I lost a duel with a sorc healer...who wants my stuff?

[DethlaHadyn]

Yeah, I'm making this thread to deal with the shame, and to find support haha

 

If you want my stuff before I unsub, post your reasons why you deserve my credits.

 

#theshameisreal

[Swedish_Arrow]

My main is a carnage marauder and I too feel like this class cannot compete in post 3.0. I've done solo ranked pvp where the common sentiment is to bee-line for the Mara/sent. We are a pure dps class with bursty damage but the devs have made it so we can't compete when everyone else can basically heal or stand through the damage. In pve, it's mDPS need not apply and the mechanics give us a lot of downtime with little to no dps. This is killer for the 2500 dps check for under lurker for PuG groups. The devs may seem a little vindicative at times because of what our community has done to them irl. I hope you can either re roll a new class and find a new way to enjoy the game on your current server or another. Or wait until the next expansion where there will be a new overhaul. Don't be afraid to leave the game because it is your money and your credits. Personally, I have found fun with galactic star fighter on the Bastion and you are more than welcome to join my guild Corellian Death Squad where we have fun. If no one of this appeals to you, maybe switch to premade group pvp where some marauders begin to shine. Do I deserved your credits, no. But I would like to have them if you absolutely do not wish to play anymore. But search around you may still find a way to make use of marauders. Cheers! -Xavieres (The Bastion)

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

My main is a carnage marauder and I too feel like this class cannot compete in post 3.0. I've done solo ranked pvp where the common sentiment is to bee-line for the Mara/sent. We are a pure dps class with bursty damage but the devs have made it so we can't compete when everyone else can basically heal or stand through the damage. In pve, it's mDPS need not apply and the mechanics give us a lot of downtime with little to no dps. This is killer for the 2500 dps check for under lurker for PuG groups. The devs may seem a little vindicative at times because of what our community has done to them irl. I hope you can either re roll a new class and find a new way to enjoy the game on your current server or another. Or wait until the next expansion where there will be a new overhaul. Don't be afraid to leave the game because it is your money and your credits. Personally, I have found fun with galactic star fighter on the Bastion and you are more than welcome to join my guild Corellian Death Squad where we have fun. If no one of this appeals to you, maybe switch to premade group pvp where some marauders begin to shine. Do I deserved your credits, no. But I would like to have them if you absolutely do not wish to play anymore. But search around you may still find a way to make use of marauders. Cheers! -Xavieres (The Bastion)

 

Marauders have it hard in PVP. Very few do well, but there are some. They are much more viable in PVE. While melee certainly have it harder than ranged in the 60 Operations and others that have certain instances of a similar mechanic, skilled Marauders can hold there own, albeit with more difficulty. Marauder's are not the "rare birds" in progression raiding some might suppose. I'm one of them =]. While Marauders are more than capable of laying down some severe smack down, there is no question that a sniper or a PT for example will have an easier time of it, be able to perform well DPS wise and be less of a tax on healers.

 

That said, I am hopeful that in October when 4.0 drops Marauders will have an easier time of it with some of the changes it will bring. The devs are quite aware of the discontent , the difficulties, and even the predjudices Marauders have been mired in since 3.0 and have been aware long enough to have had the time necessary to address some of these problems and correct them. If 4.0 comes and these issues have not been addressed to a large degree, the uproar will be equally large and rightly so.

[Kyovarde]

My main is a carnage marauder and I too feel like this class cannot compete in post 3.0. I've done solo ranked pvp where the common sentiment is to bee-line for the Mara/sent. We are a pure dps class with bursty damage but the devs have made it so we can't compete when everyone else can basically heal or stand through the damage. In pve, it's mDPS need not apply and the mechanics give us a lot of downtime with little to no dps. This is killer for the 2500 dps check for under lurker for PuG groups. The devs may seem a little vindicative at times because of what our community has done to them irl. I hope you can either re roll a new class and find a new way to enjoy the game on your current server or another. Or wait until the next expansion where there will be a new overhaul. Don't be afraid to leave the game because it is your money and your credits. Personally, I have found fun with galactic star fighter on the Bastion and you are more than welcome to join my guild Corellian Death Squad where we have fun. If no one of this appeals to you, maybe switch to premade group pvp where some marauders begin to shine. Do I deserved your credits, no. But I would like to have them if you absolutely do not wish to play anymore. But search around you may still find a way to make use of marauders. Cheers! -Xavieres (The Bastion)

 

I did 3200~ on Underlurker 16m with terrible lag (comp can only handle 8m well). There's no reason why good/geared Sentinels/Marauders wouldn't be breaking 4k on it.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I did 3200~ on Underlurker 16m with terrible lag (comp can only handle 8m well). There's no reason why good/geared Sentinels/Marauders wouldn't be breaking 4k on it.

\

 

Please excuse the many spelling errors, my spell check isn't working and I am virtually illiterate left to my own devices.

 

There are many factors that can lower the DPS of even a skilled Marauder/Sentinel player and it have nothing to do with being a "Good dps". Underlurker, while not being a very hard fight once you get the mechanics down is one of those fights that is guaranteed to lower the DPS of a Carnage or a Fury Marauder due to the breaks in action which are impossible to get around. I'm going to assume you are a Annihilation Marauder, and thus capable of leaving dots on your enemies when you can't be up and in their face.

 

I have to be honest here, (and this isn't directed at the poster, this is a general statement on the subject) the way some people throw around their DPS numbers out of context is kinda BS as far as I'm concerned. People put parses up saying "I did 5K in Bulo HM" blah blah blah, but what they neglect to mention is that they were doing 3.1k the whole fight at at the end spammed the f**k out of a group of 3 pirates with their AOE slash, while the rest of the group was doing whatever the hell they were doing on the pirates as well, all the while the Mara in the group of pirates is being tunnel healed by the 2 healers while he was wapping away, padding the numbers.

 

 

Let's take the ULer scenario. Fury/Carnage. The amount of uptime you get actually on Underlurker is minimal at best through 85% of the fight. The only people who are attacking ULer a decent amount of the time, is the one person lucky enough to get *** duty, and some ranged dps who weren't given add duty. Marauders are almost always on add duty it seems (in my experience at any rate) which sucks. Target switching is bad enough. Target switching with a Boss that is taking up virtually all of your screen when add phases begin ( because you've just finished the cross phases at those points) making even seeing the damn adds problematic, or even worse it is one add who pops up right on top of where your standing with the boss to boot and immediately going all seismic on your ***, not the most clear and easy set up for effective add switching especially if you were assigned the add on the opposite side of the room (Lurker leaps wherever the hell he wants and theres no way of knowing where he will choose.)

 

My point is, every time your doing a target switch, you are losing seconds in doing so, whether because you can't see the add you were assigned, it's half way across the room and you can't leap to it because you just had to use your leap the get the boss in time when he chose to do the cross on the opposite side of the cavern, or because you made a minor error, these few seconds can have cause dips in your DPS. Considering DPS stands for Damage per Second, a loss of even 2 seconds starts to have results on your dps. So you might have been at 4k DPS on the boss, but lost some seconds with the adds. But that's just a few seconds, that you can make up for and get back to your previuos dps levels. That is, of course, until the rock phase. Second or 2 getting to the rock. 3 or 4 seconds behind the rock (unless there was an add close by your attacking, but that's an if), a couple of more seconds getting to the boss once you see where he's leaped to and getting into proper cross position. 7 or 8 second. Now multiply that x the amount of crosses you have to do throughout the fight. That's a whole lot of seconds you ain't DPSing nothing. Unless you are leaving dots, using regularly ranged attacks, you are losing DPS to the mechanics of the fight. This is why melee have it hard being competitive with rDPS. Because the mechanics of the fight make it impossible at certain times to attack.

 

I have never done 4k+ on Underlurker. I can parse 4.5k on a dummy. I'd say my general average parse is between 4.3-4.4 with he occasional 4.5. I am in half revanite/half resurrected, fully auged. My mainhand damage bonus is between 2400-2440 (I play around wth augs sometimes depending on the fight.) and I run alacrity about 425 as I don't have enough revanite mods/enhacements to make the alarcity build work ideal numbers, but im getting there. Never. I've beaten ULer on HM exactly one time. Trying attacking adds when your movement rate is reduced to 5% its normal rate the entire time the adds are out. So, during add phases, not only are you not attacking the boss. Your barely attacking the adds when you're melee. Leaping to one or being lucky enough to have already been where the add just happens to spring up, will give you some nice uptime, all things considered. Problem is everyones slowed and trying to make it to an add while getting ripped apart internally by the insane damage going out by the adds. 4k DPS becomes 2K DPS in about 8-10 seconds (a generalization).

 

There are some exceptional players out there, who seem the be able to some how defy the laws of physics (Take a bow Hayete =])

 

Tops are not averages. They are the best. Most players are not Tops, including myself. It's important that most players realize that it is the rare birds who are preforming to such high levels. I do a lot of pugging outside of my progression raid group as well so I get to see a lot of different people and how they perform on average. Your average player (Marauder), even your average good player, isn't doing 4K+ on ULer. Look around fleet, there is a high percentage of people who have it hard enough getting passed ULer at all. (I'm not sure why that is, but it clearly isn't because of some baddies, because its much to common you see "Starting at ULer", "Must have ULer achievement to join". The DPS requirement for DPS for ULer in sm is 2.5k. If your average Mara was pumping out 4+K on the regular, you wont not see so many groups having a hard time getting past ULer. Just because you have the capacity to put out better DPS doesn't mean you can always put out those numbers. If someone only pulls 3.2k out of ULer, that doesn't mean they are incapable of putting out higher dps than 3.2k.

 

BS like this is what scares people off from trying a lot of things they might want to because they read all the crap people put out and say and think they can't live up to it.

 

We don't chose the mechanics. Some work on out favor some work against us. I do great against Sparky, Bulo, Malaphar (HM and SM) On the fights that have a lot of target switching (Uler, Commanders), I do ok, but I don't tend to come in first DPS wise where as the other fights I tend to). The worst culprit of all with regard to downtime being forced on the players and absolutely eviscerating DPS numbers is revan fight. Stand around for a while between phases seeing where the hell things are going to spawn. Have a nice stroll up the stone stairs a few times while having to be careful you don't fall to your doom. Attack some girders and than wait to see where a magical portal will open. 5k dps will become 0k DPS with lulls like that. The only thing that can save you is the end phases where for all intense and purposes you are starting all over again.

 

My point?

 

Each player's DPS score at the end of each fight that you see in Parsec or Star Parse, etc. is not the DPS they put out during the entire fight. It is the DPS they put out at the very end of the last lull (whatever that may have been) til the end of the fight. You can have 4.5k DPS for 95% of the fight, but if something interrupts that flow (and for melee there is always something) that's not going to be what you end up with at the end of the fight. That is why so many people try to pad their numbers by aoeing adds at the end phases of fights if possible.

 

Than again, maybe I just suck. That's always a distinct possibility. All I can say to that is that no one has ever said that about me and people always want me in their OPs groups, and I am no Hayete. But, I'm working on it =].

[DNGDangerous]

My main is a marauder... And marauder is my only max level character. My account type is founder subscriber...

 

And i like sugar cookies...

[jauvtus]

I'm not a very good Combat sent. I barely break 4k on dummy, no matter how hard I try. They told me UL HM needs burst, so I used Combat. I got ~2k, no kill ofc. Then I returned to my original spec (Watchman) and the fight got way easier (broke around 3,3-3,5k dps, cant remember). And besides the fact that it was my original spec, it has 1 great advantage to Combat: shorter CD, no min distance Force Leap. You should try it, no problems with reaching either boss or adds in time. (I hope I dont say anything new when I say you should use Fleetfooted Transendence after the adds die, use Force Camo behind the rock/just before the Devastation hits, Rebuke on adds and UL will suddenly become one if the easiest bossfights - and as Watchman even your dps is good)

[JouerTue]

you can also pacify the adds, and if the tank is with you it's a cake.

said so, pvp is very hard and sorcs can kite like no other classes can..

[Lalainnia]

you can also pacify the adds, and if the tank is with you it's a cake.

said so, pvp is very hard and sorcs can kite like no other classes can..

 

This^ pacify gbtf trans rebuke saber ward between those its more than enough

 

 

As to the op about losing a duel to a sorc healer that's nothing new healers have always been great in duels specifically operative healers and sorc healers this is nothing new was like this from i dunno like 2.0 tbh. plus with sorc healers current stat of healing its even less of shock don't let something like that be the reason for bailing on a class/spec sents main issues before were sticking on a target they have the ability to do so now. Only thing left is to mesh some of the utility skills.

[jauvtus]

This^ pacify gbtf trans rebuke saber ward between those its more than enough

 

 

As to the op about losing a duel to a sorc healer that's nothing new healers have always been great in duels specifically operative healers and sorc healers this is nothing new was like this from i dunno like 2.0 tbh. plus with sorc healers current stat of healing its even less of shock don't let something like that be the reason for bailing on a class/spec sents main issues before were sticking on a target they have the ability to do so now. Only thing left is to mesh some of the utility skills.

 

What? A mando healer is lecturing us

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.: Ofc, you are right

[Lalainnia]

What? A mando healer is lecturing us

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.: Ofc, you are right

 

O no lol I just play with a lot of sents is all.

[DNGDangerous]

So... Can I haz? Lol!

[Ghenghis-Khan]

4 toons, each has kids with mouths to feed, all sith, there is no welfare on the sith side. Only republic has well fare (commie bastards). Help feed my kids and kem val. Before kem val eats them. Character name is KingofSpades. Edited August 13, 2015 by Ghenghis-Khan

[Aluvi]

To be fair, marauders have NEVER been top duelists. Not even in their absolute smash prime. Operatives and Sins have always been better, and PTs were always on par.

 

Back when Maras were considered "OP", we still couldn't beat a good operative, sniper, PT (eh, I\ll call the PT a draw actually), or sin. We could reliably beat a jugg if they didn't have intercede targets, and you could usually beat a sorc, although.. a good sorc could basically just run away. I mean they wouldn't kill you, and it would effectively remove them from the fight, but you also wouldn't kill them.

 

Before Sin dot spread, they were still the most lethal 1v1 class around. The only class that came even remotely close was a hybrid specced operative.

 

Yet, because the most popular pvp content was 8v8 normal and ranked warzones (read: team games with trinity comps), marauders had a place. Not because they were top duelists, but because they put out great dps and pressure, they were fairly sturdy and hard to kill, and they provided some utility. Even with ranked arenas coming out, they still had a place in the predominantly trinity comp 4v4 ranked games.

 

So what I'm driving at here is this: don't feel bad for losing a duel on your mara / sent. At the BEST of times, they were mediocre duelers, and lost as much as they won, skill and cooldown usage being equal. Right now, just about every class is better than them in a 1v1 scenario. That doesn't mean that I'm happy with the current hierarchy of pvp OPness right now in SWTOR, but I also don't think that losing a duel on your mara is cause for alarm.

[DNGDangerous]

Yet, because the most popular pvp content was 8v8 normal and ranked warzones (read: team games with trinity comps), marauders had a place. Not because they were top duelists, but because they put out great dps and pressure, they were fairly sturdy and hard to kill, and they provided some utility. Even with ranked arenas coming out, they still had a place in the predominantly trinity comp 4v4 ranked games.

 

Id like to add- my favorite part of this presure/utility..: was the quick interupts... Great great combination

[Vember]

To be fair, marauders have NEVER been top duelists. Not even in their absolute smash prime. Operatives and Sins have always been better, and PTs were always on par.

 

Back when Maras were considered "OP", we still couldn't beat a good operative, sniper, PT (eh, I\ll call the PT a draw actually), or sin. We could reliably beat a jugg if they didn't have intercede targets, and you could usually beat a sorc, although.. a good sorc could basically just run away. I mean they wouldn't kill you, and it would effectively remove them from the fight, but you also wouldn't kill them.

 

Before Sin dot spread, they were still the most lethal 1v1 class around. The only class that came even remotely close was a hybrid specced operative.

 

Yet, because the most popular pvp content was 8v8 normal and ranked warzones (read: team games with trinity comps), marauders had a place. Not because they were top duelists, but because they put out great dps and pressure, they were fairly sturdy and hard to kill, and they provided some utility. Even with ranked arenas coming out, they still had a place in the predominantly trinity comp 4v4 ranked games.

 

So what I'm driving at here is this: don't feel bad for losing a duel on your mara / sent. At the BEST of times, they were mediocre duelers, and lost as much as they won, skill and cooldown usage being equal. Right now, just about every class is better than them in a 1v1 scenario. That doesn't mean that I'm happy with the current hierarchy of pvp OPness right now in SWTOR, but I also don't think that losing a duel on your mara is cause for alarm.

 

You and I have different memories of this game. DPS Sins are only recently good...for the first two years of the game they were crap, and Hatred (then Madness) was one of the absolute worst specs in the game for pvp in any form. Annihilation Marauder, at that time, shared the top dog dueling spot with Darkness Shadows.

[AcaciaDragon]

You and I have different memories of this game. DPS Sins are only recently good...for the first two years of the game they were crap, and Hatred (then Madness) was one of the absolute worst specs in the game for pvp in any form. Annihilation Marauder, at that time, shared the top dog dueling spot with Darkness Shadows.

 

And Tracer Missle Spam <shudders>

[Overmind]

Yeah, I'm making this thread to deal with the shame, and to find support haha

 

If you want my stuff before I unsub, post your reasons why you deserve my credits.

 

#theshameisreal

Don't surrender.

Marauders never surrender. We just kill everything, even if tank and heal stay CiH.

Unfortunately, they are not built for PVP...at all.

The big disaster is when fighting something that has cover shield. No jump. No rotation. No chance.

[Vodrin]

What? A mando healer is lecturing us

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.: Ofc, you are right

 

Well, he is mostly correct. Sorc healers are a very tough 1v1 kill for any melee right now, and they are kiting beasts if spec'd correctly.

 

To be fair, marauders have NEVER been top duelists. Not even in their absolute smash prime. Operatives and Sins have always been better, and PTs were always on par.

 

Back when Maras were considered "OP", we still couldn't beat a good operative, sniper, PT (eh, I\ll call the PT a draw actually), or sin. We could reliably beat a jugg if they didn't have intercede targets, and you could usually beat a sorc, although.. a good sorc could basically just run away. I mean they wouldn't kill you, and it would effectively remove them from the fight, but you also wouldn't kill them.

 

Before Sin dot spread, they were still the most lethal 1v1 class around. The only class that came even remotely close was a hybrid specced operative.

 

Yet, because the most popular pvp content was 8v8 normal and ranked warzones (read: team games with trinity comps), marauders had a place. Not because they were top duelists, but because they put out great dps and pressure, they were fairly sturdy and hard to kill, and they provided some utility. Even with ranked arenas coming out, they still had a place in the predominantly trinity comp 4v4 ranked games.

 

So what I'm driving at here is this: don't feel bad for losing a duel on your mara / sent. At the BEST of times, they were mediocre duelers, and lost as much as they won, skill and cooldown usage being equal. Right now, just about every class is better than them in a 1v1 scenario. That doesn't mean that I'm happy with the current hierarchy of pvp OPness right now in SWTOR, but I also don't think that losing a duel on your mara is cause for alarm.

 

 

Also right on point with one exception: In 1.0 and shortly after watchman/anni was one of the strongest 1v1 specs in the game. The self healing was amazing with very good damage output (despite substantial ramp up) and the ability to completely reset the fight by timing zen with GBTF and a med pack made it a bit ridiculous. Otherwise you are absolutely correct in saying that Sent/mara has never been a great dueling class.

 

You and I have different memories of this game. DPS Sins are only recently good...for the first two years of the game they were crap, and Hatred (then Madness) was one of the absolute worst specs in the game for pvp in any form. Annihilation Marauder, at that time, shared the top dog dueling spot with Darkness Shadows.

 

I remember deception/madness hybrids being very strong 1v1 for a good deal of time, and darkness sins were the top dueling class during Annihilation's heyday (at least if they ran with DPS gear they were).

Edited August 19, 2015 by Vodrin

[Sancance]

You and I have different memories of this game. DPS Sins are only recently good...for the first two years of the game they were crap, and Hatred (then Madness) was one of the absolute worst specs in the game for pvp in any form. Annihilation Marauder, at that time, shared the top dog dueling spot with Darkness Shadows.

 

Ahh I miss the days of Annihilation being so awesome!! It's decent now, but nothing like it used to be!

[jauvtus]

Ahh I miss the days of Annihilation being so awesome!! It's decent now, but nothing like it used to be!

 

Anni once was feared. Now better than average players just laugh if they see the Juyo form on an opponent.

[Vodrin]

Ahh I miss the days of Annihilation being so awesome!! It's decent now, but nothing like it used to be!

 

It was frankly overpowered at launch. The bug that doubled the self heal was nuts. I picked a lot of 1v2 and 1v3 fights on Illum and won because of the combination of GBTF on short cooldown from set bonus and self heal.

[Overmind]

It is not logical to imply that something must suck because it was OP a long time ago.

[ped_i]

This^ pacify gbtf trans rebuke saber ward between those its more than enough

 

 

As to the op about losing a duel to a sorc healer that's nothing new healers have always been great in duels specifically operative healers and sorc healers this is nothing new was like this from i dunno like 2.0 tbh. plus with sorc healers current stat of healing its even less of shock don't let something like that be the reason for bailing on a class/spec sents main issues before were sticking on a target they have the ability to do so now. Only thing left is to mesh some of the utility skills.

 

BONK!!!! Didn't expect to find you in our forums

[Lalainnia]

BONK!!!! Didn't expect to find you in our forums

 

bonkbonk Iv'e been wandering around seeing what other classes do and what they think about stuff plus it's fun and nice to see other classes outside of the healers. Also get to see what other classes do or use during ops and pvp and in what type of situations and other stuffz.