Looting Rules in PuGs.

[Zavokka]

A couple different PuG looting rule change options that I think would be a vast improvement over the current system of "anyone can roll need on anything even if they can't use it":

 

1) The NEED button should not be click-able if it doesn't have your class's primary stat. (i.e. BH and Trooper can't roll NEED on gear that has willpower on it, and likewise, Sorcerers and Consulars can't roll NEED on gear that has aim).

 

2) All loot is assigned randomly with no clicking on rolls.

 

3) Take all loot gear out of flashpoints.

[Anaesha]

A couple different PuG looting rule change options that I think would be a vast improvement over the current system of "anyone can roll need on anything even if they can't use it":

 

1) The NEED button should not be click-able if it doesn't have your class's primary stat. (i.e. BH and Trooper can't roll NEED on gear that has willpower on it, and likewise, Sorcerers and Consulars can't roll NEED on gear that has aim).

 

2) All loot is assigned randomly with no clicking on rolls.

 

3) Take all loot gear out of flashpoints.

 

None of these are practical.

 

1: Some people will ask if they can have the item for a comp if everyone agrees rolling need is the best way to ensure you get it.

 

2: It doesn't make any sense what so ever.

 

3: This is the most impractical one of them all.

[Avorniel]

while I agree with the op's ideas,I came across another situation now doing pug FP runs players are rolling need on armour that is not for thier class for apperance slots....happened to me today some jugg rolled need on my snipers chest and then said it looked nice and wore it as apperance.....something needs to be done about loot rolls.

[branmakmuffin]

Give everyone their own loot table like LotRO does and I have heard GW2 does.

[Terrorus]

Give everyone their own loot table like LotRO does and I have heard GW2 does.

 

I have never played either of those games. How the individualised loot tables work?

[Henge_Wolf]

WoW recently ditched need/greed (for the most part) too. It's always going to be a potential source of drama, so they came up with "personal loot," meaning you just had a percentage chance to loot whatever from the boss (always for your spec, of course), or like 3 gold if you didn't meet it. I actually liked that system much better and maybe that would work here.

[Psychopyro]

I have never played either of those games. How the individualised loot tables work?

 

So a Runekeeper and a Champion walk into a bar.... oh wait....

 

Ok, so say an Inquisitor and an Agent go into the same instance together. Now each boss drops loot. However, each player gets their own loot based on their class.

 

So you walk up to the chest, Inquisitor opens that chest. Inquisitor gets gear drops based on their main class (not the advanced line). So the gear would be Willpower based. There would also be a chance at any rare items based on the loot table. None of these items would be rolled on...

 

Now the Agent walks up to the chest. Same thing. They loot the chest, and get a gear drop based on their class, which would be a Cunning piece. Then the system would basically roll again at the rare loot table for that character, which again would not be rolled on against the other player.

 

So say an item like a Deco could drop for both of them, neither of them, or only one of them, but it would not be rolled on by either one, whoever the item dropped for in the chest would get it.

[Mithros]

Individual loot seems the best to me.

 

Not every drop needs to be some epic loot for the flashpoint or op, just let the players find what they find without having to deal with the other players to get it.

 

So you could run Esseles or Black Talon (for easy examples) and maybe not get any of the moddable gear for your class, but it wouldn't be because of what the other players did.

On the other hand, maybe three troopers were running the same flashpoint and they could all get a good drop from the same boss.

 

When the RNG doesn't cooperate it's just one of those things.

When a jerk player rolls need on that autocannon you have run and re-run a flashpoint for while they can;t equip it for themselves or any of their companions and are only doing it for the credits they will get selling it to a vendor, it's no longer "one of those things", it's a selfish act by someone that doesn't care at all about anyone else.

 

Why should I be forced to suffer what these fools do? Why in a game where grouping is required for some things should one person in that group be able to make that experience un-fun in this manner?

 

It's enough that some people say what they say for no reason other than to aggravate, but for them to be able to take the loot (that they can not use) that was the reason you were running the flashpoint/op in the first place is adding insult to injury.

[AdrianDmitruk]

IMO we would still need to keep the bind timer grace period, even if we moved to an individual loot system.

 

I played LotRO for a while, and that game had individualized loot. My guildies helped me run an instance about 1200 times to (try to) help me get a specific loot drop that had approximately a 1% drop per player chance. I had to watch the same guildies win the same item that I wanted 6 or 7 times over, and I never did win that item even though everyone else had it--the individual loot always assigned it to someone else even when I was literally the only player in the instance who wasn't already in possession of the item.

 

Under need/greed, I would have gotten the item after about 3-400 runs, after everyone else in my guild had it. I still would have been the last to loot it, but would not have been prevented from obtaining the item entirely by redundant bound loot assignments. In this case I had a guild literally dropping everything to try to help me get an item but "individual loot" meant it was all for naught even as they won redundant copies of it. :/

 

Eventually I gave up and quit the game. FWIW, that wasn't the only place in the game that had terribad RNG--I had similar issues trying to gain more than three legacies on my offhand. Imagine a system where mainhands and offhands have 6 mod slots instead of 3, you can put any mod into the first 3 slots, but the second set of three you must roll, with each slot a separate roll, to determine if you will be able to use purple mods or those last 3 slots will be limited to green mods only (I refer to major and minor legacies, respectively, if anyone has played the game). Needless to say I got stuck grinding through about 15 useless, 3-minor legacy (i.e. green) offhands before that--a total of 45 rolls and not ONE major legacy slot, i.e. 4th purple slot to continue my analogy--along with the situation described above, drove me from the game.

 

I can see the (potential) merits of individual loot but it must continue to allow for the option to trade loot within the flashpoint to smooth out bad RNG when one player wins an item they don't need, and are willing to trade to another player who clearly needs it. That would probably be a bit much to expect from GF pugs, but would be useful in guild runs (isn't master looter only enabled in ops groups?).

Edited May 28, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[Saito_Hiraga]

:NO: I love giving my trooper Jedi looking armor.

[Drewvwuviwv]

The pugs seem to fail frequently. The ultimate goal is I believe to join a regular group of trusted individuals. Now the issue with that is how involved am I willing to get over the issue of getting some gear? I don't see how you can restrict the gear received when there is so many companions, off-spec and alts to gear up. If a player got the gear they needed right away there would be less people pugging. So the loot roles keep the group finder active. I am not really wanting to admit it but finding people to play with in depth has been " An Adventure!" Getting involved with voice chat was like a " trip down the rabbit hole." In some *whisper (guilds) the things young kids type is bad enough to read. I would fear incarceration if I listened to it in person. And back on track. The loot roll system fits the games needs. I doubt it will change much.

 

My suggestion is to find friends if you want to get the gear you need.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Drewvwuviwv

[branmakmuffin]

I have never played either of those games. How the individualised loot tables work?

Everyone gets their own loot table with the chance of each potential item in it. So theoretically, if an item has a 5% chance to drop, every person could get their own copy of it.

[Orizuru]

I wouldn't be opposed to individual loot when grouping with pugs, but I would like the current loot rules when I'm going solo or with a preformed group.

 

Sometimes my friends and I will run a pre-formed group to get specific items that would cause drama if the person seeking the item needed on it in a group setting where reserved loot isn't appropriate. We do this to get specific shells for specific looks for the most part.

[FerkWork]

With the amount of comms and gear costs super cheap, equipment is like dime a dozen. While in bad tastes to roll need one something you can't really use, it's not the end of the world and I can just go get gear from the vendor. I don't see how this is still an issue.

Individual loot wouldn't happen because BW loves us to grind missions. Although it would be fun on the Monolith

[FerkWork]

A couple different PuG looting rule change options that I think would be a vast improvement over the current system of "anyone can roll need on anything even if they can't use it":

 

1) The NEED button should not be click-able if it doesn't have your class's primary stat. (i.e. BH and Trooper can't roll NEED on gear that has willpower on it, and likewise, Sorcerers and Consulars can't roll NEED on gear that has aim).

 

2) All loot is assigned randomly with no clicking on rolls.

 

3) Take all loot gear out of flashpoints.

 

1) Dumb because no one uses the mods or Armoring on Mk-2. Only the Enhacements are good and they lack primary stat. Rest are token pieces. Also, people maybe running alts and needing for other toons due to legacy

2) That contradicts the intentions of 1

3)See my previous post. The daily alone is enough to buy a whole set of armor. Who runs FP for gear is beyond me

Edited May 28, 2015 by FerkWork

[Henge_Wolf]

But you SHOULD be able to run FPs for gear, that's the point. And if that can't be the case, at least let us sell it on the GTN. I see a few people with this opinion but it boggles me. Yes, you can get gear other ways, but FPs take time, it would be nice to get the gear as well as the comms.

 

My first hard-mode FP we did a guild run, the healer left, we tried to get a guild healer in queue but got a random healer instead. They won the roll of the gear I needed and bailed, while I'm pretty sure the guild would've just given it to me. I'm not complaining, but it was disappointing, especially since I was new and spent just over 50k on wipes. It was 192 gear and I'm still wearing a mixture of 190s and 186s, I totally could've used it. And our guild can't always get full runs, we usually have to pug with 1-2 people. I'm not asking to be just handed gear, but saying you shouldn't run FPs expecting a bit of gear to drop is just dumb, imo. I'd rather do it that way than dailies, honestly.

 

But this has always been a problem in MMOs, granted. It was so easy to outlevel heroic 5-man gear in WoW that they quickly became pointless for gear as well. If you are doing multi-person instanced content, you should be able to get some gear out of it. If that's "not how the game works" something is wrong.