Bioware, please don't keep secrets. We Don't want an NGE

[Kaisernick]

The NGE killed SWG almost overnight. I don't think you can just dismiss all the people who quit so easily.

Most people seemed angry that they PAID for the exp and when the NGE hit they felt ripped off cause they didn't like the changes and wernt told.

 

Since noone is paying for this Exp players cant feel ripped off. And as i said yes there were problems with the NGE but i know many players eventually returned and liked the improvements they saw near the end.

[Malastare]

If you can't argue with my main argument, then please don't. Otherwise you end up in a situation where you start arguing yourself by dreaming up " insults" I've never really made and then getting all excited out of those.

 

I can argue with your main argument. I've finished the game on a good dozen characters. I've gone through Makeb (but not Rishi, yet) on about 6 or 8 more. I've maxed the Makeb reputation on two legacies.

 

In my opinion, you're simply wrong. Makeb was actually a step up in complexity and difficulty from Corellia. There were more complex quest mechanics, more bosses requiring changes to tactics, and simply more density of higher-difficulty mobs in various areas. This was originally managed by supplying better equipment. Later it was smoothed out by adding in the GSI buff, which alleviated some of the equipment issues with the faster leveling. If Makeb had been faceroll-easy, those wouldn't have been added.

 

Was it really "difficult"? No. It's a game. The grand majority of games aren't difficult, because most people who play games don't enjoy repeated failure. They want the interactions to be interesting and entertaining, not challenging. That is what really changes in the post-chapter-3 part of the game. There are still the standard fetch-quests and kill-10-spiders quests, but most of the main-line story quests include extra complexity, whether that be from mechanics, mob difficulty, or simply managing geography and pathing.

 

Does this continue on Rishi and Yavin? Mostly, with some return to the story/quest interactions of Chapter 2-3, where story quests are somewhat simplified in order to integrate into the story. Side quests still range from MMO standard to semi-unique uses of macrobinoculars/excavation-droid and some non-standard fight mechanics. The biggest difference isn't really in quest or single-fight difficulty, but in the sudden difficulty jumps that happen when things don't go as planned, in particular patrolling mobs and the increased chance of being pushed into other mobs aggro zones. Makeb, Rishi, and Yavin are much less forgiving in these instances than previous planets.

 

All in all, its still an advancement of the difficulty and mechanics variety than we saw in chapter 1-3, and the majority of players still died more on Makeb than during Chapter 3. The fact that you don't see this seems to be largely because of your inability to deal with your own selection bias. Take this as an example:

 

When was the last time SW:TOR's main campaign has made it necessary for you to ask this question from yourself?During vanilla..maybe! Here and there. After Makeb? Ever? Even once?"

 

Here you show your lack of familiarity with the game and the community. There are numerous calls for help with various bosses in Chapter 1 through 3 (Skotia is popular, Lady Frabaal is a little less so, end of Warrior-Chapter3 used to be popular), but most of these instances come from players that are either horribly under-leveled, horribly geared, or are missing some critical technique (use of interrupt, usually).

 

Makeb has a number of places where people have routinely asked for help even with good gear and being max level. The end of the Imperial quest is a famous one. It is probably the boss fight with the most requests for help, and at least pre-GSI-buff, was tuned to the point that even end-game-geared characters with experience in the fight would die repeatedly if they didn't pick a complimentary companion (even if they had played just fine with others up to that point). Seriously, you see requests on Gen Chat for help with other bosses, but the end of Imperial Makeb generated numerous forum threads with people asking for help.

 

But you seem to have ignored those people, and that's both human and sort of expected. By your interactions with others on this thread, you don't seem to be very adept at seeing things from other perspectives, and so it's not surprising that you'd think that your experience is the normal one and that any counter-examples you might have come across are nonsensical and can be easily ignored.

 

To be clear: Yeah, my last time through Makeb, I played rather fast and loose and burned through with some somewhat sloppy play and still made it through with a minimum of challenge. However, I've played through many times and I know what to expect, what to be wary of, and how to counter most challenges. At the same time, I'm not so arrogant or blind that I've forgotten my first play through, or that I can't see the challenges being faced by new players, many of which are not MMO veterans. I would much rather that I play though with very few challenges than they quit halfway through because they're not here to play a game that forces them to spend a half hour on a quest before looking up the solution on YouTube. Most people don't find that fun. If that means that you're not "most people", then you should take that as a learning opportunity and realize that your opinions on what makes a good game are not as common as you think.

 

Of course, simply arguing that wasn't enough for you, and you descended into some of the worst examples of internet hyperbole I've seen tossed out here ("Fights are easier than opening farmville!"). And no, the criticism of hyperbole is not a new thing, It's been around for years, but only in recent years has the actual use of hyperbole and the weak-minded belief that its now suddenly an effective argument technique taken hold.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Malastare

[tdmaha]

Oh no there is a small group of people who can't let go of "nge". Stop bringing it up here SWG is dead it's gone no dev is trying to copy it for a reason... Let it go what it's been ten years? Edited June 26, 2015 by tdmaha

[branmakmuffin]

Oh no there is a small group of people who can't let go of "nge". Stop bringing it up here SWG is dead it's gone no dev is trying to copy it for a reason... Let it go what it's been ten years?

I suspect SWG will be troll/flame bait in SW-based multi-player games for a long time.

[LoverNoFighter]

I suspect SWG will be troll/flame bait in SW-based multi-player games for a long time.

 

I suspect SWTOR will be easliy and fast forgotten when it shuts down.

[Andrellma]

I love how every new release (2.0, 3.0, upcoming 4.0) invariably gets compared to NGE before we even have any information about it.

 

Never change, SWG trolls.

[branmakmuffin]

I suspect SWTOR will be easliy and fast forgotten when it shuts down.

Suspect all you want. Irrelevant in any event. It's just a game. As was SWG. Are you implying that SWG was awesome because people use it as flame- and troll-bait here?

[Montague]

I suspect SWTOR will be easliy and fast forgotten when it shuts down.

 

Perhaps, but it will always be remembered as more popular and more successful than Star Wars Galaxies.

[LoverNoFighter]

Perhaps, but it will always be remembered as more popular and more successful than Star Wars Galaxies.

 

It won't be remembered at all.

[Steelarion]

Staying with the theme of making suppositions with no facts to base them on.....let's try this....

 

97.9% of current SWTOR players never played SWG

 

88.9% of SWTOR players never HEARD of SWG

 

the numbers are irrelevant, just as any supposition made by the OP and others is irrelevant, as there are NO facts to base any of it on.

 

Hell..90% of the actual player base never visit these forums...or probably do not even know they exist.

 

LOL....you people crack me up....life is really simple....

 

Play

 

or do not

[Leklor]

It won't be remembered at all.

 

Like Star Wars Galaxies has been all but forgotten by a few die-hard fans who can't let go of it and repeat ad nauseam that it was the best game ever and SWTOR is **** because it's not identical?

SWTOR will at least leave a mark for the progress it made on storytelling in MMOs at initial release, for what comes after, I personally liked it but I know many didn't.

[branmakmuffin]

Staying with the theme of making suppositions with no facts to base them on.....let's try this....

 

97.9% of current SWTOR players never played SWG

 

88.9% of SWTOR players never HEARD of SWG

 

the numbers are irrelevant, just as any supposition made by the OP and others is irrelevant, as there are NO facts to base any of it on.t

I can tell you that 100% of players with the forum handle "branmakmuffin" never heard of SWG until they started playing TOR (DDO was my MMO when SWG was around).

Edited June 26, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Rafaman]

Hmm... I'm getting a bad feeling about this.

 

Jurgy? Is that you? Are you back?

[Azut]

Seriously?! Yet ANOTHER butthurt SWG fanboy thread about this very same subject?! Search engine is a thing you know?

[CmdrShpd]

I love how every new release (2.0, 3.0, upcoming 4.0) invariably gets compared to NGE before we even have any information about it.

 

Never change, SWG trolls.

 

I know, right? Numerous forum posters told us that 3.0 was going to be SWTOR's NGE, but now apparently 4.0 is the real, legit, no take-backs NGE. It all gets so confusing!

[Pompeia]

I understand the OP concern. I too was forced out of SWG by the NGE and the fact that so much is planned to change now scares me. On one hand I continue to love the games Bioware makes, wich bodes well, on another the movie showing yet another destroyed scenario scares me, has does the focus on a more action based combat system wich was what lead swg to its disaster. I am a little reassured by MMORPG words that it looks more cinematic, more like what we could see on a movie. Thats what imersses me, and why the spin kick was so cool.

 

I enjoy living vibrant worlds and nice combat animations like ravage, or the spin kick you stole from my marauder and is now an exclusive interrupt from jedi warrior. I enjoyed this game combat system more has it was in the begining, and i dont like it half has much now, even with the dual blades throw. Things like the removal of my agent explosive probe and orbitral strike have made him retire, and can make or break the game.

 

Also, the vibrant world, last thing I want to see is the current planets in the same state Ziost is post spoiler. Wich is a pitty, I understand why there was a post spoiler but I actualy enjoyed that planet before it.

 

Also, I have heard the: It Will have a Remarkable story before. It does indeed, makeb had one nice to do 3 times at most, one light, one dark, one republic was my limit - forged alliances was nice but only with very minor diference between republic/empire, so worth 2 runs at most, and I havent experienced republic Ziost yet since my sentinel lacks 1 level - so on this i dont know.

 

I do know I LOVE the Class Quests. The mere thought that they may cut some of those quests short to enhance the all experience is just not acceptable. If they dont want to do more class quests, at least dont cut on what is done. And dont steal my companions, you may temporarily make them go away, but I want to be abble to get them back, save for some I would have killed if i had the chance. And i dont want to be forced to grind ilimited dailies to do so.

I hate repeating stuff that doesnt even have nuances.

 

Yes Im worried too, so my hype is = has worry untill told I can relax and that anything is going to be all right.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Pompeia

[tdmaha]

So I could be wrong here but some of these SWG/NGE guys remind me of stories you hear about some dude who gets dumped by his GF/BF. He becomes is so devastated and can't move on with his life for years ends up in jail or rehab because of it...

 

Anyone else get that impression from these SWG/NGE guys?

[branmakmuffin]

Yes Im worried too, so my hype is = has worry untill told I can relax that anything is going to be all right.

If you truly get "worried" about what happens in a computer game, you probably should not be playing it.

[Malastare]

I understand the OP concern. I too was forced out of SWG by the NGE and the fact that so much is planned to change now scares me.

 

Like what?

 

From what we've heard, nothing from Level 1 to 60 is changing. They're not reworking combat or revamping crafting or making drastic changes to the advanced classes. They're just adding a new block of story quests.

 

That's what makes this SWG/NGE whining so worthless. There's no information at all to support it, just a bunch of former-SWG players desperately hoping that this game will be hurt by an NGE-like change so that they can soothe their decade-long anguish with the annoyance of others. And with every release, they hope that will come... and it doesn't.

[Azut]

If you truly get "worried" about what happens in a computer game, you probably should not be playing it.

 

Don't mind the SWG trolls they'll never stop.

[Sarfux]

It won't be remembered at all.

 

SWTOR has had more players in a couple months than SWG did in 5 years. SWTOR made more money in a month than SWG made in 5 years. Those are facts. Let go. This isn't healthy. Deal with it. I'm a diehard Star Wars fan and I can understand the SWG love, but just let it go. SWTOR is the better game.

 

And no, no need to point out I'm being subjective with me saying swtor is the better game and trying to start an argument that way. No duh sherlock. Of course I'm being subjective because I'm saying it.

[branmakmuffin]

I understand the OP concern. I too was forced out of SWG by the NGE

"Forced out." Gotta love it. I bet it's not a pun.

[Sarfux]

Don't mind the SWG trolls they'll never stop.

 

If this game in 3 years made another expansion that added tons of sandbox features, gave us 5 non combat classes, introduced farming and stuff like that. They would still complain. Some people just LOVE living in the past and complaining about what's NOT here instead of enjoying what IS here. It's a real problem with some people.

[Malastare]

So I could be wrong here but some of these SWG/NGE guys remind me of stories you hear about some dude who gets dumped by his GF/BF. He becomes is so devastated and can't move on with his life for years ends up in jail or rehab because of it...

 

Pretty much.

 

It seems to be a case where a tiny fraction of the fanbase got so attached to the game that they considered themselves to be worthy of being involved in development decisions. Then, when a decision was made that they didn't like (regardless of how necessary it was, or how it might have played into bigger plans by the developer), they take it as a personal betrayal. Now, they refuse to let go, because admitting that it wasn't a betrayal would mean that they'd have to admit that it was just a game that was struggling to stay alive and their part in that was ultimately inconsequential.

 

So, like a bitter ex, they continue on, complaining about that one time they got hurt, and actively sabotaging themselves and others, by insisting that the inevitable betrayal is just around the bend, and that they should lash out and strike first before that happens.

[Pompeia]

You underestimate the nerd level of some of us SW and MMO player fans i guess

 

Based on the reports of those from press that were on the E3 and from the expansion page itself.

 

"With the launch of Knights of the Fallen Empire, all of the original eight Class stories will be enhanced"

 

And also from MMORPG

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/9796/E3-2015-Knights-of-the-Fallen-Empire-Preview.html

 

"BioWare knows that a lot of their players like SWTOR because it’s a continuation of Knights of the Old Republic as much as it is an MMO. So for Knights of the Fallen Empire they are focusing really hard on upping their cut-scene and story-telling game. Cameras move during story scenes, animations and overall direction are far more diverse than in the other story-focused contents and expansions. Watching the player, now known as The Outlander, escape from the carbonite prison with the help of Lana and Koth was an absolutely riveting experience.

 

Gameplay wise, BioWare promises lots more info to come on all the new class skills, but the main goal of the new powers is to increase the mobility and action of each class as they want the pace of combat to increase overall with KotFE. Watching the Skytroopers fly around, come in through windows, and make combat more movement heavy gave a good impression that we’ll be doing a lot more moving during fights in the expansion".

 

Combat will change.