Nico Okarr's Coat - What a disappointment

[EnkiduNineEight]

I think we're agreeing here, actually.

 

We've been agreeing for a long time. I wasn't addressing you.

 

I replied to your post to expound upon it because some folks above you who you were addressing keep stating that they already spent the money, already were going to subscribe, etc.

Edited September 17, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[SteveTheCynic]

just like using 99 cents instead of whole number rounding.

There's a persistent rumour that this comes from the wish, back in the days when shops were organised differently than today, to force staff to go back to the tills to get change, avoiding the scenario where the member of staff pockets the cash that he took from the customer because there wasn't a need to get change.

[SteveTheCynic]

If I use the word "torch" to describe a flashlight and you use it to describe a burning piece of wood, that doesn't mean either one of us is using the word incorrectly, we just use context to come to an understanding about how the word is being used, even though "burning piece of wood" was probably the 'root concept' of the word and applying it to a flashlight came later. Same deal here - we use context to determine whether "free" is being used to mean "no cost added" or to mean "no cost at all".

If I use the word "torch" to describe a "flashlight", that's perfectly normal. "Flashlight" is an Americanism. The British use the word "torch" to mean "a self-powered light source I can carry in my hand", whether it is a battery-powered lamp or a burning piece of wood. And of course the burning piece of wood is the root concept, and applying the word "torch" to a battery-powered lamp did indeed come later, because there have been burning-wood torches for much longer than there have been battery-powered-lamp torches.

[Max_Killjoy]

There's a persistent rumour that this comes from the wish, back in the days when shops were organised differently than today, to force staff to go back to the tills to get change, avoiding the scenario where the member of staff pockets the cash that he took from the customer because there wasn't a need to get change.

 

There's also an idea floating around that supposedly, people subconsciously drop off anything after the first few digits or after the decimal point, so that they mentally see $12.99 as "12 dollars" instead of "about $13", or $12,999 a lot farther from 13 thousand dollars than it really is.

 

(Based on my own internal experience, this is nonsense, as I always round UP on prices if I'm looking at how much something will cost.)

[SteveTheCynic]

There's also an idea floating around that supposedly, people subconsciously drop off anything after the first few digits or after the decimal point, so that they mentally see $12.99 as "12 dollars" instead of "about $13", or $12,999 a lot farther from 13 thousand dollars than it really is.

 

(Based on my own internal experience, this is nonsense, as I always round UP on prices if I'm looking at how much something will cost.)

Sure, but I thought the other thing came first.

[Eillack]

Lol this is hilarious, you guys are still debating over "free?"

[DNGDangerous]

To get the free nico bonuses- all someone had to do was be subscribed during the even period for each reward right?

 

So if someone clicked someone elses referral link to get a Free 7-day subscription during the promotional time- will that person get the rewards like the duster or blaster?

[Vallerine]

If someone pays for food, they get the air as part of life, which they are paying for.

 

If someone does not pay the food, they starve and die, and no longer get any oxygen.

 

 

Yes, I'm vastly overexaggerating here, but that's because it's very disengenious to say that you're paying 15 bucks to get the coat.

You're not paying that to get the coat.

You're paying that to play the game with all the features.

The coat is just a bonus, that you don't have to pay anything extra for.

 

If you had to pay for the coat, the fee would be larger that month.

 

I recently bought 6 posters at a comic con near me, and they gave me an extra one just because I bought so many.

I didn't pay anything extra for it.

I paid the price of 6 posters.

I got one extra for free.

If I had not bought the posters, I would not have gotten the extra one, but that doesn't mean I paid 20 bucks for 7 posters. It means I paid 20 bucks for 6 posters and got one for free.

 

But in order to get the 7th one you had to purchase the first 6 therefore the 7th one wasn't free. You cannot get the 7th one unless you pay for the first 6.

 

Blimey, is that really hard to understand?

[Reno_Tarshil]

But in order to get the 7th one you had to purchase the first 6 therefore the 7th one wasn't free. You cannot get the 7th one unless you pay for the first 6.

 

Blimey, is that really hard to understand?

 

But the 7th one is free because he made a purchase for 6 posters with no promise of a free 7th poster. But since he had bought so many the seller decided to give him an extra one for free.

[Max_Killjoy]

But the 7th one is free because he made a purchase for 6 posters with no promise of a free 7th poster. But since he had bought so many the seller decided to give him an extra one for free.

 

I added some emphasis to the important parts there.

 

The result of spending the money included an extra return on the payment. Not free, extra.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[ikinai]

I added some emphasis to the important parts there.

 

And? He got one for free. So what was the emphasis about? It was immaterial that there was a purchase, the purchase was for 6, he got seven. Do you not understand that? One of them was not paid for. Therefore it was free.

[Max_Killjoy]

And? He got one for free. So what was the emphasis about? It was immaterial that there was a purchase, the purchase was for 6, he got seven. Do you not understand that? One of them was not paid for. Therefore it was free.

 

All of them were paid for -- the unit cost was simply lower with the 7th added in.

 

If he hadn't made a purchase, if he hadn't spent money, he'd have obtained none of them.

[ikinai]

All of them were paid for -- the unit cost was simply lower with the 7th added in.

 

If he hadn't made a purchase, if he hadn't spent money, he'd have obtained none of them.

 

Okay, I think we both can agree that if you don't pay for something, that thing is free. Correct?

[Eanelinea]

To get the free nico bonuses- all someone had to do was be subscribed during the even period for each reward right?

 

So if someone clicked someone elses referral link to get a Free 7-day subscription during the promotional time- will that person get the rewards like the duster or blaster?

 

From all the information I've seen, no. You can click on 7 day free subscriptions all day long and you will not get the bonuses. You have to actually PAY FOR a subscription $12-15 (however you go about your sub) to get those bonuses. If you didn't spend the money for a sub on those days, you won't get the bonuses.

[Reno_Tarshil]

All of them were paid for -- the unit cost was simply lower with the 7th added in.

 

If he hadn't made a purchase, if he hadn't spent money, he'd have obtained none of them.

 

He only purchased 6. He didn't purchase those 6 to get a 7th for free. That was a gift from the seller for free. There was nothing to say that by purchasing 6 that he'd be promised a 7th for free. Therefor the 7th poster was absolutely free.

[DNGDangerous]

To get the free nico bonuses- all someone had to do was be subscribed during the even period for each reward right?

 

So if someone clicked someone elses referral link to get a Free 7-day subscription during the promotional time- will that person get the rewards like the duster or blaster?

 

 

From all the information I've seen, no. You can click on 7 day free subscriptions all day long and you will not get the bonuses. You have to actually PAY FOR a subscription $12-15 (however you go about your sub) to get those bonuses. If you didn't spend the money for a sub on those days, you won't get the bonuses.

 

Oh i see, so i have to pay to get my free nico stuff. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Edited September 18, 2015 by DNGDangerous

[Max_Killjoy]

Okay, I think we both can agree that if you don't pay for something, that thing is free. Correct?

 

Yes.

 

Both the poster and the coat, however, do not in any way meet said criteria.

 

If Bioware just sent the coat out to one or more characters on every account in SWTOR no matter what, that would have been "free".

 

If the vendor had simply given him the poster, that would have been "free".

[EnkiduNineEight]

Okay, I think we both can agree that if you don't pay for something, that thing is free. Correct?

 

You think you're clever. You're not.

 

If you walk down the street and s stranger with no connection to you at all gives you a brand new baseball and wants nothing in return.. This is free.

 

If your cable company calls you and says, you've been a loyal subscriber for 6 months and as long as you subscribe another six months we'll give you this nice new baseball... that is 'not free' even though you do not pay for it specifically and are not invoiced for it.

 

It is 'free' with a contingency and the contingent condition is a purchase/contract/exchange.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Good example for our neckbeards, mouthbreathers and general geek culture, so they may be familiar with the reference.

 

On 'Free Comic Book Day' you can go to any participating comic book store and receive a single issue of a comic book from those selected for the promotion. You can walk in, grab the book, walk out. There is no contingent transaction required. You do not have to make a purchase at the store, though many will.

 

This is a 'FREE' item.

 

If, to receive the 'Free Comic Book' you had to make any form of purchase from the store, it is not 'free'.

If, you have to present a receipt showing you have spent money in this store/participating comic book store within the last 30 days. it is still not free.

 

Anything whose receipt is contingent on a transaction has a 'cost' it is just not a cost you are directly billed/invoiced for.

[DOHboy]

We still beating this horse...

 

if you ask an accountant if you pay for x get x + y. then y is free.

if you ask an economist nothing is free...

 

if you want to nit pick and have a shouting contest on "free' if you pay X and get X+Y INDIVIDUAL cost of items is (X+Y)/X OR you can do cost is X and get Y free. Both are equal valid and correct. Its not a quarter...its 25cents.

 

Dozen costs $12..cost per item $1

BAKERS Dozen costs $12 cost per item $.923 OR buy 12 get one free. Since buying 12 normally costs $12 you get 13 for the cost of 12. thats either 1 free or averaging the costs across # units.

 

THE ARE BOTH THE SAME THING!

 

On the books (and via their accounting) it will be FREE since they will set the value of that item to 0 and add it to the items given.

 

We going to discuss and complain about the definitions of FREE and/or EXTRA until the next issue comes up to witch about?

 

I am glad there is nothing in this game worth discussing as something so petty as whether some extra item is "free" or not.

 

You will get it one way or another so who freaking cares if its "Free" or an "extra" item added onto a subscription.

 

We going to complain that since they "lowered" the cost of a subscription to add in the "extra" item that the next month when there are not "extra" items added they "raised" the cost on us?

 

This is why people throw their arms up whenever government "cuts" a budget by giving some project only a 5% raise instead of the 10% raise they were expecting to get. OMG THEY CUT OUR BUDGET!!!!

 

If they took it away, you'd still get exactly what you paid for the month before, and the month after..this month you get that plus something else.

 

what are we 12? I'm rubber you're glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!!! I know you are, what am I?!?

Edited September 18, 2015 by DOHboy

[Thoronmir]

We going to complain that since they "lowered" the cost of a subscription to add in the "extra" item that the next month when there are not "extra" items added they "raised" the cost on us?

No. Claiming we should only have to pay the incrementally reduced monthly subscription rate would be silly. However, by giving me full subscriber access to the game for that month plus the swag, EA/BW has voluntarily increased the value of my subscription. My subscription was worth X. It is now worth X+Y. They cannot later unilaterally devalue my subscription by no longer doling out swag each month. By linking KOTFE swag to subscription status, they have committed themselves to maintaining the new value of a monthly subscription (which EA/BW decided to set). That means: Free swag every month. Anything less is an impairment of value of my property (i.e., my subscription).

 

 

Just kidding man. It's Friday and I'm bored. Seriously, what a bunch of whiners.

 

[branmakmuffin]

We still beating this horse.

Dead horses don't beat themselves. They're dead.

[DOHboy]

Dead horses don't beat themselves. They're dead.

 

bah given the dark arts on these forums... we sure found many ways to resurrect this one and flog it again.

 

Seriously we had this very same conversation back when we went F2P and were (then) complaining about the mistranslation to french of the "complimentry" CC with a subscription and if they are actually "free".

 

Since the month before my subscription gave me exact same access as it did the next month with a few coins tossed into the mix we tossed that horse until it was glue.

 

Then we dug it up when RotHC when "free to subscribers" (along with the backlash of people who payed for it wanting refunds..God we whine about everything).

 

Now its a stupid coat...really? a coat...sorry a "duster" want to make sure dont' get sued for calling it a coat.

[DOHboy]

Nothing is EVER FREE someone somewhere pays for it...the air we breath...technically not free, since all the taxes paid and to keep it clean and breathable or all the money spent on planting plants to generate NEW oxygen from all the hot air people spew out over the centuries.

 

water...not free see air above.

 

time..not free. it has some sort of "cost" of doing something associated with it. Now whether that cost is economical (i.e opportunity cost), or accountable (i.e a zero balance on a spreadsheet) who bloody cares...

 

oh wait WE do apparently.

 

 

I AM CALM DANG IT!!!!

 

[DogMeat]

So what are we talking about again?

I kinda like the coat..but that's just me.

 

What price change?