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Warzone Adrenal/Medpac Merge

Warlord_Maliken

By Warlord_Maliken
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Warlord_Maliken

Warlord_Maliken

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[Warzone Medpac] + [Warzone Adrenal] = [Warzone Adrenal]

[Tooltip] Instantly grants +30% health and reduces damage taken by 15% for 15 seconds.

 

Simply merge these two things in to 1 item/button. Simplicity done right is god like.

After merging these 2, there is room to mathematically adjust the tooltip of the new [Warzone Adrenal] if need be. For instance:

Proposal#1 Grants -15% damage taken and 30% health over 15 seconds.

Proposal#2 Grants -25% damage taken and 30% health over 10 seconds.

Proposal#3 Grants -30% damage taken and 30% health over 7 seconds.

Or you can leave as is, keeping the heal insta.

 

This change should not affect the cartel market revenue from the adrenal/medpac packs, & those very packs would now grant the updated [Warzone Adrenal] rather than the old combo.

I would love to see this colossal change for the next expansion.

The commendation cost would get adjusted accordingly as well.

 

:rak_09::rak_03::tran_angel::i_wink:

:sy_darkside::sy_darkside::sy_darkside::sy_lightside:

Edited by Warlord_Maliken
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emeraldon

emeraldon

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"I would like to see the +30% health be a heal over time rather than instantaneous; hints the tooltip"

 

Why? It would make it completely useless. If they were to merge it, make it simple: 15% reduction, and 30% heal. Done. it doesn't even need that, though. The adrenals aren't broken, don't fix them.

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Warlord_Maliken

Warlord_Maliken

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"I would like to see the +30% health be a heal over time rather than instantaneous; hints the tooltip"

 

Why? It would make it completely useless. If they were to merge it, make it simple: 15% reduction, and 30% heal. Done. it doesn't even need that, though. The adrenals aren't broken, don't fix them.

 

Yep, makes sense to me. It can be kept as instantaneous; no problem there. It was just a 'proposal' to make it a heal over time instead. More importantly, when you say "the adrenals aren't broken, don't "fix" them?"

What??? That is an abominable statement in regard to imagination, vision, and improvement. Its simpleton talk. The current setup for the adrenal/medpac is simply not in its best stature. It can be improved, and that improvement is substantial when combined with other improvements that share its philosophy route of 'simplicity done right is god like'. Its the road to improvement.... it is actually quite a HUGE and wonderful change to merge these 2. Saying " *shrugs, they arent broke dont fix them'" makes me cringe. By the way, thanks for at least responding rather than "naw, change = scary".

 

btw, Juggs have the most of advantages from instant heal.

....... I'm not looking at this change from a bias perspective. I'm looking at it under the scope of gameplay purity with the philosophy route of simplicity done right is god like. There are too many buttons in this game and many of the advanced classes have a clunky gameplay experience. Doing this warzone adrenal merge is a step in the right direction, whether the heal stay instant or change to overtime is irrelevant, the buttons need to merge. The damage reduction can stay at 15% or go up to 25%, the duration can be lessened or elongated, whatever the case, the primary notion is the cortex of my proposal - that being "MERGE the 2!".

 

Listen, I know this is swtor and blah blah but just hear me out on this because its a good example for what im trying to convey, and brings to light the silliness to people who just go "absolutely, NO" and leave.

In world of warcraft, for 10 years, the majority of the forum community was absolutely wrong and disgustingly off base about whether or not the warrior class should have to use macro's to /equip shield /pop defensive stance & /pop spell reflection. People talked about how fun this was, and challenging it was. Defending it with ridiculous sayings like, "if you make spell reflect just 1 button, the warrior will be too easy and derp derp not be fun"... Its a third eye blind analysis to come to that conclusion. In 2014 they finally made it where you can click one button to pop spell reflection in world of warcraft, rather than write a macro script for equipping a shield, etc etc.. 10 years is a long time......

The philosophy of simplifying the process was factually the way to go back in 2004, but it took them 10 years to implement it. Why? Well....... Sorry to say but one of the main reasons was that the masses don't like 'CHANGE" - its scary to them. They deal with surface data and don't like complexity and most importantly don't IMAGINE the whole web of change involved in 1 seemingly minor change.

Anyway, merging these 2 buttons/items is absolutely necessary to improve gameplay quality. Keep the heal instant if you want, thats fine.

Edited by Warlord_Maliken
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ManiacDavis

ManiacDavis

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I will elaborate on why most people are saying this is a bad idea. Both of these items serve a different purpose. It seems your main goal is to simplify the game. Simplicity in the real world is excellent. Simplicity in video games leads to boring and stale experiences.

 

Let's take my commando for example. The commando has two different types of abilities, those in its main rotation and those that are situational. High impact bolt is an ability (in dps specs) that you want to always be using and should be used in conjunction with its proc. For example in assault, its CD is reset after Full Auto etc. Than their are situational abilities like Diversion or our cleanse. There is no point to use a cleanse on yourself if you are not dotted, and no reason to use a DCD if you are not taking or going to take DMG.

 

All of these abilities taken as a whole can be complex and confusing to new players. However, the game can be completed by using only a fraction of the abilities (story quests etc). I never used cleanse while leveling. For the most part, SWTOR is an easy game to play, but hard game to master. This last element is why I keep coming to SWTOR. As a commando, I know that I can beat most players less skilled than me as a result of this hard to master mechanic. I have tried other games like Guild Wars or Destiny with their simplified MMO abilities and they lose this "hard to master element."

 

By simplifying the game in the manner you suggest, you lower the discrepancy between skilled players and unskilled players. The game no longer becomes you won because you knew your rotation, knew how to counter the enemy, and executed it all at the right time, it becomes a dumbed down experience where the victor is who got a lucky crit.

 

I'm not sure if you played in 1.0 but BW has actually done a lot of work simplifying the game and lowering the barrier to entry without losing this "hard to master" element. In 1.0, your proc'd abilities did not get highlighted and the skill trees were a lot more diverse with hybrid specs. Now skill trees are an easy to use care-bear flow chart. Back in 1.0 the relics were activated similar to WZ Adrenals/Medpacks. You activated them witha button press. I actually miss this because it took away control of my burst. I hate the fact that these randomly occur now and are not tied to something or can be activated independently.

 

To come back around to the main point of this thread, simplicity is boring when it comes to combat mechanics. Diversity leads to fun experiences that allow dedicated players to practice and refine their chars to be viable in multiple situations. If you want the game to be simpler, tell Bioware to change DOTs/HOTs to reflect which one was done by yourself, add telegraphs to show the range of abilities, or a multitude of other items that could make the game easier to approach for new players. But don't dumb the game down so Joe Smo can spam earthquake and win the game.

Edited by ManiacDavis
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Warlord_Maliken

Warlord_Maliken

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ManiacDavis: Simplicity in the real world is excellent. Simplicity in video games leads to boring and stale experiences.

That is not necessarily true by any means ManiacDavis. Also, when you say simplicity leads to a boring and stale gaming experience, what metric of simplicity are you using??? Are you jumping to some extreme form of simplicity for this game, in which all classes have only 6 buttons?

When I say 'simplicity done right is god-like', I am by no means conveying something along the lines of requesting 1 defensive ability instead of 3 because 1 is more simple. I am strictly referring to simplicity being superior in all cases when relative to unnecessary complexity. For example: 'individually click on these 2 adrenals that both serve as non-class oriented defensives. Classes already have 3-4 nice defensives, we don't need 2 additional (defensive) buttons; its overkill regardless of the role being played.

This data corruption, unnecessary complexity, whatever you want to call it, causes a grotesque and overburderning synaptic flux for all roles and all players (veterans and tellytubbies alike).

A good example i've already used in my above post was the WoW warrior, for 10 years having to have a SILLY macro that had them (1) swap to defensive stance (2) equip shield and 1-hander (3) /cast Spell Reflect (4) re-equip 2hander (5) revert back to offensive stance. NO, NO, NO. That is just crude philosophy/game design. 10 years later they would finally realise the notion of simplicity done right is god-like. Today, spell reflect is SIMPLY 1 button and everyone is happy (even though people took your philosophical position for years and cried "nooo don't dumb the warrior down!". The wonderful change did not make the warrior 'simple=boring'. The warrior still has a complex toolkit for pve&pvp and the class is objectively more FUN post change. Only now you get to bypass obnoxious and silly macros that have unnecessry commands corrupting the initial goal of simply wanting to 'spell reflect'. Power-up relics & adrenals in SWtoR are in the same category of this synaptic cluster___. I think its unfortunate and bizarrely true that certain people don't know what they want until its given unto them.

Most of my characters have around 27 buttons that I use in pvp. Thats a lot! By merging the warzone adrenals, I don't think we'll have to worry about 'simplicity done right' making the game too simple and thus boring.

Some people just see and get it; the truth. I find it very strange that I have to bring forth these seemingly obvious notions in communicative form. Why o'Simulatore? Didn't you intelligbly know simplifying the adrenals in a sensible manner wouldn't turn this game in to a faceroller? *twirls mustache*

Everything else about your post is superfluous to the cortex of this thread. It is irrelevant that the company in charge of SWtoR has done a lot of work changing XYZ, thus making the game more 'simple' than ever before. We are discussing the specifically present day stature of the game, focusing on the micro data field analogue(2) of a minor simplification to the Warzone Adrenals while simoltaneously hypothetically considering any negative reverberation to said change.

ManiacDavis: By simplifying the game in the manner you suggest, you lower the discrepancy between skilled players and unskilled players. The game no longer becomes you won because you knew your rotation, knew how to counter the enemy, and executed it all at the right time, it becomes a dumbed down experience where the victor is who got a lucky crit.

I need not respond to this. In conclusion, its obvious that you miscomprehended what I meant by 'simplicity done right is god-like'. My paragraphs above clarify it nicely. And lastly, stating that making this one change to adrenals would create a dumbed down gameplay experience where the victor is whomever got a lucky crit is simply nonsensical and extreme.

TheJollyRogers: [Warzone Adrenal] = Pop before you take a ton of damage. [Warzone Medpac] = Pop after you take a ton of damage. Different items for different purposes.

No. Different items for the same purpose. Both have the primary directive of being defensive. Moreover, each class has 3-4 situational defensive abilities ALREADY. Causing this synaptic cluster___ as I stated earlier is both unnecessary and overburderning to tellytubbies and veterans alike. Its crude, just as the WoW warrior macro spell reflect system was. Merging the 2 would not 'dumb down' this process; each class will still have fluffy defensive measures that they will need to use wisely in the heat of combat.

Edited by Warlord_Maliken
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Smuglebunny

Smuglebunny

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If you have to explain at length why your idea is not a bad idea, it might be a bad idea. If nearly everyone reacts negatively to your idea it might be a bad idea.

 

Or everyone is stupid and you are smart. Its one or the other. ;)

 

But even if that is the case. No one seems to be into the idea of combining WZ packs.

 

Having 2 packs lets me control when I have increased defense and when I just need a heal. There may be a scenario where I would require both, but in that scenario I can press both buttons at once. So there is no need to combine them. In fact this would reduce my strategic options in a WZ. This isnt a good idea. No offense. Sometimes you need to bounce ideas off others before realizing and thats fine.

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NinjaScroll

NinjaScroll

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[Warzone Medpac] + [Warzone Adrenal] = [Warzone Adrenal]

[Tooltip] Instantly grants +30% health and reduces damage taken by 15% for 15 seconds.

 

Simply merge these two things in to 1 item/button. Simplicity done right is god like!

After merging these 2, there is room to mathematically adjust the tooltip of the new [Warzone Adrenal]. For instance:

Proposal#1 Grants -15% damage taken and 30% health over 15 seconds.

Proposal#2 Grants -25% damage taken and 30% health over 10 seconds.

Proposal#3 Grants -30% damage taken and 30% health over 7 seconds.

Or you can leave as is, keeping the heal insta.

 

This change should not affect the cartel market revenue from the adrenal/medpac packs, & those very packs would now grant the updated [Warzone Adrenal] rather than the old combo.

I would love to see this colossal change for the next expansion.

The commendation cost would get adjusted accordingly as well.

 

:rak_09::rak_03::tran_angel::i_wink:

:sy_darkside::sy_darkside::sy_darkside::sy_lightside:

 

I don't agree... and I'm against it because I simply like my adrenal & medpacks just the way they are right now.

I can use them independently from one another and that suits me... I don't wanna have to worry about "But I need the mitigation... not the heals" and vice versa.

 

I think it's perfect the way it is now and it should stay as is.

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foxmob

foxmob

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There is no point to use a cleanse on yourself if you are not going to be dotted, and no reason to use a DCD if you are not taking or going to take DMG..

 

just added a little qualifier there. not a big deal in grp, but I would definitely keep my cleanse on cd in solo (assuming there are dot specs on the other team) since it's a 12s effect. in solo, it's entirely possible to be focused down in just one stun (even with 30% DR), but stacking another 30% DR against the 4-6 dots that are on you (in my experience) saves having to use either adrenal the second you come out of stun (a crit on the instant heal and a punt or HO can be enough to get you through one more "assault").

 

If you have to explain at length why your idea is not a bad idea, it might be a bad idea. If nearly everyone reacts negatively to your idea it might be a bad idea.

 

to be fair, I often use both at the same time as well. but that's because I try to use them as a last resort since they're a one-time use, and my other stuff can come back to me in the same round. and also...KO is absolute junk, so if I'm around 30%, I don't have any faith in KO to rescue me from one player's execute, let alone 2-3.

 

but combining the two adrenals all the time and w/o choice is unnecessary.

Edited by foxmob
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Banderal

Banderal

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Warzone Adrenal = Pop before you take a ton of damage.

Warzone Medpac = Pop after you take a ton of damage.

 

Different items for different purposes.

 

I agree with this. If you combine them, then you lose the option of popping the adrenal early, because you'd be wasting the heal affect. If you waited until the healing was also useful, well then it's time for the enemy to stun you and finish you off before you can pop anything at all.

 

I also agree with ManiacDavis' entire post even though I'm not going to quote it. I like more options, and me figuring out when to use them. I had the same reaction to GW, Secret World and a few others that do that "you can have 5 abilities active" thing. Just so boring. And I don't think that having TWO different click-ables in a WZ is so overwhelming that it's confusing newbies.

 

But I'll admit that it might seem easy to me because I'm used to it. The thing you already know how to do is always easy. Maybe we should ask that person who started the recent "I'm completely new to PvP" thread? :D

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Obviousenuendo

Obviousenuendo

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simply combining the adrenals im okay with (no HOT) but that's because my ocd requires me to use them both in a similar manner of time. I actually hate the fact that the red one has a longer CD. I must always have the same number of each one, meaning I must use them both, if I need heal and the red one isn't up I'll probably just let myself die. unless I'm stopping desperately holding a node but then that means I'll use a red a adrenal and not a green one later.

so combinding them is okay

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Obviousenuendo

Obviousenuendo

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simply combining the adrenals im okay with (no HOT) but that's because my ocd requires me to use them both in a similar manner of time. I actually hate the fact that the red one has a longer CD. I must always have the same number of each one, meaning I must use them both, if I need heal and the red one isn't up I'll probably just let myself die. unless I'm stopping desperately holding a node but then that means I'll use a red a adrenal and not a green one later.

so combinding them is okay

 

oh yeah, itd be nice too because nothing sucks more than trying to pop both at the same, and then you get stunned after you use one, and die, but not the other one, so you have to waste the other so they stay even and hope the cd is ready when you actually do need it.

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