adormitul Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 It seem it was more like ruler of 3 since every sith that followed Darth Bane's sith rules did not respect it. Even he did not respect that rule. Why make a rule that nobody respected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranYukon Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 It seem it was more like ruler of 3 since every sith that followed Darth Bane's sith rules did not respect it. Even he did not respect that rule. Why make a rule that nobody respected? Well as of now the only canon Sith after Darth Bane that we have to discuss are Plagueis and Sidious, and Sidious' apprentices of course. Since the novels are no longer canon we know very little about Bane and Plagieus. Darth Sidious was very devoted to Bane's Rule of Two, calling it the first and only reality of the Sith. That's why he killed Savage Opress and ordered Dooku to execute Ventress. He believed, as did Bane, there should only be two in the Order at a time. However, apprentices did try to recruit "apprentices" of their own to help overthrow the Dark Lord. For example, Dooku with Savage and Ventress and Vader with Luke. However, I think even they would not call their respective underlings true Sith until the reigning dark lord was killed. You can see why apprentices would be a little more loose with their observation of the rule while the master would be very devoted. So the rule served its purpose. The master held the power, and apprentice craved it, and only when the apprentice was strong enough, would he or she gain the mantle of Dark Lord. Therefore, on the whole, I believe the rule was observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Darth Sidious was very devoted to Bane's Rule of Two,. You must train a heir to the Sith legacy in the Rule of Two, someone that will most probably surpass you and kill you. Sidious didn't bother with any of that ****. So no i wouldn't call Sidious devoted to Bane's Rule of Two. In fact out of all Sith in the Rule of Two, Sidious is the least devoted to Bane's rules,outside of Gravid. ...So he wanted there to be 2 sith, whoopty ****in' doo. Edited August 4, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranYukon Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) You must train a heir to the Sith legacy in the Rule of Two, someone that will most probably surpass you and kill you. Sidious didn't bother with any of that ****. So no i wouldn't call Sidious devoted to Bane's Rule of Two. In fact out of all Sith in the Rule of Two, Sidious is the least devoted to Bane's rules,outside of Gravid. ...So he wanted there to be 2 sith, whoopty ****in' doo. Sidious tells Yoda in ep. III that Darth Vader will become more powerful than either one of them. Meaning that at the time he expected Vader to surpass and kill him, and he was delighting in that. He even tempts Luke to kill him, believing whatever Luke decides, Sidious wins. It's also my understanding that he planned on being the final Sith Lord and never dying anyway. Besides the Rule of Two is quite simple. "Always two. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice." That's it, and the emperor observed it. Edited August 4, 2015 by TranYukon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) It's also my understanding that he planned on being the final Sith Lord and never dying anyway. Which means he isn't a good follower of Bane. Edited August 4, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranYukon Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Which means he isn't a good follower of Bane. The rule of two is quite simple. "Always two, no more, no less. A master and an apprentice." Sidious observed that to the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) The rule of two is quite simple. "Always two, no more, no less. A master and an apprentice." Sidious observed that to the letter. You should know why it's called The Rule of Two. It specifically serves to protect against the certainty of an individual Sith dying. Sidious the immortal god king of the galaxy (sarcasm) thought himself above that which Bane specifically warned against and the Sith payed the price, after Sidious died. Edited August 4, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senrie Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Because the Rule of Two is a more apt name than the "Rule of Two Except in Times of Succession and Unexpected Survival". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranYukon Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 You should know why it's called The Rule of Two. It specifically serves to protect against the certainty of an individual Sith dying. Sidious the immortal god king of the galaxy (sarcasm) thought himself above that which Bane specifically warned against and the Sith payed the price, after Sidious died. But the point is that Sidious followed what the Rule actually said and required of the order. Besides, if he intended Vader to become more powerful than him, and later Luke, how was he not training a successor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 But the point is that Sidious followed what the Rule actually said and required of the order. Besides, if he intended Vader to become more powerful than him, and later Luke, how was he not training a successor? Outside of having 2 sith in number he didn't follow any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranYukon Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Outside of having 2 sith in number he didn't follow any of it. What else is there? That's all the rule of two is. A rule to prevent the infighting and greed that destroyed the old Sith order by having only two of them. Please provide a canon source that gives another aspect to it. Not trying to be malicious, just really into Star Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNGDangerous Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Is this topic only using movie cannon, or expanded universe? If its movie cannon, I have not found a single point in which the emperor breaks the rule of two. Anytime he wants a new apprentice, he devises a way for the old apprentice to die (usually by the hands of the new intended apprentice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Sidious didn't need to follow the Rule of 2, because it was to get the most powerful Sith Lord in historyand to destroy the Jedi. Which Sidious did, he wiped out the Jedi and had the galaxy, he didn't need to follow the Rule of 2 because it had accomplished what it had been designed to do. 1. He was the most powerful Sith Lord= Check 2. He wiped out all of the Jedi Order, those Jedi that survived were either hunted down or ignored because they wouldn't prove a thread to him, or they were turned into serving the Empire as Dark Adepts/Dark Jedi. 3. He had the whole galaxy. Sidious literally had everything, the only thing he couldn't see was Vader turning on him because of Luke. Which really, why would he? He had transformed Anakin into the monster that was Vader, stripped him of all what was left of Anakin. Edited August 4, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) What else is there? That's all the rule of two is. A rule to prevent the infighting and greed that destroyed the old Sith order by having only two of them. Please provide a canon source that gives another aspect to it. Not trying to be malicious, just really into Star Wars Check up Rule of One(not Krayt's), Book of Sith and Bane's trilogy for further details on the RoT. Hell... the Plagueis book shows that even he abandoned it. Edited August 4, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) What else is there? That's all the rule of two is. A rule to prevent the infighting and greed that destroyed the old Sith order by having only two of them. Please provide a canon source that gives another aspect to it. Not trying to be malicious, just really into Star Wars But he did not respect it did you forgot that there is also a Darth Maul besides a Darth Vader at the same time? Edited August 4, 2015 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghenghis-Khan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) sidious implemented the rule of one. He expected to rule forever. Plaguis didn't care for the rule of two. So when tenebrous died the rule of two died with him. Sidious had underlings to carry out his bidding. Bane lived by the rule of two. He only took on a third apprentice cause he didn't think zannah would kill him when it came down to it. So he found a new apprentice and tried to steal zannah's body so he could live forever. (I still think he over took zannah despite what drew said after he wrote the book. I like to think he succeeded, that version would of ended better that way.) The rule of one seems like the smarter choice. Had sidious learned essense transfer that rule could of worked and he might have lived forever. the darth bane trilogy and plaguis book are my references. Edited August 4, 2015 by Ghenghis-Khan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) and tried to steal zannah's body so he could live long enough to train a new apprentice Edited August 4, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 actually IIRC Lords of the Sith, or Tarkin, eistablishes Palpatine trained Maul when he was still the apprentice. ergo it's canon that Palpatine was actually the apprentice in TPM. which makes sense. Maul wasn't a Sith Lord, he was a WEAPON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVengeant Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Have you ever asked yourself, who the heck will enforce this "Rule" heh? No one. There is no Sith Police. Bane made it up, some followed it after. No one is being forced to follow it, and frankly none should follow it if they don't want to. I certainly wouldn't. Palatine didn't really follow it himself. He had Maul while he was still an Apprentice himself. Assaj Ventress for example, she was a 3rd Sith under Dooku's teaching. So was Savage Oppress for a short time. The Inquisitors are certainly not light side. I could go on. I honestly get tired of the "Rule of Two" because as I said...there is no rule enforcer, so to heck with it. Sith also don't really follow rules.... Palpatine trained Maul when he was still the apprentice. ergo it's canon that Palpatine was actually the apprentice in TPM. which makes sense. Maul wasn't a Sith Lord, he was a WEAPON. You don't get a Darth title without being a Sith. Hence : Darth Maul. Maul was a Sith sir. You are really stretching the truth instead of comprehending the fact that alot of Sith didn't follow this made up rule. They don't have to. I would wager that when TFA comes out that rule will be long dead. Because, the reason the Sith died off is BECAUSE of the "Rule of Two". Edited August 5, 2015 by DarthVengeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 actually IIRC Lords of the Sith, or Tarkin, eistablishes Palpatine trained Maul when he was still the apprentice. ergo it's canon that Palpatine was actually the apprentice in TPM. which makes sense. Maul wasn't a Sith Lord, he was a WEAPON. Ugh, that plot point made it into the new Canon? Damn, that was one piece of the EU I was hoping they would have the sense to leave behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I think Sidious lived on technicalities, he had Maul when Maul was killed he got Dooku, during the clone wars Ventress was never considered a sith she was an assassin or dark jedi which did not break the rule of two. But other than that he would easily sacrifice Dooku as a part of his scheme to get Darth Vader (essentially swapping one apprentice for another). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I think Sidious lived on technicalities, he had Maul when Maul was killed he got Dooku, during the clone wars Ventress was never considered a sith she was an assassin or dark jedi which did not break the rule of two. But other than that he would easily sacrifice Dooku as a part of his scheme to get Darth Vader (essentially swapping one apprentice for another). If that was the full story then that's not living on technicalities, that's embracing the spirit of the Rule as well as the letter. The Master is supposed to be sure s/he acquires the most powerful Apprentice possible, and that means being willing to drop the current Apprentice at a moment's notice if a more promising prospect comes along. A Master grooming a potential replacement for his Apprentice (as Sidious was doing with Anakin) or an Apprentice grooming a potential future Apprentice of his/her own for when s/he becomes the Master (as Dooku was doing with Ventress) is a necessary part of the system. In particular, setting up the Tyranus vs Anakin fight (and later the Vader vs Luke fight) was Sidious doing his Rule of Two job as Master the right way - he was trying to ensure that only the best would be his Apprentice. It's only when you get into some of the stuff from the Darth Plagueis book - stuff that apparently might have made it into the new Canon via the Tarkin book - that you get into Sidious breaking the rule of two before the movies (and if you're in the full-blown Legends continuity he certainly saw himself as no longer needing the Rule of Two once he was Emperor). Edited August 5, 2015 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I meant the fact that during the clone wars there were 3 characters wielding a red coloured lightsaber(s) if you included ventress that breaks the rule of 2, so by not considering Ventress a sith but a dark jedi he was still able to have his happy medium of the rule of 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 I meant the fact that during the clone wars there were 3 characters wielding a red coloured lightsaber(s) if you included ventress that breaks the rule of 2, so by not considering Ventress a sith but a dark jedi he was still able to have his happy medium of the rule of 2. There is also Darth Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranYukon Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) But he did not respect it did you forgot that there is also a Darth Maul besides a Darth Vader at the same time? Darth Maul was not Sidious' apprentice when Vader was. Edited August 5, 2015 by TranYukon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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