Can we bring back 'Recruit' Gear?

[SOULCASTER]

So I hear they are requiring 2018 expertise for solo ranked in the future....can you extend that to regs as well? Bring back some way to acquire a free set of 2018 expertise gear that bolsters ideally or something?

 

I know regs are really serious...but people showing up with 50k health and 200-900 expertise for pvp is kind of unacceptable. They can't compete at all.

 

Thoughts?

Edited June 1, 2015 by SOULCASTER

[TACeMossie]

I know regs are really serious...but people showing up with 55k health and 900 expertise for pvp is kind of unacceptable. They can't compete at all.

 

Thoughts?

 

Actually, my guildy showed up in full optimized 198s (with a 192 mainhand) last night and got 3rd place in damage on his slinger in Marksmanship spec, beaten only by me and another guildy (who was another vanguard also in full PvP gear). The 4th guildy was optimized 198s / 192 mainhand Commando Healer. We also died the least out of everyone despite not really acting like a premade and just running around like a headless chicken.

 

And since I wasn't getting any abnormally high hits its safe to assume all my enemies had 2018 expertise

 

Though all this proves is that you need skill to survive + do damage with DECENT PvE gear, something a lot of bads dont have as they show up with full Ultimate Comm gear to PvP and wonder why they suck so bad (here's a hint, stop using ultimate comm gear )

Edited June 1, 2015 by TACeMossie

[SOULCASTER]

Actually, my guildy showed up in full optimized 198s (with a 192 mainhand) last night and got 3rd place in damage on his slinger in Marksmanship spec, beaten only by me and another guildy (who was another vanguard also in full PvP gear). The 4th guildy was optimized 198s / 192 mainhand Commando Healer. We also died the least out of everyone despite not really acting like a premade and just running around like a headless chicken.

 

And since I wasn't getting any abnormally high hits its safe to assume all my enemies had 2018 expertise

 

Though all this proves is that you need skill to survive + do damage with DECENT PvE gear, something a lot of bads dont have as they show up with full Ultimate Comm gear to PvP and wonder why they suck so bad (here's a hint, stop using ultimate comm gear )

 

Yes competent players using sub-par gear can do well, though I'm not sure why they would if you know better. But regardless, take a pre-made in sub-par gear vs a pre-made in actual gear (skill equal), it will not be competitive.

 

It could be very easy to make 2018 expertise a requirement for ALL pvp in swtor, and then give out a free optimized bolster set of ''recruit gear'' again.

[Icykill_]

So I hear they are requiring 2018 expertise for solo ranked in the future....can you extend that to regs as well? Bring back some way to acquire a free set of 2018 expertise gear that bolsters ideally or something?

 

I know regs are really serious...but people showing up with 50k health and 200-900 expertise for pvp is kind of unacceptable. They can't compete at all.

 

Thoughts?

 

Short answer... No, to free recruit gear

[AdrianDmitruk]

Recruit gear never really got updated when new tiers of PVP gear were released, because Bioware was afraid of breaking PVE progression by handing out ever more powerful recruit gear for free.

 

Eventually it got to a point where wearing the recruit gear that you were "supposed" to wear to get your feet wet in PVP was about equivalent to wearing 148 gear (if that) against everyone else in full optimized 174s. It became utterly untenable. At that point, gear>>>skill. (And yes, I was around for those days.)

 

That is why Bioware implemented bolster, flawed though it may be. Bioware is more or less forced to update it with each new gear tier to prevent PVE gear from becoming BiS (or at least try to), and yet its effects can easily be confined to PVP environments. It's a way around the trap whereby "recruit" gear can never be allowed to keep up with new gear tier releases lest it become too good for PVE.

[Odyseus]

Doesn't matter. Those type of players didn't use when it was offered. They were more worried about how they looked instead of how they performed.

[RGMetal]

With the changes to the WZ com cap(200K) and the cost of Exhumed(-33%) if someone doesn't have enough brainpower to save up for a full set of Exhumed when they ding 60 they're just dead weight regardless.

[diadox]

They should just change bolster so that literally anything that is not one of the two current pvp sets gets bolstered to exactly the same power level, whether it be leveling gear, endgame pve gear, brutalizer, or old champion. Give it max expertise, and give it stats that are as much of a downgrade from current pvp set 1 (currently exhumed) as current pvp set 1 is a downgrade from current pvp set 2 (currently dark reaver). Every given post-bolster mod would have one of three different power levels: pvp set 2, pvp set 1, or bolster.

[Floplag]

With the changes to the WZ com cap(200K) and the cost of Exhumed(-33%) if someone doesn't have enough brainpower to save up for a full set of Exhumed when they ding 60 they're just dead weight regardless.

 

The one thing wrong with this statement is that as fast as 12X levels you, no, there legitimately inst enough time unless you intentionally stop leveling to pvp.

The increased cap may help but pvp pre-60 doesn't get you added XP that i can see so it actually slows you down.

i recenelty level an alt and i made sure i hit the goals i set of max comms at 40 and again at 60.. but i kid you not when i say it delayed to process significantly.

Now once the boosted comm rewards and stuff kick in maybe not... but right now it isnt as easy as it sounds.

ive told people that plan to do an alt to use thier mains as they pvp tpo buy reg gear and send over mods in legacy armor to get the head start.

[RGMetal]

The one thing wrong with this statement is that as fast as 12X levels you, no, there legitimately inst enough time unless you intentionally stop leveling to pvp.

The increased cap may help but pvp pre-60 doesn't get you added XP that i can see so it actually slows you down.

i recenelty level an alt and i made sure i hit the goals i set of max comms at 40 and again at 60.. but i kid you not when i say it delayed to process significantly.

Now once the boosted comm rewards and stuff kick in maybe not... but right now it isnt as easy as it sounds.

ive told people that plan to do an alt to use thier mains as they pvp tpo buy reg gear and send over mods in legacy armor to get the head start.

 

I had no problem getting lots of coms doing 55-60 on a bunch of toons. Hell, I was sending them to other toons with stronghold titles to buy gear. Keep in mind that you won't need valor 40 anymore, or to buy ranked coms. Maxed ranked coms were (4500x3) 13500 wz coms, more than enough to buy a full set at current prices. If they lower the price of Exhumed by 33%, you're looking at about 8500 wz coms to a full set, which would be easy to get in 5 levels.

[foxmob]

I was a fan of recruit gear. I'm still for it. but there really is no need for it with bolster. however, bolster doesn't buff/nerf the right stats.

 

bolster should make sure EVERYONE ALWAYS HAS 2018 EXPERTISE.

 

then bolster needs to NERF the stats on any gear above 162 so that it is slightly WORSE than 168 (exhumed).

 

in other words, at 60s, bolster should only "bolster" expertise (fully, to 2018) and then nerf every other stat across the board down to something just below 168 (e.g., 164).

 

I think this is basically what others have already said here. as far as I'm concerned this is the ONLY way bolster and expertise can work together in the same system effectively.

 

as a side note: I do not think bolster should attempt to compensate for augments or lack of augments. the use or disuse of augments applies across the board in this game just as does the use of stims. it would be nice if everybody used them, and they're a benefite for everyone who uses them, but it should not be the job of bolster to make sure "everyone uses them." with the possible exception of tactical ops/fps aside, you don't have players running around PvE instances with "free" blue end/power augs. why the hell do they get them for pvp?

Edited June 1, 2015 by foxmob

[Floplag]

I had no problem getting lots of coms doing 55-60 on a bunch of toons. Hell, I was sending them to other toons with stronghold titles to buy gear. Keep in mind that you won't need valor 40 anymore, or to buy ranked coms. Maxed ranked coms were (4500x3) 13500 wz coms, more than enough to buy a full set at current prices. If they lower the price of Exhumed by 33%, you're looking at about 8500 wz coms to a full set, which would be easy to get in 5 levels.

 

You know they closed that loop though i assume right? You cant send WZ comms across legacy anymore unless someone discovered something im not aware of but the title thing is no longer working.

 

You can hit 60 under 12X over a long weekend to a week at the most... your not going to get 8500 WZ comms that fast while leveling.

 

Yes, there are many things you can do as you and i have pointed out, all im saying that is if you level under 12X you will need to slow down at various times and do non 12X content to reach those goals.

 

I think it is worth it to hit 60 in better shape but most just want to hit 60 and dont think about what happens after that till it happens which is the problem.

[RGMetal]

You know they closed that loop though i assume right? You cant send WZ comms across legacy anymore unless someone discovered something im not aware of but the title thing is no longer working.

 

...and they're adding something similar back in for 3.3. Everything I've said is based on what the game will look like in 3.3, not what it's like now.

 

Fully maxed coms right now(2750/4500) won't get you but half a set of gear. Which is why the forum is flooded with posts about using the free 162s from the Revan Prelude to get better bolster.

 

As for 12x, it turns off at 55, no matter what content you do. I do not think it would be hard to get 8k wz coms in those 5 levels once 3.3 drops.

 

That's my .02

[Anishor]

With the changes in 3.3 I don't think we need it tbh. Also I like how PvErs are punished for bringing in their raid gear. I believe that the problem is how bolster is explained and presented to non-pvpers who don't really understand the system.

 

I think the bolster system is good as it is ( short of the fact they need to update it for hte new mainhand dmg. ) I have played Rift where they have a downgrade bolster, and it's worse than our bolster has ever been. Instead of looking at the aggregate power of the gear and then removing expertise to compensate. You have to look at every piece and downgrade it at the subcomponent level. I forsee a lot more ways to break it than what we have now.

[Floplag]

...and they're adding something similar back in for 3.3. Everything I've said is based on what the game will look like in 3.3, not what it's like now.

 

Fully maxed coms right now(2750/4500) won't get you but half a set of gear. Which is why the forum is flooded with posts about using the free 162s from the Revan Prelude to get better bolster.

 

As for 12x, it turns off at 55, no matter what content you do. I do not think it would be hard to get 8k wz coms in those 5 levels once 3.3 drops.

 

That's my .02

 

Yes, im aware of that but we are talking about now. the upcoming changes will help for certain, but until that happens we have the bulk of the 12Xers either in the pipeline or already t 60 trying to gear up.

Again you arent wrong, but since we dont have those things today and they closed the loophole... the only ways you hit 60 with a full set of gear is if you intentionally slow yourself down to earn them, or use your main to send them over in legacy hear.. both of which i think we should be doing .

[Cherepk]

They just need to change the way bolstering works. It should work on all gear levels, it should scale down or up to 168 and auto add 2018 expertise if all slots are equipped.

Seriously bolstering in this is game as unintuitive as it gets.

I really hate that you need to have 162- gear just to be ok WZ. Like how many will keep that gear after they get to 60 and instantly can buy 168 + gear........... Just to realize later on that they needed that gear to be competitive in WZ.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Cherepk

[Master-Nala]

as a side note: I do not think bolster should attempt to compensate for augments or lack of augments. the use or disuse of augments applies across the board in this game just as does the use of stims. it would be nice if everybody used them, and they're a benefite for everyone who uses them, but it should not be the job of bolster to make sure "everyone uses them." with the possible exception of tactical ops/fps aside, you don't have players running around PvE instances with "free" blue end/power augs. why the hell do they get them for pvp?

 

For the same reason Bolster exists, to ensure that your teammates have teammates with minimally acceptable gear. This is what so many people miss. Bolster isn't there for the people it helps as much as it is there for US, the people who really get into PvP and would prefer to play with others who have at least decent gear.

 

If all PvP were 1v1 duels, then there would probably be no need of bolster as you never depend on anyone. But so long as PUGs depend on each member of the team having minimally acceptable gear we have bolster.

 

Specifically as to augments, they just provide too much additional power for bolster to work without them. I remember when it wasn't like that, you could tell almost immediately who didn't augment. And they were significantly weaker even when they were in PvP gear.

[foxmob]

Instead of looking at the aggregate power of the gear and then removing expertise to compensate. You have to look at every piece and downgrade it at the subcomponent level. I forsee a lot more ways to break it than what we have now.

they already do this though. for example, there is an "acute enhancement" for every level from ~level 40 onward, and they are all organized by rank. for example, the "acute dark reaver enhancement" is a rank 174. it's the equivalent of a 174 pve enhancement. the hard part has already been done. the formula is pretty simple: if gear X is 168 or higher, it gets knocked down to 165 equivalent mods/enh, and everyone gets 2018 exp across the board.

 

ppl may whine that their 198s are now reduced to the same (in)effectiveness as a fresh 60s 178s, but since you're BOTH in pve gear trying to pvp, I'd say you're BOTH entry level and should shut up and buy some pvp gear.

[foxmob]

Specifically as to augments, they just provide too much additional power for bolster to work without them. I remember when it wasn't like that, you could tell almost immediately who didn't augment. And they were significantly weaker even when they were in PvP gear.

 

yeah. but that's the game, man. augments are not specific to pvp. that's like playing your BH with a cunning weapon. I mean...yes. you should know what stats do and do not benefit you. just as you should know what augments do for you. but augments and stims aren't compensated for in any other area of the game despite providing the same exact benefits (it's not an expertise thing). I understand that it means I'll get ppl on my team that haven't yet figured out the benefit of augments or who claim it's too expensive.

 

but at some point, I think you just have to accept that some of this stuff is just part of the game. using augments is just part of the game. I'm cool with a more blatant "tutorial" system to get ppl to use/understand augments, but they're a basic part of the game. they aren't something that should be handed out.

 

:2cents:

[Master-Nala]

yeah. but that's the game, man. augments are not specific to pvp. that's like playing your BH with a cunning weapon. I mean...yes. you should know what stats do and do not benefit you. just as you should know what augments do for you. but augments and stims aren't compensated for in any other area of the game despite providing the same exact benefits (it's not an expertise thing). I understand that it means I'll get ppl on my team that haven't yet figured out the benefit of augments or who claim it's too expensive.

 

but at some point, I think you just have to accept that some of this stuff is just part of the game. using augments is just part of the game. I'm cool with a more blatant "tutorial" system to get ppl to use/understand augments, but they're a basic part of the game. they aren't something that should be handed out.

 

:2cents:

 

To a certain extent, I agree with you. But augments are just there to give crafters something to do and sap money from the game. I can't blame people for not having them. It costs about 2 million even to use blue augments . That's a significant investment for every character.

 

I don't think it's like using the wrong weapon, because the game does actually tell you what your main stat is and why it's important. Furthermore, the game literally will give you gear with your main stat to reinforce that lesson. Augments come from one place...crafting. And while I would guess they are documented somewhere in game, darned if I know where.

[SOULCASTER]

Doesn't matter. Those type of players didn't use when it was offered. They were more worried about how they looked instead of how they performed.

 

Yes well if they implemented a mandatory 2018 expertise before queuing for warzones, they'd be forced to use it. And the new costume/outfit designer in game negates any worries about not looking good in pvp gear anymore.

[LtBombshell]

While I seriously doubt they'll bring it back, the fact that BW lowered the prices a ton on both ranked and unranked gear means it will be a crap ton easier to get, making recruit gear obsolete in a sense.

[SOULCASTER]

While I seriously doubt they'll bring it back, the fact that BW lowered the prices a ton on both ranked and unranked gear means it will be a crap ton easier to get, making recruit gear obsolete in a sense.

 

Right, but there are a LOT of people that don't have full expertise that enter warzones. Some probably outright refuse to switch gear because they think it doesn't matter, or that bolster will carry them. What I was proposing with new 'recruit' gear would prevent these people from playing pvp unless they had full expertise. Which would be literally as easy as just putting on the freely given 'recruit gear' so they actually have a fighting chance.

 

This also would make balancing 'bolster' much easier because then youd only need to worry about bolstering the Recruit Gear, the new gear, and the top end gear. There would be no more worry about bolstering pve gear because they wouldn't be allowed to queue with sub 2018 expertise.

Edited June 2, 2015 by SOULCASTER

[Joesixxpack]

I'm all in favor scaling and don't think exp. should be earned. Not because I want a freebie, but because it sucks joining a PUG match full of pve heroes and/or clueless people. And they probably think it sucks when typically me and a few others dodge them and they start short. Edited June 2, 2015 by Joesixxpack

[WannEras]

Come on, just get full 162 mods, you get them for free while questing if you don't bin it for the 178 gear.

 

Just get two shells, 1 for PVP and 1 for PVE. Try to augment your PVP set with blue level 56 augments and then wack full 162 mods in it, done. I believe you also need 2 expertise crystals in your weapons otherwise you'll be capped at 1936 expertise because PVE crystals don't get bolstered, only the armorings, mods and enhancements.

 

You can also buy the 162 mods for basic comms which you should have plenty of by the time you hit 60.

Edited June 2, 2015 by WannEras