4.0 Warrior/Knight change discussion

[Skettitangles]

Why can't we get, instead of a DoT on MS/Ravage, stun immunity during the channel, or a reduced channel time, passively? Those would both be substantial improvements for PvP, whereas this DoT is probably just laughably bad.

 

I agree that the dot value will probably be weak but it will benefit PvE more so than a cc immunity. Personally, I'd love a shorter channel time/on the move passive for Carnage, but that would be mostly of benefit to PvP and not make a big difference to the PvE community

[Vodrin]

I can't see myself taking any of the new utilities. And as I plan to quickly level through the new content to 65 before PvPing on my sentinel main due to my already having 20K warzone comms I can live with them essentially weakening the character in the patch. It just shows that they could not figure out how to give additional utility points without further screwing up class balance. Laughable that this is the case.

[Ainianu]

Personaly i like the sound of the passive dps increase, assuming its not being added to other classes also. It did need just a little extra. The other changes i find a bit useless. The blade dash i feel completely unnecessary and would have preferred something else, but will see how it goes... it will certainly make huttball interesting in games with many knights and smugglers

 

I do think the combat/carnage passive needs replacing completely though for balance reasons... just make it something useful, someones suggestion of stun immune on master strikd would work

Edited September 18, 2015 by Ainianu

[PallyHk]

I'll leave this little ball of crap here.

 

Annihilate: -Getting the worst-

 

Annihilate's cooldown has been increase to 15 seconds, up from 12 seconds.

Devious Wounds now increases bleed damage by 5%, down from 10%, for 4.5 seconds up from 3 seconds.

Annihilate increases the bleed damage you deal by 5% for 4.5 seconds after use.

Deadly Saber is now granted at level 58, up from 26. I don't usually cover what levels you get abilities but I am scratching my head at this one.

Rupture now lasts 9 seconds, up from 6.

Force Rend now grants 3 Rage, lasts for 9 seconds, down from 15 seconds, has a 15 second cooldown and no longer costs Rage.

Enraged Charge has been removed.

Close Quarters has been removed.

Swift Demise has been redesigned: Juyo Form and Annihilator build two stacks at a time. In addition, Annihilate has a 50% chance to build Swift Demise when activated, increasing the damage your next Vicious Slash or Vicious Throw deals by 5% per stack. Stacks up to 2 times.

 

Carnage: Big one hit nerf

Sever now increases the critical strike damage bonus of Massacre and Devastating Blast by 10%, down from 30%.

 

Fury: Getting off easiest

Shii-Cho Mastery now increases armor penetration by 30%, down from 15%.

Dark Resonance renamed to Vehemence and increases critical strike damage of all attacks by 10%, down from 15%.

 

Also nerfed: PT Pryotechs, Ops healers, Vengeance is getting nerfed very hard.

Buffed: assassins. No surprise there.

 

I guess I won't be renewing my sub.

[ThermalKandalf]

And whats wrong with that? FC and FJ are not used in the Rotation anymore and only used for Mobility. Rend is the new Charge and give 3 or 4 Rage and its a dot at the same time. Anni longer CD is kinde regrettable but Rupture is at 9 sec again. Its not perfecct that true and to 2.10 is just a dream at that point and its not coming back

[PallyHk]

And whats wrong with that? FC and FJ are not used in the Rotation anymore and only used for Mobility. Rend is the new Charge and give 3 or 4 Rage and its a dot at the same time. Anni longer CD is kinde regrettable but Rupture is at 9 sec again. Its not perfecct that true and to 2.10 is just a dream at that point and its not coming back

 

Close quarters is the biggest quality of life improvement ability after permanent stealth. Rend has a much longer cooldown too.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Not supposed to discuss datamined stuff here, so I don't know where the information above might be from ;-)

 

But IF sth similar as that should make it into the game, I actually do like the Watchman/Anni rotation that's implied: It will be very fluent, there won't be any ability cooldowns and dot durations conflicting.

 

And Melt's/Rend's CD is reduced just like Leap's/Charge's was before, so no change here - except we still have Leap/Charge for closing larger gaps and Melt/Rend taking Leap's/Charge's place in the rotation does way more dps and you open with a dot right away on new targets. Downside being you don't apply OS/DS stacks with Melt/Rend, since it's a force attack, but I'll gladly live with that.

 

As I said, IF sth like that should even happen ^^

 

Increasing CD on Merciless/Annihilate is basically the only route to go if you want to make room for the more frequent Blade Dances/Ravages that 3.0. brought and the new ability in Melt/Rend - otherwise core abilities will always be conflicting and there will be no flow to this crammed imitation of a rotation.

 

Of course doing sth similar to 2.10. would be the very best solution but as everyones says by now: Sadly, not gonna happen, despite all the good suggestions made, even for including different versions of a new Melt/Rend ability...

Edited September 22, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[oofalong]

...sth...

 

What does sth mean? You used it enough that it wasn't a typo. Here are some thoughts on what it could stand for:

• Stuff that Hits
  
• Simple to Help
  
• Shell the Healer
  
• Straight to Hell
  
• Shut it, Henry (I don't know who Henry is)
  
• Oofalong is awesome (obviously the sth in this is silent so I choose not to include those letters).
  

[La_Frite]

And whats wrong with that? FC and FJ are not used in the Rotation anymore and only used for Mobility. Rend is the new Charge and give 3 or 4 Rage and its a dot at the same time. Anni longer CD is kinde regrettable but Rupture is at 9 sec again. Its not perfecct that true and to 2.10 is just a dream at that point and its not coming back

 

I play mostly PvP in Annihilation spec and Close Quarters is very useful in melee combat in order to interrupt cast. With Close Quarters, Annihilation spec has 2 interrupt skills.

[Ardarell_Solo]

What does sth mean? You used it enough that it wasn't a typo. Here are some thoughts on what it could stand for:

• Stuff that Hits
  
• Simple to Help
  
• Shell the Healer
  
• Straight to Hell
  
• Shut it, Henry (I don't know who Henry is)
  
• Oofalong is awesome (obviously the sth in this is silent so I choose not to include those letters).
  

 

Dude, obviously "Oofalong is awesome"!!! ^^

 

I play mostly PvP in Annihilation spec and Close Quarters is very useful in melee combat in order to interrupt cast. With Close Quarters, Annihilation spec has 2 interrupt skills.

 

Good point. But: Leap will always be ready now cause it's not part of the rotation anymore. So you'd "only" have to get 10m away from you target and then leap. Possibly after using Rend, which you can do from 10m. Or Stasis. Or DST. Or Blade Storm (I know, I know ^^)

Edited September 23, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I'll leave this little ball of crap here.

 

Annihilate: -Getting the worst-

 

Annihilate's cooldown has been increase to 15 seconds, up from 12 seconds.

Devious Wounds now increases bleed damage by 5%, down from 10%, for 4.5 seconds up from 3 seconds.

Annihilate increases the bleed damage you deal by 5% for 4.5 seconds after use.

Deadly Saber is now granted at level 58, up from 26. I don't usually cover what levels you get abilities but I am scratching my head at this one.

Rupture now lasts 9 seconds, up from 6.

Force Rend now grants 3 Rage, lasts for 9 seconds, down from 15 seconds, has a 15 second cooldown and no longer costs Rage.

Enraged Charge has been removed.

Close Quarters has been removed.

Swift Demise has been redesigned: Juyo Form and Annihilator build two stacks at a time. In addition, Annihilate has a 50% chance to build Swift Demise when activated, increasing the damage your next Vicious Slash or Vicious Throw deals by 5% per stack. Stacks up to 2 times.

 

I guess I won't be renewing my sub.

 

This is a HUGE buff to Anni/Watchman. What happened was, Force Rend now "Replaces" Force Charge. Meaning, You use Force Leap to close the distance, then you use Force Rend wherever you used to use Force Charge in the old rotation. You obviously did not read where we got new talents replacing Enraged Charge and Close Quarters that now affect the new Force Rend.

 

The Annihilate CD thing had to happen to smooth over the rotation, Annihilate now has a 9s CD at 4 stacks of Annihilator, which lines up with the 9s Duration on Rupture.

[Ardarell_Solo]

deleted coz stupid Edited September 23, 2015 by Ardarell_Solo

[Kyuuu]

Oh yay i just noticed there nerfinfg sever from 30% to 10% bonus damage for carnage, that DOT bleed on Ravage better make up the difference + some Edited September 23, 2015 by Kyuuu

[EilahFinn]

This is a HUGE buff to Anni/Watchman. What happened was, Force Rend now "Replaces" Force Charge. Meaning, You use Force Leap to close the distance, then you use Force Rend wherever you used to use Force Charge in the old rotation. You obviously did not read where we got new talents replacing Enraged Charge and Close Quarters that now affect the new Force Rend.

 

The Annihilate CD thing had to happen to smooth over the rotation, Annihilate now has a 9s CD at 4 stacks of Annihilator, which lines up with the 9s Duration on Rupture.

 

PVP-wise it is a great mobility skill to be able to charge a target on a short to medium range with an applied interrupt ability.

We will see if the trade off will be worth this loss of short range charge/ interrupt flexibility

Edited September 24, 2015 by EilahFinn

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

PVP-wise it is a great mobility skill to be able to charge a target on a short to medium range with an applied interrupt ability.

We will see if the trade off will be worth this loss of short range charge/ interrupt flexibility

 

Meh? I'd rather take a little bonus range on my second biggest Focus regenerator than a short range Force Charge. Now, If they wanted to put Icing on the cake, they would make the Inescapable Heroic utility do this.

 

Inescapable: Force Rend, Furious Strike, and Devastating Blast root the target for 1.5s and interrupt their current Channel or Cast. In addition, Crippling Slash roots the target for 3s.

 

That's worthy of a HEROIC spot. The current one is just meh, and unless you are stupid, you take Unbound and Undying for PvP, because they are such strong Utilities. In PvE you take Brooding and either Unbound, Expunging Camouflage, or Undying. You never touch Cloak of Annihilation, Blood Ward, or Inescapable. Blood Ward would be useful, if Saber Ward didn't have a 3m CD!

[g_mK]

I'll leave this little ball of crap here.

 

Annihilate: -Getting the worst-

 

Annihilate's cooldown has been increase to 15 seconds, up from 12 seconds.

Devious Wounds now increases bleed damage by 5%, down from 10%, for 4.5 seconds up from 3 seconds.

Annihilate increases the bleed damage you deal by 5% for 4.5 seconds after use.

Deadly Saber is now granted at level 58, up from 26. I don't usually cover what levels you get abilities but I am scratching my head at this one.

Rupture now lasts 9 seconds, up from 6.

Force Rend now grants 3 Rage, lasts for 9 seconds, down from 15 seconds, has a 15 second cooldown and no longer costs Rage.

Enraged Charge has been removed.

Close Quarters has been removed.

Swift Demise has been redesigned: Juyo Form and Annihilator build two stacks at a time. In addition, Annihilate has a 50% chance to build Swift Demise when activated, increasing the damage your next Vicious Slash or Vicious Throw deals by 5% per stack. Stacks up to 2 times.

 

Carnage: Big one hit nerf

Sever now increases the critical strike damage bonus of Massacre and Devastating Blast by 10%, down from 30%.

 

Fury: Getting off easiest

Shii-Cho Mastery now increases armor penetration by 30%, down from 15%.

Dark Resonance renamed to Vehemence and increases critical strike damage of all attacks by 10%, down from 15%.

 

Also nerfed: PT Pryotechs, Ops healers, Vengeance is getting nerfed very hard.

Buffed: assassins. No surprise there.

 

I guess I won't be renewing my sub.

 

1. We are not supposed to discussed datamined stuff.

 

2. Just because they change the rotation of Watchman doesn't mean that is getting worst. (Is actually getting better)

 

3. Reduction to surge passives is not instantly a nerf (there are other new damage abilities and also the change on stats)

[Flamenfrom]

I didn't believed biofail had it in them but apparently they are nerfing annihilation(dps output) even further.

[DynamiCtagez]

All classes seem to be getting a crit damage nerf (not only the ones mentioned in the quote above). Most likely due to higher overall crit changes due to gear chances and possibly higher base damage in the expansion. Or we'll end up with higher surge through gear because diminishing returns get changed, idk. Edited September 27, 2015 by DynamiCtagez

[Ardarell_Solo]

All classes seem to be getting a crit damage nerf (not only the ones mentioned in the quote above). Most likely due to higher overall crit changes due to gear changes and possibly higher base damage in the expansion. Or we'll end up with higher surge through gear because diminishing returns get changed, idk.

 

Yeah I noticed that, too. You can probably eliminate all reductions of crit damage from analyzing class balance, since it's done to pretty much every spec. Meaning specs that don't get reductions in that department are either not much affected by calculation changes for critical damage - or they could might be slightly buffed...

[Huggsnotdruggs]

I'll leave this little ball of crap here.

 

Annihilate: -Getting the worst-

 

Annihilate's cooldown has been increase to 15 seconds, up from 12 seconds.

Devious Wounds now increases bleed damage by 5%, down from 10%, for 4.5 seconds up from 3 seconds.

Annihilate increases the bleed damage you deal by 5% for 4.5 seconds after use.

Deadly Saber is now granted at level 58, up from 26. I don't usually cover what levels you get abilities but I am scratching my head at this one.

Rupture now lasts 9 seconds, up from 6.

Force Rend now grants 3 Rage, lasts for 9 seconds, down from 15 seconds, has a 15 second cooldown and no longer costs Rage.

Enraged Charge has been removed.

Close Quarters has been removed.

Swift Demise has been redesigned: Juyo Form and Annihilator build two stacks at a time. In addition, Annihilate has a 50% chance to build Swift Demise when activated, increasing the damage your next Vicious Slash or Vicious Throw deals by 5% per stack. Stacks up to 2 times.

 

Carnage: Big one hit nerf

Sever now increases the critical strike damage bonus of Massacre and Devastating Blast by 10%, down from 30%.

 

Fury: Getting off easiest

Shii-Cho Mastery now increases armor penetration by 30%, down from 15%.

Dark Resonance renamed to Vehemence and increases critical strike damage of all attacks by 10%, down from 15%.

 

Also nerfed: PT Pryotechs, Ops healers, Vengeance is getting nerfed very hard.

Buffed: assassins. No surprise there.

 

I guess I won't be renewing my sub.

 

Good riddance

[PallyHk]

The critical nerf is hitting everybody so that's universal.

 

But I do think that the Annihilation's increased cooldown from 6 sec to 9 sec will put in a huge damage decrease, unless they really, really buff up Rupture and Rend damage, which I have seen nothing about.

[Kakisback]

Combat/Carnage doesn't need a dot. Especially not on master strike/ravage. Why do they feel the need to keept on tacking dots onto abilities to tweek pve damage? Not a fan at all.

[meaniedevilface]

Overall I'm kind of indifferent about the changes. The only thing that irks me is the changing of Master Strike to "blade dance," which is significantly more cliche-sounding.

[Bonzenaattori]

Annihilate: -Getting the worst-

 

Annihilate's cooldown has been increase to 15 seconds, up from 12 seconds. Larger gap inbetween Merciless slashes at max stacks.

 

Not really a nerf. More like uptime breathing room

 

Devious Wounds now increases bleed damage by 5%, down from 10%, for 4.5 seconds up from 3 seconds.

Annihilate increases the bleed damage you deal by 5% for 4.5 seconds after use.

Kind of dog-sh*t passive.

Annihilate bleed damage amp is useless unless it either stacks or has snowball

 

Deadly Saber is now granted at level 58, up from 26. I don't usually cover what levels you get abilities but I am scratching my head at this one.

 

Gonna assume this is a Bioware inside joke or something

 

Rupture now lasts 9 seconds, up from 6.

Like Annihilate/Merciless, uptime breathing room

 

 

Force Rend now grants 3 Rage, lasts for 9 seconds, down from 15 seconds, has a 15 second cooldown and no longer costs Rage.

Could care less, doesn't exactly grant it higher priority

Just means swift demise has a bigger opportunity to give an even more dog-sh*t of an effect

 

Enraged Charge has been removed.

Close Quarters has been removed.

Losing an interrupt for a trash tier bleed... thx

 

Swift Demise has been redesigned: Juyo Form and Annihilator build two stacks at a time. In addition, Annihilate has a 50% chance to build Swift Demise when activated, increasing the damage your next Vicious Slash or Vicious Throw deals by 5% per stack. Stacks up to 2 times.

 

Because 10% damage amp on a skill that's been nerfed is soooo good.

Vicious slash so op now, i'll definately care about a 50/50 chance to increase the damage of a dog-sh*t ability.

 

Carnage: Big one hit nerf

Sever now increases the critical strike damage bonus of Massacre and Devastating Blast by 10%, down from 30%.

Obviously rescaling due to surge/crit being super piss easy to cap out in 4.0 in a single stat

 

Fury: Getting off easiest

Shii-Cho Mastery now increases armor penetration by 30%, down from 15%.

Gonna assume this is supposed to be down to 15%, it's already 30% armor pen. So a nerf. Yeah armor pen is a big deal

 

Dark Resonance renamed to Vehemence and increases critical strike damage of all attacks by 10%, down from 15%.

Re-scaling again.

 

Also nerfed: PT Pryotechs, Ops healers, Vengeance is getting nerfed very hard.

Buffed: assassins. No surprise there.

 

Dog-**** changes to push the Consolar/Inquisitor meta even harder... no surprises there.

Dont know why anybody cares about Pyro nerfed... 3.0 was a nerf for pyro that nearly killed the spec.

 

What did you expect when you have people with 0 game sense that are developing your game...

Edited October 8, 2015 by Bonzenaattori

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

*Gigantic Snip*

 

Annihilation is getting a major buff in 4.0... No more are the days of Leaping Backwards when fighting the Core in Revan. We now are going closer to our roots as a DoT spec with low duration high DPS DoT's. And the Swift Demise change is pretty nice, because it grants us another new filler that deals decent damage. Vicious Slash can hit for like 6k-7k Crits.