Heal wins

[Raazmir]

Ok, here is the constructive criticism.

 

When your team is putting up 600k-1mil for EACH dps rather than total over a match, you're doing enough to gauge whether there are too many heals.

 

If you're doing less than that in a full length match, YOU ARE NOT PERFORMING ANYWHERE NEAR THE LIMITS OF YOUR CLASS!

 

You don't balance around poor performers.

[Zoom_VI]

Nowdays easier to CC healers and kill DPS.

 

It's always been that way. It just took till late 2015 for pugs to catch on.

[Asheris]

Meanwhile, win and loss is all about heal. Exclusively. Nothing else matters. Loads of fun, PvP. It's like watching paint dry.

 

No it's not. Empire on my server wins most matches because they have excellet dps who can...wait for it...focus! Two healers on my team get eaten alive.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Asheris

[JungianBlue]

As has been said, you kill healers with focus. You kill multiple healers with focus and CCs. A lot of the issue I see is DPS wasting their burst on a healer while the other healer(s) freecast. Then when they see it doesn't work, they go into stun mode. You have to stun and then burst.

 

Also, use your interrupts wisely. Seriously. And if you have the coordination and motivation to, throw the tech classes on force users and vice versa.

 

 

Totes need more of you in my VS matches. It's like everyone on my team is allergic to the damn doors -.-

 

And pylons and consoles and huttballs.

[Metthew]

ITT: what is burst?

[Hiro_Wildfire]

its understandable for arena's and hypergate + heals when your team is almost unkillable conpaired to the dis-organised dps on the other team.

 

Its not all about heal's though to win a game, the heal's are dephinately strong, especialy since they increased the TTK in 3.0 But they aren't the say all and end all. People treat them like haveing multiple healers currently is an automatic win.

 

Just my 2 cents, but it certainly isn't an automatic win.

[Cretinus]

As has been said, you kill healers with focus. You kill multiple healers with focus and CCs. A lot of the issue I see is DPS wasting their burst on a healer while the other healer(s) freecast. Then when they see it doesn't work, they go into stun mode. You have to stun and then burst.

 

Also, use your interrupts wisely. Seriously. And if you have the coordination and motivation to, throw the tech classes on force users and vice versa.

 

 

 

 

And pylons and consoles and huttballs.

 

What your trying to say here is that 6-8 DPS will have to work in a highly coordinated manner with focus and CC and swaps at the right time in order to shut down 2 healers who, apart from cross healing each other, don't have to coordinate anything.

Perhaps you didn't know, but PvP healers are not supposed to require beforehand planning and coordination on TS in order to get killed. They are no PvE bosses.

And if, as a matter of principle, two uncoordinated healers are strong enough to force opposing teams to go premade, then heal is obviously op.

 

This is called --- LACK OF BALANCE ---

Edited August 23, 2015 by Cretinus

[xxIncubixx]

What your trying to say here is that 6-8 DPS will have to work in a highly coordinated manner with focus and CC and swaps at the right time in order to shut down 2 healers who, apart from cross healing each other, don't have to coordinate anything.

Perhaps you didn't know, but PvP healers are not supposed to require beforehand planning and coordination on TS in order to get killed. They are no PvE bosses.

And if, as a matter of principle, two uncoordinated healers are strong enough to force opposing teams to go premade, then heal is obviously op.

 

This is called --- LACK OF BALANCE ---

 

this.

/10this

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

Heal is fine tbh

[jedcjedcjedc]

What your trying to say here is that 6-8 DPS will have to work in a highly coordinated manner with focus and CC and swaps at the right time in order to shut down 2 healers who, apart from cross healing each other, don't have to coordinate anything.

Perhaps you didn't know, but PvP healers are not supposed to require beforehand planning and coordination on TS in order to get killed. They are no PvE bosses.

And if, as a matter of principle, two uncoordinated healers are strong enough to force opposing teams to go premade, then heal is obviously op.

 

This is called --- LACK OF BALANCE ---

 

A good DPS takes more than one person to kill it, why would the class whose job it is to keep people ALIVE just roll over and die to your single uncoordinated DPS? This post makes me inclined to believe you're on of those who just got frustrated because they've had bad matches. Healers and tanks have always required planning to take down. This tank is guard swapping the DPS that are assaulting our pylon? hmm, how do i deal with this situation? By planning and enacting a strategy. I have had matches in arena where we go up against teams with healers and a tank plenty of times. Sure sometimes we lose, sometimes we get outplayed, but a lot of the time it is a manageable situation. I specifically PLAN with my teammates before hand, telling them to get 2 dps on the healer and I will DoT up the tank and keep him occupied. It doesn't hurt if the healers decide they want to stick close to the tank (a surprising amount of teams all stay clustered together throughout the match) and allow you to get in some extra AoE damage.

 

In closing, I tend to be on the side of the healers on this one. Even on my Jugg ( the class pretty much everyone says is meh and middle of the road) I can at the very least shut down the healer and force him focus on himself. With my Sorc or Merc, I can completely shut them down. This leads me to believe that something else is going wrong in your matches that doesn't directly relate to the healer/s.

[xxIncubixx]

A good DPS takes more than one person to kill it, why would the class whose job it is to keep people ALIVE just roll over and die to your single uncoordinated DPS? This post makes me inclined to believe you're on of those who just got frustrated because they've had bad matches. Healers and tanks have always required planning to take down. This tank is guard swapping the DPS that are assaulting our pylon? hmm, how do i deal with this situation? By planning and enacting a strategy. I have had matches in arena where we go up against teams with healers and a tank plenty of times. Sure sometimes we lose, sometimes we get outplayed, but a lot of the time it is a manageable situation. I specifically PLAN with my teammates before hand, telling them to get 2 dps on the healer and I will DoT up the tank and keep him occupied. It doesn't hurt if the healers decide they want to stick close to the tank (a surprising amount of teams all stay clustered together throughout the match) and allow you to get in some extra AoE damage.

 

In closing, I tend to be on the side of the healers on this one. Even on my Jugg ( the class pretty much everyone says is meh and middle of the road) I can at the very least shut down the healer and force him focus on himself. With my Sorc or Merc, I can completely shut them down. This leads me to believe that something else is going wrong in your matches that doesn't directly relate to the healer/s.

 

Because thats what a tank is there for? right now you have healers that can withstand 2 dps on them... throw in a guard and its just hilariously broken. Or throw in a another healer for cross healing and now you need 4 dps coordinated to even have a small chance of killing them. 2 healers + guard just forget it.

 

Healers should depend on tanks to survive or taunts etc, and not just stand there like nothing is happening just healing everyone to full health barely even using their class resource... It has come to the point that its actually easier to kill a dps or even a tank then the healer.

 

I was taking your post seriously until the part where you said MERC...

Edited August 23, 2015 by xxIncubixx

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

I was taking your post seriously until the part where you said MERC...

It's not hard, trust me.

[masterceil]

Or throw in a another healer for cross healing and now you need 4 dps coordinated to even have a small chance of killing them.

 

Have you tried mezzing Healer A, then smash on Healer B? If A breaks the mezz, cool, they used their breaker and you can stun them again for 4-6 seconds and have another few globals to smash on Healer B. If they don't... Don't even need stun, just finish smashing Healer B and then smash on Healer A. Still doable with two good DPS.

 

Note: My main PVP toon these days is a 60 Seer, and I'm starting to get somewhat decent at it (even with only 5 piece of DR so far). I can keep myself alive through one DPSer that knows what they're doing (I even manage to kill the ones that don't...). I can sometimes stay alive for a while with two DPSers swinging at me - staying close to full if someone else is healing me as well. But yeah, two good DPSers can still burn me down even with a cross-healer.

 

So totes doable. L2P.

[jedcjedcjedc]

because thats what a tank is there for? right now you have healers that can withstand 2 dps on them... throw in a guard and its just hilariously broken. Or throw in a another healer for cross healing and now you need 4 dps coordinated to even have a small chance of killing them. 2 healers + guard just forget it.

 

Healers should depend on tanks to survive or taunts etc, and not withstand all kind of damage. It has come to the point that its actually easier to kill a dps or even a tank then the healer.

 

That line of thinking would work on world pvp, but since that doesnt exist in this game ...

 

I was talking your post seriously until the part where you said MERC...

 

what, you don't think Merc can do damage? they may be squishier then a pre-buff sorc, but that doesn't mean they can't take 1/3 of your health in a GCD

 

Anyway, people don't seem to be thinking about these things rationally. It basically all boils down to people wanting 1 dps = 1 dead healer. It should never be this way (even though it really kind of is like that right now for most dps classes), so why should you need less than 3 dps to take out 3 healers? The whole crossheals argument never made sense to me anyway. a healer that can afford to crossheal is a healer that isn't being hit. One example of this is switching it over to a dps perspective. If I am attacking you and the switch to another target for whatever reaon, I am no longer damaging you. I know, obvious, right? The same thing goes with crosshealing. If I'm healing you, I'm not healing myself and vice-versa. The first targets of (almost) every dps on your team should be the enemy healers, so how can 5-7 (or 8, who knows with this matchmaking) DPS not get on 3 healers? Snipers, PT's, Ops, Sins, Mercs (your favorite ), and L Sorcs can all consistently take huge chunks out of your HP (madness will just pressure you down till you die, naturally), while most big healing skills are channeled or cast (this leads me down another whole route of discussion about using interrupts, but that's another story).

 

Look at it this way. Imagine you and some friends are in voice chat and you need to take down some healers. it goes something like this: 2 people chime in that they're on blaster, 2 others call saber, and shortly after you usually have 2 dead healers. This is one of the things that leads me to believe that the problem is not with the healing but the coordination/communication of the team

[Cretinus]

Have you tried mezzing Healer A, then smash on Healer B? If A breaks the mezz, cool, they used their breaker and you can stun them again for 4-6 seconds and have another few globals to smash on Healer B. If they don't... Don't even need stun, just finish smashing Healer B and then smash on Healer A. Still doable with two good DPS.

 

Note: My main PVP toon these days is a 60 Seer, and I'm starting to get somewhat decent at it (even with only 5 piece of DR so far). I can keep myself alive through one DPSer that knows what they're doing (I even manage to kill the ones that don't...). I can sometimes stay alive for a while with two DPSers swinging at me - staying close to full if someone else is healing me as well. But yeah, two good DPSers can still burn me down even with a cross-healer.

 

So totes doable. L2P.

 

People know about mezz, people know about stun, people know that guard has a range, people know what focus is etc. etc. etc. The reason why people are more and more complaining about healers is not that people are not aware of these trivialities. They are complaining because the trivialities only work if carried out by a premade team on TS with loads of coordination. People don't think that it's legit to have to organize themselves in a premade team with 8 really good players, coordinated, on TS etc. only to be able to shut down two mediocre cross healers who themselves don't have to organize anything.

 

So please be so kind and stop giving lectures on banalities.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Cretinus

[xxIncubixx]

Have you tried mezzing Healer A, then smash on Healer B? If A breaks the mezz, cool, they used their breaker and you can stun them again for 4-6 seconds and have another few globals to smash on Healer B. If they don't... Don't even need stun, just finish smashing Healer B and then smash on Healer A. Still doable with two good DPS.

 

Note: My main PVP toon these days is a 60 Seer, and I'm starting to get somewhat decent at it (even with only 5 piece of DR so far). I can keep myself alive through one DPSer that knows what they're doing (I even manage to kill the ones that don't...). I can sometimes stay alive for a while with two DPSers swinging at me - staying close to full if someone else is healing me as well. But yeah, two good DPSers can still burn me down even with a cross-healer.

 

So totes doable. L2P.

 

lol so this all comes down to ... l2p, dps are bads and healers are awesome and best players world.

[TeaSeeOh]

What your trying to say here is that 6-8 DPS will have to work in a highly coordinated manner with focus and CC and swaps at the right time in order to shut down 2 healers who, apart from cross healing each other, don't have to coordinate anything.

Perhaps you didn't know, but PvP healers are not supposed to require beforehand planning and coordination on TS in order to get killed. They are no PvE bosses.

And if, as a matter of principle, two uncoordinated healers are strong enough to force opposing teams to go premade, then heal is obviously op.

 

This is called --- LACK OF BALANCE ---

 

By this logic, all healers in any PvP game are broken and lack balance. This will always be the case, and always has been for all the MMOs I've played.

 

No this isn't the problem with PvP. The problem is that Bioware for some reason, in their incredible wisdom, thought that increasing the amount of non-castable, instant heals each healer class has was a good idea. It seems the team that did the Warhammer PvP learned nothing from the frustration of Rune Priest sillyness. The days of a healer running around in *********** circles spamming their buttons were the greatest of times. Now I get to relive it.

 

Further, what's worse is that Bioware decided to cave to the numerous DPS players crying their DoT specs aren't any good in PvP, because they get countered by cleanse. Now we have a bunch of uncleansable DoTs in PvP that can't be beaten by something that should naturally beat it. Instead we get a higher heal value to compensate for the guaranteed damage the DoT is going to continuously do. Hell, it got so bad that Bioware even put a minor heal on the cleanse ability. It's quite comical, honestly.

 

Heals are so atrociously broken in this game, the moment you enter Player vs. Player you're struck with a "Trauma" debuff that reduces heal effectiveness by 35% right off the bat. That's pretty crazy.

Edited August 25, 2015 by TeaSeeOh