Elusive_Thing Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Players want new challenging ops, not old ops with level rescaled. Yeah. A lot of raiders already know the tactics for most fights. If places like EV and KP start dropping top tier loot, I'll be prancing around in BiS PvE gear in around a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Yeah. A lot of raiders already know the tactics for most fights. If places like EV and KP start dropping top tier loot, I'll be prancing around in BiS PvE gear in around a week. I know what you mean, but I wouldn't completely count on that. When's the last time you did any of those lvl 50 bosses with actually paying attention to the mechanics? Not saying it'll take long until hardcore raiders, if there will be any left by then, will have cleared all the rescaled stuff, but I would wager that it isn't as much faceroll as many think it'll be. For example, we haven't done M&B and Cora in about 4 months really, cause we were focussed on killing revan. Did Rav last week and well... it took a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Thing Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) I know what you mean, but I wouldn't completely count on that. When's the last time you did any of those lvl 50 bosses with actually paying attention to the mechanics? Not saying it'll take long until hardcore raiders, if there will be any left by then, will have cleared all the rescaled stuff, but I would wager that it isn't as much faceroll as many think it'll be. For example, we haven't done M&B and Cora in about 4 months really, cause we were focussed on killing revan. Did Rav last week and well... it took a while That's actually a good point. Probably should take a level 50-ish toon and get a new look at the oldies a week before the expac. One of the hardest parts must be remembering that you can't just faceroll half a dozen Council people in EV by yourself. Edited August 13, 2015 by Elusive_Thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Pretty much this. When 2.0 hit, it was ok to raise tfb to 55. This way we had 5 ops, three old and two on max level. If they'd give us at least one new op with FE, there wouldn't be any rage about the rescaling of the old content I think. I have a question, why did the level 55 HM/NIM ops are still quite hard to pugs and some of the guilds? We got 5 levels higher, new skills and much higher tier gears. It shouldn't have been like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Thing Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I have a question, why did the level 55 HM/NIM ops are still quite hard to pugs and some of the guilds? We got 5 levels higher, new skills and much higher tier gears. It shouldn't have been like that. Because last stage of Brontes too stronk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izrin Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The system that exists now is fine. There are Ops for those players wanting a challenge, and there are lower level Ops for those players that just want to experience content and hang out with their friends. So what they aren't a crack Ops team. The net result of scaling all Ops will just be to eliminate content for +90% of the player base. A few vocal die-hards will be pleased, but most players don't stick around long enough in this game to develop the interest to form accomplished Ops groups and do challenging content. I been playing since the game came out ran with my own guild through the older ops and in 2.0 this Revan xpac is the only one that I am pugging through cause I past down my guild and I am still playing and didn't leave. I think u want everything handing to u like a little baby am sorry thats why they call it a game and "games" have challenges. I suggest do some research then attempt it see how your op group does it in other words pay attention and you'll have a great ole time, if not then the saying goes " quit while your ahead" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimsblood Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I know what you mean, but I wouldn't completely count on that. When's the last time you did any of those lvl 50 bosses with actually paying attention to the mechanics? Not saying it'll take long until hardcore raiders, if there will be any left by then, will have cleared all the rescaled stuff, but I would wager that it isn't as much faceroll as many think it'll be. For example, we haven't done M&B and Cora in about 4 months really, cause we were focussed on killing revan. Did Rav last week and well... it took a while .... apples and oranges man. EV and KP mechanics are childish. I do not mean that the OP is faceroll easy because of gear or experience. EAch fight in EV has about 3 "mechanics" to deal with. All of which have bee reused and become a standard for the other ops. 1st fight you move out of red circles and stack/hide. 2nd fight you stack and then move. 3rd fight you kill adds and press the same button until you win. 4th fight you only attack one add (spoiler alert, it is possible for one person to kill more than 1 add in the allotted time). 5th fight, Dps..run to side...jump down....repeat. Throw in an add or two you have to handle. Once you get to the end, it is a matter of the tank having to actually do something and position the boss. Also, a lot of you are forgetting that we have new abilities already and we will be getting newer ones. Has anyone ever considered how they will effect the old ops? Wandering Mend from the Sage gives an "AoEish heal" and gives elemental damage reduction.....a lot of damage in EV is elemental and group wide......HoT heals on the Sages Salvation too. Remember when we had to stack and wait at SoA? Now we don't. How about the raid buffs we have? The burn phase for the first boss? Pop raid buffs, phase = easier. Also, I assume we are getting ALL the old fights from EV to SnV bumped to 65 (I am not sure if they have said all or just certain ones), what about gear? Where are all the pieces going to come from? That is a lot of bosses...we may even have the option of skipping fights or entire instances. Because lets face it....EC still has mechanics that will destroy your face. Groups couldn't complete HM after that cap was raised to 55. Take away our level advantage and that becomes one of the hardest, if not the hardest, operation in the game. Does anyone remember 16 Man NiM Firebrand and Stormcaller BEFORE the nerf?....yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Yeah. A lot of raiders already know the tactics for most fights. If places like EV and KP start dropping top tier loot, I'll be prancing around in BiS PvE gear in around a week. For those of us that remember the mechanics for fights like Jarg and his bf whatever his name is, Firebrand/ Stormcaller, and Kephess this is 100% true but, I know more than a few huge ego 'raider' types that are going to get their feelings hurt when they discover that level 50 Ops can't be facerolled when scaled up. I've watched more than a couple people work their way through level 50 nims with full 8 man teams for the first time to start acting like they are big time nim raiders and stop taking advice from more experienced players. I'm not so sure they will be able to deal with such a huge reality check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I think they can't just rescale the level, HP and damage, quite a few mech needs to be changed or redesigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled-Phoenix Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'm happy they are scaling it, i dont get to do Ops a lot and i missed a few simply because they fall out of my level range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm happy they are scaling it, i dont get to do Ops a lot and i missed a few simply because they fall out of my level range. You can walk into any op, also there's 1 time story missions for all of them that group finder doesn't give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzluPasta Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 You can walk into any op, also there's 1 time story missions for all of them that group finder doesn't give you. Except Temple of Sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Greatest flaw of all.... If you don't group to begin with, this scaling isn't going to magically make people group! I did my first ever Raid 2 days ago. Eternity Vault and I was bored out of my mind. Granted I was over leveled but I was trying to get into it solo didn't realize you had to be in a group. Well a Group was there and their leader saw I had Ziost Gear and invited me to help them. Even if it was at my level I would have been board out of my mind! I'm okay with group content of maybe me and one other person. maybe of 2 other people for a group of 3 but that is pushing it. But yeah this group of raiders invited me to do the operations with them and it was no fun. And it wasn't their fault it wasn't fun. Group content isn't my cup of tea. I'd enjoy a Solo mode yes but I do not expect them to give us any. I digress the problem is going to be those who hate group content will not group, Rescaled or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Except Temple of Sacrifice. The one time story is SoR being Option 2 in Storyline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzluPasta Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The one time story is SoR being Option 2 in Storyline Or you can do the faster option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MokiDono Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 By the time it takes to set up a thread and write the starting post, you can read your classes tooltips, load up one of the gazillion class guides on the internet, and learn a bit more about the game, which would increase your efficiency in a raid environment tenfolds. Join a pve guild, put some minimal work in it(as much time as you would put into a fleet pug ops), and grow as a player. This is an MMO, which means you need group effort to enjoy the game at its full potencial. I will never understand this mentality. If you already chose to waste your time in a mmo, why don't you just waste it to get a little bit better at it, so a whole new level of content would open up for you. And don't give me the excuses that "i aint got time for that", because you can see people are struggling hours on SM Underlurker, banging their heads on the wall until it budges, instead of spending that time to up the quality of the gameplay, instead the quantity. Literally, the only things separates you from NiM/HM players is the time you could invest into research your class and the operations instead of spending it on a hopeless fleet pug run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinSpaghetti Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 1st fight you move out of red circles and stack/hide. If I recall this boss on HM/NiM was a super tight DPS race before people could get geared to rakata/campaign as well as a healing check. 2nd fight you stack and then move. Second fight if you didn't move out of the pounces you were dead before the end of the fight as there would be no way the healer could heal through everyone's unnecessary damage. Again the introduction of BH/campaign gear made this a cakewalk and the pounce mechanic got ignored entirely over time. 3rd fight you kill adds and press the same button until you win. Again over gearing meant you had more time and therefore take the longer but easiest route of pressing one button. Before that we had to resort to online calculators/puzzle solvers like this one in order to beat it: http://swtor.force-effect.net/Page/PylonPuzzle 4th fight you only attack one add (spoiler alert, it is possible for one person to kill more than 1 add in the allotted time). I'm sure with the buff to 65 you won't get people doing multiple adds on harder difficulties at least due to the buff in HP. 5th fight, Dps..run to side...jump down....repeat. Throw in an add or two you have to handle. Once you get to the end, it is a matter of the tank having to actually do something and position the boss. Don't forget killing all the power sources as you go down (as Soa will do a massive AoE blast that will wipe your raid at the bottom), killing mind traps, not exploding your lightning balls in the raid. Yes not the hardest fight in the world but if these things get buffed it definitely won't be the cakewalk we are used to. I could see a lot of people who have already done this fight to death struggling when it gets buffed and if they buff it right just because they are only used to over gearing or over leveling it. And the best thing is whether you have the achievement or not doesn't guarantee the player is capable enough for the raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichikai Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) nevermind. Edited August 25, 2015 by Ichikai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mithlandirr Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I personally am excited for this change. Gives you at least some alternatives than to endlessly grind the same ops repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzluPasta Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I personally am excited for this change. Gives you at least some alternatives than to endlessly grind the same ops repeatedly. Do you really think you will have the freedom of choice to do what operations you will do ? No you won't. Certain operations will drop higher gear, rendering the other ones obselete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Do you really think you will have the freedom of choice to do what operations you will do ? No you won't. Certain operations will drop higher gear, rendering the other ones obselete. I doubt it. I'm pretty sure they are going to spread the gear out over each Op. There's 14 Gear items, and 9 Operations, 7 of which have 3 Difficulties, and 2 with only 2. That works out to 1.56 gear pieces per op. So, each boss will offer the same piece with some exceptions. This would be in my mind how it would would work. You would need to do each operation to it's end to get a full set of Token Gear. If we had 7 Operations, it would be 2 pieces per each individual Op, with 5 of the bosses dropping the pieces (S&V needs to be scaled down to 5 Bosses instead of 7, Olok the Shadow and Thrasher could be cut out entirely and I wouldn't bat an eyelash) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzluPasta Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I doubt it. I'm pretty sure they are going to spread the gear out over each Op. There's 14 Gear items, and 9 Operations, 7 of which have 3 Difficulties, and 2 with only 2. That works out to 1.56 gear pieces per op. So, each boss will offer the same piece with some exceptions. This would be in my mind how it would would work. You would need to do each operation to it's end to get a full set of Token Gear. If we had 7 Operations, it would be 2 pieces per each individual Op, with 5 of the bosses dropping the pieces (S&V needs to be scaled down to 5 Bosses instead of 7, Olok the Shadow and Thrasher could be cut out entirely and I wouldn't bat an eyelash) LOL You expect them to remove bosses because it doesn't add up to the total number of loot pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinSpaghetti Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 LOL You expect them to remove bosses because it doesn't add up to the total number of loot pieces. A good idea would be to do a similar thing for the pre-SoR rehashed HM's that DF/DP SM had, drop SM gear (but an extra piece on each drop maybe) on the first few bosses and drop a random higher tier on the last two. That way it doesn't flood you with the top tier gear as soon as you hit any HM, but still provides an alternative path to highest tier gear to make the old ops worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) From my understanding: Three Elder tiers plus SM GF gear drops: SM: Tier 1 SM GF: Relevant to level HM: Tier 2 Highlighted HM of the Week in GF: Tier 3 NiM: Tier 3 Sauce: "We are also making several Quality of Life improvements to Operations in the Group Finder to make a better, more engaging experience. Each day, a new Story Mode Operation will be available in Group Finder, and will all drop relevant gear for your character. Nightmare Mode will also be available for all the Operations that had it previously, and will reward the same as the highlighted Hard Mode, as all the unique mounts and titles available currently. For Hard Mode Operations, one Operation per week will be highlighted to give even greater rewards! Ultimately, the goal is that you will have a reason to visit all of our Operations and will feel rewarded for doing so." From OP Blog Edited August 26, 2015 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
power-alex Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) There's 14 Gear items actually there are 12, as relics and implants are the same unassembled piece. So you should redo your math Edited August 27, 2015 by power-alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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