This is an unjustified nerf

[Matt_Comtois]

Why would you nerf an already unpopular class? My main is a mara and it seems every raid asks for rdps so getting in a raid is a trial in and of itself, now we will have to contend with this. I use the Annihilation discipline and it bothers me that you would reduce the best part of the class, the lingering bleed effect. It is our main dps delivery, cutting it in half is a slap in the face. On top of having pretty much no ranged capabilities you are giving raid leaders another reason to turn us away by making it hard for healers to keep us alive. But in pvp terms you make us easier to kill. You geniuses are going to kill this game by dumbing it down and catering to new players. I feel like you are punishing people for getting experienced and talent and learning proper rotations. The general swtor population maximizes the damage/healing/defensive capabilities of their class and you cut us down a size to level the playing field for the new, unskilled clueless swtor population. probably the same people who use cunning on their sorc healer "because healers use cunning" right? You need to stop nerfing classes. Wasn't dumbing down our skill tree enough? Edited May 27, 2015 by Matt_Comtois

[jauvtus]

Why would you nerf an already unpopular class? My main is a mara and it seems every raid asks for rdps so getting in a raid is a trial in and of itself, now we will have to contend with this. I use the Annihilation discipline and it bothers me that you would reduce the best part of the class, the lingering bleed effect. It is our main dps delivery, cutting it in half is a slap in the face. Again you are catering to pvp whiners and is obvious when you nerf our defensive utilities. On top of having pretty much no ranged capabilities you are giving raid leaders another reason to turn us away by making it hard for healers to keep us alive. But in pvp terms you make us easier to kill. You geniuses are going to kill this game by dumbing it down and catering to new players. I feel like you are punishing people for getting experienced and talent and learning proper rotations. The general swtor population maximizes the damage/healing/defensive capabilities of their class and you cut us down a size to level the playing field for the new, unskilled clueless swtor population. probably the same people who use cunning on their sorc healer "because healers use cunning" right? You need to stop nerfing classes. Wasn't dumbing down our skill tree enough?

 

We tried warning them for a long time. They don't listen. I have no idea for their reasons, but it doesn't matter. Stop wasting your breath. I personally will spend a lot of time trying to find a new rotation for Watchman. Whatever they do, we will always prevail. They will never take us alive!

[fujeotwo]

We tried warning them for a long time. They don't listen. I have no idea for their reasons, but it doesn't matter. Stop wasting your breath. I personally will spend a lot of time trying to find a new rotation for Watchman. Whatever they do, we will always prevail. They will never take us alive!

 

I don't understand. What's being nerfed?

[Rowdieranger]

Why would you nerf an already unpopular class? My main is a mara and it seems every raid asks for rdps so getting in a raid is a trial in and of itself, now we will have to contend with this. I use the Annihilation discipline and it bothers me that you would reduce the best part of the class, the lingering bleed effect. It is our main dps delivery, cutting it in half is a slap in the face. Again you are catering to pvp whiners and is obvious when you nerf our defensive utilities. On top of having pretty much no ranged capabilities you are giving raid leaders another reason to turn us away by making it hard for healers to keep us alive. But in pvp terms you make us easier to kill. You geniuses are going to kill this game by dumbing it down and catering to new players. I feel like you are punishing people for getting experienced and talent and learning proper rotations. The general swtor population maximizes the damage/healing/defensive capabilities of their class and you cut us down a size to level the playing field for the new, unskilled clueless swtor population. probably the same people who use cunning on their sorc healer "because healers use cunning" right? You need to stop nerfing classes. Wasn't dumbing down our skill tree enough?

 

While I agree with most of this, don't try and blame PvPers about the defensives, you are 100% wrong

[fujeotwo]

I don't understand. What's being nerfed?

 

What's being nerfed? Could someone explain to me what's being nerfed?

[TACeMossie]

What's being nerfed? Could someone explain to me what's being nerfed?

 

The 6 second cauterize + 15 second force melt make resource management atrocious, to the extent that the improved procs wont help enough. It will also be incredibly difficult to fit a whole master strike in the rotation

[jauvtus]

I'm pretty sure I'll never use MS again, with TST proccing set bonus. Also 6s Cauterize+6s CD Merciless Slash means we 2 GCDs between a Merciless+Cauterize window, and in 2 GCDs we need to use: Force Melt, Force Leap, Overload Saber (offGCD but needs Focus), Zealous Strike, TST, Dispatch and Slash would be nice for filler but probably will need Strikes for Focus. That's 6-7 abilities for 2 GCD! Also Force Melt duration is shorted, with 6s multiply CDs it's impossible to have a 15s DoT 100% uptime, either I need to clip it or lose it. Also the damage of the Force Melt is reduced, the DEVS KNOW THIS IS A DPS LOSS, they asked us, where do we want this damage to return, but as you can see in the patch notes NONE OF OUR ABILITIES GOT HIGHER DAMAGE (pls don't troll with Force Sweep). These are the things that came in my mind in an instant. But yeah, let's bark our heads off, because we don't like all the hard work the mighty devs did for us. If anyone thinks Watchman got better, not worse, I can't even find words.

[NicoTheEdge]

I just done a BG and I never done so few dmg. It's impressive. And during all the fight I felt even more weak than before, dying more often, being killed in 5 sec (full pvp stuff with 4 ranked piece). I know that one battle is not enough to totaly compare. But it's enought to "feel" it. And my feeling is that this class is the weakest ever. No positive poitns, nothing to save.

I don't use my Sentinel in PVE for weeks now, and I'll stop to play it in PVP too. I won't play it anymore, I'll use it only to craft for the conquest point. It's the only thing this caracter is able to do now.

 

Really sad, it's my main, built before the game was released in pre-access.

Edited May 27, 2015 by NicoTheEdge

[Costello]

As it has gone live it would be good to hear from the dev team why they felt that these changes were necessary and the loss of dps is by design.

 

It seems like nobody wanted the change or thought it was a good idea, the nerf does not seem justified and it does nothing to improve the quality of life or spread of utilities for the class. As it appears to be the only thing really brought into the last patch it seems a complete waste of time.

[Matt_Comtois]

I just done a BG and I never done so few dmg. It's impressive. And during all the fight I felt even more weak than before, dying more often, being killed in 5 sec (full pvp stuff with 4 ranked piece). I know that one battle is not enough to totaly compare. But it's enought to "feel" it. And my feeling is that this class is the weakest ever. No positive poitns, nothing to save.

I don't use my Sentinel in PVE for weeks now, and I'll stop to play it in PVP too. I won't play it anymore, I'll use it only to craft for the conquest point. It's the only thing this caracter is able to do now.

 

Really sad, it's my main, built before the game was released in pre-access.

It's funny that pre-nerf people make whole threads about how awful the mara class is. So I would like to know how the devs justify fixing this problem by nerfing us I think the mara deserves a boost if anything.

[Matt_Comtois]

I'm pretty sure I'll never use MS again, with TST proccing set bonus. Also 6s Cauterize+6s CD Merciless Slash means we 2 GCDs between a Merciless+Cauterize window, and in 2 GCDs we need to use: Force Melt, Force Leap, Overload Saber (offGCD but needs Focus), Zealous Strike, TST, Dispatch and Slash would be nice for filler but probably will need Strikes for Focus. That's 6-7 abilities for 2 GCD! Also Force Melt duration is shorted, with 6s multiply CDs it's impossible to have a 15s DoT 100% uptime, either I need to clip it or lose it. Also the damage of the Force Melt is reduced, the DEVS KNOW THIS IS A DPS LOSS, they asked us, where do we want this damage to return, but as you can see in the patch notes NONE OF OUR ABILITIES GOT HIGHER DAMAGE (pls don't troll with Force Sweep). These are the things that came in my mind in an instant. But yeah, let's bark our heads off, because we don't like all the hard work the mighty devs did for us. If anyone thinks Watchman got better, not worse, I can't even find words.

I notice they have a PTS but do not take any advisement given in the PTS threads.

[Blitz-wing]

The developer's did talk about the changes being made...

 

Annihilation/Watchman Rotation Design Philosophy:

 

Defensive Forms:

[Lalainnia]

The 6 second cauterize + 15 second force melt make resource management atrocious, to the extent that the improved procs wont help enough. It will also be incredibly difficult to fit a whole master strike in the rotation

 

I'm confused here is using cauterize an x amount of times over a period of time going to be that painful on resources and 3 seconds between having to refresh force melt? The talent plasma blades that gives focus for a burn or bleed on the target with a 20% chance it was changed from a 4 sec icd to 1 second this doesn't help to remove some of that resource strain? Also with Mercy slash making force melt free with one use does that help the resource strain? As for master strike is this spec even intended to use it?

 

Another question does alacrity affect plasma blades talent?

[Matt_Comtois]

As it has gone live it would be good to hear from the dev team why they felt that these changes were necessary and the loss of dps is by design.

 

It seems like nobody wanted the change or thought it was a good idea, the nerf does not seem justified and it does nothing to improve the quality of life or spread of utilities for the class. As it appears to be the only thing really brought into the last patch it seems a complete waste of time.

Agreed

[Matt_Comtois]

The developer's did talk about the changes being made...

 

Annihilation/Watchman Rotation Design Philosophy:

 

Defensive Forms:

I read that days ago and it makes no sense. They want to make it more challenging and less boring well I am sorry but making the class *******r is not the way to go about it.

[Fordbird]

I think most of you/us are missing the obvious statement the Devs are making. They don't want us to play Maras/Sents right now. We are supposed to be playing a Sorc...or a Sin...or a PT. It seems obvious to me that every 6 months or so a few classes get extreme advantages shelled out to them while the rest of the classes get nerfed. As there are 24 choices between specs, one is able to see how very long a particular spec could potentially remain in the nerf underworld. Mara/Sent players are not the only AC repeatedly asking for QoL changes and being ignored. Gunslingers/Snipers and Mercs/Mandos also have very little survivability and viability in ranked ATM also. Edited May 27, 2015 by Fordbird

[fujeotwo]

Here's your new rotation Annie.

 

 

• Leap = | + 4 Focus | 4 Focus | 12 sec cd | 12sec
  
• Zealous = | + 6 Focus | 10 Focus | 15sec cd | 10.5 sec
  
• Overload = | - 3 Focus | 7 Focus | 12sec cd | 9 sec
  
• Merciless = | - 3 Focus | 4 Focus | 9 sec cd | 9sec
  
• Cauterize = | - 2 Focus | 2 Focus | 6sec cd | 7.5sec
  
• Rend = | - 1 Focus | 1 Focus | No cd | 6 sec
  
• Master = | - 0 Focus | Focus | 18sec cd | 1.5 sec
  
• 1 rage + 20% chance per second for 9 seconds with 3 dots, 1 GCD for situational abilities/filler
  
• Leap = | + 4 Focus | 10 Focus | 12 sec cd | 12 sec
  
• Overload = | - 3 Focus | 7 Focus | 12 sec cd | 10.5 sec
  
• Merciless = | - 3 Focus | 4 Focus | 6 sec cd | 10.5 sec
  
• Cauterize = | - 2 Focus | 2 Focus | 6 sec cd | 9 sec
  
• Zealous = | + 6 Focus | 7 Focus | 15 sec cd | 6 sec
  
• Slash = | -2 Focus | 5 Focus | No cd | 4.5 sec
  
• Merciless = | - 3 Focus | 2 Focus | 6 sec cd | 3 sec
  
• Cauterize = | - 2 Focus | 0 Focus | 6 sec cd | 3 sec
  
• 0 rage + 20% chance per second for 9 seconds with 3 dots
  
• Rend = | - 1 Focus | 8 Focus | 1.5 sec
  
• 1 GCD for situational abilities/filler
  
• Reset/Adjust rotation according to CD's/Focus
  

 

From a Merc player.

[xAgonyyy]

How exactly is this a nerf? Stop complaining pve casuals

[Aztian]

this is just nuts really nuts ...i am lost for words

[EenVooral]

Here's your new rotation Annie.

 

 

• Leap = | + 4 Focus | 4 Focus | 12 sec cd | 12sec
  
• Zealous = | + 6 Focus | 10 Focus | 15sec cd | 10.5 sec
  
• Overload = | - 3 Focus | 7 Focus | 12sec cd | 9 sec
  
• Merciless = | - 3 Focus | 4 Focus | 9 sec cd | 9sec
  
• Cauterize = | - 2 Focus | 2 Focus | 6sec cd | 7.5sec
  
• Rend = | - 1 Focus | 1 Focus | No cd | 6 sec
  
• Master = | - 0 Focus | Focus | 18sec cd | 1.5 sec
  
• 1 rage + 20% chance per second for 9 seconds with 3 dots, 1 GCD for situational abilities/filler
  
• Leap = | + 4 Focus | 10 Focus | 12 sec cd | 12 sec
  
• Overload = | - 3 Focus | 7 Focus | 12 sec cd | 10.5 sec
  
• Merciless = | - 3 Focus | 4 Focus | 6 sec cd | 10.5 sec
  
• Cauterize = | - 2 Focus | 2 Focus | 6 sec cd | 9 sec
  
• Zealous = | + 6 Focus | 7 Focus | 15 sec cd | 6 sec
  
• Slash = | -2 Focus | 5 Focus | No cd | 4.5 sec
  
• Merciless = | - 3 Focus | 2 Focus | 6 sec cd | 3 sec
  
• Cauterize = | - 2 Focus | 0 Focus | 6 sec cd | 3 sec
  
• 0 rage + 20% chance per second for 9 seconds with 3 dots
  
• Rend = | - 1 Focus | 8 Focus | 1.5 sec
  
• 1 GCD for situational abilities/filler
  
• Reset/Adjust rotation according to CD's/Focus
  

 

From a Merc player.

 

Only a 300+ dps loss from pre-patch.

[duelsaberman]

I don't understand why maras/sents have the only set of utilities that require speccing into multiple utilities for the best results. No other class requires speccing into a pair of utilities for any kind of use and maras/sents have more than one like this, such as the predation cd and predation speed buff/root break; leg slash range increase and leg slash root; previously undying cd reduction and increase duration which they finally just fixxed this one.

It seems like there was no thought put into these decisions and its clear they do not play a mara/sent in pvp, at least not competitively.

[Katendal]

How exactly is this a nerf? Stop complaining pve casuals

 

Its a nerf because the spec does less dmg than it did before the patch, pretty much the entire definition of a nerf.

 

Watchman is now a broken mess of *****, and I've been progression raiding on it since launch. I didnt think it was possible to break sentinel anymore, but hats off to BW, they really really did.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Its a nerf because the spec does less dmg than it did before the patch, pretty much the entire definition of a nerf.

 

Watchman is now a broken mess of *****, and I've been progression raiding on it since launch. I didnt think it was possible to break sentinel anymore, but hats off to BW, they really really did.

 

Check his post backlist and you know what to make of his comments...

[AnimalSpartan]

Am I the only one parsing higher with 3.2.1? I still prefer the playstyle back before 3.0, but not really seeing a decrease like most are...

[jauvtus]

Am I the only one parsing higher with 3.2.1? I still prefer the playstyle back before 3.0, but not really seeing a decrease like most are...

 

Yes you are.