Females never given flirt options?

[scionave]

I have to agree with pretty much the entire post above. I haven't gotten far enough in, but Bioware is usually very good about this. I am highly disappointed they failed to give female characters enough flirts. It does seem highly sexist. Then again, I do wonder if perhaps it was an oversight because it does seem like there is A LOT into this as far as character building. I feel they could do Much more though, and I hope they don't continue this way.

[masterleonidas]

I agree also. Playing as a male jedi knight I wouldn't know but that does seem sexist. If the developers don't know how women flirt they could at least have male characters flirt with them and have them react how they want. By the way, what are the romance options for a male jedi knight? I haven't gotten very far into the game and I just want a heads up on that.

[MistressMagee]

I am a female, and play a female sith warrior toon - I would love to see more flirt options for her, but perhaps a little bit more serious? She seems the type to expect someone to flirt back before she goes in for the "hunt", I like subtle approaches .

 

I would also like to flirt with other female NPCs as a female toon. Same goes with male on male flirting. I sort of hope that bug boy for the IA can swing both ways... I really want him for my male IA toon. Also that undercover balmorran spy seemed almost interested in my male AI - hopefully with new patches he will be open for some love

[Randehman]

What you're talking about isn't sexism. Game designers did not sit around and dismiss a full set of flirting for female characters because they do not value females as equals to men. Making game is about making money, and market appeal is one of the key factors - the wider your appeal the more money. No modern AAA-title game developer has narrowed their game's appeal purely out of spite for a subsection of customer because that would be out of spite of MONEY and games are a business.

 

There's only three real reasons why there's a disparity and neither have anything to do with sexism:

 

1) Bioware didn't anticipate that players would want their female characters to be as flirty so they focused their time / budget on other aspects of the game instead.

 

2) Bioware did want to include as many female flirting options, but flat out ran out of time / budget - their voice over budget must have been well in the 7-digits based on what I've seen. Instead of writing and recording alternate NPC sequences for both sexes they decided to pick just a few sex/class combinations they thought would be the most popular and fit the best with their storylines.

 

3) LucasArts said no, and since they own the license, their hands were tied.

 

I'm doubting it was 3. Since they've already promised to add in same-sex relationships post-launch, I'm guessing it's more like 2 - something they wanted but ran out of time / budget to accomplish before launch.

 

If you want more flirty options, let them know and keep paying them your subscription fees. Based on Bioware's past customer base relationship, if enough people ask for it they'll gladly add it to the game when they can.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Randehman

[Temeluchus]

My female guildies and I have discovered that playing a female Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, and Trooper toons have basically ZERO flirt options throught the entire game play.

 

(The only exception is when we meet our courting companion and we flirt about three times and then it is over for the durration of the game.)

 

Originally we suspected it was simply because of the class we were playing until we learned that our male guildies--who play characters of the same class--have several flirt options all throughout the game. It is not specific to class, it is specific to female characters alone.

 

We feel this is quite sexist and are very dissapointed that the males of the same class toon have more flirt options.

 

We ask that you re-think future writings on how the genders are played, and please do not make the females so entirely boring and frigid. Let us have a little more personality.

 

Thank you.

 

The OP does realize that the Jedi are given less flirt and lovins options because it's against the rules for them and that it(in beta anyways) awards DS points when it does present itself?

 

My female IA has the flirt option quite frequently, of course the IAs appear to be the "loose" men and women of the galaxy.

[Couac]

What you're talking about isn't sexism. Game designers did not sit around and dismiss a full set of flirting for female characters because they do not value females as equals to men. Making game is about making money, and market appeal is one of the key factors - the wider your appeal the more money. No modern AAA-title game developer has narrowed their game's appeal purely out of spite for a subsection of customer because that would be out of spite of MONEY and games are a business.

 

You're contradicting yourself. The very fact that they didn't bother to use part of their budget to make same options for both genders proves that they don't value women as much as men.

 

And what you call a "subsection" of customers is a pretty damn large part of the community! Which only reveals that you are a sexist as you don't even acknowledge that women can be just as important customers than men.

 

There's only three real reasons why there's a disparity and neither have anything to do with sexism:

 

1) Bioware didn't anticipate that players would want their female characters to be as flirty so they focused their time / budget on other aspects of the game instead.

 

Why in the world someone wouldn't anticipate women to be flirty? This is totally beyond me, do you think women just sit at home and wait for men to come beat the door in and carry them in a cave?

 

2) Bioware did want to include as many female flirting options, but flat out ran out of time / budget - their voice over budget must have been well in the 7-digits based on what I've seen. Instead of writing and recording alternate NPC sequences for both sexes they decided to pick just a few sex/class combinations they thought would be the most popular and fit the best with their storylines.

 

Again, proves against your argument. Men are valuable customers but hell, we're not giving women tha same rights as men even though they pay just as much for this game as them!

 

EDIT: Besides, how much more does it cost to write a flirt option? About the same as it would cost to write a normal reply, right?

 

3) LucasArts said no, and since they own the license, their hands were tied.

 

LucasArts doesn't get involved in specific conversation options, they're more interested in making the lore work as intended.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Couac

[Couac]

I thought I'd finally found a male NPC I could flirt with and actually get some action from, and what do I get? An anti-radiation shield. Seriously. Thanks.

 

You should giggle and blush and then go gossip with your female companion about how cute he is.

 

According to this game, female NPCs are sexmaniacs and male NPCs have been castrated.

[Takayo]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not but you have been warned.

 

 

 

During the class quest on alderaan I was able to seduce the sith dude whats her name had as a bodyguard, then when it was over I told him the sound of his voice was making me sick, it was awesome. (I play a female twi'lek assassin)

 

[Shaz]

I've noticed this too. I see my husband's characters flirting left and right, and I'm right here beside him so I get to laugh and enjoy it. He's gotten to laugh at my Smuggler, but when I play my Inquisitor, he keeps asking about it... and I keep saying, sorry, it hasn't happened yet. Not at all.

 

Hey, I want some, too.

 

It's sad to see that BioWare seems to have hardly even thought of or considered this. Did it not occur to them that females would enjoy the flirting, too? They obviously thought of, planned out, and executed it for the guys, and yet never considered the gals would like the same.

 

Male privilege? Sexism? Discrimination? Whatever you choose to call it, the discrepancy is still quite evident and quite sad.

 

My girls aren't sticks in the mud. Let them have fun!

Edited December 30, 2011 by Shaz

[PhoenixDream]

BioWare probity didn't have as much say in the writing department as they normally do since they were working with Lucasarts. Remember in the Star Wars movies, I don't think there was even one female in the Empire and if there was she was unmemorable. So apparently Lucasarts thinks all women are good girls and never make the first move in a relationship. /rolls-eyes

 

The game has expanded in other ways beyond the movies. This shouldn't have been one of them.

 

On a side note: I'm going through the romance storyline with my companion Doc and I have to say the guy is a shallow inconsiderate idiot. I really really liked him until the courtship started and I realize now that he is totally worthless.

 

 

Yes it is funny to finally have some flirt options (even if it is ONLY with my own companion) but to go from no flirt options at all to someone who is a total jerk who (who I am supposed to have the option to hook up with), who stands women up at the altar AND tells them it's their fault for taking him seriously when her family showed up for the wedding (speaking to a different npc woman in the game than me)... YEAH that's really showing me that they think the women in this game are good girls to get involved with this guy.

 

And then to turn around a second later and ask for time alone with me in the bedroom REALLY tells me that whoever wrote the female storylines and courtship scenarios truly has no clue.

 

[PhoenixDream]

What you're talking about isn't sexism. Game designers did not sit around and dismiss a full set of flirting for female characters because they do not value females as equals to men. Making game is about making money, and market appeal is one of the key factors - the wider your appeal the more money. No modern AAA-title game developer has narrowed their game's appeal purely out of spite for a subsection of customer because that would be out of spite of MONEY and games are a business.

 

There's only three real reasons why there's a disparity and neither have anything to do with sexism:

 

1) Bioware didn't anticipate that players would want their female characters to be as flirty so they focused their time / budget on other aspects of the game instead.

 

2) Bioware did want to include as many female flirting options, but flat out ran out of time / budget - their voice over budget must have been well in the 7-digits based on what I've seen. Instead of writing and recording alternate NPC sequences for both sexes they decided to pick just a few sex/class combinations they thought would be the most popular and fit the best with their storylines.

 

3) LucasArts said no, and since they own the license, their hands were tied.

 

I'm doubting it was 3. Since they've already promised to add in same-sex relationships post-launch, I'm guessing it's more like 2 - something they wanted but ran out of time / budget to accomplish before launch.

 

If you want more flirty options, let them know and keep paying them your subscription fees. Based on Bioware's past customer base relationship, if enough people ask for it they'll gladly add it to the game when they can.

 

Somehow I have a hard time believing your speculation. This game is written for the heterosexual male. And when the same sex relationships come out I guarantee you that it will be almost exclusively witten for women/women relationships because that is what hetero males enjoy.

 

Time will tell. And with this current track record, you just wait and see what they spend more time on.

 

But if in the end there are more flirt options with women (by my female toon) than there are with men... then THAT will really be saying something about who writes this thing and about who this game is directed to.

 

But time and budget has no bearing on the fact that SOMETHING was written and SOMETHING was recorded for voice overs, and they simply CHOSE for it not to include many flirt options.

 

I cannot see budget being part of this at all whatsoever.

Edited December 30, 2011 by PhoenixDream

[blurplemoon]

I got male and female juggernauts and did same quest on both characters

 

till lvl 20

my male could flirt with about 4 npc + sleep with one

while my female did not have any choices like this...

 

one sided

[PhoenixDream]

I agree also. Playing as a male jedi knight I wouldn't know but that does seem sexist. If the developers don't know how women flirt they could at least have male characters flirt with them and have them react how they want. By the way, what are the romance options for a male jedi knight? I haven't gotten very far into the game and I just want a heads up on that.

 

If the developers don't know how women flirt then they should hire a woman to write the female flirt script. Easy fix there.

 

 

Jedi Knight female only ever flirts with Doc. And it gets really ridiculous and totally grating the way he behaves. It isn't courship at all, he is a skank with no morals and expects to get what he wants from my toon as well. And the flirt options for me are that I have to be a comlete idiot and love every stupid thing he says... and believe me it is truly stupid.

 

Males, get a lot of flirt options in comparison with npc's and from what I have heard my guy friends REALLY like the storyline romancing Kira. Again... not fair!

 

[PhoenixDream]

The OP does realize that the Jedi are given less flirt and lovins options because it's against the rules for them and that it(in beta anyways) awards DS points when it does present itself?

 

My female IA has the flirt option quite frequently, of course the IAs appear to be the "loose" men and women of the galaxy.

 

That is what I thought at first, but then I learned that MALE jedi's get flirt options when FEMALE ones don't. My OP says that, and that is what my issue is.

 

If male Jedi's didn't get the flirt options either simply because they were a jedi I wouldn't be complaining.

[Adelaine]

This is something I noticed as well on my trooper but I'm not too bothered. I played a Sith inquisitor for a bit as well before and found them much more enjoyable so there does seem to be some variations to it. That said I'm completly convinced that male characters will always have more no matter in the end. I also noticed that several classes seems to have two female love interests but I yet to hear of a class that has two male ones.

 

Not only that but Bioware managed to outdo themselves in their utterly horrible choices for female LI's. Small spoiler ahead about the identity of the Imperial agent LI so be warned. At any rate I thought LI's with cute voices but horrible races that just don't mix with humans (Turian, Mass effect) was the worst possibly combination of a loving personality stuck in the wrong body they could come up with but they made one better for this game. The Imperial agent's LI is a human connected to the Killik hive mind! It's pretty much a damn insect and we are suppose to flirt with this thing?!

[Couac]

whoever wrote the female storylines and courtship scenarios truly has no clue.

 

I talked about this with a friend. I told her that some people think the lack of flirting depends on either a) writers not having a clue about women or b) writers think women have no sex life or sex drive (which in itself is interesting, do men whoop each other in real life then?)

 

She said - exaggeratingly, of course - "Well, what did you expect? How does a bunch of nerdy male writers who have no experience of women write credible stories for women? They probably think women have no sex drive at all simply because women don't ever show interest in them."

[JadeBranch]

What you're talking about isn't sexism. Game designers did not sit around and dismiss a full set of flirting for female characters because they do not value females as equals to men. Making game is about making money, and market appeal is one of the key factors - the wider your appeal the more money. No modern AAA-title game developer has narrowed their game's appeal purely out of spite for a subsection of customer because that would be out of spite of MONEY and games are a business.

 

There's only three real reasons why there's a disparity and neither have anything to do with sexism:

 

1) Bioware didn't anticipate that players would want their female characters to be as flirty so they focused their time / budget on other aspects of the game instead.

 

2) Bioware did want to include as many female flirting options, but flat out ran out of time / budget - their voice over budget must have been well in the 7-digits based on what I've seen. Instead of writing and recording alternate NPC sequences for both sexes they decided to pick just a few sex/class combinations they thought would be the most popular and fit the best with their storylines.

 

3) LucasArts said no, and since they own the license, their hands were tied.

 

I'm doubting it was 3. Since they've already promised to add in same-sex relationships post-launch, I'm guessing it's more like 2 - something they wanted but ran out of time / budget to accomplish before launch.

 

If you want more flirty options, let them know and keep paying them your subscription fees. Based on Bioware's past customer base relationship, if enough people ask for it they'll gladly add it to the game when they can.

 

 

OR it could have just been overlooked. You present three reasons as if they are the only ones possible. We can assume but we don't actually know why. But not including the flirts doesn't seem like it would be a budget thing. Instead of having her say X make her say Y.

 

It does seem rather sexist that they did not give females flirts however, not because they have something against females, but just because they might not know any better.

 

From my experience, most people who are racist/sexist don't know that they are.

[grania]

Maybe the problem is some men don't realize they're being flirted with unless it's extremely overt. They don't realize how flirty women really are. I know my husband misses the cues sometimes. >.>

[Darthmoriquendi]

I play a female sith warrior and have a lot of flirt options. Since i am romancing malavai quinn it seems i have had more opportunity lately with other npc's but it may have something to do wth the romance line. maybe to cause jealousy, kick it up some or whatever the reason. havent really had problems with communicating with my companion either. Its just level and affection based.......even when it shows they want to talk to you and you have high affection rating, sometimes you have to wait till you reach a certain point in the story line to get them to open up.......I love my companion! hes so cute when he gets flustered.

[Couac]

If you start a conversation with a snappy comment, does it destroy any chance of having a flirt option later with the same person?

[Darthmoriquendi]

This is something I noticed as well on my trooper but I'm not too bothered. I played a Sith inquisitor for a bit as well before and found them much more enjoyable so there does seem to be some variations to it. That said I'm completly convinced that male characters will always have more no matter in the end. I also noticed that several classes seems to have two female love interests but I yet to hear of a class that has two male ones.

 

Not only that but Bioware managed to outdo themselves in their utterly horrible choices for female LI's. Small spoiler ahead about the identity of the Imperial agent LI so be warned. At any rate I thought LI's with cute voices but horrible races that just don't mix with humans (Turian, Mass effect) was the worst possibly combination of a loving personality stuck in the wrong body they could come up with but they made one better for this game. The Imperial agent's LI is a human connected to the Killik hive mind! It's pretty much a damn insect and we are suppose to flirt with this thing?!

 

 

 

With my female sith warrior i do have 2 options for love interest. Malavai quinn and LT. Peirce Not sure on any others as i have not played any other professions that high level yet.

[Darthmoriquendi]

I was just curious, for those that are not getting a lot of flirt options, are you doing all the side quests or just a few and the class quests. There seems to be quite a few flirt options in some of the side quests at least that i noticed.

[Couac]

I have done all quests. I'm only lvl 25 now, though. But then on the other hand it also depends on your playstyle. Mine is quite straightforward "less talk, more action" and I have only seen one flirt option thus far. But in any case I was expecting a lot more for an IA.

[Cosmoz]

Maybe they figured female toons would get enough flirting from male players and NPC's would just put the whole thing too far over the top.

[Couac]

Maybe they figured female toons would get enough flirting from male players and NPC's would just put the whole thing too far over the top.

 

The things I've heard from male players during the past years don't really count as "flirting", more like sexual harassment.

 

What's that one site dedicated to reporting these encounters, anyone remember?

Edited December 30, 2011 by Couac