Darth Vader and Darth Tyranus vs Darth Nox and Emperor's Wrath

[wrathofabeloth]

Which team would win?

[Jake_Chambers]

Team 1

[JamagsAwesome]

That depends. If it's a duel in an empty room, Nox and the Wrath would utterly curbstomp the other two. The Wrath is what Vader would be if he weren't slowed down by cybernetics, while Nox is vastly more powerful than Dooku, and probably at least a competent duelist.

 

If we're talking starfighter battle? Vader wins by default.

 

If you mean Kaggath-style all-out war, that's actually a close fight. Nox and Vader are both brilliant strategists, while Dooku and the Wrath would make effective field commanders. Fleet-wise, the Death Star and the Silencer are probably about matched, but if Vader could get the Death Star to Nox's home planet (let's say Vader and Dooku are working from Coruscant while Nox and the Wrath are working from DK), it's all over. Boom.

 

Oh, wait. It's Nox. Nevermind, he/she's just crazy. Imperius is weak. Occlus is the real evil mastermind.

[MadDutchman]

Ya, empty room fight, vader and dooku would get owned.

 

The way I'd see it go is:

Blast of lightning from Nox knocking Vader out of the fight right out of the gate while Wrath leaps in and starts dueling Dooku.

Blast of lightning from Nox against Dooku, which he probably could deflect, allowing the wrath to lazily decapitate him.

[AKHadeed]

Darth Imperius has the best hair. She wins.

[Miyran]

Yeah... Vader (whilst being an immense individual) fails hard against anyone who has a mastery of Force Lightning. That's what kept him in check with Sidious all those years.

 

Nox = Nuke 'em Force artillery

Wrath = Menacingly quick mop up.

[Rhyltran]

Yeah... Vader (whilst being an immense individual) fails hard against anyone who has a mastery of Force Lightning. That's what kept him in check with Sidious all those years.

 

Nox = Nuke 'em Force artillery

Wrath = Menacingly quick mop up.

 

No it didn't. Vader's suit was designed to resist force lightning and it was highly resistant to it. The EU sums that up nicely and it's stated a few times. He even upgraded his suit to deal with it even better. Darth Sidious force lightning was so powerful it could disintegrate people when it was fully amped up. He couldn't withstand Sidious' force lightning directly because it was the most powerful force lightning in the history of star wars and even then he survived it long enough to toss Sidious down a reactor.

 

Furthermore Vader is being vastly underestimated here. He was able to force crush an AT-AT while lifting it over his head with a single hand, rather effortlessly. That was his force power. Battle wise he fought multiple jedi masters and 9 Jedi who ambushed him while casually taking them down. He actually became better than he was as Anakin pre-suit. The only problem was he could have become even greater than that but due to what happened to him he fell short of his true potential. Nevertheless, he was still a better duelist than anakin and had more raw power by the time of Empire Strikes Back.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Miyran]

No it didn't. Vader's suit was designed to resist force lightning and it was highly resistant to it. The EU sums that up nicely and it's stated a few times. He even upgraded his suit to deal with it even better. Darth Sidious force lightning was so powerful it could disintegrate people when it was fully amped up. He couldn't withstand Sidious' force lightning directly because it was the most powerful force lightning in the history of star wars and even then he survived it long enough to toss Sidious down a reactor.

 

Furthermore Vader is being vastly underestimated here. He was able to force crush an AT-AT while lifting it over his head with a single hand, rather effortlessly. That was his force power. Battle wise he fought multiple jedi masters and 9 Jedi who ambushed him while casually taking them down. He actually became better than he was as Anakin pre-suit. The only problem was he could have become even greater than that but due to what happened to him he fell short of his true potential. Nevertheless, he was still a better duelist than anakin and had more raw power by the time of Empire Strikes Back.

 

 

SOME resistance was developed. But his cybernetics (chest rig) was weak against extreme Force Lightning. That's what basically killed him in the end.

[Rhyltran]

SOME resistance was developed. But his cybernetics (chest rig) was weak against extreme Force Lightning. That's what basically killed him in the end.

 

No it wasn't. It withstood a full blast from starkiller. Extreme force lightning is an understatement when it comes to Sidious and we don't have the numbers to suggest that Nox comes anywhere close to that.

[Excise]

No it didn't. Vader's suit was designed to resist force lightning and it was highly resistant to it. The EU sums that up nicely and it's stated a few times. He even upgraded his suit to deal with it even better. Darth Sidious force lightning was so powerful it could disintegrate people when it was fully amped up. He couldn't withstand Sidious' force lightning directly because it was the most powerful force lightning in the history of star wars and even then he survived it long enough to toss Sidious down a reactor.

 

I dunno, Luke managed to come out of that same Force Lightning a-ok and all he had was a black turtleneck to protect himself.

[Rhyltran]

I dunno, Luke managed to come out of that same Force Lightning a-ok and all he had was a black turtleneck to protect himself.

 

Palpatine was torturing him. It was amped up after Vader grabbed him. That being said, I do think Wrath and Nox would win. I just don't think it's a stomp as many people think.

[MWidowmaker]

Wrath is considered the best lightsaber duelist in the galaxy, there is no way Dooku would stand toe to to with Wrath, even as good as he is for too long. Nox and Vader would be very close but Vader gets overpowered eventually once the Wrath finishes Dooku. Everyone underestimates the force power Wrath has. remember Alderaan.

[mynxvablid]

I agree that Dooku and Vader are being underestimated.

 

Dooku is a form 2 master, a style that specializes in Saber to Saber combat. That and his mastery over the Force would allow him to hold his own against Nox or the Wrath. Also, he's a brilliant strategist, so he wouldn't be caught without a trick or two up his sleeve. Only a handful of Force users were his equal or better: Yoda, Anakin, and the Emperor.

 

Vader is a form 5 master who even developed his own one handed variant that incorporated elements of Form 2 & Form 3 into a very intimidating and powerful style. While he may have been inhibited some with his cybernetics in what he could do with the force, the cybernetics themselves allowed him to make up the difference. He could cast Force Lightning, but the Cybernetics would short out. His armor was specifically designed to enhance his augmented strength he gained from the cybernetics. He wasn't clumsy or slow. He was actually quite agile once he got used to the cybernetics. Combine all that with the wisdom of age, and you have a very powerful foe to go against. Personally, I think he would be able to wipe the floor with the Wrath, and ***** slap Nox into submission.

[LordAbbendis]

No it wasn't. It withstood a full blast from starkiller. Extreme force lightning is an understatement when it comes to Sidious and we don't have the numbers to suggest that Nox comes anywhere close to that.

 

YOu are incorrect, his suit was resistent not immune. Vader was extremely weak to force lightning.

[ReiKai]

I agree that Dooku and Vader are being underestimated.

*shortening*

 

Of course, can't agree on everything being said. For one thing, Force Abilities took a back seat in the PT and OT era. Dooku and Vader had no real esoteric force abilities to speak of. They could resist Force Drain and minor mental manipulation, but that's as far as they went. Melee combat was the bigger focus during that time. However, during the KotoR/SWTOR Era, both Force Powers and Melee skills were in high demand and necessary. Because we're forced to extract what we can from the Game worlds themselves, we won't get specifics like we would in Novels. However there are some things we can draw conclusions from within the story and gameplay of SWTOR.

 

Vader didn't make a new form, so much as adapt them because of his restricted mobility. He still primarily uses Djem So to overpower his opponents, utilizing his cybernetically augmented strength. However, Vader is restricted to 3 basic forms of attack;

1) Telekinesis

2) Saber Combat

3) Mind Tricks

 

Of these, his only notable advantage is pure TK over the Wrath. We can infer the Wrath is his basic equal in saber combat. We can also infer that the Wrath isn't limited by Class Selection. There is in reality no reason for the Wrath not to learn both paths since there is nothing in the story elements restricting such. As we've seen, even Darth Bane who was primarily a warrior type and focused more on pure brute force, still had sorcerer tendencies and learned a degree of Force Rituals. As such, there's no reason to believe the Wrath would be limited to only Juggernaut or Marauder skills. How one fights can depend on the situation.

 

We've certainly seen Anakin use the Jar-Kai dual-blade style of fighting, despite being more adept in single-saber combat. So we can be certain the Wrath can switch between a single and dual-sabers, depending on how he wishes to fight, and has all of the appropriate skills from the trees as you'd expect. As such, this does show that the Wrath has more options in Force abilities than Vader. Also, looking between Juggernaut and Marauder, the Wrath has mastered up to 5 Lightsaber forms; Juyo, Shii-Cho, Ataru, Shien and Soresu. While I won't say the Wrath is the best duelist in SWTOR, he is in the top 10 I would say. Having to compete with both the Hero of Tython and Revan, who would pimpsmack Vader and the Wrath both at the same time.

 

If you wanted the fight to align up with Vader vs Wrath and Dooku vs Nox, then Vader is still at a disadvantage. Of his 3 attack variations, 2 of them are effectively nullified. According to Master Yonlach on Tatooine, attempting mind tricks and mental abilities on the Wrath would be a futile effort. And this is a guy who turned and mind-wiped a fellow master Jedi. TK can be blocked and the Wrath is exceptionally powerful with some kind of link to Vitiate that hasn't been fully explored yet. While Vader most certainly has better TK feats in and of themselves, the Wrath has more varied and usable offensive Force Powers he can bring to the table.

 

Overall, Vader will end up stuck in a saber fight with the Wrath and I'd say it's 50/50 if things were just about that. Unfortunately, as noted, the Wrath has other force abilities he can pull out. Wrath has that 4th option of using more esoteric type Force abilities that Vader can't readily defend himself against because they're not something he's had to deal with before. Given that, Vader is at a disadvantage regardless of how he fights. Saying he is older and has more experience doesn't work so well, when the Wrath had to face a wider variety of enemies and was more openly engaged in the War than Vader had been in his time.

 

The same can be said for the Heir of Kallig. Or Nox for this matchup. Nox would have both Sorcerer and Assassin abilities and skills since there really is no Story driven reason to restrict them. And it shouldn't really need to be said, but Nox's force abilities utterly dwarf Dooku's and Vader's. If we follow the track that says that the Heir has rivaled her predecessors, Tulak Hord and Aloysius Kallig, then her abilities are rather significant. If we include what Khem-Val has said, it would place her above even Vader's TK feats. As Khem says on Taris, that he once witnessed Tulak Hord pulling down a ship of the same size as the Brental Star. While it's certainly no Star Destroyer, it's still quite significant.

 

Overall, Dooku and Vader just can't match up to these two. I would even argue that Nox could solo the both of them.

[JamagsAwesome]

Alright. I think Vader could probably put up a reasonable fight against either of them, and Dooku could beat the Wrath. So, if it's Wrath vs. Dooku and Nox vs. Vader, Dooku kills the Wrath, and helps Vader put Nox down. If they swap opponents, Nox is much more powerful than Dooku and a reasonably accomplished duelist, so that's not even a challenge.

 

As for Vader vs. Wrath? It's tough. Vader has more raw power, but the Wrath, going from cutscenes and the movies, is visibly faster, and employs roughly equivalent skill in dueling and specific Force abilities.

 

Overall, I'd still probably give the ground combat win to Nox and Wrath.

[Canareth]

Wrath is considered the best lightsaber duelist in the galaxy, there is no way Dooku would stand toe to to with Wrath, even as good as he is for too long. Nox and Vader would be very close but Vader gets overpowered eventually once the Wrath finishes Dooku. Everyone underestimates the force power Wrath has. remember Alderaan.

 

People also seem to be forgetting what happened when Nox goes up against Thanaton. Thanaton is an extraordinarily potent Force user in the grand scheme of things. Not the strongest on the Dark Council (which says something right there) but those aren't his competition here. He's a Darth with decades of study and practice in Sith magic who has had to beat off all sorts of other comers with a stick to get to where he is.

 

His fight with Nox is not close. It's more SPLAT.

 

 

Dooku was renowned among the PT Jedi - and none of them would last five seconds against Nox. Dooku may be exceptional with a lightsaber but that's not how Nox fights. Nox is a sorcerer, first and foremost regardless of player advanced class choice. There's no one like that in the PT/OT era besides Sidious.

 

I don't think Tyranus or Vader could scratch Nox. Both of them together probably couldn't beat him.

 

The Wrath is more straightforward. Vader was supposed to be among the greatest Sith ever but then he got maimed. That expressly cost him a great deal of his ability. The Wrath is in fit fighting trim.

 

Swapping opponents - Dooku can beat the Wrath, he's widely considered one of the most dangerous saberists to have ever lived and knows enough Force to keep up with someone who has full Old Sith knowledge exposure. Reasonably fair fight. I don't know what the heck Vader can to do Nox though. He's never seen anything like that.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Canareth

[ReiKai]

The Wrath is more straightforward. Vader was supposed to be among the greatest Sith ever but then he got maimed. That expressly cost him a great deal of his ability. The Wrath is in fit fighting trim.

 

Swapping opponents - Dooku can beat the Wrath, he's widely considered one of the most dangerous saberists to have ever lived and knows enough Force to keep up with someone who has full Old Sith knowledge exposure. Reasonably fair fight. I don't know what the heck Vader can to do Nox though. He's never seen anything like that.

 

I can't really agree with that assessment. It's also not possible for Dooku and co to have full knowledge of all Ancient Sith and such because of the constant loss and destruction of such information that occurs rather regularly in the SWU. Hardly more than Revan's name and some snippets of info remained from that Era when Bane was in training on Korriban. And we see in "Knight Errant" just how much knowledge has been lost and destroyed, and had to be re-learned because of the constant galaxy-breaking wars.

 

As such, Dooku's knowledge of ancient sith lore is extremely limited. Even in the KotoR comics we see a lot of ancient Sith artifacts and such being destroyed outright in an explosion, and they were being secretly studied by a group of Jedi acting without knowledge of the Jedi High Council. There really isn't any way for Dooku to be on the same page as the Wrath when it comes to ancient Sith knowledge, as the Wrath comes from such a family that survived the Great Hyperspace War.

 

To that end, if this was solely a battle of saber skills, I would be forced to agree that Dooku has the more legitimate and noteworthy feats from the EU. However it isn't, and the Wrath isn't exactly inept in saber combat. Aside from TK and straight lightning, Dooku has no real offensive powers he can use. The Wrath has several he can utilize, including TK variances and minor lightning-based abilities. Overall the Wrath has a broader set of abilities and skills he can draw on. As I had said earlier, Dooku can resist things like Force Draining. However the Wrath has abilities beyond that, things Dooku can't just block or counter.

 

The original premise of the Sith Warrior was based off of Darth Vader. Essentially, the Wrath is what Darth Vader could've become without his mental or physical restrictions. And with more access to Sith knowledge and powers that just weren't available to him.

[Nazgren]

The SI would most certainly curb stomp both. This isn't up for debate. He has not only his already considerable force powers, but the force power of 5-6 others too. Without force Walking Dooku would probably be the SI's equal, but absolutely not with force walking. With force walking the SI would probably whip out his ghosts and thundering blast them through a street block before they had a chance to pull out their lightsabers. As for Emperors Wrath, it's hard to say. Vader is an accomplished Jedi hunter with hundreds of kills under his belt and enough toys in his suit to make even iron man jealous, but he has also been curb stomped himself on more then one occasion often comically one sided in favour of the Jedi. He had to be entirely rebuilt more then once. His armour and skill are the big things here. Just before Luke has his spectacular daddy issues moment, he performs a crushing, over shoulder slam of his lightsabers into Vader and only P****s him off, Vader then decides stop toying with him and relives him of a hand. Luke was never a match for Vader, Luke only wins because Vader can't bring himself to kill his son. Even so, Vader has lost more fights then the wrath, so I'm gonna have to lean wrath here. I guess it's a win for the SI and the wrath. Edited June 26, 2015 by Nazgren

[Asturias]

No Force user in the Old Republic era compare to the Vader/Luke era, end of story.

 

I like to point out the Force was so unbalanced in favor of the Dark side that the Prophecy came true which resulted in eradicating both Light and Dark side Force users bringing balance to the Living Force.

 

Vader is poorly underestimated by a lot of you, not only on his martial skills but his connection to the Force and his power.

 

Also what you see in the old movies compared too today's movies is not a fair comparison of the iconic character Darth Vader.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Asturias

[ForiDani]

Vader vs Wrath could possibly be a draw and Nox would probably beat Dookoo. I don't think Vader could 2v1 after that, because he would not be able to withstand all the lighting of Nox with the Wrath's onslaught.

As I see it Dookoo is an older individual who only mastered 1 lightsaber style and has some decent force powers and while he might be one of the best duelists of his time in that time there was relative peace and jedi were peacekeepers and not warriors (keep in mind that Dookoo probably still gets owned by Yoda, Mace and eventually Anakin who were the two who were actually very capable duelists).

Compare that to the Wrath and Nox who were among the most proficient sith in a time where both the jedi and the sith were actual warriors. Then you have Vader who is incredibly powerful, but a younger and less limited opponent who has dueled tons of sith and jedi in his time like the Wrath could probably survive Vader's attacks and retaliate. When Dookoo is defeated Nox joins the fight and they can overwhelm Vader. Vader is also pretty vulnerable to lighting and while he has ways around that (blocking with lightsaber and some build-in defense) I believe that Nox's lighting is powerful enough to go trough the armor and Vader would have no chance to defend himself with the Wrath just going crazy on him.

[Nazgren]

As has been stated, the SI would make a mockery of Vader because Vader has virtually no defence against lightning short of his lightsaber. He was not resistant to it as some suggest because why the hell would sidious make Vader resistant to his best method of controlling him. Vader would never be required to kill a sith, so why make him resistant to lightning, it would literally only work against sidious, who isn't that stupid. After this Dooku would drop as he would likely be beaten by either 1v1, but 2v1? Not a hope In hell. But I stand by my original point. With the force spirits, the SI would thundering blast both through the wall as soon as the fight began. His force ability is that of 6 powerful force wielding entities, whereas Vader and Dooku are both just one each. Hell, the SI could just use the force to disarm them and there would be nothing that either could do about it. Imagine the force power of Anakin, Dooku, Sidious, Yoda, pre redemption Revan and, some other powerful force wielder all rolled into one neat little bundle of "UNLIMITED POWER!" and you basically have what the SI has become when he calls upon the spirits. He brings a dark councillor to his knees with no effort on his part. I don't believe either Dooku or vaders abilities in the force are above the level of a swtor dark councillor. Edited June 27, 2015 by Nazgren

[TigerClaww]

vader and dooku win vader is the most powerful force user other then luke even if he never reached his potential because of the suit dooku is the best lightsaber duelist of his generation and with all those years between era's he should be equal if not better then the wrath. then there's vader who doesn't lose a lightsaber battle other then to obi wan when he was over confident. if its power bases then vader and dooku win by even more the empire and cis behind them not to mention sidious

[mynxvablid]

Overall, Dooku and Vader just can't match up to these two. I would even argue that Nox could solo the both of them.

 

I have to disagree with this assessment. Vader, at the time of his death in Return of the Jedi, was in his late 40s to early 50s. He had been taken in by the Jedi and trained in the Jedi arts at the age of 9. The Wrath begins trained as a Sith in adulthood, with little known force training prior to arriving on Korriban. Vader had been exposed to combat and warfare nearly all of his life after leaving Tattooine with Qui Gon and Obi Wan. Given that the Wrath is possibly in his 20s, Vader has double the lifetime combat experience, and I'm being conservative in that estimate. In addition, Vader's style was a form 5 variant, as I tried to explain before, that incorporated aspects of Form 2 and Form 3 in order to strengthen his defensive techniques. It was also an intimidation factor to use his saber one handed, but he would switch to two handed when he needed to. His style would later be picked up by Luke, and would later be taught as the "Heavy Style" in the New Republic Era of Jedi by Luke.

 

Just because Vader uses form 5, doesn't mean that's the only one he knows about. He was trained by Obi wan, a form 3 master and sokan master, Incorporated form 2 techniques he learned while dueling Dooku, and used Ataru and Jar Kai against Dooku during the duel on Geonosis. By himself, he has knowledge and training in the primary forms 2, 3, 4, & 5, plus training in the secondary forms of Sokan and jar Kai. Plus, you could add Niman, or form 6, into that list since some sources say that NIman is a prerequisite to learning Jar Kai.

 

As for Dooku, he was already up in years and already a highly respected Jedi Master before becoming the Emperor's apprentice. Some of the books describe his mastery of lightsaber combat to be nearly unequalled except by Mace Windu and Yoda. His knowledge of the force and force techniques was second only to Yoda and the Emperor. Granted, I don't like Dooku that much, but I give credit where it's due. I think he's seriously being underestimated.

 

Now, I'm not saying it will be an easy fight. Don't get me wrong. I do think that the combined knowledge and experience of Both Vader and Dooku give them an edge over Nox and the Wrath. Yes, Nox and the Wrath have seen a lot of combat, but Vader and Dooku's experience outshines theirs by far. Especially Vader's combat experience which is more than Nox and the Wrath combined. What Nox and the Wrath have on their side is raw talent, which doesn't win fights on their own. Vader himself has faced numerous force users, each one with great raw power in the force, and many of them with training. He still defeated them.

[ReiKai]

I have to disagree with this assessment.

 

Actually, the Wrath was born into a Sith family and was trained for combat since he was very young. He just wasn't sent to Korriban until later, and as we heard, he was brought there prematurely. Yet he still surpassed all expectations and become more powerful than other Acolytes who'd been there for years. I never said Vader wasn't experienced, but the Wrath was taking on people more experienced and older than himself pretty much every single day. Which included the guy who brought him to the Sith Academy to begin with, who had been teaching there for well over a decade.

 

The thing about Vader, as I had said, was that he had to adapt because of his physical limitations. Never claimed he was a poor duelist. Only said that it was his primary means of fighting besides TK. The Wrath is by no means a pushover and the growth of his abilities in just a few short years is staggering compared to Vader who took decades to reach the levels we see him at. Also, Vader really only killed Jedi who all essentially had the same powersets as each other. There was really no variation and none of them were really noteworthy. The Wrath has dealt with an equal number of Jedi, and took out other Sith Lords. Including Darth Baras, who was said to be nearly physically invulnerable.

 

As far as Dooku and the dueling skills, the main issue arises when each author has their own set of opinons and doesn't consider the rest of the canon, or anything prior to the era they're writing in. Dooku could be one of the best of his era. But that's generally meaningless since the same words have been said about a lot of figures in SW, from as fart back as the "Tales of the Jedi" series all the way through the Legacy Series. Thoughts of superiority based on that line of lone is ultimately meaningless. Heck, Revan was flat out stated to be the greatest duelist of his era, which includes survivors of the Sith War against Exar Kun. Yet many people still hate Revan and claim he's a sub-par duelist, despite him being completely undefeated in that area.

 

Again, for experience, Vader and Dooku primarily fought and killed the same group of people. Primarily the same people over and over again. There was no variety and then Vader spent 20yrs hunting wookiees and rebels with barely an encounter with anyone remotely powerful. The only time in the EU that Vader ever fought anyone from a previous era was when they discovered Celeste Morne in stasis who'd been given repeating nightmares of the worst day of her life repeatedly for the last 3900yrs. Woke up screaming and fought Vader. He wins (obviously, otherwise bye-bye movie canon), but not easily.

 

Then she gets sent to go kill Luke, and she beats him rather easily, but doesn't kill him and eventually gains control of her senses that were being twisted by the Muur Talisman. She then gives Vader a big FU by using it to turn the entire crew of his Star Destroyer into Rakghouls. Heck, Celeste I'd say ends up better than Vader after sticking around for another 100yrs into the Legacy era and smoking Darth Krayt. But that's another story.

 

Point being, people widely underestimate the Jedi/Sith of earlier eras. By a huge margin. Knowledge and Force abilities were a lot more widely available and prevalent during these eras, unlike the PT era where the primary focus was apparently saber combat and TK. Which makes sense as a vast majority of knowledge and lore had been lost over the millennia due to the constant wars against not just sith but other darkside adepts and the like.

 

Back on the experience thing. Yes, Vader and Dooku are both older and Vader had more time in war. But neither had to deal with the sheer variety and scope of enemies that Nox and the Wrath had to. I can honestly say that neither of them would be able to keep from $hitting themselves at the sight of Soa the Infernal One or the Terror from Beyond.Granted these two didn't face these beasts alone, but they have had to face people and beings of far superior power before and still come out alive. Malgus, Revan, the Dread Masters, and so much more. Could you honestly say that Dooku and Vader could compare against these forces, where it took Wrath and the Heir and more to face them?

 

Malgus was already pretty much Vader without the physical restrictions. Malgus could lift and crush buildings, throw off a mountain of rubble, and walked through Force Lightning to choke another Sith Lord to death. Barehanded. Malgus was the Vader of his era and was a powerful duelist, as well as being incredibly powerful in the Force, with the added benefit of being able to use Force Lightning. Which Vader cannot use because of his mechanical limbs. And Malgus can be said to have even more experience in battle than Vader and Dooku.

 

We cannot shake off the fact that, while saying that Nox's/Wrath overall experience is lesser, than they're not more dangerous. Their advancement and growth in ability was staggering. In 3yrs they basically went from nameless apprentices to two of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy. They had both learned from the Tomb of Tulak Hord, who was regarded as the greatest duelist to ever exist. The Heir even finds a tablet describing the teachings and methods of saber combat by Tulak Hord within the secret library of Darth Thanaton. The scope of Lore/Knowledge that the Heir of Kallig has access to completely dwarfs everything Dooku had ever learned.

 

Heck, going back, what Darth Revan could impart from his Holocron in 2 weeks to Darth Bane was more substantial than everything contained within the libraries of Korriban during the reign of Kaan's Army of Darkness. Of which even much of that knowledge was lost when Bane died and Zannah was only ever given certain pieces. Rituals and the like that Bane himself could never master. Of course the Rule of 2 was intended to pass on everything. But we know from experience that doesn't always happen or always work out. And we're well aware that Sidious never intended to have anyone surpass him.