Are individual "loot bags" back?

[annabethchase]

From the recent ops/fp blog, I saw this listed in the hardmode flashpoint section:

 

"Just like the new Tactical Flashpoints, each player can get their own individual loot suited for their class from entirely new sets of gear."

 

I think this is going back to the system we had in story mode operations at launch where there was no need/greed/pass needed. You simply clicked on the boss and the system decided then if you got any gear or not.

 

I would be thrilled with this. No more losing out to ninjas!

[FerkWork]

From the recent ops/fp blog, I saw this listed in the hardmode flashpoint section:

 

"Just like the new Tactical Flashpoints, each player can get their own individual loot suited for their class from entirely new sets of gear."

 

I think this is going back to the system we had in story mode operations at launch where there was no need/greed/pass needed. You simply clicked on the boss and the system decided then if you got any gear or not.

 

I would be thrilled with this. No more losing out to ninjas!

 

Only for Fps thankfully as gearing runs for Alts would be a pain in the *** if no loot dropped.

[Icestar]

I remember those lootbags. I would guess that either that or some kind of mission reward with one item that works for the character.

[Asheris]

I think that would be a good system, it worked in another MMO I played and it will work here.

 

It's a gamble either way but here you would at least be able to get something without worries of ninja-looters or strange looting rules set by the leader. You kill it, loot it and either get just comms or a spec-specific gear.

[annabethchase]

Only for Fps thankfully as gearing runs for Alts would be a pain in the *** if no loot dropped.

 

I've never thought those types of runs should exist. To me, if you do the ops, you should benefit period. I don't like any version of dragon kill points, even one as soft as helping gear an alt. Because some people are more assertive than others and will benefit more from such an arrangement than others.

[Callaron]

To me it sounds more like what they have on Neverwinter. You get some individual loot that's guaranteed to be useful for your class. (And Neverwinter's added level scaling dungeons with their Mod 6 too)

[Icestar]

I don't like any version of dragon kill points, even one as soft as helping gear an alt.

 

I have not seen the use of DKP in this game actually, it is usually the master looter that might assign loot for a hardcore raider that needs item but it usually always ends up with a roll anyway.

 

I do not mind if they change the system so that all characters present in the ops benefit from it instead of gearing up alts, but with the legacy transfer system it will end up there anyway I guess.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Icestar

[FerkWork]

I've never thought those types of runs should exist. To me, if you do the ops, you should benefit period. I don't like any version of dragon kill points, even one as soft as helping gear an alt. Because some people are more assertive than others and will benefit more from such an arrangement than others.

 

My guild does gearing runs for Alts based on prioriry towards progression with each member getting 1 run until it's their turn again. You benefit in the long run. As for HM, it's priority towards those needing set bonus, then minmaxing, then other set. What I don't want to see is looting a boss and having nothing drop besides comms cause people in pug runs are unassertive enough to make loot rules. Imagine killing Revan HM and you only saw a fistful of comms drop.

Again, it's not an issue as set token pieces are remaining thankfully.

[Jerba]

As long as it only affects flashpoints, I'm fine with it. How loot is distributed should be up to the raid group and not be decided by the game. If they want to add a Personal Loot setting like in Wow, that's fine as long as it can be turned off.

 

For tactical flashpoints, I think it's a great idea. I'm not sure if you'd actually get the gear from the bosses or just a lockbox from the quest reward but in any case, it encourages players to queue for them at any level. Maybe not at level 65 anymore but at least we have the option to do it.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Jerba

[Asheris]

As long as it only affects flashpoints, I'm fine with it. How loot is distributed should be up to the raid group and not be decided by the game. If they want to add a Personal Loot setting like in Wow, that's fine as long as it can be turned off.

 

For tactical flashpoints, I think it's a great idea. I'm not sure if you'd actually get the gear from the bosses or just a lockbox from the quest reward but in any case, it encourages players to queue for them at any level. Maybe not at level 65 anymore but at least we have the option to do it.

 

Why? Because, oh heavens no, one would have to do an ops on a different character than his/her main? Or that you couldn't gear your companion?

 

It's a fair price to pay for lack of ninja looters and complainers in pugs. Sure, if they would add a toggle for full guild runs - sure, why not. But if that toggle would be the deciding factor of not implementing "loot bags" than no, I do not agree.

[Jerba]

Why? Because, oh heavens no, one would have to do an ops on a different character than his/her main? Or that you couldn't gear your companion?

 

It's a fair price to pay for lack of ninja looters and complainers in pugs. Sure, if they would add a toggle for full guild runs - sure, why not. But if that toggle would be the deciding factor of not implementing "loot bags" than no, I do not agree.

Not every raid group distributes the loot randomly. If we feel we lack DPS, we equip the DPS first; if we need more healing, the healers get it, and if the tanks die, the tanks get it. With master looter, you have full control over you gets what and can even trade it later on. With personal loot, every player would have a 12.5% chance to receive a loot piece but it's then bound to that player and can not be traded.

 

Yes, this setting would help in PuGs but there must be an option to turn it off.

[FerkWork]

Why? Because, oh heavens no, one would have to do an ops on a different character than his/her main? Or that you couldn't gear your companion?

 

It's a fair price to pay for lack of ninja looters and complainers in pugs. Sure, if they would add a toggle for full guild runs - sure, why not. But if that toggle would be the deciding factor of not implementing "loot bags" than no, I do not agree.

 

Why do guild runs have to suffer if people can't be firm about loot rules. In my whole time of running pug Ops, no one has broken my loot rules of 1 token per person. Never. And no one has ever complained. Also what if I don't want that piece and wanted to roll on chest instead. I just see selfishness that they got ninja looted ergo time to scorch earth this mug.

[DawnAskham]

Not every raid group distributes the loot randomly. If we feel we lack DPS, we equip the DPS first; if we need more healing, the healers get it, and if the tanks die, the tanks get it. With master looter, you have full control over you gets what and can even trade it later on. With personal loot, every player would have a 12.5% chance to receive a loot piece but it's then bound to that player and can not be traded.

 

Yes, this setting would help in PuGs but there must be an option to turn it off.

 

If I recall, the issue with personal loot in SM at launch was that it wasn't optional, and groups could get bad RNG and end a run with everyone 'winning' items they could not use.

 

IMO as long as the option exists to run Ops with a premade group using ML while maybe all random queuing players using GF get personal loot, I think it would be fine.

 

But I agree, if it is forced on everyone, it will be one more reason for me to dislike the changes and more than likely another bullet point in the 'why I'll play the story then quit till the last chapter is released' list.

Edited July 12, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Raansu]

From the recent ops/fp blog, I saw this listed in the hardmode flashpoint section:

 

"Just like the new Tactical Flashpoints, each player can get their own individual loot suited for their class from entirely new sets of gear."

 

I think this is going back to the system we had in story mode operations at launch where there was no need/greed/pass needed. You simply clicked on the boss and the system decided then if you got any gear or not.

 

I would be thrilled with this. No more losing out to ninjas!

 

I hope its not like that. I hated that design. We would run EV every week, and the first boss would drop the gloves. I think I got a glove almost every week, but the other sentinel still didn't have gloves and I couldn't give him mine. It was a terrible design. The token system is much more friendly for guilds. Now for group finder where the GF rewards you gear? Sure fine, whatever, but leave the current token system in place for guilds.

[FerkWork]

I hope its not like that. I hated that design. We would run EV every week, and the first boss would drop the gloves. I think I got a glove almost every week, but the other sentinel still didn't have gloves and I couldn't give him mine. It was a terrible design. The token system is much more friendly for guilds. Now for group finder where the GF rewards you gear? Sure fine, whatever, but leave the current token system in place for guilds.

 

A player I know who raided since launch a little while back was reminiscing on how his group could never get a Strength Lightsaber to drop (I think he said Soa but I didn't play then so feel free to correct me) and they ended up their companion getting one first due to so many extras particularly Skill Rifles

[Raansu]

A player I know who raided since launch a little while back was reminiscing on how his group could never get a Strength Lightsaber to drop (I think he said Soa but I didn't play then so feel free to correct me) and they ended up their companion getting one first due to so many extras particularly Skill Rifles

 

If I remember correctly it was SoA that dropped the lightsaber. I think Karraga dropped the guns. I cant remember, been a long time. Back then I ended up getting my pvp battlemaster sabers before I could get a pve saber drop lol. And back then the pvp gear was only slightly weaker than pve......Man I miss those days.

[annabethchase]

Imagine killing Revan HM and you only saw a fistful of comms drop.

Again, it's not an issue as set token pieces are remaining thankfully.

 

I feel like that essentially everytime. As a person who isn't able to be a permanent member of an progression team, I am always low priority to get meaningful drops. I don't have my equal 1 in 8 shot of getting something because i'm "just a fill in".

[FerkWork]

I feel like that essentially everytime. As a person who isn't able to be a permanent member of an progression team, I am always low priority to get meaningful drops. I don't have my equal 1 in 8 shot of getting something because i'm "just a fill in".

 

Off topic: That should be discussed between the people you run with. I understand if it's going towards permanent mains and they aren't full BiS yet is the reason for not getting it but in my experience filling in for teams that are BiS I have gotten a lot of stuff passed to me. If you are filling in constantly you should have a chance but speak with the raid leader about it.

 

On topic: I poorly phrased that statement. A better example, If everyone is BiS min maxed and have the chest piece from Coratanni, save you and it doesn't drop loot for you but since it's bound then it can't be traded if another person got it. It's what happens on Monolith unless you class stack and do some creative stucking by the tanks. You could go weeks without seeing anything for your class whilw another class keeps getting theirs to drop. It's 1/8 chance but only each time.

 

For FP it makes sense since loot is already for a class most people I know greed the Mk-2 unless it's there class. But token wise it's in your best interest to have always a chance for loot.

[Zharik]

I feel like that essentially everytime. As a person who isn't able to be a permanent member of an progression team, I am always low priority to get meaningful drops. I don't have my equal 1 in 8 shot of getting something because i'm "just a fill in".

 

That sounds a lot like a problem with the 7 people you raid with more than a problem with the system.

 

Any regular team that doesn't treat a substitute player as a full member for that particular raid will soon have trouble finding subs. Then they'll not get to raid at all when one 'regular' member has a real life issue preventing them from playing that week. Now don't get me wrong, if the group leader at the beginning of the raid says, "Freddy gets the gloves and Billy gets the offhand, but everything else is free roll with a 1 token limit per toon.", then you have the rules set out before you and calling dibs for specific people for 2 items is not unreasonable. Either way you get to choose to play with them or not.

 

But making a system where the successful boss kills randomly reward people will make the gear grind go from 8 (or 16 if implants/relics are 1 a week) weeks to who-the-hell-knows-how-long. We have killed Monolith about a half dozen times a week since week 3 of it being out in my Guild on various teams and have gotten all of TWO strength based main-hand drops... Most players have at least 1 if not 2 cunning main-hands because of RNG. It has gotten so bad that we are constantly making jokes about who still has a cunning alt to gear out with a MH today... Let's avoid this crap for the future, shall we please?

 

By the way, I hope your experience with raid teams improves in the future.

[DawnAskham]

That sounds a lot like a problem with the 7 people you raid with more than a problem with the system.

 

Any regular team that doesn't treat a substitute player as a full member for that particular raid will soon have trouble finding subs. Then they'll not get to raid at all when one 'regular' member has a real life issue preventing them from playing that week. Now don't get me wrong, if the group leader at the beginning of the raid says, "Freddy gets the gloves and Billy gets the offhand, but everything else is free roll with a 1 token limit per toon.", then you have the rules set out before you and calling dibs for specific people for 2 items is not unreasonable. Either way you get to choose to play with them or not.

 

But making a system where the successful boss kills randomly reward people will make the gear grind go from 8 (or 16 if implants/relics are 1 a week) weeks to who-the-hell-knows-how-long. We have killed Monolith about a half dozen times a week since week 3 of it being out in my Guild on various teams and have gotten all of TWO strength based main-hand drops... Most players have at least 1 if not 2 cunning main-hands because of RNG. It has gotten so bad that we are constantly making jokes about who still has a cunning alt to gear out with a MH today... Let's avoid this crap for the future, shall we please?

 

By the way, I hope your experience with raid teams improves in the future.

 

I would not put it past them to add personal loot and make it mandatory as a way to constrain the pace of gearing given every existing Op is set to be scaled to 65, with all dropping new gear.

 

Also the GF SM daily will be available to levels 50-65, which would further support the conclusion personal loot will be a requirement, and not and option, as players sub 65 would otherwise receive gear they could not use.

 

What doesn't seem clear is whether existing loot options will be retained as options for premade groups who do not use GF and / or for HM / NiM Ops.

 

At this point, I'd bet even money that personal loot will be the only option, as otherwise an organized group could run every Op using ML for a week or two and fully outfit all their characters.

 

Even if the old loot options remain, I do foresee them nerfing the drop rates, putting in some sort of limits, and / or bringing back stat specific items instead of tokens to prevent groups from farming close to a dozen Ops zones week one for full sets of gear.

Edited July 12, 2015 by DawnAskham

[FerkWork]

That sounds a lot like a problem with the 7 people you raid with more than a problem with the system.

 

Any regular team that doesn't treat a substitute player as a full member for that particular raid will soon have trouble finding subs. Then they'll not get to raid at all when one 'regular' member has a real life issue preventing them from playing that week. Now don't get me wrong, if the group leader at the beginning of the raid says, "Freddy gets the gloves and Billy gets the offhand, but everything else is free roll with a 1 token limit per toon.", then you have the rules set out before you and calling dibs for specific people for 2 items is not unreasonable. Either way you get to choose to play with them or not.

 

But making a system where the successful boss kills randomly reward people will make the gear grind go from 8 (or 16 if implants/relics are 1 a week) weeks to who-the-hell-knows-how-long. We have killed Monolith about a half dozen times a week since week 3 of it being out in my Guild on various teams and have gotten all of TWO strength based main-hand drops... Most players have at least 1 if not 2 cunning main-hands because of RNG. It has gotten so bad that we are constantly making jokes about who still has a cunning alt to gear out with a MH today... Let's avoid this crap for the future, shall we please?

 

By the way, I hope your experience with raid teams improves in the future.

 

Side note: For Mono stack the class you want to to drop. Once he's down to 3% and a rift has just been broken, have the tanks stuck it, zone out and kill it. Or have them run out the door.

[annabethchase]

As a result of this discussion, it sounds like it's a consensus that yes, loot bags are back. In fact it even sounds like they might be needed for Ops, since otherwise you could gear up ridiculously fast with 9 on-level ops available every week. Or for ops, there might be a new unknown gear gating system to keep gearing up taking more than a week.

[FerkWork]

As a result of this discussion, it sounds like it's a consensus that yes, loot bags are back. In fact it even sounds like they might be needed for Ops, since otherwise you could gear up ridiculously fast with 9 on-level ops available every week. Or for ops, there might be a new unknown gear gating system to keep gearing up taking more than a week.

 

As for consensus, no we are only speculating.

 

Ops don't need it. Any sort of system like that is going to cause people to class stack (none of the old Ops in SM or HM required class stacking like Revan pre-Nerf did) and stuck it like we are doing on Monolith I get people the loot they need. Plus even worse it encourages indirectly multi lockouts for faster gearing.Nothing can prevent gearing up fast unless they release new content that we don't know the mechanics for. And in any case I don't really mind gearing fast as gear grind doesn't make me keep playing.

Edited July 12, 2015 by FerkWork

[LordCorrino]

Well, if it were up to me each boss would be worth 1 token. 5 tokens to get a piece of set gear. 10 tokens max per week. That's 7 weeks to gear a toon. If the devs can get the average player to do that much raiding it is a win. The more hardcore can then switch to hard mode or run alts. They could even have rare mounts, decors, etc. once people gear toons. The non-set gear can be RNGesus.

[ludoviccb]

Well, if it were up to me each boss would be worth 1 token. 5 tokens to get a piece of set gear. 10 tokens max per week. That's 7 weeks to gear a toon. If the devs can get the average player to do that much raiding it is a win. The more hardcore can then switch to hard mode or run alts. They could even have rare mounts, decors, etc. once people gear toons. The non-set gear can be RNGesus.

 

It's already in the game and it's called commendations. You can get 2 Elite and 1 Ultimate piece a week. If those gear set weren't so bad that 186 crafted enhancements are better than the utilmate ones it would work. What your saying is that people should just farm those new commendations and be able to get the best gear for it.