mmmbuddah Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 nah, bioware when it comes to nerf do not know the mid ways, op or nerfed to the ground, choose Sadly this has proven to be the way of things since launch. we can only hope they break free of their knee jerk reactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Upper middle in my opinion. There are obviously WAY more glaring issues with certain other classes that need to be addressed first, but once they are, the 23 % invincibility up time needs addressing. Mind you we do not NEED the traditional BW knee jerk reaction, they need baby nerfs, and baby buffs to other abilities. That is like what I said a long time ago. I'll make no bones about the reason I want roll to stay is it feels like one of very few options aside from rolling one of the big 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 That roll is pretty OP. They time it correctly and they can avoid a ton of damage, plus they can cleanse everything (not sure about time, but it is greater than other classes), they can stealth out... They could increase the roll CD to be on par with force run. Their cleanse could also be on CD par or close to the "oh ****" buttons on other classes. A scoundrel/operative should not be able to cleanse themselves more than once-twice when other classes (minus sins/shadows who also should be nerfed) can only do it once and without stealthing out, avoiding damage. Another good compromise would be that when someone places a Dot or attacks a rolling op/scoundrel is that it still takes damage but is reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) That roll is pretty OP. They time it correctly and they can avoid a ton of damage, plus they can cleanse everything (not sure about time, but it is greater than other classes), they can stealth out... They could increase the roll CD to be on par with force run. Their cleanse could also be on CD par or close to the "oh ****" buttons on other classes. A scoundrel/operative should not be able to cleanse themselves more than once-twice when other classes (minus sins/shadows who also should be nerfed) can only do it once and without stealthing out, avoiding damage. Another good compromise would be that when someone places a Dot or attacks a rolling op/scoundrel is that it still takes damage but is reduced. The only classes that have actual purges for dots are sages/sorcs, ops/scoundrels, and sins/shadows. Sin's is on a 60s CD, not sure about force barrier's CD, and op's is also on a 60s CD unless they take evasive imperative, where it will be on a ~25s CD assuming they're constantly being attacked. Roll doesn't purge/cleanse anything on its own. Also.. simple solution: don't attack while an op is rolling. Fake casting and such to lure out his rolls is a good tactic, because without them, an op is super squishy. As for the change, IF they change it, it either needs to be: 100% damage reduction for 1.5 seconds upon activating exfiltrate, but CC/snare/root immunity or Something close to 60-70% or maybe a bit higher damage reduction for 1.5s, and immunity to CC/snares/roots. Anything less will pretty much destroy the spec's survivability. Edited July 20, 2015 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 The only classes that have actual purges for dots are sages/sorcs, ops/scoundrels, and sins/shadows. Sin's is on a 60s CD, not sure about force barrier's CD, and op's is also on a 60s CD unless they take evasive imperative, where it will be on a ~25s CD assuming they're constantly being attacked. Roll doesn't purge/cleanse anything on its own. Force barrier is a 150 sec CD IRC, its over 2 min I know that. THe problem with roll is that it negates all damage and if you try to dot them when rolling it doesn't apply. It will be nerfed soon no doubt, and a fair nerf would be that it takes reduce number during rolling and/or it puts their CD's on par with other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhOsTPrOz Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Simplest fix I see is to make rolling put the ball back to neutral. I agree it is OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Their response: we cant do anything while rolling. Some of the lamest excuses, op would be even more broken if they could perform actions during immunity time... They simply need something else for defensives and leave roll as pure mobilty skill And no, GbtF/Undying is not 100% immunity, it's vulnerable to cc and with 2,22%/4% uptime, it has the shortest possible uptime of all 8 AC's immune times. People will complain about roll whether they do what you suggest or not. In fact if they did it your way it would be worse. IT would have the defensives elsewhere and have the roll for mobility round huttball etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Force barrier is a 150 sec CD IRC, its over 2 min I know that. THe problem with roll is that it negates all damage and if you try to dot them when rolling it doesn't apply. It will be nerfed soon no doubt, and a fair nerf would be that it takes reduce number during rolling and/or it puts their CD's on par with other classes. Even if it gets nerfed, people will still complain about ops, lol. If Exfiltrate was removed from the game completely, people would still make "nerf operatives!" threads. I'd rather not increase the cooldown of the ability, if anything, with that they should make it to where it rewards you for holding onto your second roll charge, to where when you roll once, the ability goes on cooldown for 10-15s but you still have an extra charge that won't effect the CD. Currently, you're suggested to roll twice quickly to keep the CD short. I could give up the immunity, but only if we get something else that's just as powerful (but maybe not so annoying to others) in return. Edited July 20, 2015 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Simplest fix I see is to make rolling put the ball back to neutral. I agree it is OP. I think that is a bit over the top, that would mean that every classes gap closer (force run, leap, merc thing) would need to reset the ball. THe score would stay zero or there would be a ton of interceptions from all the passing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Sadly this has proven to be the way of things since launch. we can only hope they break free of their knee jerk reactions. Knee jerk reactions might be because of the consistent moaning which occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Even if it gets nerfed, people will still complain about ops, lol. If Exfiltrate was removed from the game completely, people would still make "nerf operatives!" threads. I'd rather not let them touch the cooldown of the ability, if anything, with that they should make it to where it rewards you for holding onto your second roll charge, to where when you roll once, the ability goes on cooldown for 10-15s but you still have an extra charge that won't effect the CD. Currently, you're suggested to roll twice quickly to keep the CD short. I could give up the immunity, but only if we get something else that's just as powerful (but maybe not so annoying to others) in return. I think the best nerf would be an increase in cooldown and a reduced damage output during rolling. That would allow the operative to still time their rolls like they have been doing, but if they choose to do it they need to be prepared for a CD on par with the other classes' gap closers. Lastly, the "oh ****" cleanse button needs a longer CD along with Shadow shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Knee jerk reactions might be because of the consistent moaning which occurs. Yep, let's not forget all the spontaneous QQ from bads the week of patch 2.6 or whatever it was when Concealment got a minor QoL buff and a slight damage increase, just cause everyone was trying out their ops again.. and then a nerf announcement 8 days later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yep, let's not forget all the spontaneous QQ from bads the week of patch 2.6 or whatever it was when Concealment got a minor QoL buff and a slight damage increase, just cause everyone was trying out their ops again.. and then a nerf announcement 8 days later. Exactly its all people ever do. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiveringPotato Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) I think the best nerf would be an increase in cooldown and a reduced damage output during rolling. That would allow the operative to still time their rolls like they have been doing, but if they choose to do it they need to be prepared for a CD on par with the other classes' gap closers. Lastly, the "oh ****" cleanse button needs a longer CD along with Shadow shroud. The thing is, though, Exfiltrate is not only a gap closer. It's a gap opener, a kiting tool, a defensive cooldown, a peeling tool, a mobility enhancement, etc. The current cooldown is fine, and let's not forget that operatives don't have any physics (knockbacks, pulls etc) like the other classes that also have gap closers. I disagree with the purge CD increase, it's fine where it is, it's always been at its current duration. Edited July 20, 2015 by QuiveringPotato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Knee jerk reactions might be because of the consistent moaning which occurs. If you cannot differentiate between complaining and constructive criticism, then no one can help you. Complaining - The roll is absolutely stupid, I hate it, I hate it , I hate it, I don't care what they do, it needs to be gotten rid of! Constructive criticism - A simple solution would be to increase the cool down to 20 seconds if they roll twice in order to reduce the uptime of being invincible, which right now, is too high. I would hope a company such as BW would be able to tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaryk Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I think that is a bit over the top, that would mean that every classes gap closer (force run, leap, merc thing) would need to reset the ball. THe score would stay zero or there would be a ton of interceptions from all the passing Lets not forget pulls (I'm blanking on ability names) that perform the same function of advancing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona_Var Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Lets not forget pulls (I'm blanking on ability names) that perform the same function of advancing the ball.I'm fine with the pulls and the gap closers(although I think pt dps should leap to you, not pull you to them,think that should be tanks only). The only really issue I have with roll which alot of people have an issue with is their ability to roll right through fire and acid traps on huttball. No other class can pass through them without dying so why can ops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think the best nerf would be an increase in cooldown and a reduced damage output during rolling. That would allow the operative to still time their rolls like they have been doing, but if they choose to do it they need to be prepared for a CD on par with the other classes' gap closers. Lastly, the "oh ****" cleanse button needs a longer CD along with Shadow shroud. WUT?????????? WUT????????????? Roll is ON THE GCD!!!! ON THE GCD!!!!! You can't do any damage while rolling. Absolutely none. Except DoT's damage which is both pitifully weak and should never be affected simply due to it being damage over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pherdnut Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I can't remember the last time I had a problem with ops crossing the goal line unimpeded. Seriously? You haven't noticed any other problems that warranted more attention? Not one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrilian Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 WUT?????????? WUT????????????? Roll is ON THE GCD!!!! ON THE GCD!!!!! You can't do any damage while rolling. Absolutely none. Except DoT's damage which is both pitifully weak and should never be affected simply due to it being damage over time. And HOTS on yourself, being immune while waiting for cooldowns. It's like the undying rage every few seconds with bugged animation. For a class with range and PT-power kind of burst+offheals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Thing Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm fine with the pulls and the gap closers(although I think pt dps should leap to you, not pull you to them,think that should be tanks only). The only really issue I have with roll which alot of people have an issue with is their ability to roll right through fire and acid traps on huttball. No other class can pass through them without dying so why can ops? The PT leap is tank only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 The PT leap is tank only... He said it SHOULD be available for dps, too and make the pull tank-only. Read the post first, dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 And HOTS on yourself, being immune while waiting for cooldowns. It's like the undying rage every few seconds with bugged animation. For a class with range and PT-power kind of burst+offheals. So it has advantages of multiple classes instead of just one=perfectly balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrilian Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 So it has advantages of multiple classes instead of just one=perfectly balanced if it wen't for the animations - I'd be playin' it right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) And HOTS on yourself, being immune while waiting for cooldowns. It's like the undying rage every few seconds with bugged animation. For a class with range and PT-power kind of burst+offheals. The spec with any effective range does not have the damage immunity while rolling and it is also the more effective off healing one. Edited July 21, 2015 by Technohic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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