For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[mmmbuddah]

1. why go to WoW just for ops when I could have bioware story AND ops in the same game. could anyways. apparently they WANT me to go back to WoW if I want to raid or something?

 

2. they ARE neglecting everything else. they are not adding anything new groupwise until sometime, undetermined when in 2016. aside from some end game content they are apparently working on but keeping mum about - there is nothing new on a group front. SoR was released officially on december 9 2014. it was released with two new flashpoints and two new ops. since then were got one loot pinata of a world boss and one instanced boss in terms of group content. that's it. we know that NIM will no longer be added in a future and given that they are scaling up all the existing ops to 65.. that sounds like actualy removing a difficulty mode from existing content to me. best case scenario (and I'm being extremely optimistic here) we'll get something new in january of 2016. which is over a year of just two "fresh" ops. that is after they promised before, back in a days of DF/DP being latest ops that we won't be going through that much of a long wait for new group content again.

 

pvp is in even worse condition. we haven't gotten any new maps since march of 2014. we got a mild update recently attempting to fix people throwing ranked matches by queuing without pvp gear and cost of gear recalculation. but that's it.

 

galactic starfighter was released, wasn't nearly as much of a success as they had hoped for due to steep barrier to entry and they pretty much abandoned it instead of trying to fix it. with exception of some cartel market paint jobs in packs.

 

and here's the thing about the focus on story change. people are so excited about it, and... we are not even getting SoR style class exclusive quest. its all Makeb style flavor. with hopefully more choices than what we got on Makeb. I guess people are forgetting but.. SoR was also supposed to be a increased focus on a story. and in a way - it was, DA2 and ME3 style side quests aside. and at the same time... people were still unhappy about it in terms of its story quality and content. what exactly makes you think that they are going to do sooooo much better in Fallen empire?

 

we know three things so far. its going to be in chapter format. we are doing a time skip and losing our existing companions (and no idea which of them we'll even be able to get back) and there will be no class exclusive content. wait. 4 things. you cannot group for expac story at all, because while not being class exclusive, it will still utilize those class story mechanics of everyone but whoever goes into the instance first - being the only one able to complete the quest, with everyone else in spectator mode.

 

call me jaded, call me bitter, call me whatever. I don't care. I speak up becasue if I don't? bioware can just chalk it up to their oh so wonderful metrics and only pay attention to existence of alts, while ignoring everything else.

 

P.S. ironically. people stopped running leveling flashpoints becasue KDY was the only thing they could get to pop reliable. and now people are not even running that - not becasue they don't like any of them. but becasue 12x class xp makes it redundant. but of course it must be becasue they don't like group content.

 

My Hero.

[Jedi_riches]

After skimming several pages and seeing people saying that they feel as if BW are miss-reading their metrics data, I must ask have they published their data in full anywhere? as where else can all these statements come from?

 

Personally I have 7/8 of the main storys done and plan on trying to do 1 male of all the a/c's and 1 a/c of each female story.

 

After that were there no more "story" I would most certainly be off and cancelling my subscription as there is nothing else in the game I would want to do, I dislike PvP and have only ever done 1 ops in my entire life and was so lost the entire time I doubt I will ever try another one.

[TUXs]

People who are saying these metrics are made up or wrong are stupid. Yes, you are stupid for thinking that, and you should feel bad.

The metrics aren't wrong at all...the interpretation of those metrics is what's flawed.

 

They've flat out made statements in the past about their metrics that were astonishingly wrong. They interpret the data very poorly. The only "stupid" people here, are the ones assuming they're infallible.

[Meltedskull]

Bioware! Add more sandbox elements! Then you don't have to worry about Endgame or any of that stuff. We'll keep ourselves occupied with a full sandpark SWTOR.

[Joesixxpack]

Bioware! Add more sandbox elements! Then you don't have to worry about Endgame or any of that stuff. We'll keep ourselves occupied with a full sandpark SWTOR.

 

I wish.

 

The **** posters that don't like group content in their MMO should love your idea too. inb4 whiny replies.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Joesixxpack

[TUXs]

And the difference between "running the same story for the 22nd time" and raiding the same top end raids or PvP'g over and over and over over and over to gear grind is what exactly?

There's a huge difference between those 2 things. People do progression raiding to challenge themselves and their friends. Progression raiding is about overcoming obstacles as a team and working better as a team to succeed at a goal. Running the same easy story quest over and over, isn't at all like that.

 

I don't care if that's what you enjoy doing, but it's not even close to being the same as group content.

[Shwarzchild]

After skimming several pages and seeing people saying that they feel as if BW are miss-reading their metrics data, I must ask have they published their data in full anywhere? as where else can all these statements come from?

 

Personally I have 7/8 of the main storys done and plan on trying to do 1 male of all the a/c's and 1 a/c of each female story.

 

After that were there no more "story" I would most certainly be off and cancelling my subscription as there is nothing else in the game I would want to do, I dislike PvP and have only ever done 1 ops in my entire life and was so lost the entire time I doubt I will ever try another one.

 

The problem that has cropped up here, that has been said by another poster above, is that everyone's experience in game has lead them to believe they are the majority. So yes there are a lot of people who are here for story. There are others who are here for end game raiding. Some are here for pvp. Other probably something else. Everyone thinks that their position is more fact than the other based on their experiences in game...and since each one of us hangs out in game with like minded people we tend to forget about the existence of any other perspective.

 

We've already been able to uncover quite a few variables that would have an impact on the data leading to misrepresentation: the 8 class stories, 2 advanced classes per type of character, 12xp, operations lock outs leading to requiring more alts for operation runs, etc...all which put more players into the story than into the end game just by the nature of the beast. So the question I have, which of course will never be answered, is are those variables being taken into account when they say that the majority of players are more into story, and most importantly want story above all else.

 

I think that wondering if they are truly interpreting the data at a level that could provide them real answers is valid. None of us are saying that inclusion of more story is a bad thing. Everyone since launch has wanted more story. Bioware creating story at a monthly pace is awesome, and I look forward to it. I also know from my experience in being one of the last players on Death Wind Corridor that a lack of end game whether it be polish or quantity of fresh content does have a dramatic effect on the health of the game no matter how few players the metrics show do end game content. What experience has taught me is that there is a balance to it all, and that balance is delicate. To hear that Bioware is going all in on story again...after they tried originally at launch with not the best results...makes me wonder if that balance is being upheld.

 

Could it be that the rescaling of all old operations actually provides that balance? I hope so? But, none of us will know that until it all debuts. And, can Bioware make the old content interesting enough for a lot of end game players to stay here. It's dicey. None of us who already completed progression on the 2.0 raids want to go back and redo it (or at least as much as the player wanted to progress through the 2.0 raids). That just doesn't seem fun. None of us want our new levels of progression wiped out from the 3.0 stuff without having a new tier to experience. We don't want to travel backwards just to have to fight to get back to the level we are at currently. It's just not what would be deemed enjoyable. Disclaimer the flashpoint changes are great, and I probably go back through them to go achievement completion hunting.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[Meltedskull]

I wish.

 

The **** posters that don't like group content in their MMO should love your idea too. inb4 whiny replies.

 

Well it should benefit both camps. MMO players will have 'neverending' content since it involves interaction with other players. KOTOR fans will have more immersion so they can also jump in the same content. Then the need to constantly add x new ops or story will diminish since people will be so occupied with doing the numerous sandbox elements that they don't really need a new op every 3 months. It's cheaper and more efficient since making new raids/ops is an expensive thing compared to story and sandbox elements.

 

The more we depart from the WoW model the better SWTOR will end up being in the long run.

[Elracor]

Metrics only tell part of the story.

Don't get me wrong, Story in this game is the most essential part and probably always will be. GSF, PvP and Ops players are minorities. However, the reason these minorities are as small as they are is totally on Bioware and their incompetence.

 

Many play Story because that's the only part of the game they're interested in. However, how many play Story only because the introduction to Ops in-game is non-existent? Because joining an Ops takes way too much effort to the point where it can take more time finding a group and learning tactics than actually playing that Operation? The same goes for PvP where you'll be thrown straight into a Warzone without any introduction to rules or gameplay without a single second of tutorials or the like to try it out.

 

Even for gamemodes where they TRIED to make a tutorial (GSF) they fall flat. The tutorial for GSF is absolutely terrible and does almost nothing to introduce players into the mayhem they can end up against since Veteran players can go against first time players.

 

Even for those who break through that beginners' barrier, it's not like there's a bucket of gold at the end. Especially PvP and GSF lack improvements and new additions to the gamemodes to keep them alive and active.

 

They gave us all the PR bull**** about how Disciplines will make it easier for them to balance the game, yet we're seeing massive balance changes to healing 3 months before a new expansion where they can start all over with balancing as the classes will get new abilitiies.

Edited August 17, 2015 by MFollin

[Quraswren]

SNIP....

 

Again, you are only against the metrics because they do not justify your opinion.

 

 

Wrong. You should never base anything off just metrics because it's too easily misread, misinterpreted or twisted to get what you want. Very much like statistics.

 

Metrics are just a small piece of the puzzle. No matter how much BW wants to lesson the MMo elements and end game group play and reuse old content to cover their ***, it will not be an amazing experience once story is burned through not matter what their metrics say.

 

New end game group content is needed just as much as new story elements are in this game and pretty much any MMO.

[Joesixxpack]

Well it should benefit both camps. MMO players will have 'neverending' content since it involves interaction with other players. KOTOR fans will have more immersion so they can also jump in the same content. Then the need to constantly add x new ops or story will diminish since people will be so occupied with doing the numerous sandbox elements that they don't really need a new op every 3 months. It's cheaper and more efficient since making new raids/ops is an expensive thing compared to story and sandbox elements.

 

The more we depart from the WoW model the better SWTOR will end up being in the long run.

 

Can't argue, even if it is a pipe dream for implementation here.

 

Personally I like MMO group content *and* good SP story, and get a good chuckle out of the primitive monkey noises coming from the narcissistic story-only anti-social types.

[TUXs]

Personally I like MMO group content *and* good SP story, and get a good chuckle out of the primitive monkey noises coming from the narcissistic story-only anti-social types.

^^THIS^^

 

I could not agree more. SWTOR had both...they seem to have given up on new group content though.

[tmwfte]

^^THIS^^

 

I could not agree more. SWTOR had both...they seem to have given up on new group content though.

 

So, who's going to break it to George Smith and his team that they don't have jobs any more?

[Andryah]

I just find it sad that people are going to such lengths to silence any criticisms.

 

I find it sad that people are trying desperately to internet torpedo the expac before it even goes live.

 

I understand criticism once you have your hands on content... but this constant desire to kill assassinate the expac before you even have a chance to play it seems rather silly IMO.

 

The hyperbole and doom and gloom ahead of this expac is more absurd then ever.

[TUXs]

So, who's going to break it to George Smith and his team that they don't have jobs any more?

Uh...who?

[Reno_Tarshil]

Uh...who?

 

You know, that one guy from billing..

[tmwfte]

Uh...who?

 

George Smith is the Senior Designer responsible for Operations and Flashpoints. If there's no new group content, someone should let him and his team know that they're no longer needed and just draining funds that should be used elsewhere. This is EA, right? If you're not making money, there's the door.

[Joesixxpack]

I find it sad that people are trying desperately to internet torpedo the expac before it even goes live.

 

I understand criticism once you have your hands on content... but this constant desire to kill assassinate the expac before you even have a chance to play it seems rather silly IMO.

 

The hyperbole and doom and gloom ahead of this expac is more absurd then ever.

 

Kill assassinating is wayyyy worse than plain old assassinating.

 

Your critiques won't hold much water until you L2consistency a little better. You can't be a savvy biz mgt. pro lecturing people in one thread and a naive noob in another. The scope of criticism is a lot broader than you're inferring but hey if cherry-picking suits your argument better sure.

[TUXs]

George Smith is the Senior Designer responsible for Operations and Flashpoints. If there's no new group content, someone should let him and his team know that they're no longer needed and just draining funds that should be used elsewhere. This is EA, right? If you're not making money, there's the door.

I have never heard of the guy...ever.

 

I wonder if his "team" is as busy as the PvP team has been?

[Quraswren]

I find it sad that people are trying desperately to internet torpedo the expac before it even goes live.

 

I understand criticism once you have your hands on content... but this constant desire to kill assassinate the expac before you even have a chance to play it seems rather silly IMO.

 

The hyperbole and doom and gloom ahead of this expac is more absurd then ever.

 

 

I might could agree with you if it wasn't for too much reliance on story and not enough new end game group content.

 

It's historically known in games that redoing and rehashing old content isn't well received no matter what difficulty level it has added to it.

We know story content is quickly consumed at a rate that blows BWs mind. Story content does not sustain SWTOR.

 

That alone tells me story for FE could be amazing but once max level is reach, the old group content wont be this amazing rinse/repeat it once was because it will have been done so many times in the past year to 4 years ago. That doesn't make for excitement for old players to run with new players who have not seen it. Nor does it mean they will be any less tolerant of new gamers on old areas.

 

No one needs to play the new expansion to see that in this area, it's not looking all that stellar for end game group content. Getting new end game content months later, well past the lifespan of story, isn't really a carrot on a stick worth eating.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Quraswren

[tmwfte]

I have never heard of the guy...ever.

 

I wonder if his "team" is as busy as the PvP team has been?

 

You never heard of the guy who wrote one of the most incendiary posts to the community blog that set the hardcore raider community off? You've been raging about no new operations and you never even bothered to realise who said it?

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations-and-flashpoints-fallen-empire

[Joesixxpack]

I wonder if his "team" is as busy as the PvP team has been?

 

It burrrnnnnnsssss

[TUXs]

You never heard of the guy who wrote one of the most incendiary posts to the community blog that set the hardcore raider community off? You've been raging about no new operations and you never even bothered to realise who said it?

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations-and-flashpoints-fallen-empire

Bioware said it. That's what I know. Who the particular person was who had to actually state it, wasn't of any importance tbh, he's representing Bioware's decision, not his own.

[tmwfte]

Bioware said it. That's what I know. Who the particular person was who had to actually state it, wasn't of any importance tbh, he's representing Bioware's decision, not his own.

 

Which isn't the point. Nice attempt to dodge, though. If there's no new group content, by all means, TUXs, go tell him and his team that they're just a drain on the company's resources.

[TUXs]

Which isn't the point. Nice attempt to dodge, though. If there's no new group content, by all means, TUXs, go tell him and his team that they're just a drain on the company's resources.

Uh huh...that's realistic.