Why combining main-stats is neither bad nor "dumbing down' anything.

[Tsillah]

Getting one piece of armor set that is interchangeable between all characters and all companions is dumping down the game.

 

You seem to have some understanding issues when it comes to English. The expression is dumbing down the game, which generally means to make it less difficult to understand. Or as some people would say, so easy that even the dumb people can understand it.

 

What you suggest however, is not dumbing down the game. It would make it great for lazy people who do not want to collect gear sets but that's not dumbing down.

 

But....

 

Who says that this new gear will be interchangeable? I know there were already rumours going around that moving gear around your legacy would not be possible anymore before KotFE was even announced. Now, I am not saying those rumours are true because I don't know...but BW haven't explained very much yet about what will happen. So I wouldn't just assume that it will be as you suggest. It might be....but it also might not be.

[KorbanShepard]

You seem to have some understanding issues when it comes to English. The expression is dumbing down the game, which generally means to make it less difficult to understand. Or as some people would say, so easy that even the dumb people can understand it.

 

What you suggest however, is not dumbing down the game. It would make it great for lazy people who do not want to collect gear sets but that's not dumbing down.

 

But....

 

Who says that this new gear will be interchangeable? I know there were already rumours going around that moving gear around your legacy would not be possible anymore before KotFE was even announced. Now, I am not saying those rumours are true because I don't know...but BW haven't explained very much yet about what will happen. So I wouldn't just assume that it will be as you suggest. It might be....but it also might not be.

 

Dude, it was dumb to begin with. If you thought that was some kind of mental challenge in the first place, maybe you should rethink what you define as intelligent.

 

You know, if this was the removal of how certain powers activate given a specific rotation to do more dmg, mitigate dmg, etc in a way that makes it even more faceroll, then that'd be dumbing it down. But let's face it, there's not enough aspects of this game outside of PvP that really challenge us all that much. You're puzzle-solving skills are not greatly enhanced by playing this game by any stretch. If y ou think that they are, or if you think that you risk losing brain cells due to playing the upcoming xpac, then it's worrisome as to how much you have currently.

[KorbanShepard]

Accusations of my intent regarding my comments make you look like an ******e, and I will call you out on that since you decided to "dress me down" on my opinion, while arguing so called convictions that you claim I have, even though I don't have them. You would do well to gather more facts than running your mouth. SMH...

 

Does combining all main stats into Mastery dumb it down? The obvious logical answer is yes.

Does combining all main stats into Mastery really matter? Absolutely not.

Is crit broken? Probably.

Is rolling crit into surge and making it one stat in and of itself dumbing it down? Definitely.

 

I work in IT. Back in the 90's and barely into the early 2000's, there was some prestige to being knowledgeable about how everything worked, and it took effort to learn it and understand it. Today people only have to click buttons, not really understand how it works. They just have to understand how to click the buttons correctly. Are we better for it? No. Just dumbed downed catering to those whom choose not to try harder.

 

Extrapolate that to end game PvE or PvP. Are we better for it? Probably not. There is a reason the guys at end game are the best.

 

You seriously just compared simplification of four stats that were exactly the same anyways to a single more efficient stat to the difference between understanding how things work in an os vs clicking the button ona GUI?

 

This would be more akin to simplifying code to make it easier to amend in the future than it would simplifying a command process with a click.

[Tsillah]

Dude, it was dumb to begin with. If you thought that was some kind of mental challenge in the first place, maybe you should rethink what you define as intelligent.

 

Thank you for accusing me of something I actually didn't say.

 

I was speaking of definitions of the wording used. I was clearly not making a judgement about the game itself. Although I must add that after seeing mercs with shield stats and snipers with aim, apparently there is a level of intelligence in SWTOR that a fair number of people are not achieving.

 

You know, if this was the removal of how certain powers activate given a specific rotation to do more dmg, mitigate dmg, etc in a way that makes it even more faceroll, then that'd be dumbing it down. But let's face it, there's not enough aspects of this game outside of PvP that really challenge us all that much. You're puzzle-solving skills are not greatly enhanced by playing this game by any stretch. If y ou think that they are, or if you think that you risk losing brain cells due to playing the upcoming xpac, then it's worrisome as to how much you have currently.

 

So please tell us...why are you playing this game and paying for it?

[KorbanShepard]

OP you are right on point. Thing people wont do is agree with you because they are afraid of chance. Gamers and MMO gamers in particular are horribly afraid of change. Main stat being labelled one name or another is just that main stat and means nothing. It was purely a carry over from ever other game out there that has ultimately copied itself from DnD. In DnD it has a place in an MMO it has little to no real meaning but a name. I applaud BW with going in another direction and wow just changing a name.

 

Now for the many many changes that are being talked about from data mined information that will only know when we actually get a complete breakdown from BW. And BW really needs to just come absolutely open about the changes to how class and gear are changing. They do not have to give us story arc and can remain tight lipped. They also don't have to fully talk about and post up information about the new stat system but in reality if they want to keep their player base happy and content they wont hide it and just tell us all. Its already a done deal as far as being released that much we all can assume but just tell us. It will stop people from posting hearsay and just start to discuss the real meat and potato of it.

 

Yeah. It's really disappointing how many people seem to think that somehow there's something intelligent about the mainstats in the first place. I think that's why I made the post. I suppose that doesn't elevate my intelligence that much if I'm willing to argue with people who can't see the forest from the trees, but oh well.

 

You're right though. The mainstat is a small efficient change. The rest of the changes are much more pressing. Like what's happening with crafting? What are they altogether doing with tertiary stats? I know that Crit and Surge are being combined. I'd be curious if they're combing more and making us choose even more stark options as to how our gear will define our output. The combat system is supposed to be more mobile apparently. Are they taking a more Wildstar approach with the telegraphing (I did enjoy that aspect of Wildstar to be fair)? These are interesting questions and changes that can lead to a much less challenging game. Like if they were to change how different powers activated passives that led to the buffing of other powers or dmg mitigation that would be something that could have potential for changing how the game is played and perceived.

 

I do wish Bioware would be more forthcoming about those things.

That being said, I've never played this game because the combat system was something of an intellectual marvel. There are plenty of other games out there that do much better and still maintain the fantasy/sci-fi element to it. I play it because honestly, I want to roll around as a Jedi Knight or a Warrior and experience the story. As long as that end holds up, the rest is gravy.

 

I don't know why some people are under the delusion that this game was so intricate in the first place as to somehow be much of a mental challenge. Most of the systems were just something you learned via experience or reading, and they're not that complex.

[KorbanShepard]

So please tell us...why are you playing this game and paying for it?

 

Because it's Star Wars, and I want to roll around as a Jedi Knight, Warrior or what have you. I like sci-fi and sci-fi fantasy, and so the idea of playing a charracter in a sci-fi/science fantasy world in some of my spare time is something I want to do. I would never make the case that I'm somehow doing this for my intelligence. ****, I wouldn't make that case for nearly any video game out there.

[Tsillah]

Because it's Star Wars, and I want to roll around as a Jedi Knight, Warrior or what have you. I like sci-fi and sci-fi fantasy, and so the idea of playing a charracter in a sci-fi/science fantasy world in some of my spare time is something I want to do. I would never make the case that I'm somehow doing this for my intelligence. ****, I wouldn't make that case for nearly any video game out there.

 

Nobody said they're doing it for their intelligence, I certainly didn't say that. But it does require some intelligence to play a game. You don't need to be Einstein but you do require some basic intelligence to get concepts in general.

 

Saying differently is just silly really.

[KorbanShepard]

Nobody said they're doing it for their intelligence, I certainly didn't say that. But it does require some intelligence to play a game. You don't need to be Einstein but you do require some basic intelligence to get concepts in general.

 

Saying differently is just silly really.

 

No people are just saying that going from four stats that are the exact same thing to one stat that is the exact same thing as the previous four stats is somehow making things dumb. A simpler solution is not a less intelligent one by any means. A more complex solution soley for the sake of looking more complex than it really is, is stupid. That's what you're referring to as being more intelligent than the simpler option is a more complex option that offers absolutely no advantages.

[Canareth]

If you think the current main stat design has depth or choice in it, you're the guy who was begging for more strength leather in WoW because your rogue should hit harder. Except this is somewhat worse since that was just ~33% effective wheres using the wrong "main stat" in SWTOR is like wearing endurance-only armor.

 

It's phony complexity and to the determine of people who try to play the game intuitively. The armor you wear might as well be all class-locked because those are the only people who should be wearing it. Again I am reminded of WoW where you could have random drop enchantments like "of the Whale" which were entirely useless and more commonly called Of the Vendor. They were only good for selling or melting for enchantment scrap but people WOULD equip them. Usually paladins because it would show up on plate and Spirit/Stamina seemed like it might have a use (it didn't).

[oofalong]

The Sentinel/Marauder ability Force Melt/Rend is literally identical mechanically to Sage/Sorceror Weaken Mind/Affliction. 18-second duration, damage over time ability, no CD. Fire and forget for twelve global cooldowns. (Ignoring the 3.2.1 change of Force Melt/Rend which removed three seconds of duration [one tick of damage]; for the vast majority of the game's life, these two spells were identical mechanically.)

...

 

I am not sure how you can assert that Force Rend and Affliction are mechanically the same thing. Yes, they are both DoTs and to a large extent all DoTs behave the same way so does every ability though...

 

The variability comes from the damage done - Force Rend does more per tick, the cost of the ability vastly different given different resource pools, and most importantly how it synergizes with the rest of the discipline.

[Diviciacus]

I am not sure how you can assert that Force Rend and Affliction are mechanically the same thing. Yes, they are both DoTs and to a large extent all DoTs behave the same way so does every ability though...

 

The variability comes from the damage done - Force Rend does more per tick, the cost of the ability vastly different given different resource pools, and most importantly how it synergizes with the rest of the discipline.

 

Damage value isn't a mechanic, that's tuning.

 

Cool down vs not. That's mechanical.

Cast time vs not. Mechanic.

Pure damage over time vs. dot+instant hit. Mechanic.

 

But the damage value? Doing 100 damage or 200 damage ( not the real values) has nothing to do with how the spell WORKS. Pre-3.2.1, Force Melt/Rend and Weaken Mind/Affliction had the same mechanics:

 

Eighteen second duration.

Instant cast time.

No cool down.

Pure dot (no extra hits, just 3 second periodic ticks.)

 

All identical. Mechanically, they are the same spell. Yes, tuning is different, but an overclocked GPU vs factory standard doesn't suddenly use different firmware, either. It's the flavour that separates the two (four) abilities.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Diviciacus

[Fireswraith]

The more I read about KotFE the more I come to realise.... it's not really an expansion. Sure they call it an expansion, but really it's not coming across like it. Seems to be more like the sequel MMO to SWTOR.

[KorbanShepard]

The more I read about KotFE the more I come to realise.... it's not really an expansion. Sure they call it an expansion, but really it's not coming across like it. Seems to be more like the sequel MMO to SWTOR.

 

That much, I agree with. I thought that the moment they announced it and how all these changes were coming as soon as your character got in on the story.

 

I don't know that it's a bad thing at all. It's kind of neat if it works the way I hope it does.

[Qui_Jon]

First off, we have four main-stats:

Aim, Cunning, Strength, and Willpower. None of these stats really do anything different with the exception that they only apply to one of four general classes.

 

This actually has created a problem and possibly still can within the game which is confusion among new players into thinking that the stats actually matter beyond what class your in or failing to recognize that without your class's main-stat , you lose the benefit of said stat.

I don't know about any of you, but I have memories of prior to 12xp running through various flashpoints where people were either running with characters with the wrong stats (and sometimes in roles such as tank or healer which IMO can be a good deal more disastrous than dps given the necessity of those roles during some boss fights) or they were needing on gear that didn't fit their character whatsoever.

 

The solution that Bioware Austin might be presenting will fix two problems for two parties.

 

For party A, the experienced player, you will no longer be running in a flashpoint with a completely (keyword here) improperly geared player. You now only have to worry about general competence, spec for said role, and whether or not they are using an armor less than what their class needs (though I suspect this may be fixed in the upcoming expac anyway). Also, now they can't need on gear that they can't use.

Thereby everybody has an equal chance at the gear. At least now, I can simply rage over the odds of getting that gear vs some idiot who selected it just because.

 

For party B, no longer will you be kicked because you are incompetently wearing the completely improperly stated gear. Now you will just be kicked from group missions because you are incompetent in some other way. The same goes with needing on gear.

 

On why this isn't dumbing down anything, to dumb the concept of the main-stat down implies that there was something intelligent behind that main-stat in the first place. The main-stat was only ever a concept copied and pasted from other MMO's that in this particular one did absolutely no favors for. It's not as if any of the class had any kind of defined roles that defined the stats.

At least 4 playable classes have the option of being one of all 3 roles depending upon your AC choice. So, please explain how Willpower, a stat that both impacts the melee shadow/assassin, or tank and dps, and simultaneously the ranged sorcorer/sage, or healer and dps, has any relevance other than it was arbitrarily attributed to that class and that class alone.

 

These stats may still make sense if BW was seeking to force a certain aesthetic to each of the classes, but clearly, and fortunately, Bioware came to the conclusion that character customization is far more important and that the Star Wars universe does have precedents for different outfits.

So, since these stats are relatively meaningless in the first place and do more to hinder group play than much else, they don't serve a purpose that helps the game or the player.

 

If you think somehow that the complexity makes things smarter then I have to question your intelligence. The simplest solution is usually the correct one and the best. If you're making things arbitrarily more complex without a noticeable benefit then you are truly being inefficient. How is that by any standard intelligent?

 

Sorry but I am not reading through the whole thread to see if this has been said but I will keep it as brief of a response to your points as possible.

 

First off I don't consider the old system to be hard to figure out, basically you had 4 different classes which all took their own main stat, so 4 main stats. Not really rocket science. So if people were "Needing" on ops and Fps to get gear perhaps it was just to be an ****** or perhaps they just got tired of getting nothing and figured something they can sell to a vendor is better then nothing. Don't know there.

 

However to your "Point A" yes you will, and infact if you truly believe that the misgeared players were due to it being to confusing, now you have an even more confusing system for them. Look at it this way before sure a smuggler might have thought that Aim would do him good. However once he learned that aim is not his stat and that he would focus on cunning, that then one fact limited his ability to misgear quite a bit because of the secondary stats in the gear. Example, now that same stupid smuggler might think oh sweet I got a nice piece of gear it offers x main stat, y enduruance, and z shield. Accept shield for a smuggler is no good at all. Sure he is getting some benefit, but where the AIM directly made him aware this was not for him, now you mix in other sideline stats into a base of generic main stat gear IMO would end of being more confusing for the know nothing newb or mentally challenged player.

 

Now as such if my response to point A is correct, then your point B is also shot to hell. because well now you wont be kicking him for having the wrong main stat, it will be because his alclarity or crit or surge isn't up to par because he has mistakenly geared with generic stat gear that was still intended to work for a different class of character, still leaving him in the eyes of most op and fp teams as being gimped.

 

As for your drops, ok I guess you can take some comfort in knowing that people can now need anything, but again, not really, First off a drop with a shield chance isn't going to be needed by a smuggler or agent. So them selecting need will still be angering to you. And frankly as fast as some groups move on, that nice tell tale sign of seeing the wrong main stat and passing or selecting greed might now just become needing everything and sorting it out later. And you are still going to want to kick people taking what you want. And you are going to have even lower chances of winning the roll the more people that think they "Need" that item. there atleast now are always some on your team or op that will play nice and fair with drops and don't give into utter greed.

 

So overall whatever, I know what my characters need and what they don't, I know what stats go to what toons and what doesn't. Overall this really doesn't degrade my play in any way and I am not in any way starting a rage quit movement over it, but frankly it seems unneeded overall, and I could think of a ton of better ways for the devs to have used their limited time and resources to do something actually worthwhile and improving the game rather then spending all this time to really just maintain a status quo under a new dynamic that changes really nothing.

[Dontelar]

However to your "Point A" yes you will, and infact if you truly believe that the misgeared players were due to it being to confusing, now you have an even more confusing system for them. Look at it this way before sure a smuggler might have thought that Aim would do him good. However once he learned that aim is not his stat and that he would focus on cunning, that then one fact limited his ability to misgear quite a bit because of the secondary stats in the gear. Example, now that same stupid smuggler might think oh sweet I got a nice piece of gear it offers x main stat, y enduruance, and z shield. Accept shield for a smuggler is no good at all. Sure he is getting some benefit, but where the AIM directly made him aware this was not for him, now you mix in other sideline stats into a base of generic main stat gear IMO would end of being more confusing for the know nothing newb or mentally challenged player.

I don 't see how a smuggler knowing that aim isn't helpful to him is really much different from knowing that shield isn't helpful. It just changes which stats he should be avoiding - instead of the current aim/willpower/strength (judging solely by the names, all of them could potentially be of some benefit to everyone), he now needs to avoid shield/defense/absorb (of which, two of them sound very obviously like tank stats). Actually sounds less confusing to me!

 

As for your drops, ok I guess you can take some comfort in knowing that people can now need anything, but again, not really, First off a drop with a shield chance isn't going to be needed by a smuggler or agent. So them selecting need will still be angering to you. And frankly as fast as some groups move on, that nice tell tale sign of seeing the wrong main stat and passing or selecting greed might now just become needing everything and sorting it out later. And you are still going to want to kick people taking what you want. And you are going to have even lower chances of winning the roll the more people that think they "Need" that item. there atleast now are always some on your team or op that will play nice and fair with drops and don't give into utter greed.

Again, I disagree. The smuggler/agent could still potentially get an upgrade for something by ripping the armoring from the shield to put in something else. In my experience at least, there are a LOT of people with severely underlevelled gear, and I'd much rather see a smuggler with 150 rating tank armoring over a smuggler with 60 rating DPS armoring.

 

So overall whatever, I know what my characters need and what they don't, I know what stats go to what toons and what doesn't. Overall this really doesn't degrade my play in any way and I am not in any way starting a rage quit movement over it, but frankly it seems unneeded overall, and I could think of a ton of better ways for the devs to have used their limited time and resources to do something actually worthwhile and improving the game rather then spending all this time to really just maintain a status quo under a new dynamic that changes really nothing.

Now, THIS I agree with completely. It feels completely unnecessary. Not bad in itself, but a waste of the devs time and resources. Though, considering how open they have been about the upcoming changes, for all we know, they have bigger, better plans for the future that make this somehow necessary and in typical BW fashion, just can be bothered to say so. Probably not, but hey, you never know.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Dontelar

[Qui_Jon]

I don 't see how a smuggler knowing that aim isn't helpful to him is really much different from knowing that shield isn't helpful. It just changes which stats he should be avoiding - instead of the current aim/willpower/strength (judging solely by the names, all of them could potentially be of some benefit to everyone), he now needs to avoid shield/defense/absorb (of which, two of them sound very obviously like tank stats). Actually sounds less confusing to me!

The point here I was going for was that in the current structure we have at least some basic idea of what goes with us based on the more simplistic starting point of what main stat the armor supports. If I see a drop or an equipment piece that gives a stat rating for aim, I know that I don't want to use it for my jedi knight. Now sure it might have some sideways benefit based on being able to tear something out of it of use, but it fully would benefit likely a trooper or bounty hunter and taking it to just use an enhancement and throw the rest away is kinda dickish imo. But it doesn't take long really to get the idea that on a basic level of what classes goes with what stats. However IMO you have even more confusion with the sub stat bonuses. When you get into shield, absorb, alc, crit, surge, defense, accuracy, really most of these in some way sound like they could benefit any character. Heck my agent has a shield skill, two infact, so ya I should get some shield and absorb into him to buff that up. Oh wait but those two don't benefit those shields they only benefit the trooper and jedi knight (and their dark side equivalent) shields.

So even more so yes critical can help any class of player as well as surge, or accuracy or alcalarity (sp?) however is it needed for my class? I mean sure my Guardian Jedi Knight in tank spec can get a benefit from having critical slotted up, but at what expense to his defenses? And over all for a team dynamic, what is the expectation that a FP or OP groups puts on a tank spec jedi knight that he now wont be able to fill the role of because he only has half the points in defense, shield, or absorb as he should have. If they truly wanted to make it simpler they should have just outrightly labled on the equipment drops what classes could use them and then not allow them to slot into classes that would have wasted their use. Then still have mod-able armor pieces if you at some point wanted to make a custom equipped character that crossed over.

If the intention was to allow for players to achieve a more custom look based on the availability of equipment pieces to all classes that could have easily been achieved by just making a vendor that basicly just sold cross class equipment pieces with no stat bonuses at all to slot into your custom outfit slots.

But if the intention was to simplify player equipping, IMO this doesn't do anything to solve that problem and really keeps just as confusing of a system (if a player found the old system confusing) and perhaps makes it a little bit more confusing now based on the amount of options to pieces where the lower stat bonuses have no real benefit to them or their team in filling their role.

If this was the problem they were attempting to solve IMO simply making specific class armor with specific bonuses that more limited the use (so would limit to tank spec jedi knight for example rather then all jedi knights) solved that problem a lot more easily then reworking the entire stat system would have been. But again this is just my opinion, I don't find either the old or new system so cumbersome to think it will be an issue for me either way.

[lpope]

Damage value isn't a mechanic, that's tuning.

 

Cool down vs not. That's mechanical.

Cast time vs not. Mechanic.

Pure damage over time vs. dot+instant hit. Mechanic.

 

But the damage value? Doing 100 damage or 200 damage ( not the real values) has nothing to do with how the spell WORKS. Pre-3.2.1, Force Melt/Rend and Weaken Mind/Affliction had the same mechanics:

 

Eighteen second duration.

Instant cast time.

No cool down.

Pure dot (no extra hits, just 3 second periodic ticks.)

 

All identical. Mechanically, they are the same spell. Yes, tuning is different, but an overclocked GPU vs factory standard doesn't suddenly use different firmware, either. It's the flavour that separates the two (four) abilities.

 

LOL, I see you conveniently ignored my previous response.

 

Affliction:

Automatic refresh based on application of another ability: mechanic

Buffs other abilities: mechanic

 

Therefore, not identical. Similar, but not identical.

[CaraExas]

How so? All raids already drop 1 set piece per boss, which is just a token gear. That hasn't killed raiding at all and just makes you run it more.

 

at tier there are around 10 bosses equaling to 10 pieces to divide among 8 people.

 

next tier will be over 40 bosses so over 40 pieces to divide among 8 people. min max the raid group in 2 weeks or less.

[oofalong]

...

All identical. Mechanically, they are the same spell. Yes, tuning is different, but an overclocked GPU vs factory standard doesn't suddenly use different firmware, either. It's the flavour that separates the two (four) abilities.

 

The way with which you have defined mechanical seems excessively inclusive. Using the same interpretation, every dual wielding ability is the same, every heal is the same, etc. I don't expect you to change your point of view, but I feel your definition is misleading and wrong.

[Khryn]

The change doesn't really bother me too much. It does say that Bioware-EA has no faith in their customers ability to read.

 

What I'm concerned about is Datacrons. Right now it's not too big of a deal. Change all those to +Mastery and you now have a serious advantage over anyone that has not collected them.

[Zharik]

<snip>What I'm concerned about is Datacrons. Right now it's not too big of a deal. Change all those to +Mastery and you now have a serious advantage over anyone that has not collected them.

 

I'm sure they'll basically just chop the average gain from an individual datacron by about 1/4.

[Heat-Wave]

This right here. To argue it's not is just ludicrous.

 

That being said...I only use Legacy gear as it is, so this changes nothing for me really. Good? Bad? Meh...

 

Actually, it DOES change things for you...

 

Before, you couldn't swap gear between a Sniper and a Bounty Hunter. Both need, more or less, the same gear... but, the Sniper needed Cunning, the BH needed Aim. Now they both use Mastery, so you can now have 1 set of DPS gear, 1 set of tank gear, and 1 set of healing gear...

 

Of course you can have everyone in basic comms gear for basic PvE stuff, since that stuff is fine for anything normal, but you no longer need to build multiple sets of "elite end game gear" for raiding.

 

This actually makes setting up for HM ops much, much easier.

 

I currently have 2 toons decked out in 192/198 token gear, one Trooper and one Guardian, for DPS and tanking in HM ops. Otherwise everyone else is in a mix of 186 basic, 192 token, 192 elite, and 198 ultimate comms gear. Those toons are fine for everything but 60 HM ops.

 

The 2 elite toons could now share their gear with just about all my toons, for end game stuff.

[Khevar]

Not to mention the nightmare now of whatever FP or OP you are running everyone will be needing for the same piece every time. In an organized guild this will likely not be an issue so long as your leadership sets up some order or rotation and keeps track. The Group finder however is going to be a $^#t Show.

That would hardly be a "nightmare", or a "$#!t" show.

 

The biggest drama is over someone needing on obviously wrong stats (e.g. Sent needing on Cunning Gear). Eliminating that possibility is hardly going to make things worse. Heck, it might even reduce drama.

[Max_Killjoy]

Mashing up Crit and Surge into one thing continues to be a terrible idea, that reduces the flexibility of builds.

[DCFDTL]

I'll be honest, I would much rather have the occasional nitwit who Needs on something that isn't their main stat(which doesn't happens anymore near mid-game content),

than having the entire party Needing on one particular item just cause it's an upgrade for everyone