For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[zhandao]

just lol "metrics show most people play story" well what else is there to do in the game, what other ways are there to level a character? I bet 20 spacebucks, that if there would be a way to level characters outside the story, then metrics would show that most people wouldn't even poke storymode with a stick.

I disagree unless they use a different, more unique combat system than something similar (emphasis similiar, not exact) to WoW/EQ2/Rift/etc.

 

I really dislike MMO combat.

 

Now, if they went just as far as something like WAR, which is not really different in its fundamental mechanics, I'd be satisfied. That's because Warhammer Online introduced high-level features such as having to balance offensive vs defensive spells (as an Archmage), aura/stance dancing as a Chosen, turret classes (Engineer/Magus), melee/priests who drew "mana" from attacking with melee in order to cast spells (DIsciple of Kain/Warrior-Priest).

 

Then you also go Public Quests and RvR. (Which failed in implementation, lol, but at least would be more attractive in SWTOR than it is currently).

 

I suppose another option would be more challenging dungeons/Flashpoints. Now, it is true that boss fights are difficult. But I remember in WoW (vanilla), there was also challenge in terms of having to deal with patrols, that every trash encounter required solid skills in tanking + DPS + healing + aggro management in general... and I forget what else lol.

 

SWTOR - again I'm not saying it's better or worse or equal to WoW, mechanically is just not interesting enough.

 

Another example would be AoC. Bear Shamans especially, lol.

[Zzyzzx_Xien]

Focusing on solo play is clearly not what they did with the newest update, can't solo much of the game at all anymore since even when I have reasonable leveled toon it gets shifted down to a bs level forcing me to have to group just to complete a mission I used to be able to do solo. I WAS excited about an expansion centered on story and solo play, but the nerfed it. This type of bs is why I stopped playing any other MMOs, yea I want to be able to group, but when nobody I know is currently playing I want to be able to complete story mission while solo, not forced to group with strangers that I don't know their play style.

[hadoken]

Focusing on solo play is clearly not what they did with the newest update, can't solo much of the game at all anymore since even when I have reasonable leveled toon it gets shifted down to a bs level forcing me to have to group just to complete a mission I used to be able to do solo. I WAS excited about an expansion centered on story and solo play, but the nerfed it. This type of bs is why I stopped playing any other MMOs, yea I want to be able to group, but when nobody I know is currently playing I want to be able to complete story mission while solo, not forced to group with strangers that I don't know their play style.

 

What game are you playing? This is so the opposite of like everyone's experiences on this forum. Everyone is complaining about how easy it is now (or if not complaining, still acknowledging it).

Edited November 9, 2015 by hadoken

[Velgar]

Focusing on solo play is clearly not what they did with the newest update, can't solo much of the game at all anymore since even when I have reasonable leveled toon it gets shifted down to a bs level forcing me to have to group just to complete a mission I used to be able to do solo. I WAS excited about an expansion centered on story and solo play, but the nerfed it. This type of bs is why I stopped playing any other MMOs, yea I want to be able to group, but when nobody I know is currently playing I want to be able to complete story mission while solo, not forced to group with strangers that I don't know their play style.

 

I don't know what game you are playing but I am soloing all the content in SWTOR I have always soloed, in fact some of it is a bit easier to solo now. Aurora Cannon is a case in point with the removal of the mechanic that required a group to finish the instance. Soloed it no problem.

[Ewacked]

nah, pvpers are drooling tardsfor the most part with horrible social skills and a fondness for being know it all aholes

 

Wow,

 

Ever heard the expression, those who live in glass houses....?

[Zzyzzx_Xien]

Oh sorry, when I solo I actually play the game not have my companion play it for me...

[Djiini]

Oh sorry, when I solo I actually play the game not have my companion play it for me...

 

Sorry your companion being as strong as you withers your e-peen.

[GnosticJedi]

Here is osmething else he said:

 

There was a tone of regret in his voice as Ohlen continued his recounting of the month after launch: "We had people going through the game so fast that within one month, four to five weeks, we suddenly had close to half a million people at the endgame. It was something we didn't expect at all. We had all those people at the endgame and suddenly certain things like having only one Operation, and having no group finder [tool] become much bigger challenges than what we thought they were going to be."

 

The rest of Ohlen's presentation documented the entire year following SWTOR's launch, with blunt appraisals of the studio's falling morale during the problems of 2012.

 

So they've built a single-player game and marketed it as an MMO, then "lost" these 500k subscribers. Genius fellas at work there.

 

I think SWTOR has at most 30k players - that's players, not subscribers, based on the populations of all of the remaining servers.

 

RIP

[Djiini]

I think SWTOR has at most 30k players - that's players, not subscribers, based on the populations of all of the remaining servers.

 

RIP

 

I think wrong things sometimes too.

[GnosticJedi]

I think wrong things sometimes too.

 

How many players do you think a "Full" or a "Very Heavy" server has?

 

Don't kid yourself. Update 4.0 is a full-blown conversion to a Single Player experience before the shutdown it would seem.

Edited November 9, 2015 by GnosticJedi

[Djiini]

How many players do you think a "Full" or a "Very Heavy" server has?

 

Don't kid yourself. Update 4.0 is a full-blown conversion to a Single Player experience before the shutdown it would seem.

 

You realize they had to increase the cap because following 4.0 Launch a bunch of the servers HIT their caps, right?

 

The SWTOR Subreddit has more followers than the number of people you think play the game total right now.

[Zzyzzx_Xien]

Yes plenty about the game is way to easy, but when I want to solo content designed for large groups the level sync makes it impossible, WBs are the only thing I see fit to require a group and hell they could have simply implemented a system similar to BH week where the level of the person summoning the mob determines the level of said mob.

 

And those a** hats that say having difficulty from level sync simply means I'm bad, so what even if it was due to being bad at the game, which it does not, granted there are some classes I am not that good with. I play the game, not send my companion in to attack for me, which is only truly possible with way over leveled characters going back to low level worlds.

 

I do like the option of level sync as there have been instances of me forgetting about a mission that I intended to do before I leveled to the point of receiving essentially nothing for completing it.

[GnosticJedi]

You realize they had to increase the cap because following 4.0 Launch a bunch of the servers HIT their caps, right?

 

The SWTOR Subreddit has more followers than the number of people you think play the game total right now.

 

Followers are dormant accounts most likely - the very same people who were excited for the launch of the game and then went *POOF*.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Read it yourself.

 

Bioware/EA figured that these MMO players can not be regained again, so they'll be neglecting the MMO part of this game.

 

Enjoy your Single-Player story, I guess.

[Infernixx]

Followers are dormant accounts most likely - the very same people who were excited for the launch of the game and then went *POOF*.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Read it yourself.

 

Bioware/EA figured that these MMO players can not be regained again, so they'll be neglecting the MMO part of this game.

 

Enjoy your Single-Player story, I guess.

 

I 'am', thanks for asking.

[Djiini]

Followers are dormant accounts most likely - the very same people who were excited for the launch of the game and then went *POOF*.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Read it yourself.

 

Bioware/EA figured that these MMO players can not be regained again, so they'll be neglecting the MMO part of this game.

 

Enjoy your Single-Player story, I guess.

 

It's sad you have no proof of the actual playerbase right now and have to resort to saying 'history will definitely repeat itself'. You guys realize the 'LATENCY PROBLEMS' on Odessen are because of the ridiculous density of players there, much more so than even the Fleets had? Don't mistake 'a handful of people complain on the forums' for 'everybody hates it'. I can name only a few people who are well and truly displeased and I constantly hear from--you, Pagy, Eillack and a few others.

 

I am enjoying it though, I just would like to know why you're still here since you clearly don't.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Djiini

[GnosticJedi]

It's sad you have no proof of the actual playerbase right now and have to resort to saying 'history will definitely repeat itself'.

 

Rather trivial to count the number of instances per each planet, encounter, Fleet. I suspect a Standard server doesn't have more than 2k people - I play on one. Do you think a Full or a Very Heavy one has 20k?

 

You guys realize the 'LATENCY PROBLEMS' on Odessen are because of the ridiculous density of players there, much more so than even the Flees had?

 

Engine limitations, sadly. Planet Illum at launch was unplayable with 50 people on screen. Engine limitations.

 

I am enjoying it though, I just would like to know why you're still here since you clearly don't.[/Quote]

 

I still have hope the MMO part of this game will return at some point.

Edited November 9, 2015 by GnosticJedi

[Djiini]

Rather trivial to count the number of instances per each planet, encounter, Fleet. I suspect a Standard server doesn't have more than 2k people - I play on one. Do you think a Full or a Very Heavy one has 20k?

 

Unless you can show me facts about actual population caps, anything you say is just speculation. Or, as I like to call it, talking out your ***.

[Brewberry]

Quote:

“There’s two ways that they give input. There’s the communication obviously either from the forums or from the community events. But then there’s also the communication that we get from metrics that we gather on play style and everything else. Both of them really pointed to one thing, which is that story is the central theme and the best part of Star Wars: The Old Republic. It’s what all our fans wanted. If we could give them an endless epic Star Wars story, they would be happy campers for the rest of their lives.”

Unquote.

 

So let me see if I understand this correctly. A game that heavily relied on story at launch and ever since, mostly has fans that want story? Wow, what an impressive conclusion. Must have taken a large team of professionals to figure that one out.

 

But Ohlsson knows the truth behind it doesnt he.."if we could give them an endless epic Star Wars story, they would be happy campers for the rest of their lives." Likely a true statement, however he knows they cant. Nobody knows better than Bioware players will plow through any amount of story much faster than they can produce it. In the games early days Bioware acknowledged they did not think players would play through the amount of story they had delivered as fast as they did.

 

SWTOR was the most anticipated MMO ever released and became the fastest growing MMO in the industry. That should tell you everything you need to know about Star Wars power in the entertainment industry. And yet this game never rose to be much more than a footnote next to World of Warcraft. So, explain to me again how a highly story centric game is all everyone ever wanted from a Star Wars MMO please? Why is it that World of Warcraft passed 12 million players in its lifetime and SWTOR never passed what, 2 mill? Could it possibly be that even as good as storytelling is in SWTOR it simply is NOT ENOUGH to keep players invested in a game over time? The conclusion seems pretty clear to me, World of Warcraft is simply a better game in other aspects of being a MMO than SWTOR. Even as much as I like the storytelling in this game, this game has no longevity past enjoyng story for the majority of those that have tried it.

 

Quote from Wikipedia - SWTOR

"After launch, the game's subscribers rose to 1.7 million by February 2012.[37] By May 2012, those numbers fell to 1.3 million.[38] By July 2012, the subscriber base fell below 1 million, prompting EA to convert the game to free-to-play. EA stated that 500,000 subscribers were needed to make the game profitable saying that they were "well above" that number.[39] On November 15, 2012, the free-to-play option went live on all servers."

 

Less than 6 months. That is how quickly most players blew through all story and stopped playing, decided they didnt like the game, got bored or stopped their subscriiption for whatever other reason. And the apparently inevitable conclusion must be story is the only and most important thing in a MMO? Of course the current fanbase is mostly interested in the story. They have driven everyone else away. But hey, if you want to believe this is not true dont let me stop you.

 

For my part I enjoyed playing through class stories for a 2nd time this summer. I enjoyed the KOTFE story. I doubt I will be able to keep interest up and hold on to my subscription over time. It is much more likely I will stop paying and rather sign up for more story later on. Like paying for one month and enjoying the rest of the chapters in season 1.

 

At any rate if you want to look at why this game is not more popular, why there are not more people paying money for subs or cartel market, my usage statistics are defintely not what you need to look at. That is the equivalent of preaching to the choir.

 

Brewberry

[Djiini]

At any rate if you want to look at why this game is not more popular, why there are not more people paying money for subs or cartel market, my usage statistics are defintely not what you need to look at. That is the equivalent of preaching to the choir.

 

Brewberry

 

More popular than what?

Edited November 9, 2015 by Djiini

[g_land]

I posted that quote regarding launch failure I don't how many times and it was ignored. I also pointed out that metrics are only good if used in the right context. Example... just raw numbers, if 85% of your content is solo grind story related content and the instanced stuff is on lock out timers, like it is here... then DUH you can say what he said with a straight face.... yet know that really that only happened as people tried to fill the boredom until their lock out timers expired.

 

Actually the biggest example of this that they have done would be the anniversary info graphic from last year where it said the most used crystal since launch was the yellow black crystal. Now that was probably in fact true because of the number of collectors editions they sold and the fact that the crystals provided through that were easily accessible at each level break and that those original players probably made a lot of characters that could take advantage of that availability in those first few months. It would have been much more informative to say what crystal was more popular since say the Cartel market released but instead they included a large quantity of data which skewed the result to yellow black crystals which are a completely exclusive item to collectors edition owners...

[Brewberry]

More popular than what?

 

More popular than SWTOR currently is. I appologize if that was unclear.

 

That statement was not comparing it to anything else but its own success and therefore its profitability, increased lifespan, added story, etc.

 

Brewbery

[RobNightfall]

Quote:

 

 

For my part I enjoyed playing through class stories for a 2nd time this summer. I enjoyed the KOTFE story. I doubt I will be able to keep interest up and hold on to my subscription over time. It is much more likely I will stop paying and rather sign up for more story later on. Like paying for one month and enjoying the rest of the chapters in season 1.

 

 

 

Brewberry

 

This. I've paid for (and already cancelled my sub) 9 chapters. Now I'm waiting for them to address the balance issues, bugs, and complaints that were more or less inevitable with the new content. I plan on checking back in on the game in the spring or summer. And since I subbed at the right time I also get access to Shadows of Revan. After I chew through most of that, I'll decide whether or not I like the game enough to keep paying for the new content. Assuming I don't find something else that offers both story and MMO content that I like better.

[Ghisallo]

Actually the biggest example of this that they have done would be the anniversary info graphic from last year where it said the most used crystal since launch was the yellow black crystal. Now that was probably in fact true because of the number of collectors editions they sold and the fact that the crystals provided through that were easily accessible at each level break and that those original players probably made a lot of characters that could take advantage of that availability in those first few months. It would have been much more informative to say what crystal was more popular since say the Cartel market released but instead they included a large quantity of data which skewed the result to yellow black crystals which are a completely exclusive item to collectors edition owners...

 

 

Another thing I think people keep missing regarding their use of metrics, in the OP's example, is the lack of detail and thus lack of context

 

Example when they spoke about the launch failure and how their lack of elder game content contributed it, they went into some rather good detail regarding the average number of hours played and even the maximum number of hours played. However in the OP's post and other more recent times when they speak about metrics, really even the most "in-depth" interviews give very little detail regarding the results that they are speaking of. When you see a lot of words trying to use data to justify an action but a lack of detail in terms of the data it is time to question the data, except in video games actually.

 

I'll use a rl example where we use data all the time, politics. When the GOP took the Senate some people said "ah ha!!! see people are tired of the Democrats." However others, including GOP strategists, said "don't count your chicken's before their hatched" because they looked at what States those seats were won in. If you totaled up the number of electoral college votes in the red and blue states the Dems would still have a more electoral college votes and thus the White House, even though they had fewer Senate seats (gotta love our system lol).

 

The problem is this quote keeps being bandied about because many players want to feel like they are the focus. It is hard to feel like you are a focus if you are in a minority. So rather than look at the game holistically (as in my example above) they just look at the blanket statement made, without looking at the possible reasons for it, such as lock out timers, the fact that doing solo weeklies while waiting on the timers still provided currency for reasonable upgrades, harvesting for the necessary crafted augments etc. even if you were an elder game fan.

 

Now I understand that part of this is also because a lot SWTOR players never played an MMO before. They do not understand that MMO's will design things so the players who do not prefer soloing will still do so in order to first, stretch out the life cycle of the content and to also not have that open world feel like a ghost town. As such they have even less incentive to look behind the spin.

[Ghisallo]

Followers are dormant accounts most likely - the very same people who were excited for the launch of the game and then went *POOF*.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

Read it yourself.

 

Bioware/EA figured that these MMO players can not be regained again, so they'll be neglecting the MMO part of this game.

 

Enjoy your Single-Player story, I guess.

 

Well if that was the case the same GDC 2013 interviews would not have him saying how in large part adding all the MMO content stopped the loss of players and helped to turn the game around financially. I honestly think that this initial part of the expac is only about one thing.... they are under orders from EA to have A LOT of new players join around the movie. This is not a guess but a statement from the CFO at the Q3 2015 earnings call. They are also clearly on a restricted budget. This expac has NOTHING to do with existing players of ANY stripe, it is only about new ones to get a good quarterly report.

 

You realize they had to increase the cap because following 4.0 Launch a bunch of the servers HIT their caps, right?

 

The SWTOR Subreddit has more followers than the number of people you think play the game total right now.

 

 

Well this is pretty much bad data because I know lots of people who are still followers of such when they haven't played said games in years.

 

Next and perhaps most important , getting back to your lag issue, this game is NOTORIOUS for lag period, the engine has a multitude of issues. I think I have even seen you complain about this yourself in the past. Now you turn around and use lag for a completely different reasons, forgetting your prior use?

 

Second... you are talking about what amounts to a lobby. EVERYONE who gets to end game is forced into that small area. You don't get lag elsewhere because most of the solo stuff is heavily instanced.

 

So we have a game notorious for lag when too many people are on the same map and the game design itself forces everyone on that server from about lvl 64 on, to be on the same map. What does logic dictate the issue is... oh I know... the engine and a poor design when we account for the engine limitations.

[papragu]

Unless you can show me facts about actual population caps, anything you say is just speculation. Or, as I like to call it, talking out your ***.

 

You want real facts? Log on to the game and visit some planets, count instances and players/instance. Enjoy your facts.