Ravage on the move would make class perfect

[Skettitangles]

Marauder/Sentinel only Ravage on the move would pretty much make this class perfect and distinguish us from Juggs in a very cool way. The only other thing I can think of is a cd reduction utility for unleash or ability to activate a defensive like UR or FC while stunned but that might be too much. I'd like this more than the idea of giving us more self heals just like every other class.

[Ziffron]

given the animation would have to be gutted, I feel it safe to say that it's NEVER going to happen

[Skettitangles]

I've thought that about the animation before but I don't think it's as big an issue as people might make out. Look at the acrobatic/spinning jugg attacks shatter and impale and how they play out on the move. If it's a big problem easy fix... Make a replacement ability

[Bonzenaattori]

So let's just understand this:

 

We start off with Debilitate, which was unique to sentinels. Guardians cried... Bioware gave it to Guardians.

Then...

Bioware then removed Master Focus (increased Master Strike damage) from Sentinels and left it with Guardians

They then nerf Master Strike as a whole... and buffed Master Focus (was 9% now its 20%), so its significantly more stronger on Guardians

And you think giving Sentinel's the ability to move while channeling an ability that can immobilize the target while channeling would make this class perfect?

 

I'm sorry but I disagree...

Master Strike on a Sentinel isn't a "go-to" ability anymore, so changing it in a way that increases mobility I do not feel would accomplish much.

It would be a nice touch, especially in PVE, where the immobilization on this utility has a laughable grade of viability don't get me wrong... but I doubt it would make this class 'perfect'

 

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence by how I'm saying this, and I'm sorry if it appears this way, but I's in a position where I question the motive of Bioware and their agenda, and when they say stuff like:

"We feel Master Strike on Sentinel is too strong inside a Precision slash window."

and combine that with the nerfs specifically towards sentinels on this ability. I feel like Bioware don't want us using it as much as we do... or did.

Therefore in my opinion, I'd rather toss the skill into my "filler" list and not give a Bantha about what possible viability the potential of a skill that's been sold short due to the cries of the wounded

Edited June 15, 2015 by Bonzenaattori

[Skettitangles]

It's more about taking away the need to stand still and channel an ability at all to further increase mobility. A jugg should be able to stand still take damage and put out damage with their survivability. A mara should be played differently in both pvp and pve. The damage is fine for me in both carnage and fury. Haven't played Anni since 3.0 so I can't talk for that spec. With so much immunity to movement impairment in pvp a ravage on the move can only increase uptime on targets that can easily evade it and kite you. Same for pve with so many mechanics that might cause you to use a different skill in your rotation to move out of the circle of incoming damage etc.

[DynamiCtagez]

I couldn't care less for Ravage on the move PvP-wise, if we could the old damage back instead. It got nerfed so hard with 3.0 it's not even funny.

[sloasdaylight]

I couldn't care less for Ravage on the move PvP-wise, if we could the old damage back instead. It got nerfed so hard with 3.0 it's not even funny.

 

This.

[Skettitangles]

Hmmmmm..... You guys actually pvp on your marauder/sentinels or have you benched them?

[sloasdaylight]

Hmmmmm..... You guys actually pvp on your marauder/sentinels or have you benched them?

 

I PvP regularly on my Sentinel.

[Skettitangles]

And you find your damage lacking? Would a buffed Ravage make a huge difference in your gameplay experience?

[DynamiCtagez]

And you find your damage lacking? Would a buffed Ravage make a huge difference in your gameplay experience?

 

Have you ever played Carnage in ranked before 3.0? Or have you ever used Carnage before 3.0 at all? Carnage burst was extremely dependant on Ravage. Extremely hard-hitting but also very easy to counter.

I played group ranked setups that were completely dependant on Carnage bfor 3.0 and the burst was key to these hardswitch setups. Carnage is now CLEARLY lacking the burst it once had, solely because of the Ravage nerf.

Not sure if you know what hardswitch is--I'll explain it to you: you mezz the tank and switch on an unguarded stunlocked target. After you forced both breakers, you should be able to kill the target within the mezz window (6-8secs).

Since hardswitch setups don't build much pressure in between switches you pretty much have to get the target from 98% health to 0% in these 6-8secs.

 

Before 3.0 a Carnage Marauder could almost do this on his own. Now you can take half of a targets health with Ravage/Devastating Blast at best. Again: Carnage burst used to be VERY good but also VERY easy to counter. Which made it so fair. Now it's just very easy to counter, but not very good anymore. One knockback ruins our already lackluster burst.

In a hardswitch scenario you're nowadays mainly needed for the mezz, not for the damage. The Sniper or PT in your team will do the damage on the switch. He can now do what you once could: take 90% of the targets health in these 6-8secs.

The fact that Carnage burst got nerfed so hard (mainly due to the Ravage nerf) is one of the main reasons why hardswitch setups are even harder to pull of nowadays: Before 3.0 both dps in a hardswitch setup could take 90% of the targets health on their own if left alone. One knockback, pacify, or stun wouldn't ruin everything. Since now only one of the two DPS does almost all the damage, it's even easier to counter than it already is with all the Hatred/Madness sins and sorcs. Keep that DPS ccd during a switch at any cost and you win.

 

tl;dr: yes, buffed Ravage damage (at least for Carnage) would make an insane difference in my gameplay experience. Ravage on the move wouldn't do ****, as I would get ccd anyway, because even with Ravage on the move I'd have to stay in melee range.

Edited June 17, 2015 by DynamiCtagez

[sloasdaylight]

And you find your damage lacking? Would a buffed Ravage make a huge difference in your gameplay experience?

 

My ability to pressure with damage as Combat is no where close to what it was pre-3.0 when Master Strike would actually do real damage. I can't say for sure whether it would make a huge difference, but scaling Master Strike back up to its pre-3.0 levels would most certainly be welcome.

[JouerTue]

now, when i play combat in pvp, i almost don't use it..i used to take the utility to add the root, but now the utilities are such a mess that i have to take others, so i just use it to fake a PS and eat the stun/KB.

the actual burst is just dispatch and CB, only with zen+stasis it's worth use it..at least in my opinion..the damage reverted to pre 3.0 would be better than doing it while moving..

[Romeugues]

Imo unstoppable would make Maras and Sents *much* better, rather than ravage/MS on the move.

[Skettitangles]

Ok this was never meant to be a combat/carnage specific thread. More a suggestion for all specs. But seeing as it's gone this way I'd like to point out that prior to 3.0 you got 3cgds into a gore window and additionaly could reliably hit vicious throw before gore to get that full burst you're talking about so I find the arguments that solely call for a ravage buff to bring back the intensity of the combat/carnage burst a bit of an oversimplification. Regardless of the value of your ravage damage you're still gonna be susceptible to cc during a hard switch. I've also said all specs should get a version of gravity vortex cc immunity like fury spec has several times on the forums so I agree on that point.

 

 

Tldr: the game has changed since pre 3.0 kindly move on

[sloasdaylight]

Ok this was never meant to be a combat/carnage specific thread. More a suggestion for all specs. But seeing as it's gone this way I'd like to point out that prior to 3.0 you got 3cgds into a gore window and additionaly could reliably hit vicious throw before gore to get that full burst you're talking about so I find the arguments that solely call for a ravage buff to bring back the intensity of the combat/carnage burst a bit of an oversimplification. Regardless of the value of your ravage damage you're still gonna be susceptible to cc during a hard switch. I've also said all specs should get a version of gravity vortex cc immunity like fury spec has several times on the forums so I agree on that point.

 

 

Tldr: the game has changed since pre 3.0 kindly move on

 

The whole susceptible to CC thing is kind of the point. Sent were always susceptible to CC, but we had major damage we could output if left alone. The whole risk/reward thing was better pre-3.0 BECAUSE we could output so much more dmg with master strike.

[Skettitangles]

Ok this is all well and good but the fact s are things have changed: 1 Fury is the designated burst spec post 3.0 and Carnage is a hybrid burst/sustained dps spec. 2 Most other ACs have gained more mobility which has had a negative impact on the Mara/Sentinel class which used to have superior mobility 3. BW have made it pretty clear that dps buffs are NOT the way they intend to address class balanc moving forward.

 

With that in mind, the idea here is to come up with ideas on how to improve what we already have in the current game environment that are viabe for pvp and pve. I'd love a harder hitting Ravage. No question there. I don't think I'm going to get it so there's no point using any pre 3.0 references in asking for future tweaks to the class or the Carnage discipline.

[sloasdaylight]

Ok this is all well and good but the fact s are things have changed: 1 Fury is the designated burst spec post 3.0 and Carnage is a hybrid burst/sustained dps spec. 2 Most other ACs have gained more mobility which has had a negative impact on the Mara/Sentinel class which used to have superior mobility 3. BW have made it pretty clear that dps buffs are NOT the way they intend to address class balanc moving forward.

 

With that in mind, the idea here is to come up with ideas on how to improve what we already have in the current game environment that are viabe for pvp and pve. I'd love a harder hitting Ravage. No question there. I don't think I'm going to get it so there's no point using any pre 3.0 references in asking for future tweaks to the class or the Carnage discipline.

 

There's plenty of point when you can establish a use or role that the class previously had that it now doesn't thanks to a change. Pre-3.0, Combat was the burst spec; post, it's not. Honestly, I'm fine with the Devs changing things around every now and then (not quite to this extent, but that's a different story). However, with the changes, I can't really see a role for Combat to have anymore. Watchman does better sustained damage by pretty ridiculous margins, Concentration is much better for burst, which leaves Combat out in the cold with nowhere to call home. It's not a highly mobile spec, it's not good sustained pressure, it's not a good hard swap spec (which no one does anymore right now anyway), it doesn't parse well - so what's it good for?

[Skettitangles]

That's actually a very good question. Some players have logged some outstanding dps parses for HM boss fights in Carnage spec but they are very few and far between. Carnage should have always been given Deadly Throw as a baseline ability and kept viable at least for pvp but for some reason the devs nerfed it into a "learn how to maraud" leveling spec and went too far oversimplifying it's rotation. The thing I don't think they're fully aware of is just how difficult the timing of the Gore windows can be on a dummy parse let alone a HM boss fight especially with lag factored in. I do hope that the KOTFE xpac brings something special to the Carnage equation.