Star Wars is dogfighting not sniping.

[ReyCielo]

Star Wars was all about dog fighting, not sniping. So why are gunships so overpowered?

[caederon]

Star Wars was all about dog fighting, not sniping. So why are gunships so overpowered?

You overslept your shift. We were due for another useless, information-free, anti-gunship troll thread yesterday. If you don't keep up your quota, you're probably going to get fired.

 

Despon

[ReyCielo]

Not even a troll. Just seems kind of imbalanced.

[Bolo_Yeung]

GS were OPed much more than are now (and despite the nerfs - still most TDM boils down to GS/bomber fortesses, maybe because they want to give opponents a chance and not play the 'most OP' ship aka T2 scout)

Either learn to play pod scout and give some GS a nasty surprise (need much coordination and situational awareness... and prepare to be shoot down often anyway when enemy pilots are competent) or level a GS of your own and get used to GS-bomber team "deathmatches" (feeling more like chess matches).

Seriously... I agree with the author, but most GS pilots on forums are ganking on everyone who doesn't think 'proper' way,

 

 

By the way... few weeks ago I was put on igorelist because I dared to switch to T1 GS in domination match... and I (according to that person) shouldn't since I don't like GS-heavy matches.

Funny thing? Thar person was flying T1 GS during the whole match

Edited August 15, 2015 by Bolo_Yeung

[DakhathKilrathi]

You must be new to GSF. First of all, welcome to the game. It has a lot of depth and it's really a lot of fun once you learn how to play. Regarding your question:

 

No, [insert class here] is not overpowered or impossible to kill. You just haven't learned how yet.

There is a way to beat every ship in the game. Nothing is invincible. If you want help learning to deal with a specific type of ship, just ask! We're happy to help around here.

 

Generally speaking: scouts counter gunships, gunships counter bombers, bombers counter scouts. This doesn't mean that picking the counter means you're going to win, however. If you don't know what you're doing, you're still going to get killed.

 

You might want to check the guide that's from. In the future, rather than posting threads to whine about something because you don't understand what's going on, you might try asking for help instead. Most of us would be happy to help you learn how to play, but we see a lot of baseless whining about how overpowered one of the three viable ship classes is.

 

Now, are you interested in learning something, or are you only here to complain about something you don't actually understand in the first place? And I'm not trying to insult you in saying that, by the way. Your mention of dogfighting makes it clear that you don't understand the game mode very well. At no point should you be involved in an extended circle war with anyone. That's not what this game is.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[Gavin_Kelvar]

GS were OPed much more than are now (and despite the nerfs - still most TDM boils down to GS/bomber fortesses, maybe because they want to give opponents a chance and not play the 'most OP' ship aka T2 scout)

 

This is very true. They were outright broken when the ion love tap existed. Minimal energy use on their part to drain you of all your power and lock you out of recharging anything until they killed you. Things are pretty balanced now (except for how ion rail disproportionately hurts strikers, but they need a fairly large overhaul in general). Overall I think whatever balance pass they give that buffs strikers (provided it's a meaningful buff) will indirectly help make GS less powerful (namely because strikers will post buff, in theory, be a threat to them instead of free kill which means more ships putting pressure on them)

[ReyCielo]

How about in the future you don't come off as a pompous know-it-all? I know full well how to play, thus the frustration. It's why I left GSF in the first place. I want to like it more. It still hasn't been fixed. If you don't like my opinion state as much. My opinion isn't any less valid than your opinion of the state of GSF. That's not what this game is.... that's the entire point. I'm telling you what I think it should be. One-shotting mechanics in PVP are dumb. If I wanted to play a FPS where you just worry about sniping that's what I'd do. Aerial flight sims are about dog fights, not one shots. You like one-shot stuff cool. I disagree with that's how this particular game mode should be.

 

It would be like a sniper with an extended 35M range being able to one-shot a gap closing Jugg. You don't think if that was in regular PVP there would be a QQ storm? I'm not going to assume you love gunships either because I don't know you, don't know how good you are, or anything to that nature. That would be pretentious on my part. I just think its still broken. Nothing more, nothing less.

You must be new to GSF. First of all, welcome to the game. It has a lot of depth and it's really a lot of fun once you learn how to play. Regarding your question:

 

 

 

You might want to check the guide that's from. In the future, rather than posting threads to whine about something because you don't understand what's going on, you might try asking for help instead. Most of us would be happy to help you learn how to play, but we see a lot of baseless whining about how overpowered one of the three viable ship classes is.

 

Now, are you interested in learning something, or are you only here to complain about something you don't actually understand in the first place? And I'm not trying to insult you in saying that, by the way. Your mention of dogfighting makes it clear that you don't understand the game mode very well. At no point should you be involved in an extended circle war with anyone. That's not what this game is.

Edited August 15, 2015 by ReyCielo

[DakhathKilrathi]

I know full well how to play, thus the frustration.

Except you don't, either. You may think that you do, but everything you've said in this thread makes it clear that you don't understand the game as well as you claim to.

 

Aerial flight sims are about dog fights, not-one shots.

This isn't a flight sim. It's an arcade style game. There are three generally well balanced classes of ships, and all of them are necessary in any given match. Gunships exist to clear bombers and their mines, and if they don't do that, scouts die to the bombers. Scouts, meanwhile, are the counter to gunships. This isn't a difficult thing to understand.

 

Also, one-shots don't happen in most cases without Damage Overcharge. It's exceedingly rare without that, and it's not at all difficult to prevent the other team from getting DO.

 

So, once again: learn to play before you complain about how "overpowered" something is. Not only are you wrong, but you're being a poor sport about it.

 

 

Edit: Don't know where Damage Overcharge spawns at? Check out Drakolich's very detailed guide that shows where they can appear. Memorize these and keep gunships from getting them (which should be easy to do in a scout) and you don't have to worry about being killed in one shot anymore.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[Roostah]

How about in the future you don't come off as a pompous know-it-all?

 

Many an ace have left Ebon Hawk to get away from the "pompous one".

[DakhathKilrathi]

Many an ace have left Ebon Hawk to get away from the "pompous one".

 

Yes, how dare I try to help people learn to play. How dare I feel strongly about something I enjoy. And I definitely shouldn't try to make sure that new or inexperienced players don't get the wrong idea about how things work. Shame on me.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[Raansu]

Maybe I just suck, but every time I play gun ship I get wrecked by a scout. I don't really see how gun ships are OP when its pretty easy to counter them with a scout. Edited August 15, 2015 by Raansu

[DakhathKilrathi]

Maybe I just suck, but every time I play gun ship I get wrecked by a scout. I don't really see how gun ships are OP when its pretty easy to counter them with a scout.

 

No, this is accurate. A single scout of comparable skill or experience is enough to effectively remove a T1 GS from the match, either by killing them or keeping them moving. They don't handle pressure well at all.

 

The T3 (Jurg/Condor) is a different matter, in that it has more tools available for self-defense. It also lacks ion railgun, so without Damage Overcharge, it needs more time to kill pretty much anything.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DakhathKilrathi

[caederon]

I want to like it more. It still hasn't been fixed.

The thing is, it's not broken. It might not be the game you want it to be, but that doesn't make it broken. There is a good state of balance between the three viable ship classes. If the devs follow through on their intent to improve strike fighters, like Gavin pointed out a couple posts above this one, that will make GSF even better, give people more choices and make other ship classes less dominant. If, by some miracle, the devs also improve some of the underpowered components, it will further enhance balance and make different builds more viable.

 

You showed up here, spouted off a one-liner incendiary opinion and a loaded question (to which the answer is 'they aren't overpowered') in a climate where recently, nearly every single thread is being crapped up by ill-informed, whiny people calling for the removal of a whole class of ships or making easily debunked claims about how overpowered they are.

 

There have been many substantial discussions here about how to bring the ship classes into even greater balance, but the meta as it exists now is not dominated by any one ship class. In matches of equally skilled veteran pilots, there are at least 3 very competitive scout builds, 2 gunship builds, and 2 or 3 bomber builds. There is strong consensus here (maybe 100% agreement) that we all would love to see several strike fighter builds added to that list, and there is ostensibly some dev effort to make that happen. So with that all in place, you have a deep game with lots of tactical options.

 

If your objection is to getting one-shotted, then whine about the only situation in which it is possible for you to get one-shotted, which is when a gs has Damage Overcharge in TDM. Should DO be toned down to prevent that? Maybe, maybe not. There are risks, especially in a gunship, to acquiring DO. It often leaves you exposed, and when you get it, your name gets put up in big red letters basically telling all enemies 'this is the guy to kill.' Maybe DO should only offer 150% damage boost instead of double, I think there's some discussion to be had there. But claiming that it's a problem with gunships is not the way to go.

 

I don't know the math for sure, but there might be other ship builds that can one-shot with DO. Would a Proton Torpedo do it? What about burst lasers with a TT crit? Lots of builds can melt you before you have a chance to react when DO is involved.

 

Being obliterated by a T2 scout happens just as startlingly as being sniped by a gs. Given the amount of Evasion a T2 scout can put out, you can have no chance to hit them while they blow you away. Does this make them OP? Should we call for them to be removed from the game? Should we turn every single thread into a whine-fest about a particular ship class? Or should we learn techniques to deal with them and go about playing the game that the developers designed?

 

Despon

[RickDagles]

There are 3 core Flashfire/Sting builds, and all three of them counter Gunships.

 

1. TT/DF/BLC/cluster missile/running interference

Strengths: The extremely high evasion is a great counter to GS railgun shots. As an added bonus, it is very good at countering the other 2 Scout builds.

Weaknesses: Railgun sentry drone in TDM, mines/turrets in Domination.

 

2. TT or Booster Recharge or Blaster Overcharge/DF/BLC/pod/wingman

Strengths: Your DPS is greatly increased with pods, which can allow you to perform surprise "burst" kills on Gunships better than the previous build. With pods, suddenly mines/turrets are not such a big deal in Dom because you can kill them at a very safe distance.

Weaknesses: Gunship railgun shots will hit you a bit easier. You will lose dogfights to a well played BLC/cluster scout. Again, railgun drones still hurt in TDM.

 

3. TT/DF/Quad/pod/wingman

Strengths: Highest DPS means you can perform surprise kills very easily on Gunships and any other slow moving ships. In Domination you can kill most bombers at a safe distance away from mines/turrets (since the Quad range is longer than BLC).

Weaknesses: A well flown BLC scout counters you quite hard, especially if he has cluster missiles. A well flown Charged Plating bomber is also very hard to bring down.

 

 

Overall, the only thing Scout pilots have the right to complain about is the Bomber's Railgun Sentry drone. The Gunship is easy to counter. It would be cool to have a viable Strikefighter build that could counter railgun drones.

 

 

Try them all out and see what you like best.

Edited August 15, 2015 by RickDagles

[Laiov]

GS-bomber team "deathmatches" (feeling more like chess matches)

In chess, the material is capped throughout most of the match. Each match starts with two rooks per side, two bishops per side, eight pawns etc, and some of these pieces are also trapped in the early game. Games don't have 10 rooks and 6 bishops as this would skew the gameplay in a mechanical sense. By this measure it seems like GSF games tend not to have piece development or strategic progression (early game, middle game, late game), aside from simple conventions such as T1/T3 scout rush, telemetry pop, switch in domination games.

 

When the average player does encounter something like that, it's probably just a premade queuing to stomp pugs, which means it has been opted for instead of required. Whereas in chess you have development through stages of each game regardless of who is playing because the rules construct that scenario.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Laiov

[wvwraith]

Isn't there like 20 of these threads already with the same complaints. No offense to ground pvpers, but there's quite a few of them that come in to gsf play a few games and come here and complain. Sorry guys, you're not going to come in day one and start wrecking people like you do in ground pvp.

[tommmsunb]

They're not op, you're just bad. As a scout pilot I actually feel like when they are all alone, they're weaker than strike fighters. Edited August 15, 2015 by tommmsunb

[ThutmoseV]

get used to GS-bomber team "deathmatches" (feeling more like chess matches).

 

I used to play in rated chess tournaments, so I don't mind that. Rated chess is the most intense gaming I've ever done.

[MaximilianPower]

Re-quoting Ardaneb from another thread on a similar topic:

 

The top 3/4 ships are clearly in balance for the advanced players but not the beginner/intermediate players. That is the problem with your argument and all of these arguments. There are two sets of discussion going on representing two separate sets of players. However, it is the beginner/intermediate players who lack a full understanding (by definition).

 

@OP, not to sound like a "pompous know-it-all" but I believe this does ultimately boil down to experience. Gunships aren't OP; there isn't really anything to fix, at least in higher level play. Learn how to counter them, and i'll bet your position will change.

Edited August 16, 2015 by MaximilianPower

[Reghas]

Well, It's time for me to come out of my rock and throw my 2 cents in. Getting tired of the same eight, always on comms gunships defending their wall.

 

The thing is, it's not broken. It might not be the game you want it to be, but that doesn't make it broken. There is a good state of balance between the three viable ship classes. If the devs follow through on their intent to improve strike fighters, like Gavin pointed out a couple posts above this one, that will make GSF even better, give people more choices and make other ship classes less dominant. If, by some miracle, the devs also improve some of the underpowered components, it will further enhance balance and make different builds more viable.

 

Can you please, once and for all; show us a link, preferably from a developer that says GSF is "An Arcade Style Game" Whatever that means, this isn't Space Invaders. What I understood from Bioware when GSF was belng released is this

"

 

Watch the "Conflict Rising" trailer and take your battle to space with epic 12v12 dogfights in the new Free-to-Play Digital Expansion: Galactic Starfighter, coming to Star Wars™: The Old Republic™!"

 

I don't know... Seems like Bioware thought it was about dog fighting. the trailer has a bunch of ships crashing into one another.

 

You showed up here, spouted off a one-liner incendiary opinion and a loaded question (to which the answer is 'they aren't overpowered') in a climate where recently, nearly every single thread is being crapped up by ill-informed, whiny people calling for the removal of a whole class of ships or making easily debunked claims about how overpowered they are.

 

Maybe the majority of players seemingly agree that there's something wrong with class. and that the only people defending it are pretty much the same people that main those ships.

 

There have been many substantial discussions here about how to bring the ship classes into even greater balance, but the meta as it exists now is not dominated by any one ship class. In matches of equally skilled veteran pilots, there are at least 3 very competitive scout builds, 2 gunship builds, and 2 or 3 bomber builds. There is strong consensus here (maybe 100% agreement) that we all would love to see several strike fighter builds added to that list, and there is ostensibly some dev effort to make that happen. So with that all in place, you have a deep game with lots of tactical options..

 

This is one of only things that I agree, that Balance must happen for this gamemode. Although my optimism about this is none-existent . If they can't even touch the ground aspect of the game in a meaningful way, there's no chance that GSF will receive any attention. I want T2 Scouts Burst Laser nerfed, I want T1 gunships/rail nerfed, and I basically want everything else buffed with the exception of a T2 Bomber to put it in short but that's just me.

 

You If your objection is to getting one-shotted, then whine about the only situation in which it is possible for you to get one-shotted, which is when a gs has Damage Overcharge in TDM. Should DO be toned down to prevent that? Maybe, maybe not. There are risks, especially in a gunship, to acquiring DO. It often leaves you exposed, and when you get it, your name gets put up in big red letters basically telling all enemies 'this is the guy to kill.' Maybe DO should only offer 150% damage boost instead of double, I think there's some discussion to be had there. But claiming that it's a problem with gunships is not the way to go.

 

I'm sorry Despon, But even without DO, a Gunship can oneshot a scout. If it doesn't oneshot it, the Scout is pretty much a shooting star. The ship is in the red and there's flames everywhere. A strike unless it's a stock won't get 1shot, but its the same deal with the scout. It will get hit twice by two rails and die.

 

Being obliterated by a T2 scout happens just as startlingly as being sniped by a gs. Given the amount of Evasion a T2 scout can put out, you can have no chance to hit them while they blow you away. Does this make them OP? Should we call for them to be removed from the game? Should we turn every single thread into a whine-fest about a particular ship class? Or should we learn techniques to deal with them and go about playing the game that the developers designed?

 

Despon

 

And if this evasion did not exist No scout would be able kill you? I'm being serious here. Not one scout would be able to even hurt you. You shoot people without even targeting them "You've turned off your targeting comptuers Despoon, is everything alright?" "I'm alright, I'm using the Force" NOBODY KNOWS where that deathray is going to land. Scouts do not have weapons the the side of their wings or in the back. Every ship has to face the other head on. THE ONLY WAY we can get to any gunship without getting hit is by somehow not noticed by them. and I must obviously fail in sneaking past a on comms gunship wall. You have the advantage and you always will.

 

I agreed in a previous paragraph that T2 scout should be nerfed. The only reason i started to play one back in December 2013 was because it was the closest thing to a tie fighter. (the wings are bent in the middle) Burst does ridiculous damage. The quad+pod combo while you have to aim everything yourself does ridiculous damage. it should be toned down just like gunships should be further toned down.

 

As for your question for T2 scouts destroying people just as fast there's not doubt that this can happen which again, i believe they should be toned down. However I sincerely asked people I'm trying to get into starfighter this same question. How both ships can destroy someone extremely quickly. Their response?

 

"Atleast I can see a Scout'

 

-Reghas@shadowlands

Edited August 16, 2015 by Reghas

[Linuxizer]

Star Wars was all about dog fighting, not sniping. So why are gunships so overpowered?

 

There were only a few minutes of starfighter dogfighting in each Episode so I wouldn't say Star Wars was "all" about dogfighting. The Death Stars were pretty important and the Gunships in GSF are like personal-sized Death Stars. I wish Bioware had chosen a different name than "Gunship" though, as it reminds me most of the AC-130 and attack helicopters, which are nothing like the Gunship in GSF. Perhaps "Turbolasership"?

 

Gunships are not overpowered.

[Drakkolich]

Well, It's time for me to come out of my rock and throw my 2 cents in. Getting tired of the same eight, always on comms gunships defending their wall.

 

Hi Reghas I just wanted to clear up a few things you wrote that were incorrect.

 

 

Maybe the majority of players seemingly agree that there's something wrong with class. and that the only people defending it are pretty much the same people that main those ships.

 

Many players that post often here agree with Despons even while they don't main Gunships.

I mean there's a perfect example in this thread. Tommsunb posted he agrees with him and he plays like 99% only Scout. I myself also agree with him and play every single ship in the game.

 

 

I'm sorry Despon, But even without DO, a Gunship can oneshot a scout. If it doesn't oneshot it, the Scout is pretty much a shooting star. The ship is in the red and there's flames everywhere. A strike unless it's a stock won't get 1shot, but its the same deal with the scout. It will get hit twice by two rails and die.

 

While your statement is kind of correct that a Scout can get one shot by a Gunship it does take some real effort on the part of the Scout to make that happen.

 

Here is the math I posted on One shots from another thread.

 

A Gunship can do a maximum of 2400 Damage with one shot, it is a 16% chance critical hit with Slug Railgun.

 

Minimum health values on all Ships are as follows:

 

Blackbolt and Sting: 910 Shield + 950 Hull = 1860

Bloodmark: 1040 Shield + 950 Hull = 1990

Mangler and Jurgoran: 1360 Shield + 1250 Hull = 2610

Dustmaker: 1700 Shield + 1250 Hull = 2950

Rycer and Quell: 1260 Shield + 1450 Hull = 2710

Imperium: 1440 Shield + 1450 Hull = 2890

Razorwire and Legion: 1200 Shield + 2000 Hull = 3200

Decimus: 1500 Shield + 2000 Hull = 3500

 

These are the absolute minimum amounts of health you can have on one side of each ship. All these numbers are with no upgrades and without using crew to help bolster them. In no way can you get lower health totals then these.

 

As you can see only Scouts can be one shot by a Gunship and only on a 16% chance critical hit.

 

Incase anyone out there is interested here are the maximum totals of health each ship can get.

 

Blackbolt: 1755 Shield + 1140 Hull = 2895

Sting: 1820 Shield + 1140 Hull = 2960

Bloodmark: 1690 Shield + 1140 Hull = 2830

Mangler: 2210 Shield + 1500 Hull = 3710

Dustmaker and Jurgoran: 2380 Shield + 1250 Hull = 3630

Rycer: 3060 Shield + 1450 Hull = 4510

Quell: 2700 Shield + 1740 Hull = 4440

Imperium: 3060 Shield + 1740 Hull = 4800

Razorwire and Legion: 2925 Shield + 2400 Hull = 5325

Decimus: 2925 Shield + 2000 Hull = 4925

 

With proper upgrades if one wanted no ship in the game can be one shot by a Gunship ever, even the paper thin scouts. The Bombers can even take 2 full critical shots on the same arc and still survive.

 

 

 

And if this evasion did not exist No scout would be able kill you? I'm being serious here. Not one scout would be able to even hurt you. You shoot people without even targeting them "You've turned off your targeting comptuers Despoon, is everything alright?" "I'm alright, I'm using the Force" NOBODY KNOWS where that deathray is going to land. Scouts do not have weapons the the side of their wings or in the back. Every ship has to face the other head on. THE ONLY WAY we can get to any gunship without getting hit is by somehow not noticed by them. and I must obviously fail in sneaking past a on comms gunship wall. You have the advantage and you always will.

 

So again you are right Evasion is indeed the best defense vs Railguns and is it ever good vs them. However you go on to talk about how when a Gunships isn't targeting you specifically there is no way to tell that he is going to shoot you. This is false, there is a great way to be able to tell that just look at the direction the Gunship is facing in your targeting computer, if he is facing you it's time to get out of range or line of sight or use defensive cooldowns.

 

As for getting past a team of Gunships that is using Voice communication no single player should ever be able to beat multiple coordinated players that's just common sense. 4 Coordinated Evasion Scouts vs 4 Coordinated Gunships absolutely murder the Gunships.

 

 

 

As a final thought I found it really funny that in your post saying that Gunships were too powerful you also mention you want to nerf all 3 of the top meta classes. I know you wanted to nerf key components I just found it funny.

[caederon]

@Drak, thanks for the math bomb. I appreciate you proving my point for me.

 

Well, It's time for me to come out of my rock and throw my 2 cents in. Getting tired of the same eight, always on comms gunships defending their wall.

If you think I'm on comms, I rarely ever get on voice. In 95% of the matches I play it's completely unnecessary. Very few teams I've flown against outside of Super Serious nights are good enough to require that level of coordination. If I'm grouped with good pilots, people know where to be and what to do. I solo queue a whole lot, too, so you can try to re-target your comments to some other vector.

 

Can you please, once and for all; show us a link, preferably from a developer that says GSF is "An Arcade Style Game" Whatever that means,

All you have to do is play the game. The developers made it, I didn't make it. You didn't make it, they did, and like an insect trapped in amber it has existed through the millennia (or last year) untouched by the ravages of time, preserved as pristine testament to their intent for us all to admire... or complain endlessly about.

 

The developers made the gunships, the bombers, the scouts, and the strike fighters. They set the pace of the game, made damage big and bursty, made the flight model decidedly non-newtonian and gravity defying. They made abstract concepts like Evasion, where a ship can be sitting perfectly still and yet still 'evade' shots. These are not traits of a simulation, they are arcade-y attributes. If you have some other term you think fits better, then I guess we disagree on semantics.

 

I don't know... Seems like Bioware thought it was about dog fighting. the trailer has a bunch of ships crashing into one another.

The same Bioware who 'thought it was about dogfighting' made all the non-dogfighty elements. I didn't. Verain didn't. Drakolich didn't make those things.The GSF developers made those things, presumably because they thought it would be cool and would add tactical depth to the game. Which it did.

 

You shoot people without even targeting them "You've turned off your targeting comptuers Despoon, is everything alright?" "I'm alright, I'm using the Force" NOBODY KNOWS where that deathray is going to land. Scouts do not have weapons the the side of their wings or in the back. Every ship has to face the other head on.

Ok, so... you do realize you are allowed to shoot people from behind, or underneath, or the side, or from above, right? Like, in a scout, or strike, or bomber or anything? Getting on someone's 'six' where they can't see you is a pretty good place to blow them up from. One on one jousts are not the only solution to your problems.

 

Also, in a scout with lasers and rockets, I do not have to target what I am shooting at, particularly if it is a bomber or gunship that remains pretty still. Sometimes I even try leading scouts without targeting them. It's interesting practice.

 

Finally, while I am scoping up my death ray shots, I do not get to see the scouts or whoever is coming at me from any of the myriad angles 3D space provides them that exist beyond my narrow cone of vision. The only warning of my impending doom is the rapid failing of my shields and my Spider Sense.

 

However I sincerely asked people I'm trying to get into starfighter this same question. How both ships can destroy someone extremely quickly. Their response?

 

"Atleast I can see a Scout'

Not if that scout is doing its job right.

 

The new player experience has been discussed many many so so many times here. There are lots and lots of great ways it could be improved. Wrecking a balanced meta isn't one of them. Though it pains me to have to summarize yet again the high points of the encyclopedia length volumes of How To Help New Players, I will:

 

1. Cross server queuing: The larger player pool more easily accommodates matches of players of equal skill pitting veterans against veterans and new pilots against new pilots, where they can learn the game better.

 

2. Fixing starter ship trap components: Make rapid fire lasers not suck, so new players aren't equipped with a pea shooter that will never blow anything up. Improve Quick Charge Shield. Make strikes better.

 

3. Direct new players to the growing library of very good teaching material that exists here on the forum, on a growing number of websites, in Drak's videos, and in the hearts of all good veterans. We will help new players get acclimated to the game. We do it all the damn time.

 

Wantonly swinging the nerf bat is not the answer. Bringing bad components and ship frames up to a competitive level is part of the answer. Getting people playing against opponents of an appropriate skill is the other part.

 

And specifically relating to you, Reghas, you are a good scout pilot. You play imp on Shadowlands, which unfortunately puts you in the company of a lot of very, very bad pilots currently. They exhibit a stunning lack of sensible behavior on a very frequent basis. They actively decry anyone in the chat channel who tries to help them improve. They actively sentence themselves to failure through their obstinate attitude.

 

Try flying with Xi'ao's team, with Kira-carssen (sorry if I misspelled that), with a few of the veterans that play both sides. Note the difference when flying with them versus flying with the luddite pugs who would rather complain than learn the game. Particularly note the difference when you are on a good team, versus a good team. It's a whole different ballgame.

 

Well, my Balance Warrior batteries have just about run out. Someone better call Verain to pick up the slack if I fall into the Odinsleep to regain my energy after all this truly stupid nonsense here lately.

 

Despon

Edited August 16, 2015 by caederon

[Bolo_Yeung]

Well, I wanted to post another long reply but in short:

Most of the TDM boils down to GS wall tactic (with 2 bombers often thrown in)

On 'average to good" skill level GS wall is the ultimate tactic. It is simply easy and effective to maintain.

On "good - very good - ace" level scouts can become dangerous to GS walls. However, getting 2-3 bombers into team. will render scouts practically useless (with the exception maybe of T3 scout with EMP missile - his (most often suicide) raid can disrupt the enemy defenses... but again it isn't certain.

 

Gunships alone aren't overpowered. The problem is with the possibility to compose a team with 5-6 of them .|

 

Anyway, I repeat - since we can't expect any changes to GSF - just live with it. Get a gunship, master it, show enemy snipers the businness end of your railgun. And see if those saying 'scouts are counter to GS' will switch to scouts and hunt you...

... most won't

...they will just spawn with another GS

[RickDagles]

Well, I wanted to post another long reply but in short:

Most of the TDM boils down to GS wall tactic (with 2 bombers often thrown in)

On 'average to good" skill level GS wall is the ultimate tactic. It is simply easy and effective to maintain.

On "good - very good - ace" level scouts can become dangerous to GS walls. However, getting 2-3 bombers into team. will render scouts practically useless (with the exception maybe of T3 scout with EMP missile - his (most often suicide) raid can disrupt the enemy defenses... but again it isn't certain.

 

Gunships alone aren't overpowered. The problem is with the possibility to compose a team with 5-6 of them .|

 

Anyway, I repeat - since we can't expect any changes to GSF - just live with it. Get a gunship, master it, show enemy snipers the businness end of your railgun. And see if those saying 'scouts are counter to GS' will switch to scouts and hunt you...

... most won't

...they will just spawn with another GS

 

 

Often the problem in PUG games is that the quota for Scouts is already filled by a bunch of 2 shippers or average Sting/Flashfire players. So oftentimes this requires the 'ace' in the game to fly a Gunship in TDM.

 

On most servers I would like to fly my Flashfire more often, but the ships with the best upgrades are usually Condor, Rampart, and Warcarrier simply because I have needed to fill those roles more often. Once my Flashfire has the key upgrades on a server, I will fly it against aces more often. Flying against a mastered Sting without evasion and DF missile break is not fun.

Edited August 16, 2015 by RickDagles