Playing anything beside FoTM is toxic

[JourrnoRush]

I've noticed.

 

If the team has a merc and the other team has mostly OP classes, the merc team loses.

 

If one team has merc and OP classes vs sniper and OP classes, the sniper team loses.

 

I've yet to see a match prove this otherwise. Its not the player's fault of course, just their class.

 

I actually feel bad queue dodging them because they do cause losses due to their class

[Ryako]

more or less what i meant

 

Due to the nature of Reg WZ, any compitent player with the right gear, in the proper circumstances (with healer/being carried/ not being focused) can thrive.

 

The real issue can be more easily identified in a 4v4 *ranked environment where you are paired both with and against players who generally understand their class and are confident enough to compete on a more serious level.

 

I personally have no problem with counters, even hard counters are ok under controlled circumstance. But there is no logical justification for allowing 3 sub classes the hard counter every other class in the game.

 

This is neglect from BioWare. They either don't give a ****, or still have not figured out how balance works.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

Due to the nature of Reg WZ, any compitent player with the right gear, in the proper circumstances (with healer/being carried/ not being focused) can thrive.

 

The real issue can be more easily identified in a 4v4 *ranked environment where you are paired both with and against players who generally understand their class and are confident enough to compete on a more serious level.

 

I personally have no problem with counters, even hard counters are ok under controlled circumstance. But there is no logical justification for allowing 3 sub classes the hard counter every other class in the game.

 

This is neglect from BioWare. They either don't give a ****, or still have not figured out how balance works.

 

 

4v4 was a mistake, a mistake the game is paying even now

[lavatsunami]

I never understood why the concept of arena existed in the first place. MMO's made a mistake when, from the ground up, they didnt find a way to split pvp and pve. In my opinion, they make the same mistake in not splitting regular pvp from arena. Things that are OP in arena, aren't op in regs. Classes/specs that work fine in regs, don't work in arena. It's near impossible to balance regular pvp in itself, but add pve on to that, and add arena on to that and you have yourself a cluster****.

 

What's the solution to all that? not really sure, tbh. separating pve and pvp values would be a start, but what about those who want more competitive pvp? I dont even know if cross server and ranked warzones (no arenas at all) would be the answer. You create a serious problem when you ask for more competitive pvp because whatever flaws in the balance system there are get ripped wide open in an arena setting.

 

If you could legitimately find a way to split the values and the moves allowed between pve, regular pvp and arena, then you would have a solution. that would be a coding nightmare though. However, this is the way it should have been approached from the beginning with any mmo having these concepts.

 

That way pve would have its own balance sphere, regular pvp would have its own balance sphere, and so would arena.

 

As an example, ive seen multiple posts complaining about madness sorc dps in pve. but they can't touch it because of how well sorcs are doing in pvp, and vice versa for many other classes.

Edited August 26, 2015 by lavatsunami

[Transcendent]

This is neglect from BioWare. They either don't give a ****, or still have not figured out how balance works.

 

It is the same combat team that "balanced" Warhammer Online iirc. Just search for information on Google to see how well that went balance wise, you'll find your answer.

[Floplag]

At this point i think we can safely say FOTY.

You know all games have balance issues when new content comes out, but they usually dont last a year, that is where TOR has dropped the ball.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

At this point i think we can safely say FOTY.

You know all games have balance issues when new content comes out, but they usually dont last a year, that is where TOR has dropped the ball.

 

 

if balance would depends on cartel market, stay assured, we would have the perfect game

[AlrikFassbauer]

even in regs mercs are tunneled worse than any other class.

 

Exception : Gunslingers. Which are equally on par with Commandos right now in that.

 

I've noticed.

 

If the team has a merc and the other team has mostly OP classes, the merc team loses.

 

If one team has merc and OP classes vs sniper and OP classes, the sniper team loses

 

I recently had an Arena. Level 32.

Me, Gunslinger, 2 Commandois, 1 Scoundrel. Other side : FOTM.

At the end of the match the Scoundrel wrotze that we should practise more, and one Commando wrote that "DPS was ****", probably directed at me - and that although the community appears to believe that Commandos are very good in doing damage.

Edited August 27, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[madtycoon]

I never understood why the concept of arena existed in the first place. MMO's made a mistake when, from the ground up, they didnt find a way to split pvp and pve. In my opinion, they make the same mistake in not splitting regular pvp from arena. Things that are OP in arena, aren't op in regs. Classes/specs that work fine in regs, don't work in arena. It's near impossible to balance regular pvp in itself, but add pve on to that, and add arena on to that and you have yourself a cluster****.

 

What's the solution to all that? not really sure, tbh. separating pve and pvp values would be a start, but what about those who want more competitive pvp? I dont even know if cross server and ranked warzones (no arenas at all) would be the answer. You create a serious problem when you ask for more competitive pvp because whatever flaws in the balance system there are get ripped wide open in an arena setting.

 

If you could legitimately find a way to split the values and the moves allowed between pve, regular pvp and arena, then you would have a solution. that would be a coding nightmare though. However, this is the way it should have been approached from the beginning with any mmo having these concepts.

 

That way pve would have its own balance sphere, regular pvp would have its own balance sphere, and so would arena.

 

As an example, ive seen multiple posts complaining about madness sorc dps in pve. but they can't touch it because of how well sorcs are doing in pvp, and vice versa for many other classes.

 

Yeah, but I don't think you can separate abilities to do one thing in PvP and one thing in PvE. It becomes confusing to new players. You want to know why very few tanks guard swap? Because guard has a different use in PvE. If guard was a forced and learned part of leveling a tank integrated into the PvE meta the same way as its used in PvP, more tanks would guard swap.

 

Things like damage ability stuns weaker creatures, but doesn't stun things in pvp and might slow instead or some **** is confusing. Maybe not to a veteran MMO player who might understand, but a new player who has limited experience isn't going to read all that ****. You have to make the game's entry PvP skill level be easy and similar to what they learned while leveling, so people will have fun and continue to PvP. If a player has to relearn everything just to have fun in PvP after they've already learned it one way in PvE, they are going to be less likely to even do PvP.

[BenduKundalini]

My favorite thing is that FOTM players will trash talk other players such as mercs when they get focused and hammered and don't get off any DPS because they are kitting for their lives and tell you how bad you are.

 

Yet these same morons when focused die in similar fashion. There is no class really that can survive being 4 man attacked/ganked, sure sins can stealth out but non-stealth classes are dead if 4 DPS are determined to kill them.

 

I always find it amusing that its always blamed on the teammate and is his fault when hes focused and dies first and not the fault of the other DPS who cant stick on their target and kill him faster. Maybe just maybe the other teams DPS was better and the reason the focused person died was because you took to long to kill your target.

 

Spot on mate. Plus, asking for guard or even a mere bubble would be outlandish, right?

[ForceWelder]

Mercs / Mando have no place in 4 v 4.

 

As for 8 v 8. They have a place. But that place is in the heart of a fight. Without stealth, reasonable focus breaks, or reasonable stealth detection, they are horrible with solo node defense or solo node attack.

 

So how do mercs / mandos fair well in 8 v 8? First, you can't charge into the attack. I always make it a point to be a little slow out of the gate. Let my team mates initiate the attacks or be attacked. I then support them. Or depending on the map, I will try to go around the fight, and hit the rear line. This is generally were your healer(s) are and any interruption you can do to their healing helps your team considerably.

 

Once the node is secured you haul behind to the next node where the fight has likely shifted.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

In huttball, your job is to kill the opposing ball handler or help peel for your own. Being the ballhander is an act of suicide for merc / mandos. They simply don't have any tools that make them acceptable for this role..

[Floplag]

i would argue actually that playing fotm(y) is what is toxic.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

i would argue actually that playing fotm(y) is what is toxic.

 

 

yes so i ned to abandon my sorc because u think is toxic, can't wait merc become OP, than i will laugh hadly

[foxmob]

yes so i ned to abandon my sorc because u think is toxic, can't wait merc become OP, than i will laugh hadly

 

I think his point is that everyone's playing their sorc, sin or PT. speaking from experience on the VG/PT, that AC was underrepresented on the leaderboards the first 3 seasons, and that's with the existence of dongle cleave. s4-6, they're all over the place.

[Floplag]

yes so i ned to abandon my sorc because u think is toxic, can't wait merc become OP, than i will laugh hadly

 

#missedthepoint

[Floplag]

I think his point is that everyone's playing their sorc, sin or PT. speaking from experience on the VG/PT, that AC was underrepresented on the leaderboards the first 3 seasons, and that's with the existence of dongle cleave. s4-6, they're all over the place.

 

#gotthepoint

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

#gotthepoint

 

#itssocooltypingBSafterthatcrappy#symbol

[Floplag]

#itssocooltypingBSafterthatcrappy#symbol

 

Does it matter how I list it? He got it, you didn't, now your butthurt. Get over it

Edited August 27, 2015 by Floplag

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

Does it matter how I list it? He got it, you didn't, now your butthurt. Get over it

 

i love you ppl. You think actually i give a **** what u saying, no i don't. Now pls go whine to another thread

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

I think his point is that everyone's playing their sorc, sin or PT. speaking from experience on the VG/PT, that AC was underrepresented on the leaderboards the first 3 seasons, and that's with the existence of dongle cleave. s4-6, they're all over the place.

 

ofc they are, with 3.0 they literally can 3 shot ppl to 100% to 0 in less than 4 seconds. While other burst spec are not even close on doing that. Do not worry because the 99% of ppl who whine h24, just do not want to re roll, but if their class one day become OP stay aassured they will stop to cry, At least i want balance between all classes, not only my favourite ones. all my threads are forgotten, meanwhile these BS threads got hundreds of views and replys in less than 10 minutes

[Floplag]

i love you ppl. You think actually i give a **** what u saying, no i don't. Now pls go whine to another thread

 

...and yet you were the one that made the comment about it, go figure, lol

The irony of you commenting on other people whining is hilarious though

Try to keep up then pop off cupcake

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

...and yet you were the one that made the comment about it, go figure, lol

The irony of you commenting on other people whining is hilarious though

Try to keep up then pop off cupcake

 

uir one of the notorius crying kids all know you, now, i suggest to stop paying monthly, tears can be free

[Zoom_VI]

i would argue actually that playing fotm(y) is what is toxic.

 

From a game design standpoint FOTM is a good thing as long as the FOTM changes. FOTM forces players to change stratagies to deal with the FOTM class, and when the FOTM changes the players have to change stratagies, keeping the meta lively and preventing stagnation.

 

Unfortunately in SWTOR the FOTM only changes every 6 months to a year.

[Floplag]

uir one of the notorius crying kids all know you, now, i suggest to stop paying monthly, tears can be free

 

Youre so cute when you are angry you know that?

 

Tell me this cupcake, what have i EVER "cried" about.. lets see, ill give you a list to help get you started since it seem you havent had your coffee yet.

#1 Mercs having surviavability in pvp.. well thats fact we all know it.

#2 PVP balance is crap, once again well known fact.

Help me out here when you get to what im supposedly "crying" about cause so far all ive ever said is 100% true.

 

I still ran my Merc out there into the FOTM wannabees and got the job done so tell me when you get to the crying part. Or just go away, i think i would prefer that actually. You accuse other people of things you do like the hypocrite you are and run diarrhea of the mouth l claiming not to care to sound all tough when we both know you have less fortitude than a common kitten. You say you dont care, i really dont, thats the difference between us.

 

Now go home and let the adults speak little man, your diaper needs changing

[Floplag]

From a game design standpoint FOTM is a good thing as long as the FOTM changes. FOTM forces players to change stratagies to deal with the FOTM class, and when the FOTM changes the players have to change stratagies, keeping the meta lively and preventing stagnation.

 

Unfortunately in SWTOR the FOTM only changes every 6 months to a year.

 

Well said, its when it gets stagnant that it becomes problematic.