Faceroll Healing

[Tarackian]

I know I'm not the first person to say this and I won't be the last, but healing, especially when combined with guard, is way over the top right now. It's, frankly, ridiculous.

 

It's fairly common to participate in a complete warzone match where the highest number of kills on either side is in the single digits. I'm typing this right now because I was just in a full voidstar match with just 1 kill on either side. ONE.

 

This isn't fun. You can have the best gear possible as a DPS and the ridiculous amount of healing can make it seem like you're swinging a wiffle bat at an elephant.

 

The amount of healing isn't the only problem; it's also how insanely easy it is to heal while having barely any idea what you're doing.

 

You can be a completely raw rookie keyboard turner but still pump out a massive amount of healing by rolling your face on your keyboard. When you add a competent tank with guard into the mix, healers become nigh invincible.

 

Maybe you don't think dps should not be able to kill a healer by themselves, but surly it shouldn't take an entire team to kill a single healer. If the other team has 2 or 3 healers, you can forget killing anyone.

 

If you zone into a warzone where both teams have 2 heals and 2 tanks, you might as well quit because you'll be bored out of your mind.

 

If you zone into a warzone where the other team has heals but you don't, you might as well quit because you'll get slaughtered. It doesn't matter how good your DPS is. The team with heals can easily outlast you at objectives.

 

Arena matches where one or both sides have 2-3 healers are also far more common now than they were before.

 

Healers who were genuinely good at their class no longer shine in the way they once did because it's just so easy now. There's hardly any separation between good and bad.

 

The sad thing is I know we can't expect to see any changes between now and the next expansion which is just two months away.

[Sanke]

"I know I'm not the first person to say this and I won't be the last, but healing, especially when combined with guard, is way over the top right now. It's, frankly, ridiculous."

 

Healers are not op with guard, there are ways to neutralise the combo of tank-healer. I play all three specs, it normally comes down to the people you are with not combo of tank-healer.

 

"This isn't fun. You can have the best gear possible as a DPS and the ridiculous amount of healing can make it seem like you're swinging a wiffle bat at an elephant.

 

The amount of healing isn't the only problem; it's also how insanely easy it is to heal while having barely any idea what you're doing.

 

You can be a completely raw rookie keyboard turner but still pump out a massive amount of healing by rolling your face on your keyboard. When you add a competent tank with guard into the mix, healers become nigh invincible.

 

Maybe you don't think dps should not be able to kill a healer by themselves, but surly it shouldn't take an entire team to kill a single healer. If the other team has 2 or 3 healers, you can forget killing anyone."

 

A good healer is not a "keyboard turner." A good healer is some one who does well. The matchmaking is a SEPERATE ISSUE THAT HEALERS/DPS/TANKS HAVE NO CONTROL OVER.

[Storm-Cutter]

Maybe you should try healing in arenas where the other 7 players are dps and your three team-mates blindly take on 1 opponent each. You might reconsider how much power healers have when 4 DDs are bursting you down, OP.

 

"Ill be careful...."

"You'll be dead!"

 

Too many healers in any WZ is a matchmaking thing, not a underperforming / overpower thing.

[xxIncubixx]

... i love the replies in this type of threads... you make it sound tanks and healers dont have cc breakers ... Right now if there is 2 healers + guard its impossible to kill anyone. period. I have been on many warzones with single digits kills aswell. the only warzones where usually ends with 10+ kills its either no healers at all or only 1 healer per side.

 

Do people really like the pvp that this has become since 3.0?

 

i have seen warzones with 4 tanks and 4 healers, hell i even saw premades running 2 tanks and 2 healers... since there is not enough dps to kill anybody those premades win just because they cap a node first and or the other side has no healers whatsoever.

 

But in before... "terribad" , "l2focus" "l2p", "its balanced".

Edited August 19, 2015 by xxIncubixx

[Vodrin]

... i love the replies in this type of threads... you make it sound tanks and healers dont have cc breakers ... Right now if there is 2 healers + guard its impossible to kill anyone. period. I have been on many warzones with single digits kills aswell. the only warzones where usually ends with 10+ kills its either no healers at all or only 1 healer per side.

 

Do people really like the pvp that this has become since 3.0?

 

i have seen warzones with 4 tanks and 4 healers, hell i even saw premades running 2 tanks and 2 healers... since there is not enough dps to kill anybody those premades win just because they cap a node first and or the other side has no healers whatsoever.

 

But in before... "terribad" , "l2focus" "l2p", "its balanced".

 

While I agree that it is difficult to get kills against the rare team that comes in with 2 healers, 2 tanks, and 4 DPS, it is not impossible. Although it is nearly so with a pure pug team as focus fire and coordinating CC's gets real difficult. In 8v8 though you will end up with a situation where there is either only one tank or one healer on the node being primarily attacked, or there is a DPS guarding the off node alone. Either way there are things you can do to get a cap.

 

And also realize that tank/healer heavy teams may be tough to get kills/caps against, but they also will have no ability to push/cap a node themselves.

[DomiSotto]

I can only speak for a Sage, but from the perspective of a not-so great heals, 2 persistent DPS can kill me fairly fast, because I am slow with rotating the cc's and my kiting not the best. Rotating cc's and interrupts on the Trance will shut me down very fast.

 

Left to free cast, with 6 to 7 folks within range, as a single healer I will be losing people to focus fire of 2 to 3+. My heal rate will be on the order of 2200-2500. But the moment my teammates will start moving and get lured out into the open, my effectiveness will go down a lot, and I will be either forced out of cover or to stop healing, because I will chose to stay on the node.

 

A coordinated pure Execution Squad of 8 DPS will leave an inexperienced pug with multiple healers in the dust by swapping focus fire. Moreover, while 2 healers is a very powerful thing, 3 and upward becomes a problem of not enough DPS. I had been globaled before I got into any kind of cover when the Execution Squad runs on Mara's speed, and sends 2 melee over while the sniper knows his/her vision field. I have seen 2 mercs rotate nets on me...

 

I have seen tanks go down fast once the damage translated through the guard of an incapacitated healer adds to the damage on the tank's toon.

 

Where the DPS are willing, taking out a not so great heals ain't all that hard.

 

In the end of the day, what wins is always a cumulative of the higher skill and either fast thinking or the rules of thumb.

[Storm-Cutter]

I can only speak for a Sage.....

 

I pvp as Mando, op, scoundrel and sorc healers - It's pretty much the same more or less - burst heals, slow-and steady, HoTs, bubbles, trauma probes, whatever - but separate me from the tanks/ peels/ other healers and my rear end from the corner and hose me with stun, mezz, interrupt. DoTs and DPS - I'm gone in seconds.

[Vember]

I pvp as Mando, op, scoundrel and sorc healers - It's pretty much the same more or less - burst heals, slow-and steady, HoTs, bubbles, trauma probes, whatever - but separate me from the tanks/ peels/ other healers and my rear end from the corner and hose me with stun, mezz, interrupt. DoTs and DPS - I'm gone in seconds.

 

How do we do that? Everyone but Mara dps are cc immune, tanks and healers have more cc than the dps attacking them, heals from one healer are superior to the damage one dps can put out, so at a minimum you need two, three to four if there's guard involved. I don't ever see these healers that are "gone in seconds", ever. I keep seeing anecdotal posts, but the reality is, none of us are actually seeing healers die in warzones.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Vember

[jauvtus]

I pvp as Mando, op, scoundrel and sorc healers - It's pretty much the same more or less - burst heals, slow-and steady, HoTs, bubbles, trauma probes, whatever - but separate me from the tanks/ peels/ other healers and my rear end from the corner and hose me with stun, mezz, interrupt. DoTs and DPS - I'm gone in seconds.

 

Yeah, I play mando, op, scoundrel and sorc heals as well - also sent, mara, sin, PT dps regularly. It takes about 1% of the effort to be invincible as healer (even without guard) than to kill a healer.

[Jake_Chambers]

Bcuz dps is so hard, right?

[Loki_]

Played a sage healer since launch, i have every class and can play every spec better than 95% of the plebs out there. And right now I can say with confidence that healing with my sage has never been easier, its even easier now than it was at launch.

 

As long as you hit rejuvenate -> healing trance and rejuvenate -> wandering mend of cd you will get 3k+ hps every time in regs, you can fill the other globals with whatever the hell you like, deliverance, benevolence or bubble spam.

 

It needs twice as much effort with a scun or oper to maintain hots and aoe's and pull these numbers and commando / merc has to play like 5x harder to get those healing numbers.

 

Healing is not broken its just sorc / sage that needs a tone down as its skill requirement is extremely low right now.

[Bedell]

I can see your point with the sage heals being kinda O.P. atm. However I don't think that anybody can just faceroll the keyboard an be impossible to kill. Def if its a Merc/Mando heals, it takes a bit more to be hard to kill then just hitting abilitys. And if you know how to dps you can kill healers, sounds like you just keep getting really bad teams with crap dps.

[aerockyul]

I wish I was being put into these matches everyone's complaining about with the "easy" healing. 90% of the time I'm the only healer in the group, and it's always a group that does not peel or guard me, and about the same amount of time the other team is smart enough to focus the F out of me every single time my nameplate becomes visible. Doesn't matter if I'm on imp or pub side, either.

On the rare occasions where I get a tank that sticks with me and dps aren't deathmatching away from the group and/or objectives, healing is very easy. It just doesn't happen enough for me to be "bored" by those occasions, though.

[Cretinus]

I wish I was being put into these matches everyone's complaining about with the "easy" healing. 90% of the time I'm the only healer in the group, and it's always a group that does not peel or guard me, and about the same amount of time the other team is smart enough to focus the F out of me every single time my nameplate becomes visible. Doesn't matter if I'm on imp or pub side, either.

On the rare occasions where I get a tank that sticks with me and dps aren't deathmatching away from the group and/or objectives, healing is very easy. It just doesn't happen enough for me to be "bored" by those occasions, though.

 

Sounds like a serious l2p issue if you're having trouble on a healer.

[aerockyul]

Sounds like a serious l2p issue if you're having trouble on a healer.

 

I don't believe I'm great at PvP and have never said so, but I'm sure if I l2p I could stand up to five dps focusing me down like you can

 

My main point was the group healers are put into has more to do with how op a healer is or not, at least in my experience on Harbinger during the 3-4 hours I play in primetime.

[AlrikFassbauer]

of the plebs out there.

 

Should we now worship you, you mighty overlord ?

 

Sounds like a serious l2p issue if you're having trouble on a healer.

 

I don'tz believe you.

 

It rather sounds like Unranked ( aka "the Plebs" ) vs. Ranked to me ,. or even Solo Ranked vs. Group Ranked. The original poster seems to write about Ranked, wherwas the majority of those offering first-hand experience in this thread here seem to be in Unranked or in Solo Ranked..

 

Interestingly, first-hand experience from Group Ranked is seldom uttered. Ranked players mostly write comments like "L2P" instead. They often don't seem to want to write.

Edited August 19, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Kazz_Devlin]

I know I'm not the first person to say this and I won't be the last, but healing, especially when combined with guard, is way over the top right now. It's, frankly, ridiculous.

 

It's fairly common to participate in a complete warzone match where the highest number of kills on either side is in the single digits. I'm typing this right now because I was just in a full voidstar match with just 1 kill on either side. ONE.

 

This isn't fun. You can have the best gear possible as a DPS and the ridiculous amount of healing can make it seem like you're swinging a wiffle bat at an elephant.

 

The amount of healing isn't the only problem; it's also how insanely easy it is to heal while having barely any idea what you're doing.

 

You can be a completely raw rookie keyboard turner but still pump out a massive amount of healing by rolling your face on your keyboard. When you add a competent tank with guard into the mix, healers become nigh invincible.

 

Maybe you don't think dps should not be able to kill a healer by themselves, but surly it shouldn't take an entire team to kill a single healer. If the other team has 2 or 3 healers, you can forget killing anyone.

 

If you zone into a warzone where both teams have 2 heals and 2 tanks, you might as well quit because you'll be bored out of your mind.

 

If you zone into a warzone where the other team has heals but you don't, you might as well quit because you'll get slaughtered. It doesn't matter how good your DPS is. The team with heals can easily outlast you at objectives.

 

Arena matches where one or both sides have 2-3 healers are also far more common now than they were before.

 

Healers who were genuinely good at their class no longer shine in the way they once did because it's just so easy now. There's hardly any separation between good and bad.

 

The sad thing is I know we can't expect to see any changes between now and the next expansion which is just two months away.

I think your right on the devs thinking DPS shouldn't be able to kill healers in one on ones which is why we have an unbalance. True balance is every class being able to solo every other class. If you can't achieve that then you don't have balance. Now BW will tell you are not suppose to be able to solo every profession just not the way it was designed. perhaps that is the reason there exists a imbalance.

[Jake_Chambers]

Played a sage healer since launch, i have every class and can play every spec better than 95% of the plebs out there. And right now I can say with confidence that healing with my sage has never been easier, its even easier now than it was at launch.

 

As long as you hit rejuvenate -> healing trance and rejuvenate -> wandering mend of cd you will get 3k+ hps every time in regs, you can fill the other globals with whatever the hell you like, deliverance, benevolence or bubble spam.

 

It needs twice as much effort with a scun or oper to maintain hots and aoe's and pull these numbers and commando / merc has to play like 5x harder to get those healing numbers.

 

Healing is not broken its just sorc / sage that needs a tone down as its skill requirement is extremely low right now.

 

So much lies lol 3k hps everytime? K sure lol

[Dak_fireraker]

I play healers All of them: Sorc/Sage, Scoundrel/Operative, Merc/Commando & I've discovered 1 universal truth. You are only as good as the Team you find yourself on/Against. I've been in a warzone where my healer & 1 Tank held a node against 6 in a Cival war match for almost the entire match (that was just awesome wish I had recorded it) & I've been in warzones where I cant stay alive for more than 5 seconds on that very same Healer. That doesn't make my healers OP or healing easy. It Just means in that 1 instance (where we 2 held the node almost entirely by ourselves) I had a really good tank & we were playing against a not-very good team. To the OP I think you've just found yourself in a few bad groups. it happens. If DPS aren't focusing on the Healer (& I'm saying that as a healer knowing EXACTLY how not fun it is getting focused) then it will be a long match for you.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I just came across a tiny detail.

 

I'm quite sure I must be reading something wrong there, especially since I don't have all classes maxed out (some even sticking oin Lowbie levels), but this is what I've found :

 

First, the experience from the original poster :

 

It's fairly common to participate in a complete warzone match where the highest number of kills on either side is in the single digits. I'm typing this right now because I was just in a full voidstar match with just 1 kill on either side. ONE.

 

This isn't fun. You can have the best gear possible as a DPS and the ridiculous amount of healing can make it seem like you're swinging a wiffle bat at an elephant.

 

Second, my observation, a quote from a Gunslinger / Sharpshooter guide hosted by Dulfy :

 

5.) Flourish Shot

 

Flourish Shot is redesigned where it no longer gives its global armor penetration bonus. Instead, it’s changed to simply reduce the amount of healing by 20%. Honestly, this has much better use in PvP than PvE (which is very rare). With Penetrating Rounds taking care of the Armor Debuff, Flourish Shot officially becomes a useless skill.

 

Source : http://dulfy.net/2014/12/22/swtor-3-0-sharpshooter-gunslinger-guide-by-shulk/

 

Okay, if I interpret this right, then Gunslingers can reduce the healing a character gets by 20 % ? And no-one plays Gunslinger ?

 

If I interpret this right, then it's your own fault that healed characters cannot be taken down. By not playing Gunslingers.

 

I really have no idea if any other class has such an ability which reduces the amount of healing a character can get,

but if this ability here is really exclusive to Gunslingers, then the only thing I can say is this : LOL.

 

There is such an debuff - and no-one is able to use it !

Because no-one plays the class which has it !

 

If there are other classes having such an healing debuff as well, then I apologize.

[Vodrin]

Sentinal/marauders and tanks also have the ability to inflict trauma with some abilities (leg slash on mara/sent). Trauma is a universal 20% heal debuff.

 

Funny thing is that you are better off not using the heal debuff and just pumping out damage unless you are facing a group with good/multiple healers and then heal debuffing the focus target becomes very important (also very helpful in group ranked in my opinion, especially if the tank can applying allowing DPS to burst on a hard switch).

[aerockyul]

I play healers All of them: Sorc/Sage, Scoundrel/Operative, Merc/Commando & I've discovered 1 universal truth. You are only as good as the Team you find yourself on/Against. I've been in a warzone where my healer & 1 Tank held a node against 6 in a Cival war match for almost the entire match (that was just awesome wish I had recorded it) & I've been in warzones where I cant stay alive for more than 5 seconds on that very same Healer. That doesn't make my healers OP or healing easy. It Just means in that 1 instance (where we 2 held the node almost entirely by ourselves) I had a really good tank & we were playing against a not-very good team. To the OP I think you've just found yourself in a few bad groups. it happens. If DPS aren't focusing on the Healer (& I'm saying that as a healer knowing EXACTLY how not fun it is getting focused) then it will be a long match for you.

 

That was my feeling as well, and has been my experience for quite a long time

[Lalainnia]

TBH healing is easier than dpsing you have freedom in your rotations and pretty much unlimited resources as a scoundrel or sage. If there is currently anything thats the easiest to carry on it would be a healer then most likely a stealth class to cap objectives. Most things that get a healer killed in my personal experience is chasing some idiot teammate to heal them and end up being in an awful spot just screaming to get jumped on. Or simply attacked by the whole or majority of the team without support, now for me the second part isn't something thats needed to kill a healer but for some reason it's viewed as that it *should* be the way to kill any and every single play be they dps tank or healer. The biggest problem to that i'e personally found is that a lot and i mean a lot of dps either A. Don't know how to in fact dps need to either sit on a dummy or read their skill tree and B. the harder one pick a target with another dps and focus it down. Now the important stuff comes into play that I also feel is very important. Healers generally seem to know what abilities are being used against them mostly b/c there whole endgame is not dying and prevent people from dying so what better way then to know whats killing you?

 

Pretty much TLDR w/e its called DPS need to honestly work together and have another mindset other than being attack attack attack.

[themasterofevil]

I know I'm not the first person to say this and I won't be the last, but healing, especially when combined with guard, is way over the top right now. It's, frankly, ridiculous.

 

It's fairly common to participate in a complete warzone match where the highest number of kills on either side is in the single digits. I'm typing this right now because I was just in a full voidstar match with just 1 kill on either side. ONE.

 

This isn't fun. You can have the best gear possible as a DPS and the ridiculous amount of healing can make it seem like you're swinging a wiffle bat at an elephant.

 

The amount of healing isn't the only problem; it's also how insanely easy it is to heal while having barely any idea what you're doing.

 

You can be a completely raw rookie keyboard turner but still pump out a massive amount of healing by rolling your face on your keyboard. When you add a competent tank with guard into the mix, healers become nigh invincible.

 

Maybe you don't think dps should not be able to kill a healer by themselves, but surly it shouldn't take an entire team to kill a single healer. If the other team has 2 or 3 healers, you can forget killing anyone.

 

If you zone into a warzone where both teams have 2 heals and 2 tanks, you might as well quit because you'll be bored out of your mind.

 

If you zone into a warzone where the other team has heals but you don't, you might as well quit because you'll get slaughtered. It doesn't matter how good your DPS is. The team with heals can easily outlast you at objectives.

 

Arena matches where one or both sides have 2-3 healers are also far more common now than they were before.

 

Healers who were genuinely good at their class no longer shine in the way they once did because it's just so easy now. There's hardly any separation between good and bad.

 

The sad thing is I know we can't expect to see any changes between now and the next expansion which is just two months away.

 

Okay first off, good healers DON'T KEYBOARD TURN. Where did you even get this information? If you're a healer that keyboard turns, then you're dead.

 

Let me tell you that healing, while slightly easy, doesn't mean everybody who heals is good. I know a healer that is known by people on my server as one of the best sage healers. She's amazing at healing. She gets almost 3mil in most matches with upwards of 3k HPS. She beats any other healer unless she's being tunneled, which happens quite often since people know she's good.

 

Good healers can't FACEROLL THEIR KEYBOARD. Seriously. If you're facerolling your keyboard to heal, you're doing nothing productive for your team. Being a good healer is paying attention to your surroundings. Whats happening around you? Being a good healer is knowing which abilities to use and when. Such things like, use revivification on a full group to get the best healing out of that ability. Use roaming mend for fast burst healing. A good healer can survive some focus fire. On my sorc the other night, i had 1 balance sage, 1 assault commando, and 2 gunnery commandos that wanted my ***. Usually 3 of them would attack me but i outhealed literally all of their damage. I do the same thing on my operative. A good healer knows where and when to position. They also know how to use LOS effectively. If you can't LOS as a healer, then you might as well just die.

 

If the team you're fighting has a tank and a healer, if the tank is trash, the healer dies easily. Some tanks in this game are really really good and know how to peel and play the game. That's just life. Really good tanks use guard and stay in guard range, and they also PEEL for their heals with taunts and CC. Extra healers means extra CC. CC the other healers or attack them. If you have say 2 healers, get 1 dps on the one healer and some dps on the other. If you play a high burst class, you can keep the one healer occupied long enough to keep him from healing the tank and other healer. Try to push them into LOS from their healer and tank.

 

Heals in general are NOT op. Nor should they be nerfed in my opinion. It's just that many teams don't focus healers and so they blame that Heals are op because nothing dies. But then you look at how they play and they never attack a healer. Lets look at a healer like Hottie. She's pretty popular on Harbinger. Every game i get in against her, she's always running a premade, which is no big deal, but pretty much everybody knows who hottie is, so they want to kiss her *** and so she has 8 people peeling for her instead of 4 or so. If im against her, NOBODY EVEN ATTACKS HER. So thats why she always appears to be a god in regs. And sure, she is a good healer, but nobody even touches her for some reason. If 8 DPS focus someone like hottie, she CANNOT live through the burst.

[Tarackian]

Some of you, including the guy right above this, clearly didn't read what I said.

 

I said it -doesn't matter- if you're a keyboard turner. There's a critical mass of healing where it just doesn't matter. You can be -BAD- and still pump out over a million healing by just standing in one place and rolling your face on your keyboard.

 

I was just now in a Voidstar with 4 Sage healers on 1 side and 2 Sorc healers on the other, all of them with over 1.5 million healing, with an outlier of 2 million. Some of the DPS, including myself, had 1.5-2 million in damage too, but it doesn't matter.

 

The healers just stood on the cap points with a tank swapping guard and basically just spam their AOE heal and nothing else.

 

Every other warzone is like this now. It's one healer-fest right after another. Objectives and cap points rarely change hands because it's a healer stalemate.

 

Healers are the FOTM now.

 

I should be fair and point out that Sorc/Sage healers are the most faceroll followed by Ops/Scoundrels and lastly Mercs/Commandos at the bottom of the totem pole.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Tarackian