KaellSolaris Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) All in the title, 3.3 will be arriving on live servers on July 21, so it means the Sent/Mara have to deal with the beautiful patch 3.2 and his magnificent balance for the next 3 to 4 month (until 3.3.1 or 3.4 ?). Someone can borrow me a rope plz ? /sarcasm Edited June 3, 2015 by KaellSolaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Judging by the obscene number of Sents/Maras I've seen recently, I really don't think any more buffs are warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaellSolaris Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Depends where you look, it is more or less an endangered species. And it this not a call for buff, just pissed off because they are not going to fix their damn utilities until the Force know when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sent/Mara is fine for regs and 4s with a balanced team. When I say balanced, I mean a few heals and a tank or two on each side - standard trinity comp. Where they get destroyed still (and they are not alone in this - it's an issue for every class except sorcs, sins, and PTs) is solo q ranked. In short, solo ranked ruined ranked because this game is not designed to be balanced for anything except a trinity composition, and that is something that you never see in solo q. It is almost always 4 dps vs 4 dps. The strengths of Mara, Sniper, Merc, etc, are all 100% wasted in a 4 dps vs 4 dps game. PT, Sorc, Sin are by far the best 1v1 classes, and 4v4 is just an extended 1v1 really. Add to that the fact that sorcs have the ability to do really good off heals, and you wonder why they are #1? Still, I'm not ************ about the classes - I'm ************ about the game mode. Solo Ranked should have never been introduced. It's that simple. It creates unbalanced teams. I fully believe that a good burst comp team that includes a Mara could do well, but that requires a level of play and coordination far beyond what you will see in Solo Q. If they want to "fix" other classes to make them viable for Ranked pvp, then they need to just get rid of solo q. You want the rewards? Make a team and compete. Otherwise it only encourages serious FOTM whoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sents aren't self sufficient is all similar to snipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The first patch since 3.0 without Mara buffs, how dare they?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xvlasis Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Time has shown us that DEVS have no idea of what balance is.simple as that.Furthermore,seems that (maybe until now) they dont give a crap for pvp (since pvpers dont care much for CC ) .Pathetic almost zero PVP content ,unbalanced classes,changes that create FOTM, and a broken ranked system (specialy solo ranked) . We were given 2 wz maps and 4 minimaps for arenas and that is the pvp content of this game:in 3 years: and now that pvp is dead ,they say " oh,only 2 percent have top tier gear ,lets make them cheaper " and they dont understand or dont want to admit the simple fact ,,that they have falied with how they treat pvp content/balance and thats why people doesnt have top tier gear,cause they HAVE QUIT PVP . Ofcourse,when DEVS consider a new instanced boss as "new pve contnet" ,something so little with absolutely no time value ,what do you expect?They prolly believe that the new crappy/frame****** Huttball is enough of a new pvp content for a couple of years. As for the mara issue,well,they have no idea what makes the class tick and what are its problems .Most of us know our classes better than the devs.we have spend more time with them,tested them,read for them ,practised with them ,and devs ,well check the older streaming videos for warrior in 3.0 ,they hardly know the names of our skills.Maras can be a little annoying if a)you are blind b)never played swtor before c)if you are a merc with a+b .It is so easy to mess his rotation and cut his damage in half that any class can do it.Sure ,Urage is an issue but if you can kite a dps jugg with 12 stacks of enraged def,endure pain,almost infinite cc immunity,Sward etc ,cant you kite a mara for 5 sec for UR to end and finish him ? There is no hope for maras .DEVS dont care,wont listen and cant understand the class and its problems.People is forced to play smashmonkeynotanymore just to get some immunity with force crush.Carnage is messed so bad ,anni got starved with new changes ,and still devs are bliind and deaf when it comes to maras and sents ,OR TO THE FACT THAT ASSASSINS CAN DESTROY ANYTHING with much less effort ,when we have to spill gallons of sweat just to be a little competitive. So,whats my point in this long post ? DEVS are failing badly in pvp content and balance ,and maras and snipers are a joke when they are facing any1 just marginally above bad players ,and the recent patch notes tells us that nothing is going to change.Anni will still be starved/ravage no longer fits rotation acording soe anni users , Carnage is messed beyond any hope and Fury is just the means for a glimpse of false survivability/juglike cc imunity .Best case scenario ,we will be told in yet another post that maras are high on rankings (lmao) and they are performing as intented (worse than most classes ).Unless DEVS read some forums,hear us ,and comprehend that anni AND CARNAGE need a serious redesign , go for assasins that devs love ,i will not play what the devs want to force me to be competitive,i wanna play what i like. Edited June 4, 2015 by xvlasis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekwalizer Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The first patch since 3.0 without Mara buffs, how dare they?!! I know right! And only like the 2nd patch since LAUNCH that Mara/Sent hasn't been improved in some way. It is the most over-tweaked AC in the game and has been since day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor-Norton Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The first patch since 3.0 without Mara buffs, how dare they?!! They went into 3.0 saying they were really concerned with how OP Marauders were in the past and were being really conservative with them, despite what the players said. If they have to spend much of their time after 3.0 fixing the class, they only have themselves to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenWangs Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) The first patch since 3.0 without Mara buffs, how dare they?!! Have you played watchman since 3.0? It is all of the following: boring ineffective melee (which means less desirable for ops) no resource management And since 3.2: terrible If you are exclusively a pvper, then you may not see the plight of the sent in pve. It's bad and needs fixing. edit: also its just plain dumb that it requires clipping master strike Edited June 4, 2015 by ChickenWangs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugattiboy Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) The first patch since 3.0 without Mara buffs, how dare they?!! What are these buffs you speak of? The things I've ever seen happen to Sentinels is nerfs or QOL changes. Speaking of buffs though, I can't remember a patch where Sage heals haven't been "significantly increased". Edited June 4, 2015 by Bugattiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailaria Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 What are these buffs you speak of? The things I've ever seen happen to Sentinels is nerfs or QOL changes. Speaking of buffs though, I can't remember a patch where Sage heals haven't been "significantly increased". Nono, changes must equal buffs. It's not like the devs could ever mess up. Seriously though, as a PvE Watchman player I can honestly say that it's been pretty much nothing but downhill for this entire expansion. Sure, 3.2.1 would've been a good step in the right direction if not for the fact that, as others have pointed out, they made the rotation even worse than it was before. I was genuinely surprised that was even possible, considering how bad the changes in 3.0 were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardarell_Solo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Seriously though, as a PvE Watchman player I can honestly say that it's been pretty much nothing but downhill for this entire expansion. Sure, 3.2.1 would've been a good step in the right direction if not for the fact that, as others have pointed out, they made the rotation even worse than it was before. I was genuinely surprised that was even possible, considering how bad the changes in 3.0 were. /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugattiboy Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Seriously though, as a PvE Watchman player I can honestly say that it's been pretty much nothing but downhill for this entire expansion. Sure, 3.2.1 would've been a good step in the right direction if not for the fact that, as others have pointed out, they made the rotation even worse than it was before. I was genuinely surprised that was even possible, considering how bad the changes in 3.0 were. /signed. Speaking the last sentence specifically, never count EA out. It's can be always worse them. It's their special talent. Edited June 5, 2015 by Bugattiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Nono, changes must equal buffs. It's not like the devs could ever mess up. Seriously though, as a PvE Watchman player I can honestly say that it's been pretty much nothing but downhill for this entire expansion. Sure, 3.2.1 would've been a good step in the right direction if not for the fact that, as others have pointed out, they made the rotation even worse than it was before. I was genuinely surprised that was even possible, considering how bad the changes in 3.0 were. So much truth in this and it's sad that the devs cannot see what they do. And I don't even have a sentinel. However, I started playing a few months ago and just couldn't roll one and I want to so bad. I currently main a Jugg but its not like this is what I wanted to play but I'm also not trying to stress myself out over a game. It's almost as if they are purposely trying to anger their players to the point of quitting. It makes no sense at all. Hell, I'm about to leave here soon because why stay if I can't play a class I want to play without being gimped in the game just to end up frustrated. I really just need to give up mmo's I think because it's no different anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwopicus Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Sent/Mara is fine for regs and 4s with a balanced team. When I say balanced, I mean a few heals and a tank or two on each side - standard trinity comp. Where they get destroyed still (and they are not alone in this - it's an issue for every class except sorcs, sins, and PTs) is solo q ranked. In short, solo ranked ruined ranked because this game is not designed to be balanced for anything except a trinity composition, and that is something that you never see in solo q. It is almost always 4 dps vs 4 dps. The strengths of Mara, Sniper, Merc, etc, are all 100% wasted in a 4 dps vs 4 dps game. PT, Sorc, Sin are by far the best 1v1 classes, and 4v4 is just an extended 1v1 really. Add to that the fact that sorcs have the ability to do really good off heals, and you wonder why they are #1? Still, I'm not ************ about the classes - I'm ************ about the game mode. Solo Ranked should have never been introduced. It's that simple. It creates unbalanced teams. I fully believe that a good burst comp team that includes a Mara could do well, but that requires a level of play and coordination far beyond what you will see in Solo Q. If they want to "fix" other classes to make them viable for Ranked pvp, then they need to just get rid of solo q. You want the rewards? Make a team and compete. Otherwise it only encourages serious FOTM whoring. QFT Maras need good heals more than any other class to do well. Looking at the facts, it is: Melee- melee classes take more damage, always Has no self heals- Guardian/jugg, operative/scoundrel all have self heals Cannot kite- Unlike PT/VG it can't call itself a melee while trashing things from 15m away Bad escapes- Doesn't have phase walk/force cloak like sins, troll roll/flashbang like Ops, or Sonic the PT The reason snipers and maras are "overperforming" in group ranked, is because when given proper support they will curb stomp an enemy team. They can't survive yoloqueue because damage just adds up, and they can't avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airswoosh Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) The problem is the Devs are catering to the pvp side of the community trying to create a balance so to speak in WZs, Where Sents where a bit OP prior to 3.0 (number 1 dps pretty much consistently) the changes made at 3.0 and beyond have done nothing but make the Sent irrelevant as a class and something only insane hardcore players want to play at end game. Lets focus on PVE here- Ravs and ToS are both made for Rdps specs. Being Mdps puts your survivability at risk big time, the movements required to stay out of circles/ away from lurker lings etc, drops dps numbers by a good 500-1000 points. Can these be done on an Mdps? Sure they can, but if you have more than 2 in your group your almost guaranteed to fail. Every change made so far has been even worse for PVE. The changes in abilities. The changes to the Disciplines even ruined the way some Sents play. They do so saying it will make the class more mobile.. the only thing that will make the class more mobile is a lightsaber you can swing from half a screen away. SMH All the recent nerfs (changes if you want to say it that way) have focused on the PVP side of things to make it where Sents are supposedly in line with other classes. But by the Devs own posts the Sents are finishing between 4-6 out of classes. How do you take the pre 3.0 #1 class which is also the only class in game that is specific to combat specialization (see class descriptions), and make it at best middle of the road? I have talked to some guildies that PVP on the regular and they say that some Sents do really well, but for the most part they are easy targets in WZs. What have these done to PVE players? Made it where playing the class is painful at best. Only thing we are good for in ops is class buffs or raid buffs at this point (a bit of an exaggeration but its really not that far off). What are the Devs plans for this? To leave it as it currently sits. So does that mean that the rest of the classes will be debuffed and switched to match how bad Sents are to play right now? Nope. My theory on this is that the Devs all play Sorcs. Sents slaughtered Sorcs on the regular prior to 3.0. So now the Devs jealous and mad at Sents for pwning them for a long time are punishing them as they have now made Sorcs the most OP class in WZs. Thanks Devs (this post is somewhat sarcastic but the just of the post is serious) Edited June 18, 2015 by airswoosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Some say we were FOTM for too long, it's time we got nerfed. I don't think that's true, but even if it was, we need to consider this: we are the only melee class that can only dps, that is the reason why we should be #1 dps in parse numbers at first (note the MS/Ravage and Dispatch/Vicious Throw nerfs), also we either need self-heals or much better defenses because we take insane amount of dmg right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 QFT Maras need good heals more than any other class to do well. Looking at the facts, it is: Melee- melee classes take more damage, always Has no self heals- Guardian/jugg, operative/scoundrel all have self heals Cannot kite- Unlike PT/VG it can't call itself a melee while trashing things from 15m away Bad escapes- Doesn't have phase walk/force cloak like sins, troll roll/flashbang like Ops, or Sonic the PT The reason snipers and maras are "overperforming" in group ranked, is because when given proper support they will curb stomp an enemy team. They can't survive yoloqueue because damage just adds up, and they can't avoid it. The bad escapes part is no exactly true, we have vanish (not as good as assa/op, but neither are we stealth class) and Awe. The lack of stun dmg reduction (rebuke needs utility point - yeah almost everyone else needs too, but they have 30% not 20), the long 3min CD on 2 defensives don't help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkeir Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 The first patch since 3.0 without Mara buffs, how dare they?!! Never much liked this argument, no offense I went back and looked, and yes we are the most patched class, but then what does that tell you. 3.0 Every class gets patched 3.0.0a No class just Imp Agent bug fix to video 3.0.0b No Class PVP Vendor fix 3.0.1 Sentinels Dispatch CD increase Damage increase unspecified amount to Twin saber throw, saber through General bug Fixes abilities in builds not granting the right buffs or buffing wrong abilities. 3.0.2 Knight / Warrior Bug fixes Sage / Sorcerer Bug fixes Smuggler animation and tooltip fixes 3.0.2a No fixes to any class 3.0.2b No fixes to any class 3.1 Guardian / Juggernaut fixes – No Sentinel Shadow / Assassin Fixes Gunslinger / Sniper tweaks 3.1a No fixes to any class 3.1.1 Sentinel / Marauder Utility Changes Sage bug fixes / tooltip issues Trooper / Bounty hunter have most of the class changes here 3.1.2 Guardian / Juggernaut survival buff very small but there Sentinel / Marauder utility fixes was not working now is. Sage / Sorcerer changes Shadow / Assassin changes Trooper / Bounty Hunter changes 3.1.2a Low Slash Bug fix 3.2 Guardian / Juggernaut gain Unremitting/Unstoppable for all builds Sentinel / Marauders reduces internal CD on a couple of utilities / abilities Trooper / Bounty Hunter Plasmatech / Pyrotech changes Scoundrel / Operatives changes Buffs? Gunslinger / Sniper changes 3.2a No fixes to any class 3.2b No fixes to any class 3.2c No fixes to any class 3.2.1 Resolve Watchman / Annihilation Changes that did some improvement but broke the rotation of the builds Sentinel / Marauders Utility and set changes Sage / Sorcerer Force Armor and Static Barrier buffs Shadow / Assassin tank channel while moving Gunslinger / Sniper bug fix 3.2.2 Warrior Heroic Moment fix Sage Tidal Force Fix Sorcerer Lightning Storm Fix 3.2.2a No Classes 3.3 Healer buffs / Changes….. Guardian / Juggernaut 5/20 Patches sense 3.0 Sentinel / Marauder 7/20 patches sense 3.0 Sage / Sorcerer 5/20 Patches Sense 3.0 Shadow / Assassin 5/20 Patches sense 3.0 Trooper / Bounty Hunter 4/20 Patches sense 3.0 Smuggler 5/20 Patches sense 3.0 Agent 4/20 Patches sense 3.0 So yes they have been tweaked the most however it could also be said the FOTM classes have been tweaked the least of all the classes. Maybe if they were fixed Sentinels would not be so underperforming, or perhaps their underperformance is because we have not been fixed correctly. Even if we had been patched 20/20 times we are still the least desired class in PVE end game content, and one of the easiest to kill in PVP. How do you explain that a medium armor melee class is easier to kill then a cloth/light armor wearing ranged class, or better yet how does a Light armor melee/Hybrid outperform the pure melee class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 So yes they have been tweaked the most however it could also be said the FOTM classes have been tweaked the least of all the classes. Maybe if they were fixed Sentinels would not be so underperforming, or perhaps their underperformance is because we have not been fixed correctly. Even if we had been patched 20/20 times we are still the least desired class in PVE end game content, and one of the easiest to kill in PVP. How do you explain that a medium armor melee class is easier to kill then a cloth/light armor wearing ranged class, or better yet how does a Light armor melee/Hybrid outperform the pure melee class. Good sent with Inspiration is still good, but we need to fight much more for places, yes. We are 2nd easiest kill afterc mando/merc, slinger/sniper is only better because they can at least kite melee. They need to increase MS CD and dmg (30s +66% dmg for example), make old defensive forms and contemplation passive, remove Force Melt and fire the dev who came up with its idea, increase Precision, reduce Concentration abilities, give us reliable heal (revert Watchman to 2% hp on dotcrits, make zealous ward baseline or give something else for AC-wide selfheal, like everyone has - except snipers, but they need it too) for starters and we can talk from there about where to advance the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Good sent with Inspiration is still good, but we need to fight much more for places, yes. We are 2nd easiest kill afterc mando/merc, slinger/sniper is only better because they can at least kite melee. They need to increase MS CD and dmg (30s +66% dmg for example), make old defensive forms and contemplation passive, remove Force Melt and fire the dev who came up with its idea, increase Precision, reduce Concentration abilities, give us reliable heal (revert Watchman to 2% hp on dotcrits, make zealous ward baseline or give something else for AC-wide selfheal, like everyone has - except snipers, but they need it too) for starters and we can talk from there about where to advance the class. Mara is great. Some other specs like Operatives, Juggs and even MM and Eng snipers also. They are versatile and balanced (some help to Anni mb). The 3 FOTM specs need patching. Regarding PVE, there is no *specific* Mara problem either. Edited July 23, 2015 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Mara is great. Some other specs like Operatives, Juggs and even MM and Eng snipers also. They versatile and balanced. The 3 FOTM specs need patching. Well as watchman sent i can say we are not great, because we have clumsy rotation and must rely on dotspread for one of the weakest self-heals (ofc merc and sniper is much worse). We do need fixes and other 2 specs, too. It wouldnt be a so huge change, just revert us back to 2.10 and all sent/mara will shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachbrah Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Maras got buffed with hatred sin nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Mara is great. Some other specs like Operatives, Juggs and even MM and Eng snipers also. They are versatile and balanced (some help to Anni mb). The 3 FOTM specs need patching. Regarding PVE, there is no *specific* Mara problem either. And btw ppl hate the new eng sniper afaik, it lost everything it had for its identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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