Pirindolo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) When the hell are they they going to separate the PVP abilities from PVE abilities, for once and for all? Patch notes here Every round of major changes (nerfs) to PVE players have the same cause: PVP. Edited June 4, 2015 by Pirindolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urantia Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 When the hell are they they going to separate the PVP abilities from PVE abilities, for once and for all? Patch notes here Every round of major changes (nerfs) to PVE players have the same cause: PVP. Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 But they said they wanted to increase Sorcerer options for burst healing the last time they tried to pull this stunt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iffyluse Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Will people stop with sensationalist thread names. Where are the nerfs? Scoundrel healer seems to be buffed which im happy about, commando med shot nerf isnt a big deal considering it's a filler resource management ability anyway and your job as commando is to burst heal not to top people off with med shot. Medical probe seems to be a bit weaker now but has higher crit. Good. Commando is all about crits, not raw power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalmeseReb Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Will people stop with sensationalist thread names. Where are the nerfs? Scoundrel healer seems to be buffed which im happy about, commando med shot nerf isnt a big deal considering it's a filler resource management ability anyway and your job as commando is to burst heal not to top people off with med shot. Medical probe seems to be a bit weaker now but has higher crit. Good. Commando is all about crits, not raw power. You're not familiar with the classes at all if you don't see the nerfs. they're huge for commando. They're taking away crit healing from AMP and hammer shots is an important heal for commandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iffyluse Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) You're not familiar with the classes at all if you don't see the nerfs. they're huge for commando. They're taking away crit healing from AMP and hammer shots is an important heal for commandos. Yeah, just ignore the buffs to medical probe Edited June 4, 2015 by Iffyluse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 You're not familiar with the classes at all if you don't see the nerfs. they're huge for commando. They're taking away crit healing from AMP and hammer shots is an important heal for commandos. Skimming the patch notes, it looks like they are mostly swapping AMP with regular MP for Commandos. However, I am not the greatest Commando healer there is (I was pretty good, but I haven't played it much since 3.0, and I sort of started to like the visual effects on Gunnery abilities, so I might respec to that completely) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yeah, just ignore the buffs to medical probe so a buff to a little heal compensates a nerf to the big, strongest and absolute key heal of the class? Then everyone will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iffyluse Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 so a buff to a little heal compensates a nerf to the big, strongest and absolute key heal of the class? Then everyone will be happy. You mean a nerf to the most versatile and optimal healing class of the game that's ahead of others? Surely this is a black day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 You mean a nerf to the most versatile and optimal healing class of the game that's ahead of others? Surely this is a black day. Aha, so you now admit that there is a nerf. That's good. Alll the healing classes are going to get some changes for good, and some for bad. But overall, all healing classes will be nerfed. Mercenary/commando is clearly nerfed. The difference between a sage/sorcerer healing style and a mercenary/commando healing style is going to be minimum now. Sages get a boost in their heals, at the expense of huge energy costs (in some cases 50% more than now). Operative Scoundrel is maybe the least nerfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Nerfed healing! YAY. finally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iffyluse Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Aha, so you now admit that there is a nerf. That's good. Alll the healing classes are going to get some changes for good, and some for bad. But overall, all healing classes will be nerfed. Mercenary/commando is clearly nerfed. The difference between a sage/sorcerer healing style and a mercenary/commando healing style is going to be minimum now. Sages get a boost in their heals, at the expense of huge energy costs (in some cases 50% more than now). Operative Scoundrel is maybe the least nerfed I never said commando wasn't nerfed, I said I didn't see what the big deal was. I don't see where the scoundrel "nerf" is though. UWM buffed, scan is mobile, kolto pack burst buff, passive healings increased from 3% to 5% , set bonus buff. All you see is something something "reduced" and start crying over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Nerfed healing! YAY. finally! "Finally?" I'd say "again" instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I never said commando wasn't nerfed, I said I didn't see what the big deal was. I don't see where the scoundrel "nerf" is though. UWM buffed, scan is mobile, kolto pack burst buff, passive healings increased from 3% to 5% , set bonus buff. All you see is something something "reduced" and start crying over it. You are losing the main point of my OP. PVP problems should never affect PVE. So sadly, it doesn't mater if PVE is balanced or not. It doesn't matter if a particular class is overpowered or underpowered in PVE. What only matters is that if a change is required to PVP, they will make that change, whatever the cost or the unbalance it brings to PVE. Edited June 4, 2015 by Pirindolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Will people stop with sensationalist thread names. Where are the nerfs? Scoundrel healer seems to be buffed which im happy about, commando med shot nerf isnt a big deal considering it's a filler resource management ability anyway and your job as commando is to burst heal not to top people off with med shot. Medical probe seems to be a bit weaker now but has higher crit. Good. Commando is all about crits, not raw power. It's funny how you ask where are the nerfs and then only describe the changes to two of the classes and leaving out the third that is actually getting nerfed. Clearly the real nerf is for the sorc/sage healers. Whether or not you agree with the nerf but reduced energy regeneration and increased skill costs (even with higher heal output) clearly makes the sorc healer really have to change their rotation. I won't say I will have to relearn my class entirely but I do see this: The sorc/sage currently has the easiest force management. Objectively that has to be the conclusion, as long as you have the set bonuses. We are now moving the class to being a lot less forgiving in that area. The force you gain back at most is 10% of your total but has a casting time of 2 seconds. Basically you'll get just enough to cast one heal skill again and more importantly it's your only way of regaining force. You see, I also have merc and operative healers (and rep versions) and both those classes have a "oh ****" skill to save them with a good chunk of energy being given back in one shot, just with a fairly long CD so you can't use it too often. The sorc will not get this clearly. Take the merc for example, it has the help we're screwed skill, has a costless skill that helps reduce energy and can build up 10 stacks that can be converted in regaining energy or reducing heat as per the class. Basically 3 methods of helping with energy management. The sorc has one. Add to that the squishiness sorcs have in pve content and I will be very interested to see how this is going to work out as far as people liking to play the class. I really think that what the sorc will need is one of those "oh ****" skills for those unexpected moments and then we see it again....we are making classes more alike again, losing the flavour as they crunch numbers. Does BW get it's not just about the numbers but also about enjoying the way a class works and what makes it special? I also worry about the burst heal capabilities when energy management is done by a 2 second cast that allows you to cast 1 skill again, because that's what it's going to be if you are ever low on energy (dps causes healing grief, you got killed and ressed, etc). Will the sorc be able to get him/herself out of that hole with this 2 second cast skill? Not convinced at the moment. Edited June 4, 2015 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It doesn't matter if a particular class is overpowered or underpowered in PVE It actually does matter a lot. Because if say Sniper is overpowered, why would you take Mercenary or Sorcerer DPS? Sucks for Merc/Sorc players, doesn't it? History proves this is a fact, there were times where ops teams only took Snipers as rDPS if they could get them, Mercs and Sorcs were always the last ones to be picked, regardless their skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 It actually does matter a lot. Because if say Sniper is overpowered, why would you take Mercenary or Sorcerer DPS? Sucks for Merc/Sorc players, doesn't it? History proves this is a fact, there were times where ops teams only took Snipers as rDPS if they could get them, Mercs and Sorcs were always the last ones to be picked, regardless their skill I will say it more clearly: Devs at EAware don't care if a class is overpowered or underpowered in PVE when they are considering to make changes. They only care about unbalances in PVP. That's the meaning of my comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 When the hell are they they going to separate the PVP abilities from PVE abilities, for once and for all? Never, it would be too much work, it would be like maintaining two games. Every round of major changes (nerfs) to PVE players have the same cause: PVP. If thinking it's all PvPs fault helps you sleep better at night, you go on thinking that. All classes have targets to meet, if they are exceeding them, even in PvE, they are going to get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It actually does matter a lot. Because if say Sniper is overpowered, why would you take Mercenary or Sorcerer DPS? Sucks for Merc/Sorc players, doesn't it? History proves this is a fact, there were times where ops teams only took Snipers as rDPS if they could get them, Mercs and Sorcs were always the last ones to be picked, regardless their skill That's more of a problem when you run with random elitist snobs who very stupidly don't care about the skill of the player or other intelligent qualifiers like gear, experience (run this op before or not), etc. There will always be the flavor of the month for simple and/or elitists who want to 'theoretically' be the 'best' despite that to be the best with a class/role you need to put in the time to master it not just show up in the same outfit like the best. TLDR: Putting on a pair of air jordan's never made anyone play like mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iffyluse Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It's funny how you ask where are the nerfs and then only describe the changes to two of the classes and leaving out the third that is actually getting nerfed. Clearly the real nerf is for the sorc/sage healers. Whether or not you agree with the nerf but reduced energy regeneration and increased skill costs (even with higher heal output) clearly makes the sorc healer really have to change their rotation. I won't say I will have to relearn my class entirely but I do see this: The sorc/sage currently has the easiest force management. Objectively that has to be the conclusion, as long as you have the set bonuses. We are now moving the class to being a lot less forgiving in that area. The force you gain back at most is 10% of your total but has a casting time of 2 seconds. Basically you'll get just enough to cast one heal skill again and more importantly it's your only way of regaining force. You see, I also have merc and operative healers (and rep versions) and both those classes have a "oh ****" skill to save them with a good chunk of energy being given back in one shot, just with a fairly long CD so you can't use it too often. The sorc will not get this clearly. Take the merc for example, it has the help we're screwed skill, has a costless skill that helps reduce energy and can build up 10 stacks that can be converted in regaining energy or reducing heat as per the class. Basically 3 methods of helping with energy management. The sorc has one. Add to that the squishiness sorcs have in pve content and I will be very interested to see how this is going to work out as far as people liking to play the class. I really think that what the sorc will need is one of those "oh ****" skills for those unexpected moments and then we see it again....we are making classes more alike again, losing the flavour as they crunch numbers. Does BW get it's not just about the numbers but also about enjoying the way a class works and what makes it special? I also worry about the burst heal capabilities when energy management is done by a 2 second cast that allows you to cast 1 skill again, because that's what it's going to be if you are ever low on energy (dps causes healing grief, you got killed and ressed, etc). Will the sorc be able to get him/herself out of that hole with this 2 second cast skill? Not convinced at the moment. I see what you're saying, It's just I don't have a sage healer so I didn't want to comment on something I'm not familiar with. The thread was directed at all the healers so I adressed the 2 of them that I'm actually playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Never, it would be too much work, it would be like maintaining two game. Not at all. just add a tab to create new PVP abilities for PVP zones / servers, and leave PVE ones as they are. If thinking it's all PvPs fault helps you sleep better at night, you go on thinking that. All classes have targets to meet, if they are exceeding them, even in PvE, they are going to get nerfed You are free to ignore the reality if that makes you sleep better at night. Edited June 4, 2015 by Pirindolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Never, it would be too much work, it would be like maintaining two games. I think that's a big assumption on your part. We have GSF in the game and space missions which work entirely differently with different skill sets etc. So I think that disproves your comment right away. If thinking it's all PvPs fault helps you sleep better at night, you go on thinking that. All classes have targets to meet, if they are exceeding them, even in PvE, they are going to get nerfed. This is the part I hate...targets to meet. It's not just about numbers it's also about playstyle and enjoying it. If it was just about numbers they should only have 4 classes. Tank, Heal, MDPS and RDPS and no specs. But we have a lot more variety. There is a reason why games have more than 4 classes. So yeh, I agree that classes should be as balanced as possible but double balancing (class wise and pvp/pve wise) cause some changes that can take the enjoyment out of playing a class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I see what you're saying, It's just I don't have a sage healer so I didn't want to comment on something I'm not familiar with. The thread was directed at all the healers so I adressed the 2 of them that I'm actually playing. Fair enough I do think you're right about the scoundrel and commando healers. Just not sure about the sorc/sage changes. I might end up liking it though, but atm I am skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevenavasovic Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Well it's a good thing I've leveled a merc just in case this happened. After testing sorc in the last PTS patch, it was obvious they weren't going to listen to any feedback from people who play this class. Yes, the force cost is a joke, and we don't have issues with managing our resources but at the same time, we only ever had one way to regain force, and that includes sacrificing our health. Unlike the other 2 classes, that's the only way to get force back. If you're low on health and low on force, you're just done. Our burst healing was fine. But if you want to make force management a thing, increase the cost of healing, or put Cons. on GC or both. But now the ONLY way to restore force takes 1.5 seconds (or instant with all force surge charges but you get less in that case), and I'm curious to see if it can be interruped (they haven't said it can't be interrupted while casted). Because if that's the case, then we might as well just say goodbye to sorc healing. "Consuming Darkness grants Reverse Corruptions, healing the target over 6 seconds" is a joke because if they maintain the amount of healing that was on PTS then 300 heals my TARGET gets is just plain sad (the fact I need a target to cast Con. is just stupid) And with the increase in cost of every single ability, casting Rev. isn't worth it in most cases. Not with such a high cost. Not when even with 2 force surge stacks, 4 piece set bonus I get 50 force back. We'll constantly be force negative, and play catch up on trying to remain force neutral. And if we die, then there's no point in rezzing us. We won't be able to help much at all. Not when we're low on health, low on force, and we need to somehow build stacks of force surge to then cast 1.5 seconds of cons. to get 50 force back. The only thing I do like is increasing the healing granted by Renewal after refreshing Resurgence on a target. Other than that, goodbye EHPS. Hello, oh so many wasted heals. Edited June 4, 2015 by nevenavasovic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imissleeches Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hummm... I'm not sure about the Sorc and Merc changes because it's been ages since I healed on the former and never did on the latter but at least as far as the Operative tweaks go, it sounds absolutely better than what they tried to pull off last time. The probes still stack and hopefully still get an extra tick on reset. The "slight" healing decrease on our HoTs is a little troubling without any numbers or percentages given but I don't know, maybe the 2% increases to our procs will balance it out? That might incentivise less probe spamming and require teammates to actually position properly so as many people as possible can take advantage of Recuperative Nanotech. What I'm really curious about is the "significant" buff to Kolto Injection. Right now it's only worth casting it if it's guaranteed to crit so maybe the increase will make it more reliable on its own? Diagnostic Scan has always been an energy generator more than a heal so I doubt we'll notice the healing output nerf, and I think being able to cast it on the run during AoE heavy parts of some boss fights is worth it (ish) I'm not sure how Operative's playstyle will change overall. I can predict that the group-wide healing will be less effective so team will have to actually step out of red circles once in a blue moon but we may get the ability to occasionally get off a burst on demand that does more than delay the inevitable which should be a nice change of pace. Will it let Medicine Operatives relive our glory days? Unlikely. But at least this time they've decided not to axe the unique mechanics that make this spec fun so I'm happy about that! Now if they would only give us our signature ability, Orbital Strike, back now that they've reduced the utility of AOEs in PvP I would be the happiest bunny under the sun ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts