Darth Vader and Darth Tyranus vs Darth Nox and Emperor's Wrath

[ShenLongKazama]

Vader without his suit would prove a challenge, but Dooku is fodder. His only asset is his lightsaber mastery, force power wise he would get destroyed.

[Dayshadow]

Dooku is completely outclassed here.

 

So really it's Vader vs. Nox and Wrath. There is no way he can take them both. The Wrath alone would be about evenly matched.

 

A better matchup is Vader and Sidious.

[Dayshadow]

I have to disagree with this assessment. Vader, at the time of his death in Return of the Jedi, was in his late 40s to early 50s. He had been taken in by the Jedi and trained in the Jedi arts at the age of 9. The Wrath begins trained as a Sith in adulthood, with little known force training prior to arriving on Korriban.

 

It's implied that he, and all the acolytes, had been training before they arrive on Korriban. Korriban was the final phase of training. They all show up combat ready. Given the fact that the Wrath is from a noble family (and canonically a pureblood) he has probably been training since childhood. It's also conflicting because in some instances it's said that only the best go to Korriban (and the rest to other places) and then in other times it seems like everyone is shipped to Korriban. Even brand new people who've never even held a training saber like that kid the BH can send there from Hutta.

[SithKoriandr]

Vader's being underestimated because people keep seeing him as the 1970's movie version, instead of the monster combatant he'd be now with today's effects.

 

The original fight scenes would be so much better with today's cgi than what they were in the original trilogy. Comics and books just seem to focus on that. They should just do what the Robocop reboot did...the cyborg is fast! Just like we see in game

 

I always got the impression that the Wrath and Nox were only supposed to be rivaled by the Consular and Knight in the TOR era, but Vader is still supposed to be THE ONE!

 

This leaves Tyranus, while accomplished, no match for Wrath and Nox, leaving Vader to keep his team together. Also, do we even want to count comics/books that don't even count anymore. For Vader, it took fighting his son then going after the powerful Sidious (without a real break) to be defeated.

 

Wrath and Nox always seem to need to take down those powerful Force Users with the help of other people (FPs/using companions/what have you).

 

Vader & Tyranus vs Nox and Wrath? Winner: Vader with Tyranus knocked out.

[Xilizhra]

Vader's being underestimated because people keep seeing him as the 1970's movie version, instead of the monster combatant he'd be now with today's effects.

 

The original fight scenes would be so much better with today's cgi than what they were in the original trilogy. Comics and books just seem to focus on that. They should just do what the Robocop reboot did...the cyborg is fast! Just like we see in game

 

I always got the impression that the Wrath and Nox were only supposed to be rivaled by the Consular and Knight in the TOR era, but Vader is still supposed to be THE ONE!

 

This leaves Tyranus, while accomplished, no match for Wrath and Nox, leaving Vader to keep his team together. Also, do we even want to count comics/books that don't even count anymore. For Vader, it took fighting his son then going after the powerful Sidious (without a real break) to be defeated.

 

Wrath and Nox always seem to need to take down those powerful Force Users with the help of other people (FPs/using companions/what have you).

 

Vader & Tyranus vs Nox and Wrath? Winner: Vader with Tyranus knocked out.

Vader went down against Luke in under a minute once Luke got serious.

 

I don't really see any evidence that Darth Vader is that much stronger than Darth Baras or Darth Thanaton.

[Canareth]

It's implied that he, and all the acolytes, had been training before they arrive on Korriban. Korriban was the final phase of training. They all show up combat ready. Given the fact that the Wrath is from a noble family (and canonically a pureblood) he has probably been training since childhood. It's also conflicting because in some instances it's said that only the best go to Korriban (and the rest to other places) and then in other times it seems like everyone is shipped to Korriban. Even brand new people who've never even held a training saber like that kid the BH can send there from Hutta.

 

This is discussed. Traditionally Korriban is/would be (since it had been in exile) the elite finisher academy. The Cold War Sith have a numbers problem and so are feeding every Force Sensitive they can find into it on the chance that some of them are truly strong and can survive. Many of the Sith on Korriban openly dislike this.

 

This does succeed after a fashion by turning up Kallig.

[PadsterPwns]

Before I try and respond how are we judging the Wrath and Nox? Are we just assuming they have the skills from both AC's or are we just going from cut scenes? As this affects the battle largely.

[SithKoriandr]

Vader went down against Luke in under a minute once Luke got serious.

 

I don't really see any evidence that Darth Vader is that much stronger than Darth Baras or Darth Thanaton.

 

By serious, you mean gave into the dark side? Though, I'd argue it'd have been a grander fight in today's cgi movies versus 1983's keep the cyborg slow.

[Dayshadow]

Vader went down against Luke in under a minute once Luke got serious.

 

I don't really see any evidence that Darth Vader is that much stronger than Darth Baras or Darth Thanaton.

 

 

Luke being stronger in the force than Vader doesn't diminish Vader's strength in the force.

[Dayshadow]

By serious, you mean gave into the dark side? Though, I'd argue it'd have been a grander fight in today's cgi movies versus 1983's keep the cyborg slow.

 

This is why I say screw these sentimental windbags and remake the original. It's not like the old versions will disappear from existence. Same dialog, music, etc. but with up to date effects. I can't even watch the originals. The lightsaber fight scenes are horrible. Obi-wan and Vader look like two toddler shaking pixie sticks at each other. Only that last one in RotJ is bearable.

[Diviciacus]

Luke being stronger in the force than Vader doesn't diminish Vader's strength in the force.

 

I'm pretty sure what diminished Vader's strength in the force was obi-Wan chopping off all his limbs on Mustafar.

[Tankdoog]

That depends. If it's a duel in an empty room, Nox and the Wrath would utterly curbstomp the other two. The Wrath is what Vader would be if he weren't slowed down by cybernetics, while Nox is vastly more powerful than Dooku, and probably at least a competent duelist.

 

If we're talking starfighter battle? Vader wins by default.

 

If you mean Kaggath-style all-out war, that's actually a close fight. Nox and Vader are both brilliant strategists, while Dooku and the Wrath would make effective field commanders. Fleet-wise, the Death Star and the Silencer are probably about matched, but if Vader could get the Death Star to Nox's home planet (let's say Vader and Dooku are working from Coruscant while Nox and the Wrath are working from DK), it's all over. Boom.

 

Oh, wait. It's Nox. Nevermind, he/she's just crazy. Imperius is weak. Occlus is the real evil mastermind.

 

 

This is wrong on so many levels. Not only is Count Dooku alone more skilled with a lightsaber than the Wrath could ever even conceive of being, he also boasts a debatably better mastery of force lightning than Nox.

 

The Wrath and Nox have done nothing to suggest they could match up to Dooku and Vader. Honestly, what feats does the Wrath have to suggest he could even strike Dooku?

[Tankdoog]

Dooku is completely outclassed here.

 

So really it's Vader vs. Nox and Wrath. There is no way he can take them both. The Wrath alone would be about evenly matched.

 

A better matchup is Vader and Sidious.

 

Outclassed based on what?

[Tankdoog]

As has been stated, the SI would make a mockery of Vader because Vader has virtually no defence against lightning short of his lightsaber. He was not resistant to it as some suggest because why the hell would sidious make Vader resistant to his best method of controlling him. Vader would never be required to kill a sith, so why make him resistant to lightning, it would literally only work against sidious, who isn't that stupid. After this Dooku would drop as he would likely be beaten by either 1v1, but 2v1? Not a hope In hell. But I stand by my original point. With the force spirits, the SI would thundering blast both through the wall as soon as the fight began. His force ability is that of 6 powerful force wielding entities, whereas Vader and Dooku are both just one each. Hell, the SI could just use the force to disarm them and there would be nothing that either could do about it. Imagine the force power of Anakin, Dooku, Sidious, Yoda, pre redemption Revan and, some other powerful force wielder all rolled into one neat little bundle of "UNLIMITED POWER!" and you basically have what the SI has become when he calls upon the spirits. He brings a dark councillor to his knees with no effort on his part. I don't believe either Dooku or vaders abilities in the force are above the level of a swtor dark councillor.

 

 

Neither the Wrath nor Nox could dream of beating Dooku by themselves. It would require them both to have even a sliver of hope.

[Karkais]

This is wrong on so many levels. Not only is Count Dooku alone more skilled with a lightsaber than the Wrath could ever even conceive of being, he also boasts a debatably better mastery of force lightning than Nox.

 

The Wrath and Nox have done nothing to suggest they could match up to Dooku and Vader. Honestly, what feats does the Wrath have to suggest he could even strike Dooku?

 

Neither have Dooku or Vader, respectively. Im tried of these discussions. There is nothing to base your claims on, except maybe George's word, which matters jack **** these days. You just randomly claim that they are super-duper-powerful. Hot air, thats all.

 

Lets see, Vader: force choked only non-force users. Lasted against force lightning all of five seconds (whereas for example Yoda completely neutralized Dooku's force lightning and Windu survived Palpatine's). Lost to a Jedi. In short: Vader is a loser. (note: Im making a distinction between Vader and Anakin)

 

Please, no more "He wasn't serious" arguments. Vader is laughable.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Karkais

[Tankdoog]

Neither have Dooku or Vader, respectively. Im tried of these discussions. There is nothing to base your claims on, except maybe George's word, which matters jack **** these days. You just randomly claim that they are super-duper-powerful. Hot air, thats all.

 

Lets see, Vader: force choked only non-force users. Lasted against force lightning all of five seconds (whereas for example Yoda completely neutralized Dooku's force lightning and Windu survived Palpatine's). Lost to a Jedi. In short: Vader is a loser. (note: Im making a distinction between Vader and Anakin)

 

Please, no more "He wasn't serious" arguments. Vader is laughable.

 

Dooku was one of the most powerful Jedi not merely of his era, but in history.

 

"He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder."

 

Source: Revenge of the Sith

 

He was also too evenly matched with Yoda for Yoda to defeat him with simple force abilities.

 

"The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched."

 

Source: Lightsabers: A guide to the weapons of the force.

 

Unless you want to argue that Nox is more powerful than Yoda??

 

Not only this, but it's stated again that he is one of the most powerful Force practitioners in history.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3640078-9139540002-33343.jpg

 

He took on both Anakin and Obi-Wan at once, multiple times, who are miles ahead of Nox and the Wrath in terms of saber mastery.

 

He also moves impossible fast even for Anakin, someone who was extremely potent in the force and skilled with a lightsaber.

 

"Obi-Wan understood immediately, even before he noted Anakin’s blue blade coming up and over the other way-the green blade would push the Count’s lightsaber out of the way, clearing the path for the victorious strike!

 

But Dooku retracted impossibly fast, and Anakin’s down-cutting green blade hit nothing but air."

 

And here he toys with General Greivous; and these are a mere drop in the ocean compared to how many more feats he has.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/3937602-a1tp9.gif

 

Now, again, I ask you. What can the Wrath or Nox possibly do to put down Dooku?

 

And Vader is debatably even more impressive than Dooku. Do you want me to show you why Vader could possibly solo as well?

[Dayshadow]

Outclassed based on what?

 

The SWTOR writers who portray them as the Moses and Jesus of their orders. This is all based on each individuals impression of the characters. If your assessment that soandso is strong because a line from a book says "this guy was the best" yet all you see them do is mediocre stuff, they are going to be viewed as mediocre because your standards are higher. You'd just assume all the force users of that person's era were just less than mediocre. This is how I see Dooku. He's better than most of the scrubs of his era, but he's on top of a pile of weak sauce.

 

Dooku was one of the most powerful Jedi not merely of his era, but in history.

 

"He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder."

 

This is a fluff statement. How can the people in the present honestly speak on the opinion of other members of their order long dead? In other words, you can't state that he is one of the most respected and powerful in 2500 years as no one living at the time is aware of the objective amount of respect and power held by all Jedi throughout that 2500yr timespan. It's a absurd statement.

 

A more honest statement would be he was of the most respected and powerful Jedi of his time. That's the only time period anyone can judge him on practically.

 

Unless you want to argue that Nox is more powerful than Yoda??

 

Yes, Nox is more powerful than Yoda. Yes, the Wrath is also more powerful than Yoda. And there is nothing that can be said to prove or disapprove that assertion. Yes, Vader is more powerful than Yoda. Yes, Sidious is more powerful than Yoda. Disagree?

 

Not only this, but it's stated again that he is one of the most powerful Force practitioners in history.

 

Another empty statement that has no actual substance. He is this or that because a line in a book says so? Not to mention the fact that SWTOR is not a part of that history. I'm saying Nox and Wrath are powerful because everyone they meet says so and they crush the most powerful force users under their heels and take on armies single handedly on a regular basis. Not because Bioware writers put a blurb on their webpage saying they were the best in history without any real example.

 

If Bioware writers say that the Barsenthor, Darth Nox, the Knight and the Wrath are the most powerful force users ever in the entire history of the galaxy would that make it so even if you saw Luke Skywalker fly through space naked and literally kick a star into a blackhole?

[Tankdoog]

The SWTOR writers who portray them as the Moses and Jesus of their orders. This is all based on each individuals impression of the characters. If your assessment that soandso is strong because a line from a book says "this guy was the best" yet all you see them do is mediocre stuff, they are going to be viewed as mediocre because your standards are higher. You'd just assume all the force users of that person's era were just less than mediocre. This is how I see Dooku. He's better than most of the scrubs of his era, but he's on top of a pile of weak sauce.

 

You do know how hilariously hypocritical you sound, don't you? You say that the writers "portray" them as Moses and Jesus, yet you then go on to say as long as they only have mediocre feats, they will be perceived as mediocre.

 

I've been asking what they have done to put them on the level of Dooku, yet you still have yet to provide any feats.

 

This is a fluff statement. How can the people in the present honestly speak on the opinion of other members of their order long dead? In other words, you can't state that he is one of the most respected and powerful in 2500 years as no one living at the time is aware of the objective amount of respect and power held by all Jedi throughout that 2500yr timespan. It's a absurd statement.

 

A more honest statement would be he was of the most respected and powerful Jedi of his time. That's the only time period anyone can judge him on practically.

 

A fluff statement? It's not the opinion of anyone, it's literally in the narration. Y'know, that omniscient guy in every EU issue (which I'm assuming you don't read, because you make absurd statements like Nox and the Wrath being more powerful than Yoda)

 

Yes, Nox is more powerful than Yoda.

 

Based on?

 

Yes, the Wrath is also more powerful than Yoda.

 

Based on??

 

And there is nothing that can be said to prove or disapprove that assertion.

 

There is, actually.

 

First of all, Yoda was stated to be the most powerful light sider in all history. This comes directly from the Star Wars Encyclopedia.

 

"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides."

 

He is also stated to be the most powerful foe darkness has ever known.

 

"This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known..."

 

He has hoisted an entire starship via the force alone.

 

"Yoda squeaked and puffed out his round cheeks with the sudden effort of using the Force to keep the Call from crushing Chuff into a grease spot on the decking bay floor. "Step back!" he barked."

 

Oh, and tough luck for Nox, considering Nox's lightning is going to be utterly, and I mean hilariously useless against Yoda, considering Yoda was absorbing the force lightning of the most powerful Sith to ever exist; Darth Sidious.

 

"The end came with astonishing suddenness. The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength."

 

 

Which brings me to another point. Malgus causes the Wrath to kneel before him with a mere gesture. A small burst of lightning and the Warrior buckles.

 

https://youtu.be/ts-ROyE2Vh0?t=1720

 

Malgus is also capable of making the sorcerer look like a joke.

 

 

And if you're going to try to say that Malgus is more powerful than either Yoda, Dooku, and Vader, then it's obvious you not only know nothing of Star Wars, but haven't picked up a single EU novel in your life. (With perhaps the exception of the "Revan" book, considering how much you **** the Old Republic.)

 

Another empty statement that has no actual substance. He is this or that because a line in a book says so? Not to mention the fact that SWTOR is not a part of that history. I'm saying Nox and Wrath are powerful because everyone they meet says so and they crush the most powerful force users under their heels and take on armies single handedly on a regular basis. Not because Bioware writers put a blurb on their webpage saying they were the best in history without any real example.

 

They crush FEATLESS, incompetent force users.

 

Ironfist from the Esseles flashpoint has supposedly "crushed" every bounty he's come across, but is easily defeated by someone more powerful than them. Like you said, it only puts them at the top of a list of scrubs.

 

You're such a hypocrite it's not even funny.

 

Now, I'm going to carefully ask you again. If you ignore every other point I've made (which you have a bad habit of doing), at LEAST address this one.

 

What have Wrath or Nox done, what FEATS do they have, to place them above Dooku or Vader?

[Karkais]

Dooku was one of the most powerful Jedi not merely of his era, but in history.

 

"He was one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, yet at the age of seventy Dooku's principles would no longer allow him to serve a Republic in which political power was for sale to the highest bidder."

 

Source: Revenge of the Sith

 

I would like to know more accurately where the quotes came from so I could find them myself, but the real issue is this:

 

You do realize that SWTOR is not part of the official canon so it is not included in the statement "in history". Therefore SWTOR characters could be vastly more powerful than those of the movies, and it would pose no contradiction to the above statement. You cannot refer to those statements in determining who is stronger. We as outsiders have to look at what the characters did OURSELVES and compare. And Vader,in particular, has done very little apart from winning Dooku.

 

Which brings me to another point. Malgus causes the Wrath to kneel before him with a mere gesture. A small burst of lightning and the Warrior buckles.

 

Yeah, and Ive killed Malgus solo. Whats your point?

Edited July 10, 2015 by Karkais

[AizaTalzin]

Honestly. I can only based my opinion on what Ive seen in this game, the movies, clone wars tv show, and rebels.

 

Vaders a chump in this fight. Bring up Padme and he'll give an awkward cry, crush a little metal, and cause a more powerful sith to simply smirk. Get him in a saber fight and he will wave it around like a robot would (i.e. Episode 4, 5, 6) and in the breif fight in rebels against Ezra and his Master, Yes he can use the force but not on the level of Nox (he couldnt even pull the saber from the boys hand in the show and it did look like Vader was struggling) His saber skills based on the Vader I have actually seen with my eyes thus far (cant assume he will or will not kick *** in rebels) cannot compare to the Wraths. Yes Vader seems to be good at deflection and opprtune attack but he is also slow and easily prone to tunnel vision (with the battle raging around him against Ezra and his Master he missed the issues with others on the field. This resulted in an escape for the Jedi and Vader nearly getting crushed by falling walkers). Yes Vader used the force to an extent to protect himself but again... Nothing compared to Noxs level. Vaders gone and out early. His mechanical suit, his very stiff fighting style, and tunnel vision of an opponent handicap him.

 

I do believe dooku poses the biggest threat. Based on the CW tv show and yes even the movie I would give him the edge in a saber figth against the Wrath (and this is coming from a player who plays a wrath). If Nox wasnt aiding the wrath and wrath had to fight dooku 1v1 Id give the edge to Dooku after one hell of an epic fight.

 

Nox changes the game all together. Yes we know dooku can use the force but Noxs power is unimaginable. The ghost and their own natural abilities? This would be a good fight between nox and dooku with Nox winning though it would not be as close as dooku over wrath.

 

Given its a 2v2 fight, Vader is a liability i.m.o. (Again this is off of what Ive actually seen (seeing is believing)).

 

Now my opinion may change if Star Wars Rebels actually lets Vader go bat **** crazy on people like I have heard people claim he does in E.U. Until then... -shrug-

[Tankdoog]

Honestly. I can only based my opinion on what Ive seen in this game, the movies, clone wars tv show, and rebels.

 

Vaders a chump in this fight. Bring up Padme and he'll give an awkward cry, crush a little metal, and cause a more powerful sith to simply smirk. Get him in a saber fight and he will wave it around like a robot would (i.e. Episode 4, 5, 6) and in the breif fight in rebels against Ezra and his Master, Yes he can use the force but not on the level of Nox (he couldnt even pull the saber from the boys hand in the show and it did look like Vader was struggling) His saber skills based on the Vader I have actually seen with my eyes thus far (cant assume he will or will not kick *** in rebels) cannot compare to the Wraths. Yes Vader seems to be good at deflection and opprtune attack but he is also slow and easily prone to tunnel vision (with the battle raging around him against Ezra and his Master he missed the issues with others on the field. This resulted in an escape for the Jedi and Vader nearly getting crushed by falling walkers). Yes Vader used the force to an extent to protect himself but again... Nothing compared to Noxs level. Vaders gone and out early. His mechanical suit, his very stiff fighting style, and tunnel vision of an opponent handicap him.

 

I do believe dooku poses the biggest threat. Based on the CW tv show and yes even the movie I would give him the edge in a saber figth against the Wrath (and this is coming from a player who plays a wrath). If Nox wasnt aiding the wrath and wrath had to fight dooku 1v1 Id give the edge to Dooku after one hell of an epic fight.

 

Nox changes the game all together. Yes we know dooku can use the force but Noxs power is unimaginable. The ghost and their own natural abilities? This would be a good fight between nox and dooku with Nox winning though it would not be as close as dooku over wrath.

 

Given its a 2v2 fight, Vader is a liability i.m.o. (Again this is off of what Ive actually seen (seeing is believing)).

 

Now my opinion may change if Star Wars Rebels actually lets Vader go bat **** crazy on people like I have heard people claim he does in E.U. Until then... -shrug-

 

Wave his saber around like a robot? His fighting style isn't stiff in the slightest.

 

Please...please read at least a single EU issue before making preposterous statements like this.

 

And yet you, just like everyone else, STILL have not listed a single reason for Nox's power being "unimaginable."

 

I'd say it's pretty damned imaginable, considering Malgus easily made Nox kneel before him.

 

Dooku vs Nox wouldn't be a good fight. Not only does Dooku have comparable (if not surpassing) power to Nox, but his martial ability with a saber is the only thing in this fight that is "unimaginable."

 

It wouldn't be an epic fight between the Wrath and Dooku either unless the Wrath simply spammed force attacks, which he doesn't do. The Wrath is notorious for engaging and beating his foes up close; and the moment he attempts to engage in saber combat with Dooku, he's going to get slaughtered.

[Tankdoog]

I would like to know more accurately where the quotes came from so I could find them myself, but the real issue is this:

 

You do realize that SWTOR is not part of the official canon so it is not included in the statement "in history". Therefore SWTOR characters could be vastly more powerful than those of the movies, and it would pose no contradiction to the above statement. You cannot refer to those statements in determining who is stronger. We as outsiders have to look at what the characters did OURSELVES and compare. And Vader,in particular, has done very little apart from winning Dooku.

 

 

 

Yeah, and Ive killed Malgus solo. Whats your point?

 

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=HiWsyea8Ay4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Page 47.

 

Moreover, the EU is no longer apart of the official canon either, which I'm almost positive the OP is referring to for this fight. The EU is the only fair version of Vader to use considering the movies of that time period were limited by their technology, and therefore couldn't show the true power of the force sensitives.

 

If we're going to use two previously non canon Old Republic fighters for this fight, then it's only fair to use the non canon versions of Dooku and Vader, considering that all four of them were canon before Disney got a hold of Star Wars.

[AizaTalzin]

Sorry but again much like science you have to see it to believe it.

 

Nox slapped away force lightening with the aid of the ghosts. Simply slapped it away as thought it were nothing more than a pesky insect. Nox took on a powerful force storm like lightening attack as though it were nothing. Nox made Thanaton her ***** and she would do the same to Dooku. Sorry but its true. I gave Dooku some credit in my first post however he still loses. No if's, and's or but's.

 

I gave the edge to Dooku against the Wrath however it would be a close fight and one for the ages.

 

As for Malgus, how many wraths and noxs solod him now? My wrath has... so... yeah.

[VigDiath]

One thing to note is that Vader and to an extent Dooku have never really faced Sith other than the Emperor. Both fought some very powerful Jedi opponents but only Dooku can really be said to have faced a powerful Sith in Darth Sidious. Even Vader never actually had the chance to face Sidious in a heads up duel. He killed him while he was distracted. That being said, no Jedi of that era save for Luke Skywalker, Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi faced a Sith opponent and lived. We know that Vader took on many Jedi, most of whom he killed. Obi-Wan defeated a Sith apprentice and Yoda defeated Count Dooku (at least made him retreat.) Luke faced both Sidious and Vader and many other Sith from the EU and lived to tell about it.

 

On the other hand, Wrath and Darth Nox have faced not only Jedi and lived to tell about it, but also other powerful Sith of their era. Actually, they have both faced some of the MOST powerful Sith of their era. Both defeated their masters and both defeated key members of the Sith council. Both faced the Dread Masters and lived to tell about it. (yeah they had help but even Vader had Stormtroopers and other agents of the Dark side at his disposal as did Dooku). Both defeated the false emperor and both defeated one of the most powerful force users ever in Darth Revan. Twice. The point is, both have experience in dealing with Sith Lords of many different calibers and have lived to tell about it. Neither Vader nor Dooku have that same experience. I think that advantage alone gives the victory to Nox and Wrath. Any dark side ability you can think of, Nox and Wrath have been able to withstand it. Vader and Dooku's powers are paltry compared to what Nox and Wrath have faced and can dish out. Now I will say this...Vader alone might be close to the same level of Darth Revan and therefore worthy of facing multiple Sith opponents and escaping alive but that's about it. I really think that people tend to overestimate Vader. All of his Jedi opponents have already lost. They were defeated by betrayal, the loss of their order, and worst of all fear. Vader won't have that advantage over full seasoned Sith who have fought the same and more powerful.

[Tankdoog]

One thing to note is that Vader and to an extent Dooku have never really faced Sith other than the Emperor. Both fought some very powerful Jedi opponents but only Dooku can really be said to have faced a powerful Sith in Darth Sidious. Even Vader never actually had the chance to face Sidious in a heads up duel. He killed him while he was distracted. That being said, no Jedi of that era save for Luke Skywalker, Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi faced a Sith opponent and lived. We know that Vader took on many Jedi, most of whom he killed. Obi-Wan defeated a Sith apprentice and Yoda defeated Count Dooku (at least made him retreat.) Luke faced both Sidious and Vader and many other Sith from the EU and lived to tell about it.

 

On the other hand, Wrath and Darth Nox have faced not only Jedi and lived to tell about it, but also other powerful Sith of their era. Actually, they have both faced some of the MOST powerful Sith of their era. Both defeated their masters and both defeated key members of the Sith council. Both faced the Dread Masters and lived to tell about it. (yeah they had help but even Vader had Stormtroopers and other agents of the Dark side at his disposal as did Dooku). Both defeated the false emperor and both defeated one of the most powerful force users ever in Darth Revan. Twice. The point is, both have experience in dealing with Sith Lords of many different calibers and have lived to tell about it. Neither Vader nor Dooku have that same experience. I think that advantage alone gives the victory to Nox and Wrath. Any dark side ability you can think of, Nox and Wrath have been able to withstand it. Vader and Dooku's powers are paltry compared to what Nox and Wrath have faced and can dish out. Now I will say this...Vader alone might be close to the same level of Darth Revan and therefore worthy of facing multiple Sith opponents and escaping alive but that's about it. I really think that people tend to overestimate Vader. All of his Jedi opponents have already lost. They were defeated by betrayal, the loss of their order, and worst of all fear. Vader won't have that advantage over full seasoned Sith who have fought the same and more powerful.

 

Except you're forgetting one crucial thing. A vast majority of Sith Nox and Wrath have faced are featless.

 

That's like saying because Vader has never faced an Echani warrior, he wouldn't be able to defeat one in combat.

 

The number of actually competent force users in the TOR era is so scarce that you could count them on your hands. Moreover, Vader still has experience against Sith. He has fought Asajj Ventress multiple times and has beaten her, Dooku, Starkiller, General Greivous (Although technically not a Sith), Savage Oppress, Darth Maul, and Sidious.

 

He has more than enough experience against force users to laugh at Nox and the Wrath.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Tankdoog