Make VG/PT specs better with only a couple changes.

[Keypek]

4.0 is coming up and there is info out there already about changes coming but since its mined info I won't touch on those. But it seems like since 3.0 VG/PT have had abilities in the wrong specs this whole time.

 

A couple changes I suggest to make all three specs make more sense and more even are simple. They are mostly based around the fact that plasmatech is a fine spec dps wise but lacks defensive capability and suffers from a long channel that becomes problematic in a raid situation. So the first change I suggest is...

 

Switch Ion Storm with Shockstrike. Plasmatech's entire existence is based off of pulse cannon. Sure, being able to move while channeling it would be an option but that'd kind of look weird and don't want to make it super easy, lazy. The quick channel proc to double its speed for Ion Storm would be perfect... have it proc off plasmatize for 30 seconds to time with it ( I would not include the "take off cooldown" or "uses no ammo" part of the old Shieldtech proc- however I'd leave that in Shield for pulse cannon still without the double speed). This would significantly help using your main ability in a raid setting with required movement. Not to mention ion storm looks cooler and would be a nice change to a spec that rotates around it. Shockstrike for shield spec makes more sense as the ion damage proc is based off stockstrike, SS crit chance is buffed, the take off CD proc for SS, and buffs shield enhancers. Shield Spec is based around stockstrike a lot so makes sense that it'd get the new and improved version.

 

Second suggestion I'd make is put Sonic Defense from tactics (which gives a 30% defense chance for 6 seconds) and put it in Plasmatech with the Insulated Augs ability which synergizes with the 10 second CD reduction for rebounder. Tactics would still come out ahead in damage reduction and defensives but playing plasmatech would be less of a detriment with 30% defense for 6 seconds every 35 seconds and a pulse cannon that only takes 1.5 seconds to channel (all before alacrity).

 

I don't have any obvious suggestions as to what would replace Sonic Defense in tactics but the spec is so well off right now it wouldn't matter a whole lot. Maybe move the 2% ranged and tech crit chance out of Critical Recharge and put it where SD was. Replace it in crit recharge with "Cell Bursts range is now increased by 5 meters" to let it synergize with the new 15m range. But ultimately what happens with SD's spot is of little concern to me if the other two changes happened.

[Cuiwe]

Also, the PlasmaTech needs better pacing for leveling because 12xp won't be here forever, you know . Almost every passive of notice(or even a skill indeed) is placed after level 32...ffs. PlasmaTech has got to have the most useless / unfun act I of all the classes. Your Ion Storm < - > ShockStrike switch makes perfect sense and I insisted on it before. But then the PulseGen would need a nerf lol! I sttongly advocate(d) that Plasma Barrage comes earlier(in the first 24 levels is ideal). Really, without free Ion Pulses / Explosives Surges...pointless discipline(but then again so is the whole Sent/Mara without Contemplation/Brooding baseline).

[JMagee]

If you take Sonic Defense out of Tactics, I really think you need to put some sort of defensive back in. Not from a Tactics vs. Plasmatech survivability standpoint, but from an overall # of DCDs on Tactics stand point.

 

You get rid of Sonic Defense, Tactics has 2 DCDs (not including the passive traits). That's not enough. Adrenaline Rush barely counts because it doesn't proactively mitigate damage. Leaving Tactics with only reactive shield and its intermediate length cooldown (if you're avoiding damage elsewhere) is going to make a pretty glass-cannon spec even more glass cannon in PvE in PvP.

 

Maybe tactics could get the ability to place the Rebounder Shield on the VG himself as a replacement, but the idea of removing 33% of tactics' DCDs (and arguably the one that can be most beneficial in PvP) is just going to make the spec die even quicker.

[Keypek]

But then the PulseGen would need a nerf lol!

 

Yeah damage would need adjusted a little since you'd cut the channel in half so the damage would come quicker. And the spec is lacking while leveling until your 40s for sure. But seems like they just don't care about pre-60 leveling anymore lol.

 

If you take Sonic Defense out of Tactics, I really think you need to put some sort of defensive back in. Not from a Tactics vs. Plasmatech survivability standpoint, but from an overall # of DCDs on Tactics stand point.

 

You get rid of Sonic Defense, Tactics has 2 DCDs (not including the passive traits). That's not enough. Adrenaline Rush barely counts because it doesn't proactively mitigate damage. Leaving Tactics with only reactive shield and its intermediate length cooldown (if you're avoiding damage elsewhere) is going to make a pretty glass-cannon spec even more glass cannon in PvE in PvP.

 

Maybe tactics could get the ability to place the Rebounder Shield on the VG himself as a replacement, but the idea of removing 33% of tactics' DCDs (and arguably the one that can be most beneficial in PvP) is just going to make the spec die even quicker.

 

It would certainly reduce options for Tactics but don't forget that the spec also has baseline 30% reduction on aoe and 30% reduction while stunned. Both are fairly huge for pvp and extremely useful in most boss fights. But I would be perfectly fine with replacing it with a different DCD. But Sonic Defense just synergizes with Plasmatech more imo. Course, I'd also bump Plasma's DoT reduction from 15% to 25% in addition to that.

 

But after having said all that, I do like your idea of having rebounder placed on the VG. Would work for either spec actually if they put it in plasma can leave sonic defense in tactics even and skip changing anything at all. Either way, it'd be nice to even out the defensive ability between the two specs.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Keypek

[Zoom_VI]

Tactics but don't forget that the spec also has baseline 30% reduction on aoe and 30% reduction while stunned. Both are fairly huge for pvp and extremely useful in most boss fights.

.

 

Sigh. Stabilized armor is only strong if you only look at it in isolation. In practice, given the total lack of any other potent defensives Tactics is already extremely underpowered defensively. The only thing keeping us alive currently is mobility and even then it's a stretch.

Sonic Defense is Tactic's mainstay DcD and is also Tactic's only major defense against burst damage.

[KainrycKarr]

Don't take defensives away from AP. Give a new one to Pyro. Otherwise you just make both weak.

[Bonzenaattori]

Switch Ion Storm with Shockstrike. Plasmatech's entire existence is based off of pulse cannon. Sure, being able to move while channeling it would be an option but that'd kind of look weird and don't want to make it super easy, lazy. The quick channel proc to double its speed for Ion Storm would be perfect... have it proc off plasmatize for 30 seconds to time with it ( I would not include the "take off cooldown" or "uses no ammo" part of the old Shieldtech proc- however I'd leave that in Shield for pulse cannon still without the double speed). This would significantly help using your main ability in a raid setting with required movement. Not to mention ion storm looks cooler and would be a nice change to a spec that rotates around it. Shockstrike for shield spec makes more sense as the ion damage proc is based off stockstrike, SS crit chance is buffed, the take off CD proc for SS, and buffs shield enhancers. Shield Spec is based around stockstrike a lot so makes sense that it'd get the new and improved version.

 

+100 - Stockstrike (or shockstrike) altho it is the 2nd most used skill in rotation I agree with this 100%

Plasmatech should give a massive payload to the Pulse Cannon snowball and Ion Storm is the perfect candidate.

Shockstrike actually makes more sense for Tanks as well because it's like adding electrical effect onto melee ability which is your largest threat builder and... well it's not plasma so reasons!

 

Second suggestion I'd make is put Sonic Defense from tactics (which gives a 30% defense chance for 6 seconds) and put it in Plasmatech with the Insulated Augs ability which synergizes with the 10 second CD reduction for rebounder. Tactics would still come out ahead in damage reduction and defensives but playing plasmatech would be less of a detriment with 30% defense for 6 seconds every 35 seconds and a pulse cannon that only takes 1.5 seconds to channel (all before alacrity).

 

+100 again.

Tactics has 5 defensive talents where plasmatech only has 2 (1 of them is bugged as well)

This is major disadvantage for plasmatech and this talent used to belong on Plasmatech prior 3.0 anyway (previously known as Assault Specialist), bring it back home where it belongs

Either give us 1 defensive talent, or give us reload cooldown talent, so we can go all in on our heat ramp/ammo burn.

 

I don't have any obvious suggestions as to what would replace Sonic Defense in tactics but the spec is so well off right now it wouldn't matter a whole lot. Maybe move the 2% ranged and tech crit chance out of Critical Recharge and put it where SD was. Replace it in crit recharge with "Cell Bursts range is now increased by 5 meters" to let it synergize with the new 15m range. But ultimately what happens with SD's spot is of little concern to me if the other two changes happened.

 

Nice post, I agree with this all the way! Plasmatech is so underwhelming simply because bioware has fed tactics nearly every strong talent point, 50% of which used to belong in plasmatech in the first place.

I feel they should replace the sonic defense with the Hyper Assault Shell, and give tactics auto crit from their next High Impact bolt.

I say this because based on your suggestion of changing shockstrike.

I don't think Stockstrike should be a super ability, even with the auto crit on high impact + shock strike skill, it's still just designed for filler, your priority is dot upkeep, Pulse Engine, and cooldown management, Shockstrike is filler. A hard hitting filler but it's still filler.

It doesn't have crit damage like tactics does, so give Tactics auto crit from High impact bolt, which is really key in their rotation for stacking High impact Cell, and then we get a defensive talent in return.

 

Nice post.

Tips Fedora..

[KainrycKarr]

+100 - Stockstrike (or shockstrike) altho it is the 2nd most used skill in rotation I agree with this 100%

Plasmatech should give a massive payload to the Pulse Cannon snowball and Ion Storm is the perfect candidate.

Shockstrike actually makes more sense for Tanks as well because it's like adding electrical effect onto melee ability which is your largest threat builder and... well it's not plasma so reasons!

 

 

 

+100 again.

Tactics has 5 defensive talents where plasmatech only has 2 (1 of them is bugged as well)

This is major disadvantage for plasmatech and this talent used to belong on Plasmatech prior 3.0 anyway (previously known as Assault Specialist), bring it back home where it belongs

Either give us 1 defensive talent, or give us reload cooldown talent, so we can go all in on our heat ramp/ammo burn.

 

 

 

Nice post, I agree with this all the way! Plasmatech is so underwhelming simply because bioware has fed tactics nearly every strong talent point, 50% of which used to belong in plasmatech in the first place.

I feel they should replace the sonic defense with the Hyper Assault Shell, and give tactics auto crit from their next High Impact bolt.

I say this because based on your suggestion of changing shockstrike.

I don't think Stockstrike should be a super ability, even with the auto crit on high impact + shock strike skill, it's still just designed for filler, your priority is dot upkeep, Pulse Engine, and cooldown management, Shockstrike is filler. A hard hitting filler but it's still filler.

It doesn't have crit damage like tactics does, so give Tactics auto crit from High impact bolt, which is really key in their rotation for stacking High impact Cell, and then we get a defensive talent in return.

 

Nice post.

Tips Fedora..

 

Or, you could just have them boost Pyrotech without nerfing AP's defensives.

[Keypek]

Or, you could just have them boost Pyrotech without nerfing AP's defensives.

 

Well, the original point of my post was to make abilities synergize with their specs more. All of the ability trading I suggested just makes more sense for all the specs involved and helps plasmatech be less of a liability in a lot of fights. The trading of sonic defense to plasmatech was simply cause it made more sense in that spec. However, I do like the idea mentioned previously of leaving it in tactics and letting plasmatechs rebounder apply its affect on the VG/PT as well. That way tactics keeps all its current defensives and plasma gets another decent one.

 

I just think the SS/ion storm trade makes way too much sense. Course I also don't understand why in 4.0 they are giving tactics a DoT when plasma is the DoT tree but oh well.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Well, the original point of my post was to make abilities synergize with their specs more. All of the ability trading I suggested just makes more sense for all the specs involved and helps plasmatech be less of a liability in a lot of fights. The trading of sonic defense to plasmatech was simply cause it made more sense in that spec. However, I do like the idea mentioned previously of leaving it in tactics and letting plasmatechs rebounder apply its affect on the VG/PT as well. That way tactics keeps all its current defensives and plasma gets another decent one.

 

I just think the SS/ion storm trade makes way too much sense. Course I also don't understand why in 4.0 they are giving tactics a DoT when plasma is the DoT tree but oh well.

 

It's because Bioware is stupid and doesn't think that Cell Burst/Energy Burst would be useful for ALL specs.

 

Make it work like Discharge for Assassins, each spec gets it's own variation, Ion Cell would work like Heat Blast, where you need 3 Heat Screens = Cell Burst, remove Heat Blast and replace it with Shockstrike, High Energy Cell would remain the same, new ability would be Serrated Grenade, an AOE that spreads Retractable Blade's DoT, and Plasma Cell would get an 18s long DoT that spreads with Firestorm/Ion Storm.

 

This would be a semi-copycat type thing, but it would work. If it works for Assassin's, don't re-invent the wheel. If it was called High Energy Burst, or Energy Cell Burst, It wouldn't fit with the other specs due to the name. But, you give it a recolor for each spec, it would act like a PT/VG version of Supercharge Cell/Gas except more offensive oriented!

[Bonzenaattori]

Or, you could just have them boost Pyrotech without nerfing AP's defensives.

 

Nerfing AP's defensives? You mean those talents that originally belonged on Plasmatech and got moved to make that spec strong in the first place... kay

[KainrycKarr]

Nerfing AP's defensives? You mean those talents that originally belonged on Plasmatech and got moved to make that spec strong in the first place... kay

 

You...you realize current AP is old Pyro's RS reset right? Which had 30% reduction on Kolto which is now in new Pyro?

 

So, again, how about making both specs strong by ADDING to Pyro and leaving AP alone?

 

kay.

[realleaftea]

Adrenaline Rush barely counts because it doesn't proactively mitigate damage.

There are basically 3 ways to mitigate damage:

 

 

• Dodging, blocking, absorbing or reducing damage
  
• Restoring the life lost (heals)
  
• Interrupting, stunning, etc. Or any way of lowering the enemy's ability to damage you (incl. being out of range)
  

 

That's why you have to take range differences into account and can't simply ignore Adrenaline Rush. The latter has a continuous effect, so every hitpoint you restore is a proactive mitigation right before the next one hits you.

 

Course I also don't understand why in 4.0 they are giving tactics a DoT when plasma is the DoT tree but oh well.

Because over-specialization is a bad thing. The same way, every Commando has heals, not just the Medic.

 

And that brings me to the original suggestion:

Replacement skills aren't always added to increase class specialization, but to decrease it! In other words, an otherwise unwanted or ignorable skill is boosted to make it viable or necessary again.

 

Without Ion Storm, the Shield Tech player might not use Ion Cannon at all (and use Explosive Surge instead).

Without Shockstrike, the PT might not use the melee attack at all. Who wouldn't like to stay at 10m+ range anyways?

 

So both skills ensure that you aren't limited to or can't rely on a single strategy.

 

And it doesn't mean that I dislike the idea, just wanted you to keep that in mind and to avoid the potential "boost skill xyz, it's useless in our build' complains that might follow.

Edited September 24, 2015 by realleaftea

[Lalainnia]

There are basically 3 ways to mitigate damage:

 

 

• Dodging, blocking, absorbing or reducing damage
  
• Restoring the life lost (heals)
  
• Interrupting, stunning, etc. Or any way of lowering the enemy's ability to damage you (incl. being out of range)
  

 

That's why you have to take range differences into account and can't simply ignore Adrenaline Rush. The latter has a continuous effect, so every hitpoint you restore is a proactive mitigation right before the next one hits you.

 

 

Because over-specialization is a bad thing. The same way, every Commando has heals, not just the Medic.

 

And that brings me to the original suggestion:

Replacement skills aren't always added to increase class specialization, but to decrease it! In other words, an otherwise unwanted or ignorable skill is boosted to make it viable or necessary again.

 

Without Ion Storm, the Shield Tech player might not use Ion Cannon at all (and use Explosive Surge instead).

Without Shockstrike, the PT might not use the melee attack at all. Who wouldn't like to stay at 10m+ range anyways?

 

So both skills ensure that you aren't limited to or can't rely on a single strategy.

 

And it doesn't mean that I dislike the idea, just wanted you to keep that in mind and to avoid the potential "boost skill xyz, it's useless in our build' complains that might follow.

 

Like every commando spec has heals? that's an awful comparison and if anything it should be compared to taunts. Giving tactics another dot specifically on cell burst is just plain stupid especially in comparison to what pyro got 15% crit on immolate HA.

[Bonzenaattori]

You...you realize current AP is old Pyro's RS reset right? Which had 30% reduction on Kolto which is now in new Pyro?

 

So, again, how about making both specs strong by ADDING to Pyro and leaving AP alone?

 

kay.

 

No it wasn't

think you might wana recheck your stuff before that BS comes pilling up to an absurd level...

 

Pyro had Kolto cooldown reduction when on cd, Chaff flare cleanse and dot dr

AP had stun dr, aoe dr and rebounder.

 

chaff got changed to defense chance on pyro spec, with aoe taunt change

and kolto got changed to damage miti. again on pyro spec

Both from Pyro spec, kkthx

 

Wut are you on about m8

 

 

kay.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Bonzenaattori

[realleaftea]

Like every commando spec has heals? that's an awful comparison and if anything it should be compared to taunts. Giving tactics another dot specifically on cell burst is just plain stupid especially in comparison to what pyro got 15% crit on immolate HA.

Every class has a threat-altering skill. it's IMO a necessity of a role-based threat system.

 

Heals on contrast are purely optional. Just one out of three possibilities for a temporary damage mitigation. Any other method I've mentioned would have done the trick as well.

 

The same way, a DoT is purely optional as well. You can either deal more damage right away, or spend your GCD to deal the damage over a certain period of time. And whereas one passive skill might increase your damage output by increasing the crit. chance, crit. damage or armor penetration, another one might add a over-time effect instead. Either way will result in an increased DPS ratio.

[Lalainnia]

Every class has a threat-altering skill. it's IMO a necessity of a role-based threat system.

 

Heals on contrast are purely optional. Just one out of three possibilities for a temporary damage mitigation. Any other method I've mentioned would have done the trick as well.

 

The same way, a DoT is purely optional as well. You can either deal more damage right away, or spend your GCD to deal the damage over a certain period of time. And whereas one passive skill might increase your damage output by increasing the crit. chance, crit. damage or armor penetration, another one might add a over-time effect instead. Either way will result in an increased DPS ratio.

 

Every class can lower threat, not every class can taunt that's why we have dps/heal dps/tank and 2 pure dps that used to have exclusive access to trauma. I'm not getting your point at all.

[JMagee]

There are basically 3 ways to mitigate damage:

 

 

• Dodging, blocking, absorbing or reducing damage
  
• Restoring the life lost (heals)
  
• Interrupting, stunning, etc. Or any way of lowering the enemy's ability to damage you (incl. being out of range)
  

 

That's why you have to take range differences into account and can't simply ignore Adrenaline Rush. The latter has a continuous effect, so every hitpoint you restore is a proactive mitigation right before the next one hits you.

 

Agree to disagree with this one.

 

Adrenaline rush is extremely situational at best. I don't see anything about it being proactive. It only works when you take damage and reach a certain hp% threshold, which makes it by definition, reactive. It only heals you once you take further damage, which again is reactive.

 

It heals for a set amount per second independent of how much damage you take. It can easily be overwhelmed by 1.5 people's damage(1 direct, 1 person's DoTs) in PvP and does not provide any sort of anti-focus utility. The absolute best case scenario if you manage to stay alive through AR is that you are at 40% life and dead within 3more GCDs.

 

Now, if it could be activated at any HP % and allowed to heal to 100% health (within its current time/Heal per second limits), it would be a proactive DCD. But as it stands now, the best you can hope for is that you can avoid taking damage faster than it can heal you, which is usually a role of the dice.

[JMagee]

Chaff flare cleanse

 

cleanse

 

cleanse

 

cleanse

 

Really? Try again

Edited September 28, 2015 by JMagee

[ExeErdna]

From Shield Tech what I want yet they won't do for Flame engine proc you should be able to use Flamethrower after a full cycle of Firestorm. Also Oil Slick should apply a debuff that allows more elemental and energy damage. There's needs to be more ways to apply Ion Gas debuff besides the Rapid Shot and Rocket Punch. Like Jet Charge applies like Rocket Punch Flame burst /sweep have a 20% chance of applying it. Then Flamethrower / Firestorm and Heat Blast can spread the Ion Overload effect. Since in 4.0 PT/Van tanks are taking a mobility hit they need to be more beefy damage wise.

 

From Pyrotech I know they won't do that they need to be able to move during a Superheated Flamethrower cycle and Immolate needs to be a fan sized AOE as well. Also bring back the old effect of Rain of Fire that gave the spec some good burst from Flame Punch, Rail Shot and made the class a bit more mobile.

[Zoom_VI]

No it wasn't

think you might wana recheck your stuff before that BS comes pilling up to an absurd level...

 

Pyro had Kolto cooldown reduction when on cd, Chaff flare cleanse and dot dr

AP had stun dr, aoe dr and rebounder.

 

chaff got changed to defense chance on pyro spec, with aoe taunt change

and kolto got changed to damage miti. again on pyro spec

Both from Pyro spec, kkthx

 

Wut are you on about m8

 

 

kay.

 

...except then you realise that they swapped old Pyro's mechanics with old AP's so that current gen AP is the direct successor to old Pyro.

Current gen Pyrotech is mechanically a direct descendant to old AP.

[TACeMossie]

...except then you realise that they swapped old Pyro's mechanics with old AP's so that current gen AP is the direct successor to old Pyro.

Current gen Pyrotech is mechanically a direct descendant to old AP.

 

I wouldn't say old AP...

 

I'd argue its a mechanically direct descendant to the old AP/Pyro hybrid. With the second rail shot being replaced with fire pulse, of course.

[Bonzenaattori]

Really? Try again

 

You must be a special kind of new to this game or something.

[Zoom_VI]

You must be a special kind of new to this game or something.

 

Chaff flare is not nor has it ever been a cleanse.

 

Unless you are referring to the 2.0-2.4 version of degauss where it removed movement-impairing effects.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[Bonzenaattori]

...except then you realise that they swapped old Pyro's mechanics with old AP's so that current gen AP is the direct successor to old Pyro.

Current gen Pyrotech is mechanically a direct descendant to old AP.

 

For offensive mechanics yes... but defensive. Why are we cherry picking then?

By your logic that means that Pyro should either get stun/aoe 30% dr. or Energy Rebounder... or even Power Loaders...

Because you're directly swapping a tier 6 talent for another one, both being on each respective specs... why does AP get both? Aaaaand we get what in return? What would you say is the equivalent of losing a defensive talent? Rail shot auto crit?

But seriously, I really appreciate the Sonic Missile cooldown reduction on this spec... real useful knowing the defensive passive that WAS tied to this is still in the Pyro tree...

 

Super useful, because Pyro out-dps' and builds so much more threat than any other spec right? That we would need a Sonic Missile 10 sec cdr with NO defensive passive

They didn't swap all these defenses to push Pyro out of the meta because it was so good prior? No of course not

Edited September 30, 2015 by Bonzenaattori