What are the other Stealth openers, besides Maul?

[Shanerion]

What are the other stealth openers?

 

I must be blind, because I have been searching high and low looking through ability lists, and all I can find is Maul. At what level do you get Ambush/Kidney Shot/Garrote kinds of openers, not just backstab?

 

TY

[Daellia]

Spike comes later down the line, that's a 2-second knockdown from stealth.

[Shanerion]

So Maul and Spike are literally the only 2 stealth openers? I really hope that's not true... I'm not really sure what the point of stealth is, or what the point of an Assassin is over going Sorc, if you don't get good stealth openers...

 

I really hope to find out that I am wrong, otherwise it's Reroll?

[Daellia]

The point of stealth is getting to the target without being detected and positioning yourself for the start of combat. It allows you to get through areas without a fight that others would have to slaughter their way through (at a much slower pace). It also triggers Dark Embrace.

 

Also, to be technical, Spike is really the only true stealth opener. Maul is more akin to Backstab than Ambush, it's usable in and out of stealth. Spike can be talented in Darkness to be useable out of stealth as well.

[Shanerion]

The point of stealth is getting to the target without being detected and positioning yourself for the start of combat. It allows you to get through areas without a fight that others would have to slaughter their way through (at a much slower pace). It also triggers Dark Embrace.

 

Also, to be technical, Spike is really the only true stealth opener. Maul is more akin to Backstab than Ambush, it's usable in and out of stealth. Spike can be talented in Darkness to be useable out of stealth as well.

 

Do you see my quandry or am I just whining? Is it odd to anyone else that this entire class, a stealth based advanced class, has one dedicated out of stealth Opener? Stealth is nice and all, but I can't imagine that it's worth it to forgo being a Sorc just to get Stealth, if all the Stealth does is make you invisible.

 

Stealth in and of itself is pretty marginal as a class defining mechanic. Imagine Rogues, even if they still had stealth, if they have no openers, they really wouldn't be scary. You pop out of stealth and it's like, ooo hear I am! I'm attacking you! You really could have just walked up to them and started attacking them, and it's not different than doing it from stealth. The only difference is surprise.

 

It still has some basic PvP value for that... but what in God's name is the PvE value? I must be overlooking something. Cause to me, wasting a specialization on Assassin for a mostly PvE player sounds ridiculous, if Stealth doesn't do anything in PvE?

[Daellia]

Stealth is nice and all, but I can't imagine that it's worth it to forgo being a Sorc just to get Stealth, if all the Stealth does is make you invisible.

 

To be honest, given the nature of the advanced class system, this is akin to saying "I can't imagine that it's worth it to forgo being a Mage just to get Stealth [...]". Completely different playstyles. Stealth is a core mechanic, but it's not the only one. Given how binary battles with rogues are in WoW, I'm rather glad that they are de-emphasizing the stealth mechanic and emphasizing the out-of-stealth melee mechanics, especially given that you spend the vast majority of the fight out of stealth. If you're class is based predominantly around stealth, that gives you an amazing opener and middling ability the rest of the fight.

[Morticoccus]

I play Operative as my main and I love my Assassin alt (even though I have to admit I misclicked at the spec screen and nearly cried because I didn't want to have to re-level a new character.)

 

 

However, after actually trying Assassin I found it to my liking (What is better than wielding a saber staff? Wielding a saber staff with FRIKKEN FORCE LIGHTNING on it =p )

 

The way I see it, the playstyle of an operative is pretty much to get in position, open with backstab (later hidden strike or whatever it's called) and then try to get in as many shivs and backstabs as possible to build tactical advantage and then either spray every enemy in the area with carbine burst or go slashy slashy with eviscerate...

 

It does get rather repetitive in either case, which this class solves brilliantly by offering superior burst damage OR lesser, sustained damage, if you don't waste all your force in one go.

 

I might even make my assassin my main.

 

And let's not forgive Khem, he goes with this class perfectly as his taunts leave the enemy open to as many mauls as you can get in the second he activates it.

[darkonnis]

Spike is not an opener, it is useable out of stealth, due to its short duration i cannot see why you would want to open with it as the GCD pretty much stops you casting anything you couldnt already cast from stealth. It is best used as another interrupt.

As darkness spec i open with shock to build charges. Maul would be best for a deception spec. Its a shame the class hasn't got more emphasis on stealth (like the entire deception tree should be tbh) but it would risk making us like operative which... wouldn't be as good i dont think.

[Ashnazg]

So Maul and Spike are literally the only 2 stealth openers? I really hope that's not true... I'm not really sure what the point of stealth is, or what the point of an Assassin is over going Sorc, if you don't get good stealth openers...

 

I really hope to find out that I am wrong, otherwise it's Reroll?

 

Because assassin is not a rogue class. It is a melee spellcaster hybrid. Stealth is there to provide you a gap closer and a get away tool.

 

If you want a rogue experience, Operative is that way --- >

[-Castiel-]

Having stealth lets me pick and choose my fights, it lets me expertly defend capture points and attack them too, it lets me Mind Trap opponents helping to even the odds in fights versus multiple enemies and most importantly it lets me disengage if I'm about to die. Seems good enough really.

[Thankyjack]

Do you see my quandry or am I just whining? Is it odd to anyone else that this entire class, a stealth based advanced class, has one dedicated out of stealth Opener? Stealth is nice and all, but I can't imagine that it's worth it to forgo being a Sorc just to get Stealth, if all the Stealth does is make you invisible.

 

Stealth in and of itself is pretty marginal as a class defining mechanic. Imagine Rogues, even if they still had stealth, if they have no openers, they really wouldn't be scary. You pop out of stealth and it's like, ooo hear I am! I'm attacking you! You really could have just walked up to them and started attacking them, and it's not different than doing it from stealth. The only difference is surprise.

 

It still has some basic PvP value for that... but what in God's name is the PvE value? I must be overlooking something. Cause to me, wasting a specialization on Assassin for a mostly PvE player sounds ridiculous, if Stealth doesn't do anything in PvE?

 

The "rogues" of SWTOR are IA/Smugglers. Assassins and Shadows have stealth, but that just let's them start the fight on their terms and avoid trash.

[ZtruK]

In PvP stealth is obviously amazing. In PvE it gives force regen at the start of every fight as well as CC if you need it in addition to all the positioning stuff.

 

For those that can't spike out of stealth, though I haven't tested it I hear that spike cannot be broken out of with CC break so it has it's uses.

[Anelyn]

Spike is not an opener, it is useable out of stealth, due to its short duration i cannot see why you would want to open with it as the GCD pretty much stops you casting anything you couldnt already cast from stealth. It is best used as another interrupt.

As darkness spec i open with shock to build charges. Maul would be best for a deception spec. Its a shame the class hasn't got more emphasis on stealth (like the entire deception tree should be tbh) but it would risk making us like operative which... wouldn't be as good i dont think.

 

Am sorry but Spike is only usable from stealth? Makes no sense to have a 2s knockdown usable at any time with no positional requirement and no CD?

[Anelyn]

In PvP stealth is obviously amazing. In PvE it gives force regen at the start of every fight as well as CC if you need it in addition to all the positioning stuff.

 

For those that can't spike out of stealth, though I haven't tested it I hear that spike cannot be broken out of with CC break so it has it's uses.

 

Stealth is awesome. Fast and safe way to quest objectives, most hero 4 / hero 2 soloable without problems.

 

IE: you have to kill some champs with adds in a hero 4. Turn off your aoe abilities on companion, CC 1 target, nuke 1 or 2 down fast, vanish. Now you have 1-2 targets left. Regen, re-CC 1 target and kill other one, vanish again and there ya go. Not as fast as with a group, but on new servers where most pop is into 20's and you're 30+ or higher is very viable.

 

PS: if you need to kill a hard champ (not world bosses -_-), go dark charge, and exchange taunts with your pet to last longer and chew boss health down, once he's into 30% range, switch to your DPS stance (lightning for madness and surging for deception) and burst it down with assassinate etc.

[ZtruK]

Stealth is awesome. Fast and safe way to quest objectives, most hero 4 / hero 2 soloable without problems.

 

IE: you have to kill some champs with adds in a hero 4. Turn off your aoe abilities on companion, CC 1 target, nuke 1 or 2 down fast, vanish. Now you have 1-2 targets left. Regen, re-CC 1 target and kill other one, vanish again and there ya go. Not as fast as with a group, but on new servers where most pop is into 20's and you're 30+ or higher is very viable.

 

PS: if you need to kill a hard champ (not world bosses -_-), go dark charge, and exchange taunts with your pet to last longer and chew boss health down, once he's into 30% range, switch to your DPS stance (lightning for madness and surging for deception) and burst it down with assassinate etc.

 

Yea, even with Surging you can still swap agro with your companion fairly decently just by using Mind control and the AoE mind control (doesn't break CC).

[BobaTed]

Do you see my quandry or am I just whining? Is it odd to anyone else that this entire class, a stealth based advanced class, has one dedicated out of stealth Opener?

Given that stealth openers tend to break stealth, how many openers do you actually need?

 

Like the others said, stealth is best used for positioning and tactics - scouting corners, picking your fights and prepping the field before combat. You know, strategy stuff that has more to do with player awareness than hotbar skills. IMO, that's all stealth should ever have been, in any MMO or RPG.

[EDGEY-TB]

Ambush/Kidney Shot/Garrote

 

This is not warcraft. You are not a rogue.

[Anelyn]

Yea, even with Surging you can still swap agro with your companion fairly decently just by using Mind control and the AoE mind control (doesn't break CC).

 

Yes, but you will want Dark surge up to also be able to discharge taunt the boss as well with, and the extra armor (since most hits will be melee / normal attacks, as you will interrupt the majority of casts / channels) and you don't want the boss to get you too low on health during your taunt either - imho. I prefer to have at least 75% hp left when KV dies and boss is on last percents of life to not risk getting myself knocked back or stunned and die on the spot :> Since during your tanking you won't use maul at all, is easy to save up on force to switch charges.

[Fredbob]

Am sorry but Spike is only usable from stealth? Makes no sense to have a 2s knockdown usable at any time with no positional requirement and no CD?

 

Darkness get a talent that gives 20% additional armour and allows spike to be used out of stealth, and it does have a cooldown, 30 seconds.

[Vaestmannaeyjar]

Maul isn't even a "stealth" opener, it just makes sense to start with it.

As for spike, it's nice for PvP but I do not use it in PvE.

[Elysion]

opening with maul just wastes 25 energy

 

and if you aren't deception i would just take it off your hotbar, its not worth 50 energy

[mutilatedcorpse]

What are the other stealth openers?

 

I must be blind, because I have been searching high and low looking through ability lists, and all I can find is Maul. At what level do you get Ambush/Kidney Shot/Garrote kinds of openers, not just backstab?

 

TY

 

What spec are you? That makes a difference as madness I'm not going to be opening up on a target with maul or anything I pop recklessness and cast crushing darkness because its a 2 second cast and I would rather not be visible while I'm casting. But if your deception then you should have no problem opening with maul considering it takes a pretty large chunk of damage. I've never played darkness so I wouldn't know about that but you can't compare assassins to rogues... We may have stealth and back stab but other then that we are completely different. Assassins don't go stealth in combat every 2 seconds then stun lock stun lock stun lock. If you want a sap type ability you have whirlwind or mind trap. Also an electrocute which is 4 second stun then channel the force to finish the cool to get 8 seconds out of it. You just have to think when you play your class explore your options. Or just go play wow and be a rogue who know, or like you said reroll doesn't sound like a sin is fitting your play style.

[mutilatedcorpse]

this is also a reference from the assassins codex as to similarities to the playstyle of TOR's Assassin and WoW... blehk

 

The Darkness tree resembles Paladin or Bear tanking, loosely. Deception is somewhat similar to a Mutilate Rogue. Madness is a cross between an Affliction Warlock and an Enhancement Shaman. None of them are identical, but these should help to give you an idea of whether or not you'll like the playstyles.