Derzelaz Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I don't understand why Juggs/Guardians have so many defensive abilities on all specs. In tank spec it makes sense, but not when you are a dps. Saber Ward and Enraged/Focused Defense are ok, every other tank class has them in t heir dps spec; but having also Saber Reflect (very powerful) and Endure Pain/Enure is too much. Maybe in a group these abilities are not that noticeable, but in 1v1 situations they are overpowerred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGITSJAD Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 . Maybe in a group these abilities are not that noticeable, but in 1v1 situations they are overpowerred. Not saying they are or are not overpowered, but, your last sentence sort of answers part of the question. This game is not balanced for 1v1 and never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I don't understand why Juggs/Guardians have so many defensive abilities on all specs. In tank spec it makes sense, but not when you are a dps. Saber Ward and Enraged/Focused Defense are ok, every other tank class has them in t heir dps spec; but having also Saber Reflect (very powerful) and Endure Pain/Enure is too much. Maybe in a group these abilities are not that noticeable, but in 1v1 situations they are overpowerred. They are in fact very noticeable in a group environment. In fact they are even more glaring then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallerine Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah, take away the defensive cooldowns and what exactly do you have? A simple melee class -no stealth -no bubble -no heal -no phase walk -like 2 ranged abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMcFarla Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah, take away the defensive cooldowns and what exactly do you have? A simple melee class -no stealth -no bubble -no heal -no phase walk -like 2 ranged abilities I'm still getting acclaimed to post 3.0 but don't jugs/guardians have a pretty amazing self heal or has that been adjusted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanas Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I don't understand why Juggs/Guardians have so many defensive abilities on all specs. In tank spec it makes sense, but not when you are a dps. Saber Ward and Enraged/Focused Defense are ok, every other tank class has them in t heir dps spec; but having also Saber Reflect (very powerful) and Endure Pain/Enure is too much. Maybe in a group these abilities are not that noticeable, but in 1v1 situations they are overpowerred. Because they need them. Check top rank and see how this class is close to non-existing. They in reality need more "stuff" to perform up to the 3 "master classes". I'm still getting acclaimed to post 3.0 but don't jugs/guardians have a pretty amazing self heal or has that been adjusted? He was referring in case you remove the defenses. Edited July 28, 2015 by Xanas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah, take away the defensive cooldowns and what exactly do you have? A simple melee class -no stealth -no bubble -no heal -no phase walk -like 2 ranged abilities Sounds like you described sent/mara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Same as operatives roll. Don't even want to hear it right now. Not while there are other classes performing a lot better and not because they are not complete cream puffs like some of the other classes to those 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'm still getting acclaimed to post 3.0 but don't jugs/guardians have a pretty amazing self heal or has that been adjusted? Yes, the person you quoted was saying that WITHOUT those powers (including the self-heal) the list they made is all you would have left. I think the point is that the DCDs of the Juggernaut/Guardian define and distinguish the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPepssi Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Sounds like you described sent/mara Lol no, marauders and sentinels are actually better than juggernauts in current meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah, take away the defensive cooldowns and what exactly do you have? A marauder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 A marauder. and marauders suck, there you have it. Juggs need their cooldowns. They arent even top 3 why would you even consider a nerf? lol Enraged defense is no different than a sage bubble if you think about it. You can even still be damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanas Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) A marauder. Considering the fact that marauders are doing better then juggs this would be false. Edited July 28, 2015 by Xanas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AchillesStark Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Dont forget awe with is an AOE cc. Its a great thing to pop when getting ganked. Without those dcds guardans would be slaughtered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 A marauder. Undying Rage, Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain, and Force Camouflage. Oh, the poor Marauders with no DCDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Considering the fact that marauders are doing better then juggs this would be false. Considering the fact that you're wrong, it would be correct. Marauders require healer support to even be somewhat effective, otherwise they are absolutely useless in pvp. Juggernauts do not and are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) Undying Rage, Saber Ward, Cloak of Pain, and Force Camouflage. Oh, the poor Marauders with no DCDs. I'll trade Undying Rage for Enraged Defense any day you're ready. Don't even get me started on CC immunity. Edited July 28, 2015 by Vember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'll trade Undying Rage for Enraged Defense any day you're ready. Don't even get me started on CC immunity. They serve different purposes. As I play solo a majority of the time, I too prefer ED. If I knew I'd have a healer, my opinion may change. Not to mention 24/7 Predation is awesome for my Jugg when there is a Mara on my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 -like 2 ranged abilities doesn't one of those ranged attacks root, and the other one is a closer that interrupts, roots, reduces dmg taken and grants full immunity? the frustrating thing is juggs were like this BEFORE 3.0. but since 3.0, all those CDs actually make them an average class, so calling for a nerf is meh. here's hoping for better quality of gaming in 4.0, but I won't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benets Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Pretty simple, cos' DEVs are retard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 doesn't one of those ranged attacks root, and the other one is a closer that interrupts, roots, reduces dmg taken and grants full immunity? the frustrating thing is juggs were like this BEFORE 3.0. but since 3.0, all those CDs actually make them an average class, so calling for a nerf is meh. here's hoping for better quality of gaming in 4.0, but I won't hold my breath. Saber Throw only has a root if you spec into a top tier Utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I don't understand why Juggs/Guardians have so many defensive abilities on all specs. In tank spec it makes sense, but not when you are a dps. Saber Ward and Enraged/Focused Defense are ok, every other tank class has them in t heir dps spec; but having also Saber Reflect (very powerful) and Endure Pain/Enure is too much. Maybe in a group these abilities are not that noticeable, but in 1v1 situations they are overpowerred. Juggs are #8 in solo and group rankings for season 5. They haven't won any dueling tournaments that I'm aware of (they can win duels but they aren't in the top 3 of dueling acs and almost any class has a chance against them assuming equal skill/gear - my combat sent rips juggs apart in duels). In regs decent juggs can top dps #s but so can mercs and snipers and pretty much any dps AC. And some dps specs have much higher potential dps. Without a good escape or signigicantly increased mobility, juggs pretty much need dcds: unlike most, they are meant to be in the front line and mixing it up with as many enemies as possible. Edited July 28, 2015 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Saber Throw only has a root if you spec into a top tier Utility. Yeah - it has it's uses but I usually frown when I see someone picked that over a cleanse on ED or a shorter CD on ED or enure's mobility buff. I guess if I knew I had a pocket healer or was in a premade and expecting no competition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah - it has it's uses but I usually frown when I see someone picked that over a cleanse on ED or a shorter CD on ED or enure's mobility buff. I guess if I knew I had a pocket healer or was in a premade and expecting no competition... I haven't used it personally, but the cleanse on ED doesn't seem very helpful as I don't want to use it as a pure cleanse and the ability is strong enough to get me through the time I'm CC'd regardless. I tried the EP movement immunity ability, but was very underwhelmed and suffers from the same problem of not wanting to use it purely for better movement. With the CD of Force Leap being lowered every time you're attacked, you can leap more than ever. Resetting interrupt on leap and 2 seconds added to SR looks like the best option along with reduced ED CD for Heroic Jugg utilites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Saber Throw only has a root if you spec into a top tier Utility. yes...and PT have KO breaker, heal cannon and super speed HO. except no. they have to make a choice. the tough one for me is fury mara, cuz I want about 4 or 5 of those heroic abils. anyway, the "obscene" dcds that juggs currently have is just par for the course. so...yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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