Nico Okarr's Coat - What a disappointment

[TheSeventhJedi]

Must...have...restraint....oh f* it

 

"THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!"

 

Well played, sir.

[LordSkyKnight]

It seems like the apologist crowd, including the 'I QUIT Forever!' shill are back at it again and failing to understand basic logic.

 

Of all people Andryah 'I quit! because of BioWare's lies/CSM debacle' should be honest and _consistent_ and accept that people can be upset when they are sold a bill of goods that is not what was promised.

 

Oh my gawd, I laughed so hard when I read that.

 

Anyway.

 

People have been trained.....(cough) conditioned to accept the little trickery that is typical when dealing with merchants. It's funny watching them defend the practices.

[Joesixxpack]

Yes in a sense. We just don't know if it's the good troublemaker variant or the bad troublemaker variant. (Basically one that has a dyable chest plate and one that doesn't. because the chest plate is mostly covered up in the promotional picture.

 

Still a Troublemaker reskin though isn't it

 

attempttoqualifypls.webm

[TheSeventhJedi]

I could take or leave the inducements.

 

*snip

 

The word you're looking for is "incentive," btw.

[Aeristash]

*snip*

 

Wait, lemme get this straight... Bioware said they'd provide you with nicos duster in general if you were subbed on x date, you took it upon yourself to presume you were getting the same outfit in a five year old trailer & some google pics and now you want your right to rage because your presumption of biowares unspoken artistic promissory note didn't come to fruition like you imagined? Scuse me a moment... Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! Oh wow I haven't laughed that hard in a long time Thanks.

[Joesixxpack]

The word you're looking for is "incentive," btw.

 

They're right in the context of their post. Lemme get unnecessarily interwebz nerdy for a sec:

 

in·duce·ment

inˈd(y)o͞osmənt/

noun

noun: inducement; plural noun: inducements

 

a thing that persuades or influences someone to do something.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Still a Troublemaker reskin though isn't it

 

attempttoqualifypls.webm

 

Yes, you are right but I was simply pointing out if we don't know if it's bad trouble maker

 

http://tor-fashion.com/troublemaker/

 

or

 

good troublemaker yet.

 

http://tor-fashion.com/subversive/

 

Dye wise.

[mrsrachelm]

I knew a long time a long time ago that this is what would happen. I'm surprised at everyone's surprise.

[Andryah]

Of all people Andryah 'I quit! because of BioWare's lies/CSM debacle' should be honest and _consistent_ and accept that people can be upset when they are sold a bill of goods that is not what was promised.

 

Oh how cute.. a call-out post... out of context and incorrect.. but nice try

 

People spent money they would not have to obtain an item they are not receiving.

 

LOL... you mean people subscribed soley to get the duster? So.. these people are not actually playing the game then..... just subscribing to get digital fluffy bunny incentives. I guess it takes all kinds. Then again... we both know you are simply conflating for convenience here so you can go nutz in the forum and go on railing on Bioware.

 

They are getting a different item. One less desirable.

 

Really.. show me where exactly they specify the details of the Duster. I'll wait.

 

But let's get pragmatic here for a moment and put down the rhetoric.... Sorry to break it too you (not really) but in MMOs ALL content is subject to change/revision at any time and in any manner. Or are you that oblivious to the unannounced changes to gear made in this game since launch???? Suck it up or move on IMO.

 

Its not 'Free' because the ONLY way to obtain it was a cash transaction with BioWare by a certain date. If they missed that date, they do not receive the inducement. It is a specific request by the seller to purchase a product from them and in return receive an additional bonus. But cash HAS to change hands, so it is indeed not free.

 

That my dear is called a promotional incentive. Do X and we will give you Y for free.

 

The subscription costs money and is not free. The Duster however, has no price tag and cannot be purchased. It is however a promotional incentive to subscribers. There IS a difference, except maybe for alleged mouth breathers who are only subscribing to collect digital perks they will likely discard shortly after release anyway... given the proliferation of chest piece already in game.

 

By the way I personally DO NOT believe anyone actually subscribed simply to get the Duster. Your entire argument and rage is specious. I can however believe some people did/do subscribe to actually get Nico and to get early access. Much more likely though... people are subscribing for the 12X XP promotion that leads up to 4.0.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Andryah

[EnkiduNineEight]

The word you're looking for is "incentive," btw.

 

Grow your vocabulary.

 

in·duce·ment

/inˈd(y)o͞osmənt/

noun

noun: inducement; plural noun: inducements

 

a thing that persuades or influences someone to do something.

"companies were prepared to build only in return for massive inducements"

 

synonyms: incentive, encouragement, attraction, temptation, stimulus, bait, lure, pull, draw, spur, goad, impetus, motive, motivation, provocation; More

bribe, reward;

 

informalcarrot, come-on, sweetener

 

"customers responded best to such inducements as rebates and low interest rates"

 

antonyms: deterrent

 

•a bribe.

 

•Law

introductory statements in a pleading explaining the matter in dispute.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Andryah,

 

They can play the game without the subscription. Its called f2p or even preferred status. It is not necessary to remain subscribed to play. It IS required to subscribe by X date in order to get Y 'gift'.

 

So yes, people subscribed _wholly_ to receive the gift because a subscription was a requirement to receive it, while a subscription was not required in order to play.

 

No, BioWare/EA did not show exactly what was being offered. Instead, they referred to it as Nico's Duster.

 

Now, lets just say Bioware promised you a status of Revan for your Stronghold. Now, theny never said exactly what you were going to get, but they made it known in multiple marketing and promotional materials you would receive a statue of Revan. Then, once the date rolls around and its no longer an available inducement and they have already roped you in to purchasing it, they give you a statue, but the statue is granite block lettering that spells our Revan.

 

Now, technically, they did not lie to you, but effectively they misdirected you because they referred to something that, following the reasonable person test, would be presumed to be what they were saying it was. A statue of Revan, a known character in the BioWare/Old Republic Mythos who has a very specific look and character. The reasonable person whould presume a 'Statue of Revan' meant a specific thing.

 

The same can be said for Nico's Duster. The marketing materials and Hype were pretty clear who they were talking about, had pictures of the character, etc. So a reasonable person (and I know this excludes some of you....) would make the connection that what they would be getting, and why they were asked to buy a subscription to get it, would be something unique and matching the aesthetic of the character as presented already on multiple occasions by BioWare.

 

What they are getting instead is a generic reskin of an _existing_ item, just named 'Nico's Duster' or what have you.

 

It is amazing the mental gymnastics you will make in order to try to justify your position, and amusing to say the least considering your own history.

 

The simple fact is the item is NOT free. The ONLY way to obtain it is in a cash transfer to BioWare within a limited time scale.

 

The simple fact remains is that, so far and to all appearances, the item being provided looks nothing like the item it is named for per the voluminous catalogue of images from BioWare of the item on the character its named for.

 

People are thus, right to express their disappointment.

 

I'm standing up for their right to do that. I could care less, I was already subscribed and I don't need the duster. I really don't tend to prefer that style on any of my characters or their companions. (Well, one of my Mako's wears a trench sort of outfit)

 

But what is being provided is certainly disappointing, especially considering that you had to pay to obtain it, if you took the reasonable person approach to believing what you were told you were getting is what you see on the character.

 

If there were only minor cosmetic differences and people were going all AlecF on it like Jedi Robes, then I would likely be sitting in a camp with you saying... c'mon.. you're niggling.

 

But this is not the same, the item is basically not much like what is pictured for Nico Okarr in any of the art available for the character. Its a long coat, and its tan.. that's about it.

[branmakmuffin]

False you are buying 1 item and being given another item for free for purchasing said item. Just like Bioware is giving subscribers free things for being subscribers. Please try to keep up with your lack of understanding.

If that were true, I should be able to just get the second one for free. What is actually happening is that you are getting a 50% discount for buying 2. We are effectively getting a discount on our subscriptions because they are giving out stuff at no additional cost. If the swag were free, everyone would get the swag.

 

Also:

 

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire

 

"THE ADVENTURE BEGINS ON OCTOBER 27th, FREE FOR ALL SUBSCRIBERS!

 

PREPARE TO FACE YOUR DESTINY."

 

You were saying?

So if BWEA posted in a marketing campaign that cats are dogs, that would make it so.

 

Got it.

[EnkiduNineEight]

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-hp-203

 

Seriously, just look at the pictures provided in the marketing materials.

 

Then use this:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Nico+Okarr&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS456US457&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIw-vLl__vxwIVwRmSCh3y9Ae5&biw=1229&bih=955

 

What is shown in the Twitter screenshot is not what is shown in any of the other pictures, most especially the pictures in their own marketing material saying what you would get.

 

Reasonable people would expect that when you say 'Do this and get this' and they have a picture of 'this', that what you actually get would be the 'this' they pictured, and it is not.

 

The chest portion is different. the collar is different, the rear is likely different because it instead appears to very match an existing asset in the game.

 

Its disingenuous of BioWare if not outright dishonest.

[Andryah]

...... the item is basically not much like what is pictured

 

Like so many other armors they release in game, where the actual armor somehow does not look exactly like player xyz envisions. Poorly managed expectations is the core issue here. People see concept art or a cinematic... set their rigid expectations... and then see the actual armor and then proceed to meltdown in the forums about it. The hilarity here being NONE OF US.. has actually seen the actual Duster yet.

 

In the end... it DOES NOT matter. We get what we get. AND.. it may (or may not) magically get changed later (for better or for worse). I'm not at all surprised when armor released does not match cinematic trailers or concept art teased out to us in advance. Any veteran player really should know better by now.

 

As for who is subbing and why..... people mostly are either already subbed and enjoying the game, OR.. they resubbed to take advantage of 12X XP ahead of 4.0, OR they subbed to take advantage of the promotion dates for Nico and/or early access. Any other pretense is just noise for noise sake.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Andryah

[neoraFIVE]

How many times do I need to post this before someone sees it?

 

They redesigned Nico's art recently. New Look

[branmakmuffin]

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-hp-203

 

Seriously, just look at the pictures provided in the marketing materials.

The 2 images of the coat look pretty much like the Troublemaker coat to me. This is what they are obviously intending to deliver. Where is the supposed deception?

 

Then use this:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Nico+Okarr&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS456US457&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIw-vLl__vxwIVwRmSCh3y9Ae5&biw=1229&bih=955

 

What is shown in the Twitter screenshot is not what is shown in any of the other pictures, most especially the pictures in their own marketing material saying what you would get.

Those are pics from the cinematic trailer.

 

Reasonable people would assume they are getting what is shown in the marketing materials, not a cinematic trailer.

[Andryah]

Reasonable people would assume they are getting what is shown in the marketing materials, not a cinematic trailer.

 

There is the problem right there. These are not reasonable complaints from reasonable people.

[branmakmuffin]

There is the problem right there. These are not reasonable complaints from reasonable people.

I'm reasonable enough to know that it's unreasonable to expect otherwise.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Andryah,

 

And IF they subbed in order to get the promotional items, they made a cash transaction in order to receive an item that is only available by making the cash transaction by a certain date. THUS as the items availability is ONLY tied to a cash transaction, the item is not FREE.

 

And, as I already said, were it only _small_ differences and people whining about how it is not _exactly_ like the cinematic/other art depicted coat I would agree with you.

 

The thing is, its is, to all present appearances, not only NOT AT ALL like the coat in the cinematics, but it is just another color variation of an exisiting item.

 

So you are not getting 'Nico Okarr's Duster', or an item that is made to closely resemble if not be exactly representative of the Duster as depicted in game art. You are getting a 'Troublemaker's Coat' named Nico's Duster and given a tan colour palette.

 

So stop attacking these people who are disappointed just because you have recently decided to be a fannerd of BioWare/SWTOR again and feel the need to justify everything and everything they do for whatever reason you do that.

 

Admit that what they are getting is not what they were told they were getting by any reasonable person test..

Admit they ad to PAY to get it, and that the only way to get it was a cash transaction by a certain date.

Admit that it is important to them, just as whatever issues that made you quit and then come sniveling back and acting your old self were important to you.

Edited September 11, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Reno_Tarshil]

If that were true, I should be able to just get the second one for free. What is actually happening is that you are getting a 50% discount for buying 2. We are effectively getting a discount on our subscriptions because they are giving out stuff at no additional cost. If the swag were free, everyone would get the swag.

 

So if BWEA posted in a marketing campaign that cats are dogs, that would make it so.

 

Got it.

 

Wrong, they are giving out bonus rewards for free for being a subscriber, similar to how they gave out free mounts and pets and even a stronghold with rooms unlocked for being a subscriber for free. Free Incentives/Bonus Rewards to be a subscriber are the correct terms I shall be sticking with.

 

It's their game in a fictional space setting, who is to say cats couldn't be dogs. I mean it's not canon anyways.

[branmakmuffin]

Admit that what they are getting is not what they were told they were getting by any reasonable person test.

This is what they were told they were getting.

Edited September 11, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Belegnole]

Andryah,

 

And IF they subbed in order to get the promotional items, they made a cash transaction in order to receive an item that is only available by making the cash transaction by a certain date. THUS as the items availability is ONLY tied to a cash transaction, the item is not FREE.

 

snip/

 

If I could only give you rep....

[branmakmuffin]

Wrong, they are giving out bonus rewards for free for being a subscriber, similar to how they gave out free mounts and pets and even a stronghold with rooms unlocked for being a subscriber for free. Free Incentives/Bonus Rewards to be a subscriber are the correct terms I shall be sticking with.

If you want to think you're getting something for free when you actually have to pay for it, no one can dissuade you, apparently. Either that or you really do have the elusive $0/month subscription plan.

 

It's their game in a fictional space setting, who is to say cats couldn't be dogs. I mean it's not canon anyways.

Look up non sequitor.

[Andryah]

Wrong, they are giving out bonus rewards for free for being a subscriber, similar to how they gave out free mounts and pets and even a stronghold with rooms unlocked for being a subscriber for free. Free Incentives/Bonus Rewards to be a subscriber are the correct terms I shall be sticking with.

 

It's their game in a fictional space setting, who is to say cats couldn't be dogs. I mean it's not canon anyways.

 

Exactly.

 

This is no different then "veteran rewards" or "referral rewards" or "pre-order rewards" or "subscriber rewards" that are doled out to subscribers in most MMOs.

 

It's just that because some people feel the twitter post (which =/= actual in game armor, yet) is different then the cinematics.. they need to create a platform to complain. And the low hanging fruit for the complainers is to insist they "paid for it" so they can rage on about "how dare Bioware release armor that does not match concept art or cinematic". Creating a faux pretext is an extremely immature and contrived way to complain IMO.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Andryah

[EnkiduNineEight]

The 2 images of the coat look pretty much like the Troublemaker coat to me. This is what they are obviously intending to deliver. Where is the supposed deception?

 

 

Those are pics from the cinematic trailer.

 

Reasonable people would assume they are getting what is shown in the marketing materials, not a cinematic trailer.

 

Bran:

 

http://swtorista.com/uploads/outfitimages/troublemaker_01_854x4804150.jpg - Rear view, does not match rear-view of marketing material per the link off their main SWTOR page, top banner represented by:

 

http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/fallenempire/bothawui/screens/duster-thumb.jpg

 

So if this does turn out to be like the troublemaker set, there are some significant differences that would mean its just another copy of the same troublemaker armor, so a reasonable distinction and disappointment for those people who were subscribing _solely_ to receive the additional items.

 

http://tor-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MTroublemakerBack.png - another view of the back. Again, while there are similarities there are some significant differences.

 

From the marketing materials page:

 

http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/fallenempire/bothawui/screens/hero-thumb.jpg - Save the file, make it larger to make out the details. Chest portion is different than:

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COe7bl1W8AEOSiJ.jpg:large - Twitter image of the Nico Duster just released.

 

But this image is very much like the troublemaker coat

 

http://tor-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MTroublemakerClose.png

 

What they are showing the players in the marketing material in which they are eliciting a purchase is different than what is being provided from the purchase so far as we can tell from what has been provided.

 

The point being while it is _similar_ its an obvious cheapo/quick reskin job and that is disappointing to people who see that this was used as an inducement to get them to purchase and then et not something new and more unique but instead a reskin of existing asset.

Edited September 11, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight