Sentinels and Marauders don't want to DoT spread.

[Krazyfuri]

If there is anything at all that needs to change about DoT spread, its to remove it and put the damage on something else.

[Bonzenaattori]

speak for yourself

[Svarthrafn]

DoT spread is a lazy mechanic. Just get rid of it altogether please.

[fpolk]

Concentration used to be good at the AOE some time ago, but it was just a fat hit to the ones in the vicinity. I kind of like how the burns can be spread making for more self heals and damage of course. I think it's nice to have the option to be able to have a spec that can pull off some fat AOE damage rather than have all specs primarily focused on single target dps. So yeah speak for yourself.

[Kakisback]

But then not every class would have a dot spread, and their class homogenization plans would be ruined.

[LunarAshes]

If I wanted to play a melee version of Madness, I'd play Hatred. I picked a dual saber class to hit things twice as much, not to be homogenised into a DoT caster class.

[Zoom_VI]

I don't get it, why are the anti-dotspread threads just now starting here? Annihilations has had a dotspread on Smash since 3.0 dropped.

[fpolk]

But then not every class would have a dot spread, and their class homogenization plans would be ruined.

The plan is to make all classes similar?

 

If I wanted to play a melee version of Madness, I'd play Hatred. I picked a dual saber class to hit things twice as much, not to be homogenised into a DoT caster class.

The got a spec for that.

[LunarAshes]

The got a spec for that.

 

I'm all for having more AoE options as Annihilation but DoT spread is something that melee does very poorly. The only reason it works (better than Mara, anyway) on Vig/Veng is because the damage is frontloaded on the main hit of Vigilant Thrust/Vengeful Slam, doing a solid 8-9k crit, and the skill is completely *free* of resource cost. Anni Smash hits like a wet noodle, making it have nothing that stands out compared to its superior DoT spread counterparts. So yes, while they have a spec for more direct damage, I could also say the same to you if you want to play DoT spread: there's a class for that.

[Maxymus]

Now I don't play watchman because I don't care for dots, but why is it a problem for there to be a spec for dots in the first place? Mind you, I feel that being a dot spec requires the ability to spread these dots for max potential. If you don't like dots, shouldn't the solution be to play one of the other two specs? I'm not trying to flame here, I'm genuinely curious. Is it mainly sentimental attachment from playing watchman pre 3.0? I can understand that I suppose. If they are doing dots in a way that's pretty bad for melee, that I can understand too, but again I'd just play a different spec.

 

I'm also not saying that asking for change on the forum is a waste of time, if watchman is broke then by all means let these idiots know lol. All three specs SHOULD be viable.

 

But if you don't want watchman to be a dot spec simply because you don't like dots but also refuse to go combat or focus, I don't think I could understand this. I'm all ears though

Edited May 21, 2015 by Maxymus

[EilahFinn]

Now I don't play watchman because I don't care for dots, but why is it a problem for there to be a spec for dots in the first place? Mind you, I feel that being a dot spec requires the ability to spread these dots for max potential. If you don't like dots, shouldn't the solution be to play one of the other two specs? I'm not trying to flame here, I'm genuinely curious. Is it mainly sentimental attachment from playing watchman pre 3.0? I can understand that I suppose. If they are doing dots in a way that's pretty bad for melee, that I can understand too, but again I'd just play a different spec.

 

I'm also not saying that asking for change on the forum is a waste of time, if watchman is broke then by all means let these idiots know lol. All three specs SHOULD be viable.

 

But if you don't want watchman to be a dot spec simply because you don't like dots but also refuse to go combat or focus, I don't think I could understand this. I'm all ears though

 

If you´d have played all skill trees to their full potential, you wouldn´t ask and search for an explanation.

So, obviously you are somewhat clueless, aren´t you?

There are several threads wich point out the differences and reasons.

You haven´t read them.

 

Your solution "If-you-don´t-like-it-leave-it" is great though.

Why bother with players, who just can´t fathom, why on earth it was so necessary to twist and to butcher this specific skill-tree, wich was one of the most fascinating to me?

 

PVP-wise:

 

It will be much fun to jump in every bunch of players to drive this tree to it´s full potential.

Jump and run in! That´s what every melee should go for. Charge the bunch! Go for it! It´s good for you! Do it!

Run los of your healer! Run into every root and cc that exists to keep melee at bay.

Why not? You can dot-spread now and enjoy this new, awesome and absolutely unwanted fragmention of a once successful skill-tree to something bewildering and weird.

 

But you´re right, mate. Not your problem. It´s mine, obviously. I´ve to adapt to or just leave it.

Good philosophy, really.

It´s so simple, isn´ t it?

Edited May 21, 2015 by EilahFinn

[Ardarell_Solo]

Now I don't play watchman because I don't care for dots, but why is it a problem for there to be a spec for dots in the first place? Mind you, I feel that being a dot spec requires the ability to spread these dots for max potential. If you don't like dots, shouldn't the solution be to play one of the other two specs? I'm not trying to flame here, I'm genuinely curious. Is it mainly sentimental attachment from playing watchman pre 3.0? I can understand that I suppose. If they are doing dots in a way that's pretty bad for melee, that I can understand too, but again I'd just play a different spec.

 

I'm also not saying that asking for change on the forum is a waste of time, if watchman is broke then by all means let these idiots know lol. All three specs SHOULD be viable.

 

But if you don't want watchman to be a dot spec simply because you don't like dots but also refuse to go combat or focus, I don't think I could understand this. I'm all ears though

 

We'd be fine with dotspread, if it was tied to an ability that's part of our rotation, so we don't have to find room and resources in a rotation that is already too tight on both.

 

Vigilance Guardians e.g. will use their Dotspread ability Vigilant Thrust as a filler in their single target roation anyway and it's focus neutral (actually you gain one focus via talent). So their AoE dotspread is actually splash damage, meaning, you do AoE dotspread damage, even if you don't focus on it at all (speaking Torque here e.g.).

 

Watchman never uses Smash in single target rotations and there's neither room nor resource for it. That means you have to completely change your single target rotation to do any AoE damage whatsoever. (The changes try to adress that by buffing its damage, lowering cost and cooldown, but it's still a lot worse than other spec's dotspreading. )

 

This is why basically the whole Sentinel community had begged for Double Saber Throw to become the dot spreading ability: It's part of the single target rotation and it's free.

 

If that had been implemented, you wouldn't see any complaints about the dot spreading mechanics. Cause you're right, with the current design of the classes in regards to that (as questionable as that may be), playing a dot class means you're going to have to handle dot spread. We're just complaining that our dot spreading is the worst of all classes, the most demanding one and not necessarily the most rewarding one.

[Maxymus]

@Eilah, Well I suppose trying to have a civilized discussion was too much to ask for...

 

Enjoy watchman!

Edited May 21, 2015 by Maxymus

[Maxymus]

We'd be fine with dotspread, if it was tied to an ability that's part of our rotation, so we don't have to find room and resources in a rotation that is already too tight on both.

 

Vigilance Guardians e.g. will use their Dotspread ability Vigilant Thrust as a filler in their single target roation anyway and it's focus neutral (actually you gain one focus via talent). So their AoE dotspread is actually splash damage, meaning, you do AoE dotspread damage, even if you don't focus on it at all (speaking Torque here e.g.).

 

Watchman never uses Smash in single target rotations and there's neither room nor resource for it. That means you have to completely change your single target rotation to do any AoE damage whatsoever. (The changes try to adress that by buffing its damage, lowering cost and cooldown, but it's still a lot worse than other spec's dotspreading. )

 

This is why basically the whole Sentinel community had begged for Double Saber Throw to become the dot spreading ability: It's part of the single target rotation and it's free.

 

If that had been implemented, you wouldn't see any complaints about the dot spreading mechanics. Cause you're right, with the current design of the classes in regards to that (as questionable as that may be), playing a dot class means you're going to have to handle dot spread. We're just complaining that our dot spreading is the worst of all classes, the most demanding one and not necessarily the most rewarding one.

 

 

 

Ok this makes perfect sense. So it doesn't need to be removed, just changed to be more practical

[EilahFinn]

@Eilah, Well I suppose trying to have a civilized discussion was too much to ask for...

 

Enjoy watchman!

 

Civilised discussion?

Ah, I was on the wrong track. I was thinking, this thread was about dot-spreading and not dot-using itself.

I had the impression you didn´t know what you´re talking about and you hadn´t read the many threads that answer your specific questions.

My fault.

Enjoy your knowledge.

Edited May 21, 2015 by EilahFinn

[Maxymus]

Civilised discussion?

Ah, I was on the wrong track. I was thinking, this thread was about dot-spreading and not dot-using itself.

I had the impression you didn´t know what you´re talking about and you hadn´t read the many threads that answer your specific questions.

My fault.

Enjoy your knowledge.

 

 

 

I actually made it clear that I don't play the spec, don't plan on playing the spec, and was seeking understanding of the OP's request to remove dot spread altogether. I don't like playing a dot spec, as I stated earlier, but I was saying that I could see the need to spread dots to maximize dot potential. You are correct, I've not read these other threads all that much, and lucky for me I don't have to now, since the other gentleman explained to me what the primary issue is with dots and watchman.

 

My new question is why does it upset you so much that I asked? I made it pretty clear that I wasn't bashing or flaming, and was simply looking to understand.

[Ardarell_Solo]

My new question is why does it upset you so much that I asked? I made it pretty clear that I wasn't bashing or flaming, and was simply looking to understand.

 

Actually that's what I was thinking when I read this thread, hence my attempt to simply explain it :-)

[EilahFinn]

...If they are doing dots in a way that's pretty bad for melee, that I can understand too, but again I'd just play a different spec...

...All three specs SHOULD be viable...

 

I tend to hyperventilate over such contradictions.

You were delivering this solution "... but again I´d just play a different spec...".

 

I wouldn´t have bothered if you just have asked (despite ignoring other threads with topics of these issues). But it sounded to me like "Stop whining and play something else".

 

Watchman has been a masterpiece of singletarget-damage-delivery with an excellent 2% heal ability in the beginning and for whatever reason has turned into a specc whose purpose or assignment in pvp isn´t that clear to me anymore (or simply doesn´t exist).

[Maxymus]

I tend to hyperventilate over such contradictions.

You were delivering this solution "... but again I´d just play a different spec...".

 

 

I see your error, and understand now. Believe me, if I were offering that as a solution, I would have said "just go play another spec". I was, in a very literal sense, stating what I personally would do, and have done in the past when I find one spec more efficient than another(for pvp especially).

 

And yes, when you put my statement above with the last sentence of that completely separate paragraph, then of course it is a contradiction. Hence why they aren't in the same paragraph.

 

I'm of the mindset that while all three specs should be viable, they won't ever be viable for everything, anywhere, anytime(and IMO, shouldn't be). If a spec is viable in certain situations moreso than others, then that's fine by me. According to Ardarell(and others I assume), dot spreading isn't viable because it doesn't fit in a rotation properly(resource management, timing, etc), not because it isn't a viable jackofalltrades spec. THIS warrants forum posts, IMO. With my current understanding of things, I can see the issues with watchman, but still don't understand why the OP wants dot spread removed altogether. And as before, I am all ears as to why it should be removed completely. Just don't be upset if I don't agree with the "but CC problems in pvp" stance, because in regs every freaking sorc out there uses their AOE every chance they get, so if dot spread is viable for sents/marauders, then they should do the same(in my opinion). Stuns that end when damage is taken are, mostly, used to interrupt a cast bar in a mass melee. If someone gets upset that they mass stunned everyone and that stun breaks when damage was done in a mass melee, I'd have to say that said person has extremely unrealistic expectations of their teammates ability to know what the frack everyone else on their team is doing lol.

 

Sorry if that was a bit of a ramble rant there lol. I'll finish with trying to stay on topic though. Can anyone that agrees with the OP state why? And I guess I'll throw in the disclaimer again to avoid more anger... No, I'm not a subject matter expert. No, I've not read other posts, nor will I unless they are linked to THIS thread(because laziness and I feel like if this thread was made to have a point, all facts pertaining to backing said point should be made on this thread, sorry lol). Also, I did play watchman prior to 3.0, but didn't mess with other specs until closer to 3.0 or after 3.0. Never messed with the old focus at all either(or concentration or whatever it was). If anyone feels that my questions are douchy, stupid, lazy, etc, feel free to ignore them. Or hell, respond and state it, I don't care lol. I'm bored and at work for 3 more hours and have time to kill hahaha

[JouerTue]

I don't get it, why are the anti-dotspread threads just now starting here? Annihilations has had a dotspread on Smash since 3.0 dropped.

 

nobody was using smash on anni lol..all spamming ravage and randomly applying dots in my opinion.

 

personally i've never used it in pvp and i don't mind spreading in pve, especially if they nerf self heals.

[fpolk]

I'm all for having more AoE options as Annihilation but DoT spread is something that melee does very poorly. The only reason it works (better than Mara, anyway) on Vig/Veng is because the damage is frontloaded on the main hit of Vigilant Thrust/Vengeful Slam, doing a solid 8-9k crit, and the skill is completely *free* of resource cost. Anni Smash hits like a wet noodle, making it have nothing that stands out compared to its superior DoT spread counterparts. So yes, while they have a spec for more direct damage, I could also say the same to you if you want to play DoT spread: there's a class for that.

That is not saying the same to me.

[Juithtin]

We'd be fine with dotspread, if it was tied to an ability that's part of our rotation, so we don't have to find room and resources in a rotation that is already too tight on both.

 

Vigilance Guardians e.g. will use their Dotspread ability Vigilant Thrust as a filler in their single target roation anyway and it's focus neutral (actually you gain one focus via talent). So their AoE dotspread is actually splash damage, meaning, you do AoE dotspread damage, even if you don't focus on it at all (speaking Torque here e.g.).

 

Watchman never uses Smash in single target rotations and there's neither room nor resource for it. That means you have to completely change your single target rotation to do any AoE damage whatsoever. (The changes try to adress that by buffing its damage, lowering cost and cooldown, but it's still a lot worse than other spec's dotspreading. )

 

This is why basically the whole Sentinel community had begged for Double Saber Throw to become the dot spreading ability: It's part of the single target rotation and it's free.

 

If that had been implemented, you wouldn't see any complaints about the dot spreading mechanics. Cause you're right, with the current design of the classes in regards to that (as questionable as that may be), playing a dot class means you're going to have to handle dot spread. We're just complaining that our dot spreading is the worst of all classes, the most demanding one and not necessarily the most rewarding one.

 

This.

 

Another option I wouldn't mind would be altering Merciless Slash to act the same way Guardian Slash does for Guardian Tanks with the AoE splash. Use Merciless Slash on a burning target, those burns are applied directly to targets within x meters.

[TACeMossie]

This.

 

Another option I wouldn't mind would be altering Merciless Slash to act the same way Guardian Slash does for Guardian Tanks with the AoE splash. Use Merciless Slash on a burning target, those burns are applied directly to targets within x meters.

 

Hell, they could make sweep and merciless share a cooldown, and as long as sweep hit hard enough the DoT spread would be fine.

 

Actually...

 

In an AoE rotation, I'd just drop merciless except when I need to keep the merciless buff on. The extra focus to work with because sweep is 2 focus compared to the 4 -1 focus of merciless is a godsend. And thanks to spreading cauterize, it only needs one target to be worth it.

Plus, before anyone goes complaining about its pathetic normal damage, its ~45% of the damage of an annihilate, so I guess you could say its not that good... but then again, Slash is only 20% more damage and has a restriction of "It can only hit 1 thing" and it also doesn't spread Cauterize + Force Melt so...

Edited May 23, 2015 by TACeMossie

[Juithtin]

Hell, they could make sweep and merciless share a cooldown, and as long as sweep hit hard enough the DoT spread would be fine.

 

Actually...

 

In an AoE rotation, I'd just drop merciless except when I need to keep the merciless buff on. The extra focus to work with because sweep is 2 focus compared to the 4 -1 focus of merciless is a godsend. And thanks to spreading cauterize, it only needs one target to be worth it.

Plus, before anyone goes complaining about its pathetic normal damage, its ~45% of the damage of an annihilate, so I guess you could say its not that good... but then again, Slash is only 20% more damage and has a restriction of "It can only hit 1 thing" and it also doesn't spread Cauterize + Force Melt so...

 

I agree with the AoE rotation, but I wouldn't like Sweep and Merciless Slash on the same cool down. From a pvp perspective, regardless of the dot spread, I wouldn't want my hardest hitting ability on cooldown because I wanted to spread my dots.

[Bonzenaattori]

Hell, they could make sweep and merciless share a cooldown, and as long as sweep hit hard enough the DoT spread would be fine.

 

Actually...

 

In an AoE rotation, I'd just drop merciless except when I need to keep the merciless buff on. The extra focus to work with because sweep is 2 focus compared to the 4 -1 focus of merciless is a godsend. And thanks to spreading cauterize, it only needs one target to be worth it.

Plus, before anyone goes complaining about its pathetic normal damage, its ~45% of the damage of an annihilate, so I guess you could say its not that good... but then again, Slash is only 20% more damage and has a restriction of "It can only hit 1 thing" and it also doesn't spread Cauterize + Force Melt so...

 

I'd prefer they just give a refund mechanic, for every dot you spread refunds you 1 point of focus/rage.

Obviously you have maximum of 2 dots to spread, thus refunding you 2 points making your sweep effectively costing only 1 focus/rage

It's a bit odd if they'd make it share cooldown with merciless as the dot will not even pass half duration when ur sweep would be off cd. Which would simply make you appreciate it less... although i'm not necessarily saying it's a bad idea. I'd love it if it built stacks though, that would be sick

Then again, if they'd change pulverize/plasma blades to affect sweep, it would be... ...mmm, let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we -.-'

Edited May 23, 2015 by Bonzenaattori