Overpowered healings killing pvp

[teclado]

Yeah, an operative healer has the tools to be nearly impossible to kill. It's just that they can't do a whole lot of healing if they are running for their life.

 

I think that Sage/Sorc healing needs to be tuned down a bit. This is something that is true for PVE operations as well as warzones. Sage/Sorc healing is much better than operative or merc, in terms of sheer HPS output. Of course, matchmaking to ensure that the distribution of healers is not lop-sided would be nice. If the game is same faction, why can't the system attempt to divide up the healers a little more fairly? Why do we see games with e.g. 3v1? Limit groups to one healer per 4 man group. Don't put two four man groups on the same team, unless the other team also has a four man group. Stuff like that.

[SgtGrumbles]

How about instead of nerfing them, we get more tools in the chest to beat them? I'm ok with nerfing sorc heals but BW will never do that for pve reasons. Why not give DPS more healing debuffs? Or how about a guard debuff? Make tuant apply a 5% healing/guard debuff, stackable up to 5 times. Still requires skill, and teamwork to beat them, but helps break the boring stalemates that happen because of the proliferation of healers and their pocket tanks., and doesn't affect PVE. As it is now, it's not that they cannot be killed, it's just that it takes too damn long, and the prerequisite skill required is too great compared to the healers skill level. I'm tired of having voidstars where theres no chance of getting the plant because by the time you've killed the healers, and then the other defenders, the healers are back from respawn, and it starts again. Boooorrrrrring.

[leonlotus]

As far as I can tell the bubble only became an issue when they also got Phasewalk and a massive boost to mobility.

 

Right now they have three chances to reset the fight and heal to full. No other class has this.

 

Agreed.

[Jasynn_X]

First off, the immunity bubble only last a few seconds and only sorcs with the talent to have any bubble heel for small amounts really heal up. For most they heal MAYBE half way. A good sorc will pop their heal over times and then bubble. Any attempt to use an ability while channeling the bubble breaks it. Also, it is on a 3 minute cool down so it's only able to be used judiciously, not spammed.

Second, other classes have similar abilities to more or less be immune. Jugs can pop all their abilities and basically avoid most if not all damage for an equivalent amount of time, you just don't see the bubble. Operative and Sins can go completely stealth and run away to heal. Marauders, similarly can escape the death blows with camo. Snipers can avoid CC's, pulls and being jumped to, plus they significantly reduce damage with cover and shield.

 

It took me a long time to learn to even be viable as a sorc, and I am DPS with limited heals. Most Sorcs who don't know their class die much faster than other classes were players don't really get how to maximize their class defenses.

 

And by the way, Stun locks are a BIGGER problem in PvP, not heals.

 

Look, if you get a good Sorc in PvP who is playing with other good players or even better, with guildies on chat, you will have just as hard of time killing them as any other class doing the same thing. The whole, OP argument is BS.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Jasynn_X

[jedcjedcjedc]

People complaining about bubble like it's what's wrong with the class is just plain funny. Bubble without the utility is a "you get to like 8-10 more seconds" button. frightening indeed. Bubble with the utility is basically enraged defense (something baseline for jugs with no utility needed i might add). they also just sat there for 8 seconds and are prime targets for CC right off the end of it

[Ruhun]

People complaining about bubble like it's what's wrong with the class is just plain funny. Bubble without the utility is a "you get to like 8-10 more seconds" button. frightening indeed. Bubble with the utility is basically enraged defense (something baseline for jugs with no utility needed i might add). they also just sat there for 8 seconds and are prime targets for CC right off the end of it

 

Bubble by itself is not the issue, it's bubble combined with Phasewalk, and a number of other heal to full abilities that make taking down a Sorc an ordeal.

 

.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Ruhun

[chosonman]

Nerf the mobile innervate/healing trance heroic skill. No reason to have that much mobility. And who's brilliant idea was it to give them phase walk? Even worse is cross healing. Lasts get decent match making.

[Anishor]

Yep switching out that skill and the proc on roaming mend would be a great start.

[Coloneli]

First off, the immunity bubble only last a few seconds and only sorcs with the talent to have any bubble heel for small amounts really heal up. For most they heal MAYBE half way. A good sorc will pop their heal over times and then bubble. Any attempt to use an ability while channeling the bubble breaks it. Also, it is on a 3 minute cool down so it's only able to be used judiciously, not spammed.

Second, other classes have similar abilities to more or less be immune. Jugs can pop all their abilities and basically avoid most if not all damage for an equivalent amount of time, you just don't see the bubble. Operative and Sins can go completely stealth and run away to heal. Marauders, similarly can escape the death blows with camo. Snipers can avoid CC's, pulls and being jumped to, plus they significantly reduce damage with cover and shield.

 

It took me a long time to learn to even be viable as a sorc, and I am DPS with limited heals. Most Sorcs who don't know their class die much faster than other classes were players don't really get how to maximize their class defenses.

 

And by the way, Stun locks are a BIGGER problem in PvP, not heals.

 

Look, if you get a good Sorc in PvP who is playing with other good players or even better, with guildies on chat, you will have just as hard of time killing them as any other class doing the same thing. The whole, OP argument is BS.

 

If I had to guess your main I would say sorc Kappa

[JouerTue]

from my experience the problem with nowadays healing is those smart heals. you chase a sorc and every few seconds he casts on the run his wandering heal, which heals for a 15k crit someone he would never heal since he's heavily self tunneling, or he gets a tick from another sorc and he gains 15k hp, randomly from someone who's not always aware of the danger his fellow is facing. the >1 sorc bubbling is not a real issue..if you swap quickly and with decent burst on the other healers they will be too busy staying alive to h2f the guy in the bubble, then back on the guy who ''wasted'' his barrier. it takes a while and he'll probably phase walk and knockback root you and stun you but he'll die. i never had too many issues with cross healing this way..arena or regs..the guy in the bubble will be eventually healed but you are putting a lot of pressure on another healer. it's just that regs have a ridicolous speed when hard switches are involved..

[KashyyykForest]

Well as a person who's favorite spec in the game is TK Sage, I hope whatever changes they make to reduce the effectiveness of Sage healing doesn't hurt the dps specs in the process.

[Volthammer]

...I think healers are fine, considering I can solo kill them, but I do agree when the entire team are sorcs and they have damage, main heals and off heals, it's stupid.There should be diminished returns when you receive targeted heals from multiple players, implementing this would balance teams with a bunch of off-heals.

 

Not ripping on you, Areys, but if you can solo a healer in 65 regs or upper mids....I'm hard pressed to think that that healer, in 65's, isn't in PvP gear. If upper mids then their expertise is likely way below 1936. It's just not doable since 4.0.

[Ruhun]

Not ripping on you, Areys, but if you can solo a healer in 65 regs or upper mids....I'm hard pressed to think that that healer, in 65's, isn't in PvP gear. If upper mids then their expertise is likely way below 1936. It's just not doable since 4.0.

 

They are soloable if they are the only healer on the team.

Once you add cross heals into the equation then yeah they are immortal.

[ForceWelder]

They are soloable if they are the only healer on the team.

Once you add cross heals into the equation then yeah they are immortal.

 

I completely agree.

 

A solo healer on the team can easily be soloed by many of the burst spec classes. But as soon as you throw in guard, taunts, and other healers it becomes an impossibility to do it solo. Especially if said target healer has the immunity bubble.

[ForceWelder]

First off, the immunity bubble only last a few seconds and only sorcs with the talent to have any bubble heel for small amounts really heal up. For most they heal MAYBE half way. A good sorc will pop their heal over times and then bubble. Any attempt to use an ability while channeling the bubble breaks it. Also, it is on a 3 minute cool down so it's only able to be used judiciously, not spammed.

Second, other classes have similar abilities to more or less be immune. Jugs can pop all their abilities and basically avoid most if not all damage for an equivalent amount of time, you just don't see the bubble. Operative and Sins can go completely stealth and run away to heal. Marauders, similarly can escape the death blows with camo. Snipers can avoid CC's, pulls and being jumped to, plus they significantly reduce damage with cover and shield.

 

It took me a long time to learn to even be viable as a sorc, and I am DPS with limited heals. Most Sorcs who don't know their class die much faster than other classes were players don't really get how to maximize their class defenses.

 

And by the way, Stun locks are a BIGGER problem in PvP, not heals.

 

Look, if you get a good Sorc in PvP who is playing with other good players or even better, with guildies on chat, you will have just as hard of time killing them as any other class doing the same thing. The whole, OP argument is BS.

 

I think you have missed the point all together.

 

The issue isn't with immunity bubble by itself. The issue is with immunity bubbled stacked with multiple healers. Plus it is a focus break on top of other existing focus breakers that the class has.

 

Face a team with three healers (two of which will likely be sorc / sages) and you aren't killing anybody. As soon as you get close to dpsing a sorc / sage healer down, they bubble and get healed to full by themselves or by the other healers on the team. And with multiple incoming heals, the possibility of guard and taunts being aimed at the sorc / sage, giving them immunity is a game breaker.

 

In order to take them down takes an ungodly amount of corrdination on the part of the opposing team which just isn't possible when they still have the opposing team's DPS to contend with.

 

Or even worse, both teams have three healers and you end up with a stalemate and nobody completes any objectives.

 

That is the issue here. The issue is the immunity bubble gives them two much defense. Other CC breakers force the player to leave the fight to heal up. Whether that is due to emergency stealth, phasewalk, or burst run away. But with the immunity bubble, the sorc / sage can stay right where they are at and still be in a position to receive all incoming heals while negating all incoming cc or damage.

[Ruhun]

I

In order to take them down takes an ungodly amount of corrdination on the part of the opposing team which just isn't possible when they still have the opposing team's DPS to contend with.

 

Or even worse, both teams have three healers and you end up with a stalemate and nobody completes any objectives.

 

I also think the situation is made worse when you have DPS that can barely break 1K DPS.

It seems to be very common these days, to the point where my measly 2.2k is looked at like some godsend.

[Savej]

I also think the situation is made worse when you have DPS that can barely break 1K DPS.

It seems to be very common these days, to the point where my measly 2.2k is looked at like some godsend.

 

If one side has heals and tanks and sorc bubbles and a couple decent dps and the other side only has dps then the side with just dps is going to get mowed down and turned into a steady stream of targets from spawn - any of them that gets close enough to a healer will have to go through guard, probably taunts and a sorc bubble not to mention roots and other cc and a very mobile target. Decent dps will still do damage. People that ignore objectives or who go to the smaller fights will still do damage. But newbies and people with low morale will not and that's a very bad scenario for learning to not be a newbie; most will only learn how to lose more efficiently to get their comms.

[Ruhun]

If one side has heals and tanks and sorc bubbles and a couple decent dps and the other side only has dps then the side with just dps is going to get mowed down and turned into a steady stream of targets from spawn - any of them that gets close enough to a healer will have to go through guard, probably taunts and a sorc bubble not to mention roots and other cc and a very mobile target. Decent dps will still do damage. People that ignore objectives or who go to the smaller fights will still do damage. But newbies and people with low morale will not and that's a very bad scenario for learning to not be a newbie; most will only learn how to lose more efficiently to get their comms.

 

People that solo rush the main clusterf*ck of sorcs and tanks will get mowed down.

I've seen the same person rush mid no less than 6 times and the Sents at mid blow him to bits.

You can force them to spread out so they aren't cross healing as much.

You rarely win, but it's better than being farmed.

 

If its a match like Voidstar then it's just parsing until the clock runs out.

If the team is any good they will have a healer and tank at each door, with a spare Sage/Sorc to phasewalk between them, and STILL they get 1K dps.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ruhun

[ReinhartRussian]

People complaining about bubble like it's what's wrong with the class is just plain funny. Bubble without the utility is a "you get to like 8-10 more seconds" button. frightening indeed. Bubble with the utility is basically enraged defense (something baseline for jugs with no utility needed i might add). they also just sat there for 8 seconds and are prime targets for CC right off the end of it

 

Immunity Bubble can be popped while being CCed gives you 10 seconds invulnurability also makes you immune to damage AFTER the channeling part is done

 

Enrage defense heals you based of the damage you take. So lets say if you take 10k hit it will heal you still for like 5.6k maybe. while the healing is rather high a lot of people forget that it heals off the damage you take which makes it less effective

 

1 is a complete immunity to damage other is heals on the damage you take. Enraged Defense can be countered by not attacking Jugg?

 

Sorc healing is overtuned that's why we have a lot of them running around atm. Talent that gives them +10% inc healing, mobile trans have to go. Or make Bubble interruptable / CCable so it will take skill to use them

Edited February 5, 2016 by ReinhartRussian

[Ruhun]

Enraged Defense can also be countered by simply not hitting the Jug with it popped. They stay at the same health and after the 10 seconds pass burst it down.

 

Sorcs are immune to everything but CCs 5 - 10 seconds after the bubble is gone, but since everyone and their mother is a sorc chances are its being healed to full by someone else.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ruhun

[kissingaiur]

The major aspect that makes Sorcs strong right now compared to the other healers is that they are incredibility forgiving. No matter how you play the class is relatively decent compared to the other two healing classes which take a little more time in my opinion. I say this because as an Operative you need great HoT refreshing to maintain decent HPS (which 95% don't have) and Mercs who are just bad even at their highest level particularly because of their lack of a real escape. While on the other hand, have seen Sorcs tank 3 people, without kiting and just spamming innervate, bubble and roaming mend. No other class can just stand there and take that kind of a beating without being at risk.

 

I have played all the healing classes and the amount of damage Sorcs can take and mitigate right now is pretty dumb. They can survive almost anything because they have 2 extremely power escapes that forces you to peel off, phase walk and barrier. This is why it takes a lot more patience, coordination and GOOD dps to kill one. This is just talking about an average Sorc then you get a Sorc healer who knows what they are doing they can easily take 2mil damage per death.

 

This is what happens vs. literally every Sorc I see: You finally bursted the Sorc to 10% through all his overtuned burst healing and healing cds. Good, he will just phase walk and heal to full. Then you have to burst the Sorc again through all his overturned burst healing, he will barrier and heal to full. THEN you will have to burst him through all his overtuned healing AGAIN FOR A THIRD TIME and quickly before his phase walk comes back up or you'll never kill the sorc healer.

 

Soluation: Make phase walk on a minute cool down so there is more of a window to kill them before their cds come back up.

[KevinQCowart]

The fact that Bioware gave sorcs phasewalk in 4.0 shows they are totally oblivious to the current state of warzones, and then they added salt in the wound by nerfing all of the burst specs.

 

My solution is to take a very long, possibly permanent, break from warzones. Its just not fun anymore, for the past few weeks I've grimaced everytime I hit the queue button. I've already stripped my augments out and thrown the gear to the back of the cargo bay. #ZeroExpertise

 

Hopefully one day I hear news of some "PvP Focused Expansion" like WoW is doing.

 

Bioware needs pulls their head out of their *** and realize PvP has more replayability then any other game mode and is worth their investment.

Edited February 5, 2016 by KevinQCowart

[xxIncubixx]

sorcs/sage healers are the problem... thro in a guard and gg just quit the warzone and hope the next warzone doesnt have any.

[Ruhun]

sorcs/sage healers are the problem... thro in a guard and gg just quit the warzone and hope the next warzone doesnt have any.

 

GG, next zone has 3 Sorcs.

 

You can't escape them, so learn to deal and wait for a nerf.

[xxIncubixx]

GG, next zone has 3 Sorcs.

 

You can't escape them, so learn to deal and wait for a nerf.

 

nah eventually you will get a decent wz or unsub , learn to deal? unless you have a full premade and organization there is no way to deal with a decent healer (sorc) thro in a guard and its just hilarious.

 

I never played any MMO with healers as broken as sorcs are now (coming from someone that played warhammer online, healers were pretty retarded there aswell which made sense because it was for world pvp). In here they made the healers on the right place for RvR aka world pvp but forgot... THERE is no world pvp on this game

Edited February 5, 2016 by xxIncubixx