Listen to the hardcore players.

[Your_dominus]

mmorpgs for hardcore gamers usally wind up mega flopping in less than a month.

 

And an mmorpg with nothing or little for the " hardcore" will flop, when the word spreads.

 

But what do you mean "less than a month"? The OP isn't saying make it hard core ONLY. He is saying raiders are not just simply " the 1%".

It's more complex than that.

Ignore end game raiders, and a nasty cascading rumor will begin in the media and community.

Tor will become a joke.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Your_dominus

[Merrinset]

This thread delivers.

[Fyuria]

This is sooooo true! And quit picking on me just cuz im a little chunky!

 

This is the same story with every new MMO. When MMOs first came out, they were all "hardcore" by nature. But now a lot of us are all grown up with kids hanging off of us and jobs (a job is what some of us have to do to make money hardcore peeps) we don't have the time for leets hardz corez .... stuff.

 

So now many new games are geared for the "casual" gamer. You can't take that away so give it up. (see my above comment on a "job" which means money for the MMO industry)

.

 

This is so true, I know when I was younger I wasn't hardcore but I kinda wondered what it would be like to see all these end game adventures and wanted to go where they went.

 

But as I grew up and got job and family responsibilities, these things no longer matter to me anymore and I just play for fun with the few hours of free time I get.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Fyuria

[Viera]

I do not know how to explain it any clearer.

 

It seems i just cannot get it over, I just keep reading the same replies that are refering to the point im trying to make as wrong.

 

The devs NEED to cater to the top 1%.

 

Why?

 

So the players in the 1% bracket below keep playing to achieve what the players in the 1% bracket above them do.

 

Then the players in the 1% bracket below them keep playing to achieve the same or as much as possible as the ones above.

 

Then the players in the 1% bracket below them .. . etc

 

 

It trickles down, as the game moves forward NERF the content so its easier BUT not before new content is released to challenge to the TOP 1% again.

 

*************************************************

 

I hope that is clearer. I AM NOT ASKING people to worship the top 1% I am not asking people to cater to elitism or that the devs cater to elitism.

 

Im just asking the Devs to listen to the highest acheivers in the game, and keep them interested, all the rest of us below the top 1% then will follow our respective peers.

 

I for example would place myself in a roughly 70-80% bracket of gamer, lets just say 75% for arguments sake, I look up too my peers and friends in the 1% bracket above me. I want to complete the achievements they have.

 

I want to get the loot they have, its not easy and it takes time, but I do strive for this gear becuase they have it, becuase I enjoy playing the game with them. Now they in turn have peers and friends that play in a higher bracket than them.

 

Thus there is a chain, an unbroken link to the top players.

 

>Implying anyone cares about precentage brackets besides you.

 

P.S - Trickle Down Economics didn't work in real-life, either.

[Vetorept]

OP thinks he is hardcore, elite and uber. His Momma told him so.

[luchiferchuga]

I do not know how to explain it any clearer.

 

It seems i just cannot get it over, I just keep reading the same replies that are refering to the point im trying to make as wrong.

 

The devs NEED to cater to the top 1%.

 

Why?

 

So the players in the 1% bracket below keep playing to achieve what the players in the 1% bracket above them do.

 

Then the players in the 1% bracket below them keep playing to achieve the same or as much as possible as the ones above.

 

Then the players in the 1% bracket below them .. . etc

 

 

It trickles down, as the game moves forward NERF the content so its easier BUT not before new content is released to challenge to the TOP 1% again.

 

*************************************************

 

I hope that is clearer. I AM NOT ASKING people to worship the top 1% I am not asking people to cater to elitism or that the devs cater to elitism.

 

Im just asking the Devs to listen to the highest acheivers in the game, and keep them interested, all the rest of us below the top 1% then will follow our respective peers.

 

I for example would place myself in a roughly 70-80% bracket of gamer, lets just say 75% for arguments sake, I look up too my peers and friends in the 1% bracket above me. I want to complete the achievements they have.

 

I want to get the loot they have, its not easy and it takes time, but I do strive for this gear becuase they have it, becuase I enjoy playing the game with them. Now they in turn have peers and friends that play in a higher bracket than them.

 

Thus there is a chain, an unbroken link to the top players.

 

I also cant be more clear in my responses to you.

 

There will be always better and always worse than you. You dont need raiders.

 

I will tell you this for a second time: In a world full of casuals, there will be the bad casual player, the good casual player, and the best casual player. The bad will look at the good and the good will look at the best, and so on and so forth.

 

Clearly SW:ToR isnt the game for you. So please go pester the Hello Kitty Online forums demanding that they should show more blood and less fur.

[Your_dominus]

OP thinks he is hardcore, elite and uber. His Momma told him so.

Responder thinks meaningless, insulting jibberish is valuable and usefull. WoW told him so.

Did your eyes glaze over? did you even read it?

Lemme guess...TL;DR?

[Scan]

o.O Seriously?!? I've seen ego-strokes, self-pandering, elitist thought processes in my time but THIS takes the cookie, chief.

 

I don't care WHAT anyone else does regarding 'achievement', HOW they do it, WHEN they do it, WHY they do it or WHO does it. Yay for you (or whomever) but these so-called "percent" castes are a load of bunk. Maybe some people DO think/act/behave in that manner, but as I can only speak for myself, I shall do so...

 

I'm not a lemming. I could play this game (and do often) not having a single **** to give if there is another living person playing. I never drank the Kool-Aid of our school years that tried like hell to establish a social pecking order as the "fundamental" truth to all things.

 

Achieve or don't. I don't care. Be first or not. I don't care. Not a SINGLE person here outside those I know from my guild are in any way, shape or form important to me beyond offering the same sort of interpersonal respect that I would have given to me, nothing more or less. So I feel quite comfortable in saying that your wanna-be universal truth put forth in that keyboard vomit of an OP has about as much support as a rational conceptualization of MMO social interaction as the Titanic's ultimate chances of successfully arriving at New York.

 

Have fun with that though.

 

Just.....wow...heh.

 

You are in a very small minority, most people aspire to their peers achievements, sure there is always loners or people that do not give a **** what others do.

 

But they are not the regular person, most people are social animals.

[Fyuria]

I also cant be more clear in my responses to you.

 

There will be always better and always worse than you. You dont need raiders.

 

I will tell you this for a second time: In a world full of casuals, there will be the bad casual player, the good casual player, and the best casual player. The bad will look at the good and the good will look at the best, and so on and so forth.

 

Clearly SW:ToR isnt the game for you. So please go pester the Hello Kitty Online forums demanding that they should show more skin and less fur.

 

I don't know why I read it as that until I did a second take and saw you said blood instead.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Fyuria

[Maduece]

Someones a bitter, Pre BC wow eliteist. Can anyone guess who?

[Fyuria]

But they are not the regular person, most people are social animals.

 

While I agree with this, as luchiferchuga said earlier that social aspect would come into play even if there was no 'hardcore' players at all in the game.

[Viera]

You are in a very small minority, most people aspire to their peers achievements, sure there is always loners or people that do not give a **** what others do.

 

But they are not the regular person, most people are social animals.

 

No, you'll find that person isn't in the 'minority'. You'll actually find that they are pretty much the majority of MMO players. As you so elegantly pointed out, there is a 1% of hardcore elites. Now assuming the 2%, 3%, all the way down to the oh...15% work the way you say they do (as that is believable, since they obviously achieve to get to that point).

 

That still leaves oh....85% of people who just do not care. Yep.

[SnoggyMack]

OP thinks he is hardcore, elite and uber. His Momma told him so.

 

She didn't tell him she probably just texted him. He's kind of busy being uber and was raiding at the time, nahmean?

[Zmidponk]

The OP is right, the devs should listen to the hard-core elite - as much as they listen to any other segment of their customer base. And no more. The simple fact of the matter is that there is nothing that makes this 'hardcore elite' special in any way, so their wants and needs should not be given priority, but neither should they be utterly disregarded. From the official word on this subject, Bioware already realise this.

[Merrinset]

The OP is right, the devs should listen to the hard-core elite - as much as they listen to any other segment of their customer base. And no more. The simple fact of the matter is that there is nothing that makes this 'hardcore elite' special in any way, so their wants and needs should not be given priority, but neither should they be utterly disregarded. From the official word on this subject, Bioware already realise this.

 

Zmidponk for president.

[Cancrizans]

From my experience, the so-called "hardcore" gamers are the type of people who rush through all the content that people have spent years working on, and end up constantly foaming at the mouth for the developers to churn out content at an ever increasing rate to satisfy their insane and addiction type playstyle.

 

They generally have very little appreciation for anything or anybody that doesn't fit in with their ridiculous desire to turn everything into a race to see who finishes whatever first, and IMO that goes against the core of what an MMO is about.

 

In fact, this type of player has a negative impact on every game they are involved in, they ruin communities, disrespect the hard work that goes into creating a lifelike and immersive world, and turn what should be a social and imaginative activity into just another dumb hypercompetitive environment.

 

I have time and time again and will continue to say that such people are way better off playing either FPS or competitive RTS games, because those formats specifically cater to such mindsets.

 

MMOs simply are not designed to function in that way, and when developers try to make them, it ruins the game.

 

So in reality I think the OP is completely wrong.

[Aesri]

You are in a very small minority, most people aspire to their peers achievements, sure there is always loners or people that do not give a **** what others do.

 

But they are not the regular person, most people are social animals.

 

Hold up....I'm not a social creature like the rest of the species?

 

Just because I don't subscribe to that convoluted high-schoolish social ladder syndrome? I'm very social and always have been. However, I learned a long, LONG time ago that such hackneyed herd-behavior is something that had it's place in evolution of the species...but we're not hunter/gatherers anymore. Nobody gets to eat first and I don't have to worry about being taken by the "alpha".

 

Also, I'm by no means so poorly represented by number to be called one of the few, either. That's the great thing about social evolution....it happens at lightspeed compared to biological evolution. Just takes one of the peasants actually looking up to see that the king is not only naked, but that the royal barber gave him a neon-pink mohawk and braided his nether-hair.

[Korizan]

From my experience, the so-called "hardcore" gamers are the type of people who rush through all the content that people have spent years working on, and end up constantly foaming at the mouth for the developers to churn out content at an ever increasing rate to satisfy their insane and addiction type playstyle.

 

They generally have very little appreciation for anything or anybody that doesn't fit in with their ridiculous desire to turn everything into a race to see who finishes whatever first, and IMO that goes against the core of what an MMO is about.

 

In fact, this type of player has a negative impact on every game they are involved in, they ruin communities, disrespect the hard work that goes into creating a lifelike and immersive world, and turn what should be a social and imaginative activity into just another dumb hypercompetitive environment.

 

I have time and time again and will continue to say that such people are way better off playing either FPS or competitive RTS games, because those formats specifically cater to such mindsets.

 

MMOs simply are not designed to function in that way, and when developers try to make them, it ruins the game.

 

So in reality I think the OP is completely wrong.

 

This in a nutshell.

[Darka]

Hi Im Player X

I am in Play Style Y and believe the Devs are catering to much to Style Z

Now everyone knows Y is the top style, and Y should be listened too because we are the best, the priority and we make the game a success, so Devs cater to us instead of Style Z

 

Thanks

Players of Y

 

*

Insert Casual, Hardcore, Raider, PvPer instead of Y

[Aesri]

Expediently said, Darka.

[Fyuria]

Hi Im Player X

I am in Play Style Y and believe the Devs are catering to much to Style Z

Now everyone knows Y is the top style, and Y should be listened too because we are the best, the priority and we make the game a success, so Devs cater to us instead of Style Z

 

Thanks

Players of Y

 

*

Insert Casual, Hardcore, Raider, PvPer instead of Y

 

Short,sweet and to the point not bad, I like it.

but then I was taught about K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid)

Edited December 26, 2011 by Fyuria

[alkanterah]

You are completely misreading the points.

 

Im not asking you to worship the top 1%.

 

You're right, you're saying they already do. Also that you claim to define what the top 1% is according to some metric based on a type of content not everyone plays the game to experience. Flip it around and your argument makes as much sense as saying we all look up to the bottom 1%.

[Malkosha]

From my experience, the so-called "hardcore" gamers are the type of people who rush through all the content that people have spent years working on, and end up constantly foaming at the mouth for the developers to churn out content at an ever increasing rate to satisfy their insane and addiction type playstyle.

 

They generally have very little appreciation for anything or anybody that doesn't fit in with their ridiculous desire to turn everything into a race to see who finishes whatever first, and IMO that goes against the core of what an MMO is about.

 

In fact, this type of player has a negative impact on every game they are involved in, they ruin communities, disrespect the hard work that goes into creating a lifelike and immersive world, and turn what should be a social and imaginative activity into just another dumb hypercompetitive environment.

 

I have time and time again and will continue to say that such people are way better off playing either FPS or competitive RTS games, because those formats specifically cater to such mindsets.

 

MMOs simply are not designed to function in that way, and when developers try to make them, it ruins the game.

 

So in reality I think the OP is completely wrong.

 

 

 

Another +1 for this post.

[belialle]

From my experience, the so-called "hardcore" gamers are the type of people who rush through all the content that people have spent years working on, and end up constantly foaming at the mouth for the developers to churn out content at an ever increasing rate to satisfy their insane and addiction type playstyle.

 

They generally have very little appreciation for anything or anybody that doesn't fit in with their ridiculous desire to turn everything into a race to see who finishes whatever first, and IMO that goes against the core of what an MMO is about.

 

In fact, this type of player has a negative impact on every game they are involved in, they ruin communities, disrespect the hard work that goes into creating a lifelike and immersive world, and turn what should be a social and imaginative activity into just another dumb hypercompetitive environment.

 

I have time and time again and will continue to say that such people are way better off playing either FPS or competitive RTS games, because those formats specifically cater to such mindsets.

 

MMOs simply are not designed to function in that way, and when developers try to make them, it ruins the game.

 

So in reality I think the OP is completely wrong.

 

 

I wish I could vote this post up. Good insight.

 

I've been in "hard core" guilds, and I've been in casual guilds with people who, despite having lives outside of the game, were able to complete end game stuff in a competent manner. Guess which group was more fun to play with?

Edited December 26, 2011 by belialle

[alkanterah]

From my experience, the so-called "hardcore" gamers are the type of people who rush through all the content that people have spent years working on, and end up constantly foaming at the mouth for the developers to churn out content at an ever increasing rate to satisfy their insane and addiction type playstyle.

 

They generally have very little appreciation for anything or anybody that doesn't fit in with their ridiculous desire to turn everything into a race to see who finishes whatever first, and IMO that goes against the core of what an MMO is about.

 

In fact, this type of player has a negative impact on every game they are involved in, they ruin communities, disrespect the hard work that goes into creating a lifelike and immersive world, and turn what should be a social and imaginative activity into just another dumb hypercompetitive environment.

 

I have time and time again and will continue to say that such people are way better off playing either FPS or competitive RTS games, because those formats specifically cater to such mindsets.

 

MMOs simply are not designed to function in that way, and when developers try to make them, it ruins the game.

 

So in reality I think the OP is completely wrong.

 

Grats, you've won this thread.