say that I misrepresented what he said, only that I was clarifying a point that didn't need to be clarified? Okie dokie.

 

But still it's worth mentioning, because not only do we not know how this will end up being implemented, the way it currently works is the complete opposite of what "should be", and there are those who think that it shouldn't be changed to how it "should be".

 

Need we look over other bugs and what not they've failed to remedy in 3.5 years? For whatever reason it's taken them this long to get around to it but if this information is correct ... then it is being remedied ( or broken if you are of an opposing view ).

 

This is not a bug. They have specifically made it so that content that is low enough can't harm you. The game mechanics explicitly call for this situation to happen, so unless the entire leveling system and how stats works is "bugged" then this is actually the intended behavior.

 

Feature or discrepancy? It is detrimental to the grouping aspect of heroics etc. in the game, changing it now will encourage more people of all levels to group together to do content. This might go a long way to improving new players ability to do group content when they get to end game which will be a huge help for GF in 4.0 if they are a bit more clued up on how to go about group content or just playing better in general.

 

If what you say below is true and you support it being optional, then how is being able to overlevel heroics right now, or even world bosses a discrepancy? If it was a real problem then you wouldn't want to continue to allow it, no?

 

I really have no idea how it will affect open world play. I'm also not sure if it will be optional which is why in my first post I made it clear that it should indeed be optional so we aren't entirely removing the ability to do the content from people, just a reward that in my opinion they never earned.

 

If it were optional what I imagine happening is simply some change around how the reward works. What I've seen evidence of is rewards coming in for ALL heroics ( and of course FP/op's which they've spoken of in the blog ) that is relevant to the level you are on at the time. E.g. if you are level 50 running a level 10 Heroic you get gear dropping relevant to a level 50.

I imagine if it's optional you won't qualify for any of those rewards.

What I don't know or have heard is how drops will work between synced or non synced etc. and open world.

 

I would prefer not to be forced scaled just for the purposes of traveling to do things like the heroics/wbs/bountys - if I have to work through trash I can't 1 shot to get to the challenging and content I'm interested in then that would be a huge deterrent which is why it should hopefully be optional ( which others have mentioned they have knowledge of it being so in another thread from people playing PTS ).

 

Since you're just talking about a difference in rewards here while retaining the ability to do the content at your real level if you so choose, then I'd be interested in knowing what kind of rewards system you really want. I think a lot of the backlash about the idea that those who are over leveling the content shouldn't get rewarded (remember this is in the context of a thread titled "Why scaling should not be optional") comes from the desire to preserve the rewards that are currently given for them. I'm personally not too worried about missing out on a level 65 thumbs-up that's handed out upon completing the mission at-level, I'm worried about losing access to that cool looking level 20 piece that either drops or is rewarded from the mission turn in on the live servers.

 

Something like this makes more sense as a meta-system than an actual direct change to the heroics and such, kind of like conquests is. You pick up a mission that says "you must complete X heroics while using the scaling system to qualify for some super cool level [insert your level here] reward".

[Faelandaea]

Nah all way out of proportion. Yes, there are plenty of people who prefer to solo everything if possible, even if they have to wait to do so, but there is an equal amount of people that prefer group content. It's an MMO, so you know most of the people logged in prefer to actually interact with people and do group activities.

 

I have played MMO games that have both content which can be done entirely solo during the leveling process and group/raid end-game content, and there was never a shortage of people seeking groups for the leveling content.

 

I actually wish they'd make the low level flash-points have a solo mode (with the GSI droid) also, but I know that would take a total re-write and is not efficient from a developer standpoint. Fortunately, however, they confirmed in the stream today that they fully intend to keep all future flash-points with the option of going Solo or as a group. This is a good thing - as it gives options. And correct me if I am wrong but don;t the solo Flash-points scale with you?

Edited September 26, 2015 by Faelandaea

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So basically you're not even trying to say that I misrepresented what he said, only that I was clarifying a point that didn't need to be clarified? Okie dokie.

 

I point out that the entire topic we are talking about is future changes as was my interpretation of what Rafa was talking about and you try relate that to him supposedly referring to the game in it's current state ( future vs current, quite a difference ) and now I'm somehow not saying you misinterpreted what he said? Right...

 

But still it's worth mentioning, because not only do we not know how this will end up being implemented, the way it currently works is the complete opposite of what "should be", and there are those who think that it shouldn't be changed to how it "should be".

 

What is worth mentioning exactly? That you tried to seemingly belittle him by stating that the game in it's current state isn't how it is but how he wishes it was when everyone is clearly talking about future, unannounced changes?

 

We get how it is now and can see how it works now - it's how it will work in the future and whether or not people are pro or con it ( and why ) that matters in relation to this topic.

 

This is not a bug. They have specifically made it so that content that is low enough can't harm you. The game mechanics explicitly call for this situation to happen, so unless the entire leveling system and how stats works is "bugged" then this is actually the intended behavior.

 

It's only intended until they change it though. If they change it now does that mean they intended it all along or it was an unforeseen consequence ( solo Heroics/FPs for their rewards ) of allowing to have the open world play not scaled ( as it would be pretty damn annoying scaling open world )?

 

I would call this change a fix personally.

 

 

If what you say below is true and you support it being optional, then how is being able to overlevel heroics right now, or even world bosses a discrepancy? If it was a real problem then you wouldn't want to continue to allow it, no?

 

I don't care what you do, I just don't think you should be rewarded for it the same as someone who is doing it as it was ideally intended and that is in a challenging matter. The optional fix as I understand it so far is only removing the carrot/reward for soloing the content, it's not blatantly stopping you doing it and if that's what Bioware does then we can say they didn't intend for the rewards to be as such and just took a damn long time fixing it.

 

 

Since you're just talking about a difference in rewards here while retaining the ability to do the content at your real level if you so choose, then I'd be interested in knowing what kind of rewards system you really want. I think a lot of the backlash about the idea that those who are over leveling the content shouldn't get rewarded (remember this is in the context of a thread titled "Why scaling should not be optional") comes from the desire to preserve the rewards that are currently given for them. I'm personally not too worried about missing out on a level 65 thumbs-up that's handed out upon completing the mission at-level, I'm worried about losing access to that cool looking level 20 piece that either drops or is rewarded from the mission turn in on the live servers.

 

Something like this makes more sense as a meta-system than an actual direct change to the heroics and such, kind of like conquests is. You pick up a mission that says "you must complete X heroics while using the scaling system to qualify for some super cool level [insert your level here] reward".

 

Personally I would like a system of "here are you rewards for doing this unscaled and here are the rewards for doing this scaled" set by Bioware.

Basically something that rewards those who want to take on the greater challenge in the content accordingly vs those that are pretty much just running it in god mode.

If they entirely removed rewards for doing it in god mode, I wouldn't be opposed to that either.

 

I'm still waiting for someone who is opposed to reward removal give a valid reason on why they should be rewarded for effectively doing something on god mode. Key word being reward.

 

So far all I've seen I believe is "because that's how it is now", that's not really answering the question to me - what case can be made to Bioware right now to change their mind justify why you should get a reward for doing god mode content? How do you deserve it?

 

Also let's not forget this might actually help with some of those pesky gold farmers depending on how they implement this change in open world also. Anything that makes their botting for income that little bit harder to achieve is good news to me also.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Nah all way out of proportion. Yes, there are plenty of people who prefer to solo everything if possible, even if they have to wait to do so, but there is an equal amount of people that prefer group content. It's an MMO, so you know most of the people logged in prefer to actually interact with people and do group activities.

 

I have played MMO games that have both content which can be done entirely solo during the leveling process and group/raid end-game content, and there was never a shortage of people seeking groups for the leveling content.

 

I actually wish they'd make the low level flash-points have a solo mode (with the GSI droid) also, but I know that would take a total re-write and is not efficient from a developer standpoint. Fortunately, however, they confirmed in the stream today that they fully intend to keep all future flash-points with the option of going Solo or as a group. This is a good thing - as it gives options. And correct me if I am wrong but don;t the solo Flash-points scale with you?

 

Hmm what stream was this? Just had a quick look on Dulfy and couldn't find any summary or anything so do you have a summary of changes discussed in a stream?

 

Yes I believe they scale with you, seems they will start from level 10 now which is ... strange being that they are story based flashpoints and will be totally out of context for anyone running them at 10.

I guess if they are going to add solo modes for all future flashpoints then all future flashpoints will be story based or part of the main story which is cool.

[Faelandaea]

Twitch. Still going on I think - all weekend?

 

http://www.twitch.tv/swtor

Fallen Empire @ TwitchCon Sep. 25-26

 

WHEN: Friday, Sep. 25th – Saturday, Sep.26th (10AM – 6PM PDT / 5PM – 1AM GMT)

 

WHAT: Join developers and guest streamers for a first look at Chapter 1: The Hunt in Knights of the Fallen Empire!

 

Don’t miss the dramatic opening of The Outlander storyline starting at Level 60 and prepare to embark on an iconic story-driven adventure where your choices determine the fate of the galaxy!

 

Friday, September 25:

10:00 AM (PDT): Lulaboo

11:00 AM: Towelliee

12:00 PM: ZombiUnicorn

2:00 PM: LadyInsanity

3:00 PM: Josh Harrison (Amazon Games)

 

Saturday, September 26:

10:00 AM (PDT): LobosJR

12:00 PM: JediConsular

2:00 PM: Aureylian

3:00 PM: JoblessGamers

 

I think any solo-based content will always be story based. Currently there is no solo mode for HM or higher, which is fine as well. When it comes to HM and higher difficulties, that SHOULD be group only content and that's what I think should always scale and be locked in as group-only content.

 

The reason I support solo modes for story level content is so someone does not have to rely on a group to finish the story. A couple of MMO games I play do this, and it is annoying when you have your own schedule, and are a casual gamer with FT job/school, etc., and you can;t progress because the queues are dead or long because you happen to be playing DPS and not tank. I say always enable a player to enjoy the full story on his/her own terms, and then get with groups if they want extra goodies and gear that come with extra challenge.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Max_Killjoy]

I really believe that going back to do things will still be fun, because I believe that we will still have access to all our learned abilities, and our stat scaling will be at the max level for said area. So you will still be more powerful than you were when you first encountered said area.

 

Granted, that's just me assuming how it will work.

 

What if what someone finds fun is occasionally going back to stomp through something to see the content?

 

What if what someone finds fun is that their max-level SI/SW is vastly more powerful than the things that first challenged them on Korriban, and it shows when they go back there?

 

That sort of thing will be gone to some degree depending on if/how this is implemented.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Upirlikhyi]

Nobody knows what or how the scaling will be implmented yet...

 

so everyone please take a fricken chill pill about it...

 

this thread was started to discuss the pros and cons of it.....it was not intended to end up in a big debate on solo play vs group play

 

no was it intended for people to assume that everyone who is in favor of this wants to stop solo play...

 

so enough already.....

 

just fricken let this thread die since its turned into a cesspool of insults and such....

 

i am starting to regret thinking maybe once a rational debate without that crap could happen

[Max_Killjoy]

Nobody knows what or how the scaling will be implmented yet...

 

so everyone please take a fricken chill pill about it...

 

this thread was started to discuss the pros and cons of it.....it was not intended to end up in a big debate on solo play vs group play

 

no was it intended for people to assume that everyone who is in favor of this wants to stop solo play...

 

so enough already.....

 

just fricken let this thread die since its turned into a cesspool of insults and such....

 

i am starting to regret thinking maybe once a rational debate without that crap could happen

 

Honestly, the "you must play group!" crowd is going to turn any thread about this sort of thing into an personal attack on anyone who is having bagwrongfun by not grouping "enough".

[Upirlikhyi]

Honestly, the "you must play group!" crowd is going to turn any thread about this sort of thing into an personal attack on anyone who is having bagwrongfun by not grouping "enough".

 

ENOUGH....it was by both sides.

 

just let the thread die already....

[Max_Killjoy]

ENOUGH....it was by both sides.

 

just let the thread die already....

 

Go back and read the threads about this sort of thing carefully... it's not the people saying "please leave us be, we're having fun, you go have fun your way, and we'll all be OK" who light the fires.

 

It's almost as if those of us who go through our average session of SWTOR without queing up for something or spamming "LFG for ________" on multiple planets each are perceived as an existential threat by the "group uber alles" / "It's an MMO (and never mind the RPG part), you HAVE to group!" people.

[Upirlikhyi]

Go back and read the threads about this sort of thing carefully... it's not the people saying "please leave us be, we're having fun, you go have fun your way, and we'll all be OK" who light the fires.

 

It's almost as if those of us who go through our average session of SWTOR without queing up for something or spamming "LFG for ________" on multiple planets each are perceived as an existential threat by the "group uber alles" / "It's an MMO (and never mind the RPG part), you HAVE to group!" people.

 

i don't care anymore at all

 

i want this thread to die....its ran its course so i am asking for people to just let it die

 

if i knew how to get it locked i would

[Warrgames]

i don't care anymore at all

 

i want this thread to die....its ran its course so i am asking for people to just let it die

 

if i knew how to get it locked i would

 

Simply walk away from it. No one making you take part in this thread. This thread won't just die. The play my way group and the choice group will continue going back and forth.

[Faelandaea]

i don't care anymore at all

 

i want this thread to die....its ran its course so i am asking for people to just let it die

 

if i knew how to get it locked i would

 

You already know how to unsubscribe from the thread or you would not be a user of a forum. I do not know of any user of any forum at all anywhere that does not know what the huge, bold, "UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS THREAD" button means.

 

No one cares if you want a forum thread to die. If the topic is good enough, people will keep discussing it.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Sarfux]

stop reading too much into this until we got more information.

[Rafaman]

i don't care anymore at all

 

i want this thread to die....its ran its course so i am asking for people to just let it die

 

if i knew how to get it locked i would

 

Don't worry. It will fade away. My bump won't help I know, but this type of thing will fade for a while and resurface again once we get more information.

 

You are right, we don't really know and this could all be a moot point. On the other hand, if they do scale open world content, what fun the forums will be prior to the xpac launch. But then, after a while, it will fade away again as people adjust and accept it or just walk away.

 

Either way, don't feel responsible for this. Threads take a life of their own and the good ones go well beyond the OP's original intent.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Rafaman

[Sarfux]

Very good post Rafaman. I'll leave it at that

[branmakmuffin]

stop reading too much into this until we got more information.

Reading too much into things is what many players do. That's how we got the thread about whether or not the commendation name change, with no conversation rate, means that our comm totals are being zeroed.

Edited September 26, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[MillionsKNives]

I point out that the entire topic we are talking about is future changes as was my interpretation of what Rafa was talking about and you try relate that to him supposedly referring to the game in it's current state ( future vs current, quite a difference ) and now I'm somehow not saying you misinterpreted what he said? Right...

 

 

 

What is worth mentioning exactly? That you tried to seemingly belittle him by stating that the game in it's current state isn't how it is but how he wishes it was when everyone is clearly talking about future, unannounced changes?

 

We get how it is now and can see how it works now - it's how it will work in the future and whether or not people are pro or con it ( and why ) that matters in relation to this topic.

 

I'm not going to continue having my discussion with Rafa with you. Getting tired of repeating myself and you ignoring my reasons so that you can just label it misrepresentation. Rafa can fight his own battles.

 

It's only intended until they change it though. If they change it now does that mean they intended it all along or it was an unforeseen consequence ( solo Heroics/FPs for their rewards ) of allowing to have the open world play not scaled ( as it would be pretty damn annoying scaling open world )?

 

I would call this change a fix personally.

 

If it's only their intent until they change it then their intent has no real bearing on this discussion, as it apparently changes on a whim. Only the pros and cons of the change matter. So we can stop bringing up "intent" as a form of argument.

 

I don't care what you do, I just don't think you should be rewarded for it the same as someone who is doing it as it was ideally intended and that is in a challenging matter. The optional fix as I understand it so far is only removing the carrot/reward for soloing the content, it's not blatantly stopping you doing it and if that's what Bioware does then we can say they didn't intend for the rewards to be as such and just took a damn long time fixing it.

 

The fact that they let it go on this long says that they did intend for it to happen, but now they may think differently, in my opinion. You're just guessing at their intent and using that to try to prove a point.

 

Personally I would like a system of "here are you rewards for doing this unscaled and here are the rewards for doing this scaled" set by Bioware.

Basically something that rewards those who want to take on the greater challenge in the content accordingly vs those that are pretty much just running it in god mode.

If they entirely removed rewards for doing it in god mode, I wouldn't be opposed to that either.

 

What exactly they would do with the rewards would be what is important in your scenario. They could do it well, such as having non-related bonuses for those who do it at level, or they could do it badly, such as rewarding nothing.

 

I'm still waiting for someone who is opposed to reward removal give a valid reason on why they should be rewarded for effectively doing something on god mode. Key word being reward.

 

So far all I've seen I believe is "because that's how it is now", that's not really answering the question to me - what case can be made to Bioware right now to change their mind justify why you should get a reward for doing god mode content? How do you deserve it?

 

Also let's not forget this might actually help with some of those pesky gold farmers depending on how they implement this change in open world also. Anything that makes their botting for income that little bit harder to achieve is good news to me also.

 

People have given reasons, whether you care to acknowledge it or not.

 

It's part of a progression system that as you get better you're able to go back and do things that you couldn't do before, and that includes getting the same reward for it that you would have otherwise. Either way, I still did the content, why does how I did it matter for my reward? "Sir I need you to kill some bad guys for me, could you help? Woah now, you killed them far too easily and too quickly, you don't deserve this hat I was going to give you."

 

What's the point of levels if flexing your muscles actually punishes you? What's the actual progression if you're forced to always fight things at your level?

 

This is how pretty much every RPG works. You start off weak, you get a bit stronger, you get the ability to stomp early areas for stuff you missed.

 

That's the fun for some people, and it's also the best shot they have at getting some of those rewards. They're not interested in the challenge, they want to do the content and get the rewards with ease. So you get the option, you can do it at level (or scaled to level) and have it be a challenge, or you can do it once you've beefed up and stomp those lowbie mobs that are nothing to you now at your new power.