Healers....Top KEK

[Ashes_Arizona]

Doing a lot of unranked PVP grinding comms lately and healers are just hilarious.

 

Today for example a barely geared sage literally stood still and ignored a marauder, and two assassins wailing on them.

 

Literally these are three of "supposedly" the highest burst DPS classes in the game...everyone blew their entire rotations trying to take down this healer and she didn't even feel like she had to move or get out of melee range or anything. She just stood there, outhealing 3 DPS classes worth of damage, then popped her bubble, which is instant and can't be interrupted and makes her completely invulnerable, healed to full and continued to ignore us til we were randomly peeled off her and picked off.

 

Not only that but Tech based healers, as well, are ridiculous and can literally out heal all incoming damage at a 2:1 ratio without being almost perma-stunned and perma-interrupted and with interrupts having a cooldown you literally cannot interrupt regularly enough to make a difference.

 

How is it out of all of these healers the only one I consider a "soft target" is the Combat Medic in heavy armor?

 

I seriously cannot believe how ridiculous healers as single targets are. A good healer being able to survive is a great thing, but these people don't even have to try to get out of melee range of melee class....thats just ridiculous.

[NikSunrider]

I have outhealed, just the other day, 2 vengeance juggs and a (not surprising though) Lethality Op as a Commando......they decided to use me for parsing, it seems.

 

They just stood there hitting me for ~4 min in a voidstar. OUr friendly duel only ended when my team breached the datacore.

[ace_boogie]

Bad dps are bad. A single half decent dps should be able to at least do 1k dps. That means that 3 of them should be doing about 3k dps on that healer. if she face tanked 3 dps, while undergeared, no sweat, those dps were pretty terrible Edited May 17, 2015 by ace_boogie

[Ashes_Arizona]

I have outhealed, just the other day, 2 vengeance juggs and a (not surprising though) Lethality Op as a Commando......they decided to use me for parsing, it seems.

 

They just stood there hitting me for ~4 min in a voidstar. OUr friendly duel only ended when my team breached the datacore.

 

Thats why I used quotation marks around "soft target" because in all fairness Commando's and Merc's aren't super easy nuts to crack either, but they're not anywhere as ridiculous as Sawbones/Medicine and Sage is literally the most ridiculous of the entire bunch.

 

No one in light armor should be able to ignore three high burst DPS melee classes and not even try to get out of melee range...that is absolutely stupid balance concepting.

 

I get it that healers get focused..a lot, but this is literally overkill. How would people feel if Shadow/Assassin's were completely immune to blaster fire? Cause thats how healers feel to everyone with a melee weapon at the moment.

[Ashes_Arizona]

Bad dps are bad. A single half decent dps should be able to at least do 1k dps. That means that 3 of them should be doing about 3k dps on that healer. if she face tanked 3 dps, no sweat, those dps were pretty terrible

 

No they weren't cause I was one of them and I know my rotations pretty well. Its really easy to call "bad players are bad" when a claim like this comes up but everyone I have PVP'd with in the last week can't believe how overpowered sages are.

 

She didn't just face tank us, she stood there and just healed her self through that 3k dps. Then when she couldn't keep up she popped the bubble. She didn't even TRY to move it was obvious she wasn't even concerned with trying to get out of range....if it was absolutely and incontrovertibly true that "good" DPS players would have blew her up, she wouldn't have known if the players were good or bad and would have at least tried to move...she literally just stopped where she was and channeled heals til she bubbled. Thats not bad DPS players, thats a Seer Sage that knows she's invulnerable.

[zZeroAgent]

A sage doesn't have good HoTs. In a 4 second stun, with 3 DPS on him he should be practically dead. Rotate your interrupts to prevent him from ever casting Innervate/Healing Trance and there's just no way the Sage survives

[detora]

L2P issue. On a warzone training dumby, in full Dark Reaver, any average DPSer should be able to parse at least 3k sustained (a "good" one will push 4k). So 3x3k=9k DPS. Add in 3 interupts and 3 hardstuns, there is no healer in this game that would be able to facetank that.

[Lhancelot]

A sage doesn't have good HoTs. In a 4 second stun, with 3 DPS on him he should be practically dead. Rotate your interrupts to prevent him from ever casting Innervate/Healing Trance and there's just no way the Sage survives

 

This exactly. There's no way 3 dps were on this sage, and they were using interrupts and stuns and they couldn't force her bubble quickly.

 

Claiming people are bads is not fair, but the proclamation that sages can withstand 3 "good" dps on them without breaking a sweat for substantial time is also not fair (or true).

 

Only way any healer withstands 3 dps on them is if the dps are not very good, or are not using any interrupts (which some would argue is being not-so-good).

 

1 really good dps can give a good healer problems. 2 good dps on a good healer will overwhelm the healer pretty quickly, and 3 good dps on one healer will force that healer to have to blow all emergency buffs asap.

[shammah]

This is the type of stuff that ruins team ranked. People whine about stuff that isn't broken and then it's needlessly nerfed. Buff commandos/sorcs to be somewhat on par with ops aoe healing and it will be more balanced.

[dbears]

This is the type of stuff that ruins team ranked. People whine about stuff that isn't broken and then it's needlessly nerfed. Buff commandos/sorcs to be somewhat on par with ops aoe healing and it will be more balanced.

 

Hypocritical comment is hypocritical.

[Sharkii_boy]

Ok so sage heals are a little over the top in PvP right now but they will never be able to outheal 2 dps unless ur not interrupting their hardcasts when possible. I'm betting he was guarded or receiving offheals/something else or its just a l2p issue. I know this because I mained a sage healer for 3 years and face against them all the time when im on my dps.

 

In fact, did this happen on the harbinger versus a sage in pink gear?

[Ashes_Arizona]

Ok so sage heals are a little over the top in PvP right now but they will never be able to outheal 2 dps unless ur not interrupting their hardcasts when possible. I'm betting he was guarded or receiving offheals/something else or its just a l2p issue. I know this because I mained a sage healer for 3 years and face against them all the time when im on my dps.

 

In fact, did this happen on the harbinger versus a sage in pink gear?

 

I was using jolt on CD myself, I can't guarantee the other two players were using interrupts or not because it was a pug unranked game. The only bubbles I saw in play was Force Armor and then Barrier when she hit 50%.

 

I can't recall if she was in pink armor, I do know she was wearing an Minimalist Gladiator top with the usual dancer bottoms for the ever so tired "haw haw look how naked I can make my girl look" thing that is so disgustingly common in this game. Can't remember the shoes...sorry I was a bit busy. But far as pink goes? Not sure, it was Huttball and at the speed I tend to play everythings kind of a yellowy brown most of the time.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Ashes_Arizona

[Sharkii_boy]

I was using jolt on CD myself, I can't guarantee the other two players were using interrupts or not because it was a pug unranked game. The only bubbles I saw in play was Force Armor and then Barrier when she hit 50%.

 

I can't recall if she was in pink armor, I do know she was wearing an Minimalist Gladiator top with the usual dancer bottoms for the ever so tired "haw haw look how naked I can make my girl look" thing that is so disgustingly common in this game. Can't remember the shoes...sorry I was a bit busy. But far as pink goes? Not sure, it was Huttball and at the speed I tend to play everythings kind of a yellowy brown most of the time.

 

Ok so wasn't me then, because I had a similar situation yesterday where I was the healer. But really, the only way a sage is going to look invincible when two dps is on them is by using their roots/knockbacks/stuns and kiting them to hell and back. If they didnt, then you can be sure that they were being supported somehow.

[Ungodlyomen]

I gotta tell ya with only 2 hots/ shield and hot if specced this is a learn to play issue. 3 stuns and 3 interrupts even if u were pressing em blindly that sage wouldve dropped. So yeah imma call BS on your whole story. and tell you if that did happen then you guys suck. and need to learn to kick and stun in proper order. not saying you didnt interrupt becuase one wont do it but If yo time it right you can 1 vs 1 a healer down....lol yeah right...lol sorry heals are so op in this game. and pvp is just stunland anyways. But 3 dps couldve dropped it using interupts and stuns with no issue. Edited May 18, 2015 by Ungodlyomen

[Ashes_Arizona]

I was using Jolt and Electrocute on cooldown, thats what I've got currently. You can't use Mindtrap on a character in combat.

 

So what I see there is one stun and one interrupt...both of which were used on CD and neither made a lick of difference. I'm really fine with learning to play....I'm not going to sit here and pretend I am the awesomest PVP player ever...but I know my rotations and being continually told that I need to L2P when I am literally trying as hard as I can and as far as I could tell, so were two other melee DPS...only to have literally our every effort either shrugged off or ignored by this sage....was not very encouraging at all.

 

In fact its situations like that that make me wonder if theres just some kind of hidden knowledge about melee DPS classes that I just don't know..but its not like anyone takes any time to teach in this game and Dulfy guides are about as close to any info as there is and Dulfy guides are literally written by people that expect everyone reading their guides to already understand 110% of what they're writing so they're literally written for people that wouldn't need them.

 

Simple facts are is I am playing the game by reading the abilities I have, understanding what they do and where they fit in my rotation, I am gearing to the best understanding of the class role I am playing, I am practicing my rotations in PVE and against a player dummy on my ship and I'm not ignorant about where my stun and interrupt skills are on my hotkeys.

 

So if we could dial back the "OMG SUCK DPS 12XP PLAYER NEEDS TO L2P"...cause to be fair I have two characters at level 50 that are in full level 50 PVP Champion gear from 2012...I'm not ignorant, I'm not a newb...I am more than willing to admit I'm out of practice and the current meta is slightly different than the one I left back in 2012...but seriously, if I thought that the reason that sage didn't even feel compelled to move out of saber range was because of how bad I was....I wouldn't have made this post.

 

I am fairly sure I am doing everything I can do as right as I can do it. And I'm also 100% certain that this sage that fomented this post just ignored everything I threw at her, as well as two other people, til we got peeled off.

[Savej]

Doing a lot of unranked PVP grinding comms lately and healers are just hilarious.

 

Today for example a barely geared sage literally stood still and ignored a marauder, and two assassins wailing on them.

 

Literally these are three of "supposedly" the highest burst DPS classes in the game...everyone blew their entire rotations trying to take down this healer and she didn't even feel like she had to move or get out of melee range or anything. She just stood there, outhealing 3 DPS classes worth of damage, then popped her bubble, which is instant and can't be interrupted and makes her completely invulnerable, healed to full and continued to ignore us til we were randomly peeled off her and picked off.

 

Not only that but Tech based healers, as well, are ridiculous and can literally out heal all incoming damage at a 2:1 ratio without being almost perma-stunned and perma-interrupted and with interrupts having a cooldown you literally cannot interrupt regularly enough to make a difference.

 

How is it out of all of these healers the only one I consider a "soft target" is the Combat Medic in heavy armor?

 

I seriously cannot believe how ridiculous healers as single targets are. A good healer being able to survive is a great thing, but these people don't even have to try to get out of melee range of melee class....thats just ridiculous.

 

It sounds like there was a tank or two involved. Don't get me wrong, I haven't been happy with the healing output in this game since, well, 2.0. And it's gotten worse - 2 tanks and 2 heals seems to be the group ranked comp to beat at the moment. But those three characters had more than three stuns and numerous interrupts besides which there's no way one undergeared character is going to outheal 3 dps for any length of time: there had to be a skill problem in that mix.

[Aumvaar]

I was using Jolt and Electrocute on cooldown.

 

I'm guessing you were the Marauder? I didn't know they have both Jolt & Electrocute, that's good to know.

 

Regardless, whether you were interrupting or not, it sounds like the other two with you weren't doing any interrupts at all, which does not surprise me. It also sounds like that was a pro Sage healer, because I'm not a bad Corruption Sorceror, but there's no way I could pull that off against 3 players, I'm not that good.

 

My entire history of MMO PvP has taught me that a good healer will beat a good DPSer simply by healing through it, so I'm not wholly surprised.

[Master-Nala]

So if we could dial back the "OMG SUCK DPS 12XP PLAYER NEEDS TO L2P"....

 

Here's the thing. You came into the forums and declared based on an experience you had in the game that Sage/Sorc healers are "ridiculous" in their ability to outheal DPS classes.

 

You didn't ask how this could be, you didn't start with the assumption that you or your teammates could be doing something wrong, you went straight for the overpowered comment. You opened the door for people criticizing your play, because your experience is directly contradicted by many of our experiences.

 

It sounds like you were dealing with a guarded healer, you probably had taunts on one or more of you, and the healer....this might be hard to hear, was probably just better than you. Sorry.

[foxmob]

honestly, the only problem with sorcs/sages is in yoloQ as dps spec. they're waaaay more sturdy than either of the other two ranged ACs, and they offer their team considerably better utility. you could argue that makes them OP. you could argue that makes them fine and the other two ACs need some love. or you could argue that the problem is yoloQ matchmaking, which doesn't conform to the game design. but none of that has anything to do with a lone sage face tanking 2-3 dps.

 

:2cents:

[Ashes_Arizona]

Here's the thing. You came into the forums and declared based on an experience you had in the game that Sage/Sorc healers are "ridiculous" in their ability to outheal DPS classes.

 

You didn't ask how this could be, you didn't start with the assumption that you or your teammates could be doing something wrong, you went straight for the overpowered comment. You opened the door for people criticizing your play, because your experience is directly contradicted by many of our experiences.

 

It sounds like you were dealing with a guarded healer, you probably had taunts on one or more of you, and the healer....this might be hard to hear, was probably just better than you. Sorry.

 

Listen I don't care if a healer is better than me....this isn't a pride thing for me.

 

I was not taunted, I have my BUFFs/DEBUFFS at 1.25 in UI scale, I pay very close attention to what pops up there. There was no guard bubble around this sage....I know what it looks like. I have a level 60 Vigilance Guardian and a level 50 Jugg Immortal and a level 50 PT-AP from 2012...I'm familiar with tank mechanics. They were not in play in this instance....I would have recognized them.

 

There were also no other players involved in the fight at the start..this was Huttball after all, the pack tends to follow the ball...we singled out this Sage and cut her away from the group because she was single handedly keeping every ball carrier they had alive...and then we couldn't kill her for at least 20 - 30 seconds, til her back up arrived.

 

The fact that you people keep having to go for the "L2P" and "Deal with it shes better than you" in some kind of morose attempt to sit me down is kind of concerning. This isn't about the size of my e-*****...this is a direct observance of something so ridiculously unbalanced I can't believe anyone would defend it.

[foxmob]

if you scour the forum a bit, you'll see that while master nala (whom I agree with in this case) does jump to the "defense" of sorcs/sages, I certainly do not. I agree with his reply. and I have no trouble whatsoever with sage healers, even those whom I require help to kill, are very killable. and I've never ever had trouble with any sorc/sage ever that turns itself into a turret, especially a healer who cannot fight back so that I, myself, do not need to los him.

 

I would sooner believe the dude was hacking than three remotely competent dps couldn't kill an unguarded sage with pve gear.

Edited May 18, 2015 by foxmob

[Master-Nala]

There were also no other players involved in the fight at the start..this was Huttball after all, the pack tends to follow the ball...we singled out this Sage and cut her away from the group because she was single handedly keeping every ball carrier they had alive...and then we couldn't kill her for at least 20 - 30 seconds, til her back up arrived.

 

The fact that you people keep having to go for the "L2P" and "Deal with it shes better than you" in some kind of morose attempt to sit me down is kind of concerning. This isn't about the size of my e-*****...this is a direct observance of something so ridiculously unbalanced I can't believe anyone would defend it.

 

This was only 20-30 seconds? And the Sage used Barrier? Well what the heck did you expect? The Sage used their escape until her team could peel. That's not strange or overpowered at all. Most classes should be able to survive that long using their strongest cooldowns.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Master-Nala

[ToMyMa]

I have outhealed, just the other day, 2 vengeance juggs and a (not surprising though) Lethality Op as a Commando......they decided to use me for parsing, it seems.

 

They just stood there hitting me for ~4 min in a voidstar. OUr friendly duel only ended when my team breached the datacore.

 

Must've been three crappy players, considering that I, as an assault commando, can put a lot of pressure on a healer, forcing them to selfheal instead of heling the team. Vengeance should have no problem since they have so much CC, so I highly doubt those three players knew what they were doing.

[Karaiblis]

I played about 20 reg games this weekend on my heal sorc and sage. I have to say that I love when I get three gimps beating on me and I can ignore them, just like I'm sure you competent dps love to meet them and melt them with two hits. But with everyone striving so hard to alert people to the value of EXP and bolster it doesn't happen as often anymore (which is a good thing). Now I usually get what I did this last weekend, two determined dpsers that kill me no matter how hard I try to heal and stay out of range when I have little to no support.

 

If I don't have any peels or a guard or a co-healer on me, I can't take on two max EXP well played maras or a mara and a jug or a sorc and a mara tunneling me for long, and certainly not without running and LoS and kiting. (I mention those combos in particular because that's what was smacking me around this particular weekend, man those were some great maras). This sounds like a l2p issue to me, because those guys had no trouble beating me down, even tho I can go toe to toe with three bads or undergeared toons all day. Did you look to see if the healer had a guard on them, that makes a big difference, were they getting heals from a co-healer, if you were interrupting and stunning right, there's no way they could have stood there and not had to run away/break LoS/kite and taken three good dps in max EXP, even if they were in ravager gear themself.

 

I don't claim to be the best heals or even near it, but even those that I watch that are, whom I use as examples of how to get better, can not take three max EXP well played DPS indefinitely without any guard or co-heals on them, and no running/los breaking/kiting at all (tho you rarely see any of them not do those things unless they are facing undergeared bads or have guard and peels and another healer supporting them too, and can afford ignore them). Even they go down against three well played focused DPS when they stand still and have no back up support. So... check your gear, check your rotation abilities, I know you are claiming to have old pvp gear and experience, but the meta is different now, that really doesn't mean anything.

[Lhancelot]

Here's the thing. You came into the forums and declared based on an experience you had in the game that Sage/Sorc healers are "ridiculous" in their ability to outheal DPS classes.

 

You didn't ask how this could be, you didn't start with the assumption that you or your teammates could be doing something wrong, you went straight for the overpowered comment. You opened the door for people criticizing your play, because your experience is directly contradicted by many of our experiences.

 

It sounds like you were dealing with a guarded healer, you probably had taunts on one or more of you, and the healer....this might be hard to hear, was probably just better than you. Sorry.

 

What nala says is true though... You won't get much sympathy or direction if you start out the gate with a complaint on how overpowered healers are in PVP.

 

Many of us play healers, and quite frankly the burst is so insane now in PVP it's overwhelming, particularly when 2-3 burst spec dps get on top of one target.

 

When you make statements like, "3 dps can't even touch a healer, healers are OP'd!", it comes off very ignorant because anyone that PVPs regularly knows that 3 dps do more than just touch healers if they are at the very least average in skill.