Which villain was handled better? Revan or the Dread Masters?

[Slowpokeking]

I think Revan was shown more characteristic through the story of FA and Yavin, but his threat and strength was not shown too well since the Yavin storyline was too short.

 

The Dread Masters were given a lot of ops/daily areas to show their reach on different places, different factions through different power. However I think they were not handled well as characters, they only showed a bit characteristic in the ops encounter and it was awesome, too bad we didn't see or know it earlier. It would have been better if Oricon was longer and we fight Brontes only. Leave the other four for another planet/storyline.

[RTCBrad]

I didn't like how Revan was handled in this game at all.

 

The only part they did well was when you free him from the prison and Meetra is there etc. It's the only part that actually feels like a Revan story. The rest where he is some lunatic bent on destroying the galaxy is absurd. His character was always as Jedi doing what he thought was right and protecting the galaxy. He was turned to the DS by the emperor not because he fell he was then redeemed and restored to his former self, so to bring him out of stasis on some ridiculous mission to commit genocide was lame.

 

Then to bring him back as a lunatic again was even more stupid. The story should have been more focussed on Revan creating the Revanites as a resistance to the Emperor and have him as the guy leading the charge. Then the whole expansion could have been focussed on Vitiate fight.

 

It would have been far better handled if it were done like WoTLK with Tiron Fordring leading the crusade against the Lich King uniting the Horde and Alliance. Makes for a far more epic story than what we were given imo. Revan was way to good of character to be implemented so badly twice.

 

I almost wish they had just killed him in the Revan novel with Meetra than ruin what was a great character.

[Darkelefantos]

It would have been better if Oricon was longer and we fight Brontes only. Leave the other four for another planet/storyline.

That draws it out way too much imo (the Dread Masters were around for a long time) and doesn't fit their story. They tell you on Oricon how much they struggle with their powers and their sanity with only 5 of them left and Styrack dead. Wouldn't make sense for the story to go on for further months (game time) with 4 Masters left when they're already on edge with 5.

 

Plus, you know, in the end, they wanted to die anyway.

[Rodyn]

I like some things the established with Revan in SoR, like him going insane due to being unable to control the light side and dark side, and his zealous crusade against the Emperor at all costs. I think it's logical character development that's been suffering from VItiate's torture for three-hundred years. However, I think making him and the Revanites antagonists was a little odd. It wasn't really explained why they were hostile to both the Republic and the Empire, nor why he didn't just take his army and invade Yavin IV in secret without trying to draw the ire of them (as far as I can remember; I may be wrong). I assume it was because this was his dark (insane) side, who wasn't much interested in compromise, and was too concerned with his revenge to care what anyone else had to say.

 

The Republic would probably be willing to listen to him again if they found out he survived the Foundry incident, too. The Empire, not so much, but he could at least try to avoid drawing their attention, or maybe if he somehow made a good appeal towards the Dark Council about Vitiate, things could have worked out better (probably impossible, admittedly), and the Revanites could've instead acted as something of a binding point between the Republic and Imperial forces to take down Vitiate.

 

I liked the build-up, though, with the Korriban, Tython, Manaan, and Lehon flashpoints. At the time when the storyline was just being led-on by those, I was genuinely intrigued.

 

The Dread Masters, I felt, were a little on the flat side in terms of motivation. Back before the Emperor's true evil was obvious, I was speculating that they were secretly being manipulated by him to sew anarchy in the galaxy (since Vitiate's been implied to be the Big Bad of TOR since all the way back during pre-launch), but evidently they were only out for their own interests (I have yet to do the operations, though, so I don't know if there are any additional implications in them).

 

It was a neat little storyline, though, even if the storyline was more tucked away than usual for TOR. Started off with the Imperial players freeing them in the Belsavis world story, then with Section X, they went rogue and instigated a prison break where they began taking control of numerous subjects, as well as attempting to use the Aurora Cannon for themselves (but being foiled); then Explosive Conflict operation, where they converted Republic, Imperial and Trandoshan mercenary forces to their side; then the Terror From Beyond operation, in which the Dread Masters were summoning the eponymous creature on the Gree world of Asation.

 

Then, of course, there was the Seeds of Rage storyline, which was very entertaining, I thought. Started off with hunting for the Dread Seeds with the seeker droid, and had a few missions to do with your friends, which I thought was neat. Then there was the Scum and Villainy operation on Darvannis, where the players had their first chance to take down a Dread Master. And then, finally, the war on Oricon, a moon that the Dread Masters chose to make their stand, introducing a new daily area and two new operations.

 

On the one hand, I think Revan benefited from the fact that his storyline had more first-hand story interaction akin tot the typical BioWare experience, which is something the Dread Master storyline was lacking. Additionally, I felt the former had more interesting motivation (a crusade of revenge due to being driven to madness) than the latter (take over the galaxy!), even if Revan's methods were rather strange to me, and not fully explained.

 

I kinda liked them both for their own reasons. I felt Revan had a more compelling storyline, whereas I felt the Dread Masters' introduced a nice diversity of content.

 

I think I have to go with Revan, though. Probably due to the emphasis on cutscenes, his storyline ended up feeling more engaging, as well as the involvement of Vitiate, wheras the Dread Masters' storyline felt more distant and almost inconsequential, due to the lack of personal story involvement.

[Darth_Wicked]

That draws it out way too much imo (the Dread Masters were around for a long time) and doesn't fit their story. They tell you on Oricon how much they struggle with their powers and their sanity with only 5 of them left and Styrack dead. Wouldn't make sense for the story to go on for further months (game time) with 4 Masters left when they're already on edge with 5.

 

Plus, you know, in the end, they wanted to die anyway.

 

For what is worth...

Their story would continue, in a way, in Rakata Prime, though again, outside a daily area, the exact specifics are difficult to narrow.

 

Regardless, you'd have to deal with Jaric Kaedan's apprentice, after he tried to stop the Dread Masters by himself -- like Kaedan did -- only to have fallen and become their slave in the process. He was presumably chasing some kind of weapon if memory serves me right.

 

This would all happen after Oricon, once the DM's were already dead, of course.

 

On another note, initially, Styrak wasn't meant to be killed on Darvannis. They changed that midway too.

 

Edited August 8, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Slowpokeking]

 

The Dread Masters, I felt, were a little on the flat side in terms of motivation. Back before the Emperor's true evil was obvious, I was speculating that they were secretly being manipulated by him to sew anarchy in the galaxy (since Vitiate's been implied to be the Big Bad of TOR since all the way back during pre-launch), but evidently they were only out for their own interests (I have yet to do the operations, though, so I don't know if there are any additional implications in them).

I think their motivation was very understandable, the Emperor is gone and they had no reason to serve those Dark Councilors. They wanted to create their own force and change the galaxy by their will.

 

I don't think the length was the main problem, it's the lack of characterization and interaction on the Dread Master storyline.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Slowpokeking

[menofhorror]

By far the dreadmasters.

[Anysao]

For what is worth...

Their story would continue, in a way, in Rakata Prime, though again, outside a daily area, the exact specifics are difficult to narrow.

 

Regardless, you'd have to deal with Jaric Kaedan's apprentice, after he tried to stop the Dread Masters by himself -- like Kaedan did -- only to have fallen and become their slave in the process. He was presumably chasing some kind of weapon if memory serves me right.

 

This would all happen after Oricon, once the DM's were already dead, of course.

 

On another note, initially, Styrak wasn't meant to be killed on Darvannis. They changed that midway too.

 

Actually, Wicks,

 

I read the same source you have. in the dialogue related to Darvannis, there's actually some mentioning about a Dread Master dying there. Furthermore, back when Oricon was supposed to be just one Operation, the dialogue lists the player stating that he/she "killed one Dread Master on Darvannis."

 

 

But to the OP: How could you pick from the two of them? The Dread Masters was a long winding story, meant for the high level PvE players. It had twists, turns, and an epic conclusion. Revan, on the other hand, was just the first installment of a much bigger story, the Emperor's. Where the Dread Masters were a finale, Revan was just the beginning.

 

Now in a few months, we'll probably have a better question in this forum: Were the Dread Masters of Valkorion handled better?

[Slowpokeking]

Actually, Wicks,

 

I read the same source you have. in the dialogue related to Darvannis, there's actually some mentioning about a Dread Master dying there. Furthermore, back when Oricon was supposed to be just one Operation, the dialogue lists the player stating that he/she "killed one Dread Master on Darvannis."

 

 

But to the OP: How could you pick from the two of them? The Dread Masters was a long winding story, meant for the high level PvE players. It had twists, turns, and an epic conclusion. Revan, on the other hand, was just the first installment of a much bigger story, the Emperor's. Where the Dread Masters were a finale, Revan was just the beginning.

 

Now in a few months, we'll probably have a better question in this forum: Were the Dread Masters of Valkorion handled better?

 

But you don't have much personal interaction with the Dread Masters or make much choices throughout the story, I think that's the flaw.

[Slowpokeking]

Also I think it would be nice if the Dread Masters could gain some victory, like Vitiate did on Ziost.

[Darth_Wicked]

Actually, Wicks,

 

I read the same source you have. in the dialogue related to Darvannis, there's actually some mentioning about a Dread Master dying there. Furthermore, back when Oricon was supposed to be just one Operation, the dialogue lists the player stating that he/she "killed one Dread Master on Darvannis."

 

No.

Republic-side, there was this character who'd say the following:

On Darvannis, you faced one Dread Master. Here on Oricon, however, you'll face all six.

 

Hence, Styrak -- or whoever you were supposed to face at the time -- was still alive, NOT dead.

 

Also, Commander Vox, Empire-side, also mentioned all Dread Masters working together, attempting to drive him insane. He was their former handler BTW, before they were stopped and detained by Jaric Kaedan and Republic Special Forces.

 

Edited August 8, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Slowpokeking]

We did face all Six in Dread Palace, even though Styrak and Brontes were dead, they came back as Sith Spirit.

 

On both of their death scenes, we saw the remaining Dread Master's vision showed up to cast a ritual. I think they were collecting the essence of the dead one so he/she could return as Sith Spirit to fight alongside them.

[Darkelefantos]

No.

Republic-side, there was this character who'd say the following:

 

 

Hence, Styrak -- or whoever you were supposed to face at the time -- was still alive, NOT dead.

 

Also, Commander Vox, Empire-side, also mentioned all Dread Masters working together, attempting to drive him insane. He was their former handler BTW, before they were stopped and detained by Jaric Kaedan and Republic Special Forces.

 

Well at least you still end up facing all 6 on Oricon even though Styrack was dead. With the dragon. However the heck that works.

 

Regarding the original question, I'd have to say that both weren't handled to their full potential. More could have been done with Revan to make his story seem less stupid. While for the Dread Masters, well, they didn't really ever accomplish a whole lot. And almost every time they tried something an Ops group came along and stopped their plans.

 

Szajin was much better than either of them and he wasn't even an Ops boss.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Darkelefantos

[Slowpokeking]

Well at least you still end up facing all 6 on Oricon even though Styrack was dead. With the dragon. However the heck that works.

 

Regarding the original question, I'd have to say that both weren't handled to their full potential. More could have been done with Revan to make his story seem less stupid. While for the Dread Masters, well, they didn't really ever accomplish a whole lot. And almost every time they tried something an Ops group came along and stopped their plans.

 

Szajin was much better than either of them and he wasn't even an Ops boss.

 

Pretty much, it would have been better if we can interact with them and let them win some victories.

 

But still, they caused a lot of terror and showed much strength even after their failures.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Slowpokeking

[Darth_Wicked]

Well at least you still end up facing all 6 on Oricon even though Styrack was dead. With the dragon. However the heck that works.

 

Regarding the original question, I'd have to say that both weren't handled to their full potential. More could have been done with Revan to make his story seem less stupid. While for the Dread Masters, well, they didn't really ever accomplish a whole lot. And almost every time they tried something an Ops group came along and stopped their plans.

 

Szajin was much better than either of them and he wasn't even an Ops boss.

 

 

Don't forget Brontes. She also was dead by the time we got to their inner most chamber.

 

[Slowpokeking]

Wonder what big help they could have been to the Empire if the Dread Masters had not betrayed them.

[lironBD]

Dread Masters as villians were much more epic then revan and I think for few reasons...

 

1. Revan was our character and we can't hate him

2. Revan was a war hero and even the he was psycho ghost with dual personality he tried to save the galaxy from the emperor.

 

The dread masters just decided the screw this and everyone will die with them.

[Nefla]

I still hate the fact that a crappy, emo, generic straight white guy with dark hair and stubble(Mr. Focus Test) is now Revan. This person completely overwrote and erased the existence of the characters we actually played in KotOR and was forced into the game so I'm gonna go with the Dread Masters...

[Excise]

Ooof, tough call.

 

I found the Dread Master storyline incredibly dull with pretty much no plot at all. It can be summed up as 'bad dudes are up to no good and you need to take them down'. You could remove nearly every Dread Master event and it'd change precious little. Section X? Irrelevant. The minor Karagga tie-in? Irrelevant. TfB? Irrelevant (...still a great raid, though). Imps at least got to meet them on Belsavis, but Pubbies more or less got the shaft.

 

The arc doesn't really have anything happen until SnV, and even then it was nothing beyond 'one of them finally died'. Oricon was really the first time I felt any of them got fleshed out and given some sort of personality and I appreciated that Styrak's death had consequences, but by then the arc was over.

 

Revan, on the other hand, at least got some twists and turns throughout Forged Alliances. SoR, for all of its faults, at least had some plot and character development. The problem with Revan was that sinking "ugh, this jerkwad again?" feeling throughout, as well as the retcons (re-interpretations?) of the Revanites.

 

So overall I found that Revan's plot had flaws, while the Dread Masters had no plot at all. My vote? Revan wins!

Edited August 9, 2015 by Excise

[menofhorror]

There were so many problems with the Revan storyline in Forged Alliances and SOR. The plan on Rishi didn`t make sense, Revan splitting into two didn`t really make sense or they didn`t seem to put much effort to make it believable, questions left unanswered how Marr got to knew about the emperors true plans or how how in this short amount of time the revanites suddenly became such a huge threat.

 

It just seems so farfetched to me and at so many turns I had to pause and question the plot.

[Leklor]

Honestly? Neither.

The Dread Master were horribly dull and, as vilains, mostly kept to ops so I first "met" them on Oricon with my JK and I was told I had a long history with them. Generaly speaking, the idea to use fear through the Force and the twisted effect of their powers were nice to look at but the characters themselves were weak.

 

Revan, on the other hand, was an attempt to fix what had been done to him in the original storyline.

I found SoR fun to play but certainly not for Revan. Having him go back to full vilain only to opt-out with a predictable split being... Not catastrophic but disapointing.

In a way, I would have liked for Revan to behave, as I believe was mentionned on this thread, like Tyrion Fordring in Wrath of the Lich King. The leader of an organization that is made up of Imps and Pubs tired of fighting when they know something worse (Vitiate) is lurking around. While I wouldn't have changed most of Forged Alliance, I would have developed Rishi and especially Yavin 4 towards an alliance with Revan as the leader of neutral Revanites, dedicated to fighting Vitiate, and possibly with Theron and, maybe, Lana joining their rank. Also, I'd have toned down the cult aspect of the whole thing.

[Pietrastor]

So overall I found that Revan's plot had flaws, while the Dread Masters had no plot at all.

Sums it up perfectly, nothing to add.

[ChazDoit]

I didn't like how Revan was handled in this game at all.

 

The only part they did well was when you free him from the prison and Meetra is there etc. It's the only part that actually feels like a Revan story. The rest where he is some lunatic bent on destroying the galaxy is absurd. His character was always as Jedi doing what he thought was right and protecting the galaxy. He was turned to the DS by the emperor not because he fell he was then redeemed and restored to his former self, so to bring him out of stasis on some ridiculous mission to commit genocide was lame.

 

Then to bring him back as a lunatic again was even more stupid. The story should have been more focussed on Revan creating the Revanites as a resistance to the Emperor and have him as the guy leading the charge. Then the whole expansion could have been focussed on Vitiate fight.

 

It would have been far better handled if it were done like WoTLK with Tiron Fordring leading the crusade against the Lich King uniting the Horde and Alliance. Makes for a far more epic story than what we were given imo. Revan was way to good of character to be implemented so badly twice.

 

I almost wish they had just killed him in the Revan novel with Meetra than ruin what was a great character.

 

Revan should have joined the Jedi Council after being released, and become a major character for the Republic characters, then you get to talk to him a lot more during mission briefings and maybe he reveals a bit more of his past.

 

Turning Revan into a Dungeon Boss and then into a Raid Boss is the heavy price this game story had to pay for being an MMO and not an RPG, every great character is turned into a freaking glorified piñata.

 

And what is ironic is that raiders don't give two damns if Revan is a raid boss or not, it could have been a beige sphere for all they care, what they want is new content for them to be released in a reasonable cadence. expect a lot of raiding guilds to leave the game now that Bioware is focusing more on story content.

Edited August 9, 2015 by ChazDoit

[DarthMetalJoey]

honestly i think revan should have been nothing more than a force ghost from the very start

a guide for our characters.. no matter if light or dark he would help turn us against vitiate who was all consume everything omnomnom

 

i hate that we had to fight him

when i saw his return in rakata fp i thought finally he is back! to unite us against the emperor and his loyal followers.... getting missions in person and over the holo from revan woulda been so sick..

 

 

now that revans force ghost i hope he appears later like ben kenobi and helps our characters more against eternal empire/vitaite... :/

 

:]

Edited August 9, 2015 by DarthMetalJoey

[Excise]

And what is ironic is that raiders don't give two damns if Revan is a raid boss or not, it could have been a beige sphere for all they care, what they want is new content for them to be released in a reasonable cadence. expect a lot of raiding guilds to leave the game now that Bioware is focusing more on story content.

 

Everyone's different, of course, but speaking as a raider personally I'm a fan of the raid having a decent story. Raid bosses with fun personalities (hello Blaster and Master!) or great voice overs (sup, Raptus?) are appreciated. My guild always gets a chuckle at how hilariously simple and bizarre the Ravagers plot is.