6+ Months Later, How Is Ravagers still bugged???

[Tsillah]

Well, this bug only happens to me when so retard, who didn't keep up with the issues, still manages to use pets in operations.

 

Ok, it's a bug and BW should fix this issue, but it's avoidable by not having pets out. When the transition happens from one room to the next it only accounts for 8 or 16 players and the pets are still counted as friendlies and count against the amount of people being transfered and therefore it bugs out because the pets ruin the head count.

 

Stupid? Yeh, but avoidable. Test it if you will, but I've never seen this bug unless somebody has a pet out. We told him to put the pet away and there is no problem. That's my experience with this.

[Zharik]

The part that kills me is that if the developers would stop making new content to spend some extra time fixing the bugs, then the player base would complain about no new content.

 

Double bladed saber that is.

[BrianDavion]

This botched operation has been reported and dicussed ad nausum since 3.0 was released. Either way writing detailed bug reports is something you should get paid to do not something you are PAYING to do. As much money as Bioware is making from their gamble packs not fixing these basic issues has gone from bad, to farsical, to tragic, to just **** this game peace out.

 

it works fine for me.

[BrianDavion]

Well, this bug only happens to me when so retard, who didn't keep up with the issues, still manages to use pets in operations.

 

Ok, it's a bug and BW should fix this issue, but it's avoidable by not having pets out. When the transition happens from one room to the next it only accounts for 8 or 16 players and the pets are still counted as friendlies and count against the amount of people being transfered and therefore it bugs out because the pets ruin the head count.

 

Stupid? Yeh, but avoidable. Test it if you will, but I've never seen this bug unless somebody has a pet out. We told him to put the pet away and there is no problem. That's my experience with this.

 

 

and you should never have pets out during ops anyway.

[DataBeaver]

What BW (and apparently some in this thread) needs to realize is that not all are familiar with Software Development and QA testing. BW needs to improve their feedback processes so that they get the information they need to actually fix the issues.

Yes, they can ask for the information, and they probably do. But those of us that know how to do proper bug reports can speed up the process by doing so. I've been on the supporting side of situations where getting information from the user is like pulling teeth. If it takes two days to get every little piece of information and I need five pieces, that's two weeks before I can even start working on the issue (counting only working days). I don't wish to impose that suffering on my fellow developers, so when I'm on the user side, I include as much information as I can. With open source software, it has happened that while poking around to find the root cause, I develop a fix and can then send a patch instead of a bug report.

 

Of course, no one thinks of everything, so even a well-written bug report may lack the critical piece of information. For instance, someone here mentioned pets; that didn't occur to me since my group doesn't use pets.

[DarthNillard]

Well, this bug only happens to me when so retard, who didn't keep up with the issues, still manages to use pets in operations.

 

Ok, it's a bug and BW should fix this issue, but it's avoidable by not having pets out. When the transition happens from one room to the next it only accounts for 8 or 16 players and the pets are still counted as friendlies and count against the amount of people being transfered and therefore it bugs out because the pets ruin the head count.

 

Stupid? Yeh, but avoidable. Test it if you will, but I've never seen this bug unless somebody has a pet out. We told him to put the pet away and there is no problem. That's my experience with this.

 

The part that kills me is that if the developers would stop making new content to spend some extra time fixing the bugs, then the player base would complain about no new content.

 

Double bladed saber that is.

 

Again, I ran this the same first night with TWO pets out and cleared it fine. So yeah, that's not a thing. But enjoy pretending that's a quick fix <3

[DarthNillard]

Yes, they can ask for the information, and they probably do. But those of us that know how to do proper bug reports can speed up the process by doing so. I've been on the supporting side of situations where getting information from the user is like pulling teeth. If it takes two days to get every little piece of information and I need five pieces, that's two weeks before I can even start working on the issue (counting only working days). I don't wish to impose that suffering on my fellow developers, so when I'm on the user side, I include as much information as I can. With open source software, it has happened that while poking around to find the root cause, I develop a fix and can then send a patch instead of a bug report.

 

Of course, no one thinks of everything, so even a well-written bug report may lack the critical piece of information. For instance, someone here mentioned pets; that didn't occur to me since my group doesn't use pets.

 

Your clearly just a troll slick. I don't care what "official and awesome format" you use for your bogus bug reports, you still get the default auto-generated reply email from R2-DFail droid telling you thanks for the report but you will get no replies. If you honestly think you are helping, you aren't. Once a bug is reported once, that's it. The 9 million other people who bring it up, no matter how in-depth or shallow their reports are, mean nothing. They either allocate the resources to fix it or they don't.

 

As someone else mentioned, there are bugs from launch that still exist. Bioware just has No F's Given when it comes to most things. That's the reality of it all to be honest, whether anyone wants to admit it....

Edited May 20, 2015 by DarthNillard

[Ghisallo]

I'm pretty sure you can do this. They would hook the car up to computers to see what was going on, check for outside damage,etc. A competent mechanic could diagnose the issue and fix it without more input from the owner. Sure it would be helpful to get additional details, but I think they would still able to fix it.

 

Only if the particular issue is hooked into the electronic diagnostic/record system and guess what that is not always the case. Example. I had a 2000 S-10 Blazer. It had a transmission problem. Now the problem ONLY occurred at high way speeds under hard acceleration. If I had not said exactly this the mechanic (and it was the head mechanic at the dealership) said they would not have been able to diagnose the problem because they do not routinely drive the 4 miles to get to the nearest highway for a simple road test. Even when this works it is because your car and it's diagnostic system is 1000 times simpler than the code of an MMO. There are only so many variables to account for...where as a dynamic raid/OPs encounter has a miriad of variables.

 

Now I know, because it is convenient for your argument you will just say "well then the mechanic isn't competent" but that would simply be a weak cop out ignoring the complexity of these issues.

 

So we are back to where we were before...gamers expecting the gaming world to be different than the rl adult world we have to deal with. I get this from teenagers... but if people have a car payment, rent and/or a mortgage to pay I expect more from them... unless they are a 1%er pulling into the Benz dealer with their S63 AMG Coupe... then I expect a bit of elitist "you're the mechanic don't ask me crap" attitude followed by an expectation of same said mechanic "puckering up" to reward them for said attitude.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

As someone else mentioned, there are bugs from launch that still exist. Bioware just has No F's Given when it comes to most things. That's the reality of it all to be honest, whether anyone wants to admit it....

 

And there are bugs in WoW that have been around for 3 years... even longer....Same with EQ and EQ2. Your point with this statement as if BW is some special (meaning bad) little snowflake is simply false on it's face.

[Max_Killjoy]

How is the SoR intro still bugged for most Imp classes?

 

How is it that the same things KEEP breaking (heroic moment cooldown buffs from companions, for example)?

[bdatt]

Ravagers is fine. Develop new operations please because new content is always desired.

[Khryn]

If you honestly think you are helping, you aren't. Once a bug is reported once, that's it. The 9 million other people who bring it up, no matter how in-depth or shallow their reports are, mean nothing. They either allocate the resources to fix it or they don't.

 

As someone else mentioned, there are bugs from launch that still exist. Bioware just has No F's Given when it comes to most things. That's the reality of it all to be honest, whether anyone wants to admit it....

 

 

Wow. You are a sad, bitter person.

 

Just because you don't see your important bug get fixed immediately does not mean reporting it with lots of information doesn't help. In fact I dare say that quite a few bugs have went unfixed because idiots like you decided it either "wasn't going to be even viewed" or just reported something like "RAVAGERS IS BROKE FIX IT NOW."

 

If you don't even TRY to make an effort, how are the devs even going to know what problem we are having? Throwing half a million people at content people are bound to find bugs. Being thorough and letting the devs know exactly what happened makes their job easier, and it may lead it to get fixed. It may not if it's something very complex. This is probably not a database error that an intern can fix. This is probably something deep rooted in the code that could ripple out and break other things if fixed. Or maybe they just can't reproduce it because people like you didn't feel it was necessary to explain what is happening, but just stomped your feet a bit and said "THEY JUST DON'T CARE."

 

 

 

Dear god. The people on this forum . Unbelievable. Bitter. Sad. Ignorant.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Only if the particular issue is hooked into the electronic diagnostic/record system and guess what that is not always the case. Example. I had a 2000 S-10 Blazer. It had a transmission problem. Now the problem ONLY occurred at high way speeds under hard acceleration. If I had not said exactly this the mechanic (and it was the head mechanic at the dealership) said they would not have been able to diagnose the problem because they do not routinely drive the 4 miles to get to the nearest highway for a simple road test. Even when this works it is because your car and it's diagnostic system is 1000 times simpler than the code of an MMO. There are only so many variables to account for...where as a dynamic raid/OPs encounter has a miriad of variables.

 

Now I know, because it is convenient for your argument you will just say "well then the mechanic isn't competent" but that would simply be a weak cop out ignoring the complexity of these issues.

 

So we are back to where we were before...gamers expecting the gaming world to be different than the rl adult world we have to deal with. I get this from teenagers... but if people have a car payment, rent and/or a mortgage to pay I expect more from them... unless they are a 1%er pulling into the Benz dealer with their S63 AMG Coupe... then I expect a bit of elitist "you're the mechanic don't ask me crap" attitude followed by an expectation of same said mechanic "puckering up" to reward them for said attitude.

 

Dude, what's your problem? Seriously, what is it? Do you really have a problem with people expressing their frustration over something that should be a priority fix? This is a raid, the pinnacle of endgame content and has been reported to death, it shoulda been fixed long ago. I don't understand why you're just trolling this thread.

[SnoowMeow]

I have experienced the situation described by the OP once and it was because the escape pod had been clicked by someone that had been rezzed rather than a survivor still in combat. It was the first time I have heard of this particular quirky behavior much less experience it, but ever since then I or someone else in the group has made sure the escape pod is clicked by someone that is still in combat and I have not had the fight bug out like that again.

 

No clue if that is what happened so many times as described in the original post, but as far as my personal experience goes, that is how I was told to deal with it and it seems to work.

 

This has been a problem for my group as well. In our experience, if all members are not "in combat" when *anyone* pushes the exit door, the fight resets, whether we have pets out or not. Once people are rezzed, we class buff or heal those people back into combat. I have seen the pets bug as well, though for us that doesn't happen every time.

Best of luck, OP, I hope your group gets around the remaining Ravagers bugs. I know how awful it is to have to face that much-hated bird again after you just defeated it.

Edited May 20, 2015 by SnoowMeow

[Bristol]

As someone who works in the software industry, you should also know how to write a good bug report. Your post here, sadly, is not a good bug report. I can only hope you included more details in your ticket to Bioware.

 

Your post does say what happens and when, but it's missing an important piece of information. Perhaps even the most important: how to reproduce the problem. If the problem is not apparent (and it probably isn't, since many players are able to get through the fight just fine), it can be extremely frustrating to try and guess exactly what the user did to trigger the bug.

 

So: if you want other forumgoers to help you with your problem, please tell us how your are doing the fight. If not, I'm not quite sure what your goal with your post is.

 

For reference, my group takes bird down to about 25%, then beats Cora until she escapes (a bit under 20% IIRC), and finally finishes bird. We often put one dps on Cora from the beginning. Extinguishers are triggered on cooldown starting from the second ricochet shot (first fire dot comes at about that time). If anyone dies during the fight, they'll get stealth rezzed before using the escape pod. This tactic has worked well for us, especially since BW fixed the door and changed Cora's escape method to stealthing instead of activating the escape pod. We usually only get one shot from the deck guns too. I'll be happy to provide other details if you want to compare notes.

 

I bought a new car. Whenever I put the key in and turn it, the starter engages but the engine never runs.

 

In the real world, that's all the details I need to give my dealership. They don't tell me that before they can even begin to diagnose the issue, I need to specify the colour of my shirt, the volume of coffee in my travel mug, the station that the radio was on, the brand of my underwear and the order in which I put on my shoes that morning.

 

When something is broken, it is broken, FIX IT!

[DarthNillard]

Wow. You are a sad, bitter person.

 

Just because you don't see your important bug get fixed immediately does not mean reporting it with lots of information doesn't help. In fact I dare say that quite a few bugs have went unfixed because idiots like you decided it either "wasn't going to be even viewed" or just reported something like "RAVAGERS IS BROKE FIX IT NOW."

 

If you don't even TRY to make an effort, how are the devs even going to know what problem we are having? Throwing half a million people at content people are bound to find bugs. Being thorough and letting the devs know exactly what happened makes their job easier, and it may lead it to get fixed. It may not if it's something very complex. This is probably not a database error that an intern can fix. This is probably something deep rooted in the code that could ripple out and break other things if fixed. Or maybe they just can't reproduce it because people like you didn't feel it was necessary to explain what is happening, but just stomped your feet a bit and said "THEY JUST DON'T CARE."

 

 

 

Dear god. The people on this forum . Unbelievable. Bitter. Sad. Ignorant.

 

Actually, I'm quite happy. This is my first forum thread in well over 2 years, I have been happily and quietly playing the game for a long long time. But this issue is ridiculous and I decided to speak up.

 

People like you are why inferior products are acceptable in society. You just fold over and take it, and get mad at the people who don't do the same. We pay for this game and this service, it should work as intended. Never once did I say that you shouldn't report a bug or be specific. I said that if the issue has been reported already, MANY MANY TIMES, that there is no reason to continue to provide detailed reports. The many car related examples other posters have made are perfect. If I have my car examined by a specialist and they diagnose and figure out that the problem is my breaks, I don't need to constantly have it re-examined over and over again....I PAY THEM AND THEY FIX OR REPLACE MY BREAKS!

 

They know what the problem is and when it happens, now fix it. PERIOD. There is no defense to be made on bioware's behalf. THIS GAME IS THEIR JOB. Do your job. Please and thank you.

[menofhorror]

Yes this is pretty bad even for their standards (if they even have some)

But what do you really expect from Bioware Austin at this point. Not much I guess.

The Biodrones can`t damage control this.

[lpope]

I bought a new car. Whenever I put the key in and turn it, the starter engages but the engine never runs.

 

In the real world, that's all the details I need to give my dealership. They don't tell me that before they can even begin to diagnose the issue, I need to specify the colour of my shirt, the volume of coffee in my travel mug, the station that the radio was on, the brand of my underwear and the order in which I put on my shoes that morning.

 

When something is broken, it is broken, FIX IT!

 

To be honest, that is because the microchip and microcontrollers in vehicles have excellent logging and diagnostic utilities now. You just plug the car into a computer, load up the data and analyze it. It's pretty amazing stuff.

 

I would bet my salary, SWTOR is no where near that level of sophistication in their logging and diagnostics utilities. Which goes to my previous point that BW should have a logging system that can be fed into a replay test system. They should be able to take the logs of an operation, flashpoint or any instanced content and push it through a replay and watch exactly what happens at any point in time (from a server perspective). That way when an issue is reported, they can pull the logs from the server run it through the replay system and see if they can duplicate the issue. If the issue can't be duplicated, then it could be a client issue or the system isn't stable or deterministic.

 

If BW doesn't have this type of system, that is a failure on their part. It would make identifying the root cause of bugs so much easier.

[Tsillah]

Again, I ran this the same first night with TWO pets out and cleared it fine. So yeah, that's not a thing. But enjoy pretending that's a quick fix <3

 

I'll try not to be too direct but the logic you apply here is flawed at best. Perhaps I wasn't precise enough for your needs so I shall endeavour to do better here.

 

The bug is not reliable, it's intermittent. So it doesn't happen all the time. When it happens though it seems to affect only groups where someone has a pet out. At least that's my experience. Maybe someone else has had a different experience.

 

Also it's an intermittent fault and as such it may or may not occur when you have a pet out and this is why your example has no logical sense in reply to my point. If you had said that you had this problem when nobody had a pet out, well, that would change things but as I said, I've never heard of that so far and I can only go by what I know.

 

That aside, intermittent faults are also the hardest to fix in general, because if you can't reproduce it reliably you can't pin point the actual cause and therefore you cannot fix it, until you do find the cause. Intermittent faults can also be caused by a combination or even various combinations of factors.

 

Don't get me wrong, I also don't like bugs, but I do try to be reasonable in my expectations towards bug fixing, because otherwise nothing productive can come out of it.

[Bristol]

...

 

They know what the problem is and when it happens, now fix it. PERIOD. There is no defense to be made on bioware's behalf. THIS GAME IS THEIR JOB. Do your job. Please and thank you.

 

This, this and oh yeah, THIS!

 

Everyone says that SWTOR is complex, I will grant you that.

Everyone says that every MMORPG has bugs, I will grant you that as well.

 

I am a Mechanical Engineer and I work as part of a Team that is responsible for several models of Drill Rigs capable of retrieving core samples from multiples of kilometers below the earth's surface. When a customer has an issue, it can have any combination of Electrical, Hydraulic, Mechanical, Programmatic or Human factors. If the customer is dissatisfied beyond what the sales staff can contain, they get forwarded on to us in Engineering. If we can't identify the issue in a conference call with the owner, operator or the mechanic, then I hop on a plane or usually a series of planes and travel to whatever edge of whatever mountain range in whatever country and work with the customer to solve their particular issue.

 

There are specific sub-systems that I personally specialize in and understand at the first-principles level of detail. If the issue is outside of my area of specialty, I know the guy who does specialize in that sub-system and I get him involved. Regardless, in almost all cases, the customer's complaint is resolved within hours of my arrival on-site.

 

The company that I work for has a limited customer base and caters to those customers like they are the last ones on the planet. It appears to me that computer gaming companies look upon their customer base as more of a renewable resource and with that a certain amount of contempt for the customer ensues.

 

I really enjoy playing SWTOR. I think that it is my enjoyment of this game in general that makes my frustration more apparent when my enjoyment is interrupted by the nagging bugs that never seem to be addressed. Regardless, I still enjoy the game and not playing it makes me more annoyed than working around bugs, but gosh-darn I sure would appreciate it if the bugs received some more attention.

[Khryn]

Actually, I'm quite happy. This is my first forum thread in well over 2 years, I have been happily and quietly playing the game for a long long time. But this issue is ridiculous and I decided to speak up.

 

People like you are why inferior products are acceptable in society. You just fold over and take it, and get mad at the people who don't do the same. We pay for this game and this service, it should work as intended. Never once did I say that you shouldn't report a bug or be specific. I said that if the issue has been reported already, MANY MANY TIMES, that there is no reason to continue to provide detailed reports.

 

They know what the problem is and when it happens, now fix it. PERIOD. There is no defense to be made on bioware's behalf. THIS GAME IS THEIR JOB. Do your job. Please and thank you.

 

 

Ok. Here is a quote from your first post: "If you honestly think you are helping, you aren't. Once a bug is reported once, that's it. The 9 million other people who bring it up, no matter how in-depth or shallow their reports are, mean nothing."

 

How do you know your specific report has been reported? You may THINK that because you see "Ravagers bug" on the forum it is reported. Maybe it has. Maybe it has not.

 

"There is no reason to continue to provide detailed reports."

 

That is such a cop out. Like I said, unless you have reported it before, maybe you provide that one key piece of info that gives a dev an "ah ha!" moment.

 

Now on to your last gem:

 

"People like you are why inferior products are acceptable in society. You just fold over and take it, and get mad at the people who don't do the same"

 

I am advocating detailed bug reports. That means I want this game to be fixed. It in no way means that I believe inferior products are acceptable in society. In fact, it means quite the contrary. It means I want to take the time to make my voice heard, to make sure they know this is an issue, to ensure they have enough information to sit down and look at whatever issue I deem important. But if I took your route, i'd just keep on playing thinking that because I had that issue, someone else obviously had this issue, so they must have reported it so why bother? It's not *MY* position that is "accepting inferior products," IT IS YOURS.

 

Whining and complaining on a forum because you have feel Bioware isn't trying to fix bugs is just asinine.

But here. I think you need to read this. I think A LOT of people need to read this:

 

 

http://mrlizard.com/rants/why-havent-they-fixed-this-bug/

 

 

It's a bit old, but it's still relevant. I think it'll give you a clearer understanding of where Bioware is coming from, and may even give you incentive to try and fill out a bug report, or bring it up on the forums in detail. Or not. Lead a horse to water metaphor.

[Khryn]

You know what, I highly doubt you even went to my link so I'll post the relevant paragraph here:

 

"“Everyone knows X is broken! Why don’t they fix it?”

 

Well, first, “everyone” doesn’t know it. YOU may PERCEIVE it, but that doesn’t make it so. The folks on the other end of the screen have access to a lot of data you don’t, aggregates across all servers and levels, and so on. Your perceptions of brokenness may be false. Second, “fixing it” isn’t always simple — things are broken precisely because these games are hideously complex, and two things which look great on their own combine to form an unholy mess. Arbitrarily fixing one “broken” thing without looking at the ripple effects of that fix can just make things worse."

[DarthNillard]

You know what, I highly doubt you even went to my link so I'll post the relevant paragraph here:

 

"“Everyone knows X is broken! Why don’t they fix it?”

 

Well, first, “everyone” doesn’t know it. YOU may PERCEIVE it, but that doesn’t make it so. The folks on the other end of the screen have access to a lot of data you don’t, aggregates across all servers and levels, and so on. Your perceptions of brokenness may be false. Second, “fixing it” isn’t always simple — things are broken precisely because these games are hideously complex, and two things which look great on their own combine to form an unholy mess. Arbitrarily fixing one “broken” thing without looking at the ripple effects of that fix can just make things worse."

 

You are saying a whole lot of nothing right now, so save your rhetoric. The only thing worse then complaining about something on a message board, is being the person complaining about the person who is complaining. Bioware has addressed the fact that they know there is a problem with Ravagers. This is their product, and it's their job to fix it. There is nothing left to say. Stop trying to sound message board educated, nobody cares ace. A bunch of people in here arguing with each other takes away from the actual point of contention; something is wrong and they need to fix it. Feel free to babble on about other nonsense, but I'm done replying. My quarrel isn't with you, its with the issue in the game. To be honest, I'm actually annoyed I wasted this much time replying.....

[Khryn]

You are saying a whole lot of nothing right now, so save your rhetoric. The only thing worse then complaining about something on a message board, is being the person complaining about the person who is complaining. Bioware has addressed the fact that they know there is a problem with Ravagers. This is their product, and it's their job to fix it. There is nothing left to say. Stop trying to sound message board educated, nobody cares ace. A bunch of people in here arguing with each other takes away from the actual point of contention; something is wrong and they need to fix it. Feel free to babble on about other nonsense, but I'm done replying. My quarrel isn't with you, its with the issue in the game. To be honest, I'm actually annoyed I wasted this much time replying.....

 

 

You sure are a piece of work. Maybe it's good you stopped replying, or posting at all.

 

You didn't read a word I typed. And that's fine, after your initial posts I didn't expect you to be able to understand anything I was saying.

[Bristol]

You sure are a piece of work. Maybe it's good you stopped replying, or posting at all.

 

You didn't read a word I typed. And that's fine, after your initial posts I didn't expect you to be able to understand anything I was saying.

 

I know, lets sing the

...