Feels like a child wrote the "shadow of revan" DLC

[Adjite]

It is way more dumbed down and simplified then the class or main story lines before. You can't have game developers to write your stories, you have to hire writers for that. It has a star wars rebels or the other cartoon aftertaste. Shame on you BioWare, shame on you. You missed a great potential.

[Xilizhra]

What exactly was wrong with it? I haven't reached that yet.

[Adjite]

The style and quality of the storyline and the conversations are degraded a lot compared to the original and compared to the DLC before this one. Everything feels more childish, more straight forward.

 

For example you can say something like this: " I felt great sorrow, it felt like my whole life lost its meaning." Or you can say: " I was sad."

 

In my opinion when you are telling a story you should try harder then the second example.

[menofhorror]

I do agree that this was probably the weakest storyline in swtor so far. Still has good things but the overall plot was so basic and on every turn you had questions and plot holes which were never answered and will probably never be answered.

[drfumblez]

I do agree that this was probably the weakest storyline in swtor so far. Still has good things but the overall plot was so basic and on every turn you had questions and plot holes which were never answered and will probably never be answered.

 

Could you elaborate on the plot-holes? Questions are fine, and you should question them, but plotholes are another thing altogether.

[menofhorror]

Could you elaborate on the plot-holes? Questions are fine, and you should question them, but plotholes are another thing altogether.

 

Most of them I call plotholes because its clear as day that Bioware Austin will never revisit those topics again and it will remain unanswered. As to the specifics, I would advise you to look in the Spoilers section, there are a few thread about unanswereed question on Shadow of Revan. I don`t want to post spoilers here.

[Excise]

Outside of several class quests, I actually think the SoR story is the best that SWTOR has done. Lana and Theron were compelling characters that I actually care about, the villains are evil while still having something of a personality, and it was nice catching up with old friends in the class-specific missions.

 

It's leagues better than the 'nothing happens' Dread War, at any rate.

[drfumblez]

Most of them I call plotholes because its clear as day that Bioware Austin will never revisit those topics again and it will remain unanswered. As to the specifics, I would advise you to look in the Spoilers section, there are a few thread about unanswereed question on Shadow of Revan. I don`t want to post spoilers here.

 

Well, I'd still like specifics. Could you point to certain threads I could look via PM, or at least give me a general idea? I'm certain I could attempt to explain some of the plot points.

Edited May 15, 2015 by drfumblez

[SelinaH]

The style and quality of the storyline and the conversations are degraded a lot compared to the original and compared to the DLC before this one. Everything feels more childish, more straight forward.

 

For example you can say something like this: " I felt great sorrow, it felt like my whole life lost its meaning." Or you can say: " I was sad."

 

In my opinion when you are telling a story you should try harder then the second example.

On the other hand, your first example is so clichéd it sounds like it was cribbed straight from a Hallmark Channel special about dealing with loss. More words, in and of themselves, do not always make for better writing; simplicity can have its own poignancy.

 

That's not to say that I disagree that the writing in TOR has gone a bit downhill since vanilla.

[JouerTue]

for me, they killed it when they put revan in it. the only good thing is killing him again. but at least they put rishi and ravagers in, i liked those parts Edited May 16, 2015 by JouerTue

[menofhorror]

Well, I'd still like specifics. Could you point to certain threads I could look via PM, or at least give me a general idea? I'm certain I could attempt to explain some of the plot points.

 

Ok for example http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=796881 or http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=784416

This one is good as well: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=786533

Edited May 16, 2015 by menofhorror

[drfumblez]

Ok for example http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=796881

 

The key word here is Zealots. The Revanites are nigh-religious with their adherence to Revan's will. I'm certain the top echelons knew his exact plans, but the lower ranks were given most likely a "Big Picture": aka Revan kills Vitiate.

 

Re: Mask- This one is answered by the Legacy of the Rakata FP. He notes that he did not want the loyalty of the Revanites before, but accepted it after his "disappearance". He likely retrieved his mask from them, and when he returned, they came to his call. It would be unlikely that ALL the Jedi and Republic troops at the Foundry were Revanites, however.

 

As to his final bunch of questions? Yes, indeed, people can blindly serve and obey, even when horrible outcomes are the likely outcome. See re: National Socialist Party and many of the 19th century Communist regimes.

 

or

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=784416

 

This is much speculation, but

1) Yes, the isotope bombs were used by the Imperials on the Jedi.

2) "Decades-old plan"? You mean converting people to Revan's side and bringing to him an awesome army for him to lead on his return? That sounds like decades to me.

3a) Irrelevant to Revan.

3b) As if Marr could not possibly have looked into the Hero of Tython's records of fighting the Imperials and Imperial Guard, and learned that, indeed, Vitiate is insane? I think its more then plausible he has enough information.

 

This one is good as well: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=786533

By Paragraph:

 

1) Think the Imperial Agent's enemies of Act 3. Everyone has their own opinion of what the Galaxy should be. Doesn't mean they're correct.

 

2) Revan was going to destroy his enemies above Rishi in order to make sure that wouldn't be able to stop him... which because he failed, they stopped his plan (fortunately).

 

3) By destroying the major fleets of the Republic and Imperials, he would have grounded both war efforts to a slow crawl. With little conflict, the Emperor cannot supposedly grow stronger, thus giving Revan his chance to overpower and kill him (or so Revan supposed).

 

4) They were deliberately attempting to make traditional trade routes and attack plans fruitless, while guiding and goading both major fleets above one singular place. Plus, the pirates? Controlled a planet. Not exactly a small time crew.

 

5) As explained above, to halt the conflict momentarily and kill Vitiate.

 

6) I'm certain the Revanite ships were actually ships of each respective side, and when the cannons targeted the Revanites, they aimed for those ships with Revanite IFF tags- like some of the dailies and quests before had had demonstrated. Different models, certainly, but remember there also saboteurs and traitors EVERYWHERE in the ships.

 

7) Likely pulled from other fleets, but Theron only needed the fleets that were in orbit at the time. And yes, any decent organization keeps a list of all its members to make certain of who's involved, so they aren't easily duped.

 

8) Suicidal followers are not exactly uncommon among Zealots.

 

9) The cyborg army was meant to help decimate the Pub and Imp Fleets, as well as defend the ground installation. Everything else, explained above.

 

 

I hope I was able to offer a little closure and answer some plot points for you. Please don't hesitate to offer your own educated opinion or PM me with questions.

Edited May 16, 2015 by drfumblez

[AnotherSith]

For example you can say something like this: " I felt great sorrow, it felt like my whole life lost its meaning." Or you can say: " I was sad."

 

I found that first example to be long-winded and rather pretentious.

 

I my Inquisitor had to say something like that I'd rather he say "Well that was certainly depressing." in his usual callous and sardonic manner.

[Warlord_Maliken]

I have not experienced the story of revan yet, though i saw a few basic spoiler videos on youtube. I've been busy pvp'ing, but will likely do the story soon, though i must say, it looks SUPER mystical..... I find that very unattractive. The sort of shakespeare dialogue we had to go through in episodes 1-3 (anakin: "I don't like sand....") along with shadows of revan apparently having some sort of all-powerful spirit possessing helpless individuals - these things are unattractive to me.

I like the supernatural part of a story to be very mysterious; a build up. It can be present, but don't shove it down my throat. The original star wars movies were GREAT at making the force a sort of esoteric power that basically wasn't normal, and some didn't even think it even existed. When you saw Vader in Empire Strikes Back slinging heavy metal toward Luke in the epic duel, you got the picture - that obi wan was for realz in his stories. Yoda wasn't trippn.

"ITS REAL!! " /rocket-raccoon from guardians of the galaxy.

 

When i saw the cinematic of Shadows of Revan ; soldiers getting possessed by a force spirit, and a ghostbuster squad coming to the rescue, it was like -- oh... ok..... hmm.....

haha.. but hey, I have not done played it through yet so who knows. Maybe i'll love it.

 

To the original post, i shared the same opinion just from viewing the spoilers.

 

<3 all farewell

Edited May 17, 2015 by Warlord_Maliken

[menofhorror]

The key word here is Zealots. The Revanites are nigh-religious with their adherence to Revan's will. I'm certain the top echelons knew his exact plans, but the lower ranks were given most likely a "Big Picture": aka Revan kills Vitiate.

 

Re: Mask- This one is answered by the Legacy of the Rakata FP. He notes that he did not want the loyalty of the Revanites before, but accepted it after his "disappearance". He likely retrieved his mask from them, and when he returned, they came to his call. It would be unlikely that ALL the Jedi and Republic troops at the Foundry were Revanites, however.

 

As to his final bunch of questions? Yes, indeed, people can blindly serve and obey, even when horrible outcomes are the likely outcome. See re: National Socialist Party and many of the 19th century Communist regimes.

 

or

 

This is much speculation, but

1) Yes, the isotope bombs were used by the Imperials on the Jedi.

2) "Decades-old plan"? You mean converting people to Revan's side and bringing to him an awesome army for him to lead on his return? That sounds like decades to me.

3a) Irrelevant to Revan.

3b) As if Marr could not possibly have looked into the Hero of Tython's records of fighting the Imperials and Imperial Guard, and learned that, indeed, Vitiate is insane? I think its more then plausible he has enough information.

 

 

By Paragraph:

 

1) Think the Imperial Agent's enemies of Act 3. Everyone has their own opinion of what the Galaxy should be. Doesn't mean they're correct.

 

2) Revan was going to destroy his enemies above Rishi in order to make sure that wouldn't be able to stop him... which because he failed, they stopped his plan (fortunately).

 

3) By destroying the major fleets of the Republic and Imperials, he would have grounded both war efforts to a slow crawl. With little conflict, the Emperor cannot supposedly grow stronger, thus giving Revan his chance to overpower and kill him (or so Revan supposed).

 

4) They were deliberately attempting to make traditional trade routes and attack plans fruitless, while guiding and goading both major fleets above one singular place. Plus, the pirates? Controlled a planet. Not exactly a small time crew.

 

5) As explained above, to halt the conflict momentarily and kill Vitiate.

 

6) I'm certain the Revanite ships were actually ships of each respective side, and when the cannons targeted the Revanites, they aimed for those ships with Revanite IFF tags- like some of the dailies and quests before had had demonstrated. Different models, certainly, but remember there also saboteurs and traitors EVERYWHERE in the ships.

 

7) Likely pulled from other fleets, but Theron only needed the fleets that were in orbit at the time. And yes, any decent organization keeps a list of all its members to make certain of who's involved, so they aren't easily duped.

 

8) Suicidal followers are not exactly uncommon among Zealots.

 

9) The cyborg army was meant to help decimate the Pub and Imp Fleets, as well as defend the ground installation. Everything else, explained above.

 

 

I hope I was able to offer a little closure and answer some plot points for you. Please don't hesitate to offer your own educated opinion or PM me with questions.

 

See a lot of it are assumptions. Yes what you say makes sense in most cases but this is the problem here. We don´t even get a Hint in those new storylines if what you say may or may not be correct. Everything became a "accept it or interpret it as you want" Thats lazy from the writers.

 

2)Why would Revan think the republic or the imperials would stop him on Rishi if they both had no idea that he was alive? It makes no sense. Moreso he in fact brought attention to him with his actions on Rishi instead of just keeping quite and doing his thing on Yavin.

 

3)Revan said himself that he wasn`t interested in the war between reps and imps. And this whole "conflict makes the emperor stronger" hasn`t been emphasized not even once in the story so its not really a valid point. It`s all an assumption and we will probably never dig deeper into this which is a damm shame.

 

4)Yes but again as I said, the whole story on Rishi was completely unnessecary for Revan. He didn´t need to distract reps or Imps because they both didn`t knew he was alive. Instead of straightly going to Yavin and doing what he wanted he created attention to himself.

 

6)It is still the question where the Revanites managed to get such huge fleets. The problem of this storyline that things suddenly happened without any hints or foreshadowing in the slightest. SUDDENLY the revanites are a galactic wide conspiracy group and suddenly they all have enough fleets and armies. It all seems rushed and a "bioware waved its magic wand and let it happen" situation

 

7) It still happened way too fast. Suddenly Theron managed to gain all the important names with his ultra mega hacking skills when nobody even who the traitors on the fleets were.

 

9) It still was a very missed oppurtunity. They are introducing this rakata technology for cyborgs and after the flashpoints its never heard off again. It all feels rushed, budget constrained and coincidence after coincidence.

No slow buildup, no mystery, no feel of threat.

 

ALso the whole alliance between imps and reps happened WAY too fast and was very anticlimactic. During Makeb Imperials had to wonder: ****, what happened to the emperor. It seemed like a mystery which should slowly be found out by our characters and NPCs but no, a truce happened and Marr was like "Yo Satele, the emperor is still alive I guess." without a moment of consideration to drop this information to their deadly enemy.

Also if this was so easy for Marr to find out then why didn´t he had this information on Makeb??

[Zehal]

Well I think the whole story is not over yet, the Emperor is out there doing a Darth Nihilus to planets....(Sucking the Lifeforce out of Whole Planets)

 

But I did love the story, yet there is always ways to improve it... I just hope that every class and faction gets a bit more central focus attention... to this future plot with the Emperor... I mean an Inquisitor or SW can't have the same Epic Battle cinematic that would have a Consular or a JK...and the same would go for the other non-force users ( I really hope my Inquisitor have a HUGE final Battle cinematic like it had with Darth Thanaton, man I wish I could revisit does epic moments...how I miss them!)

 

I think the team of writers of SWTOR have sooo much they could add, even from already created content... so Im not surprised they keep adding stuff as time passes... I think one of the most IMPORTANT writing should be added to the individual classes... theres nothing more gratifying than feeling and knowing that you Character is growing, affecting its surroundings as you keep covering content... especially your companions and personal story, to be recognised by NPC everywhere as the strongest, darkest, Coolest etc...etc...

 

Example: I mean being a SITH/Jedi that is full Lightside/Darkside or Balance have to have SOME big impact at some point, no?

Edited May 19, 2015 by Zehal

[SaveTheMonkeys]

See a lot of it are assumptions. Yes what you say makes sense in most cases but this is the problem here. We don´t even get a Hint in those new storylines if what you say may or may not be correct. Everything became a "accept it or interpret it as you want" Thats lazy from the writers.

 

2)Why would Revan think the republic or the imperials would stop him on Rishi if they both had no idea that he was alive? It makes no sense. Moreso he in fact brought attention to him with his actions on Rishi instead of just keeping quite and doing his thing on Yavin.

 

3)Revan said himself that he wasn`t interested in the war between reps and imps. And this whole "conflict makes the emperor stronger" hasn`t been emphasized not even once in the story so its not really a valid point. It`s all an assumption and we will probably never dig deeper into this which is a damm shame.

 

4)Yes but again as I said, the whole story on Rishi was completely unnessecary for Revan. He didn´t need to distract reps or Imps because they both didn`t knew he was alive. Instead of straightly going to Yavin and doing what he wanted he created attention to himself.

 

6)It is still the question where the Revanites managed to get such huge fleets. The problem of this storyline that things suddenly happened without any hints or foreshadowing in the slightest. SUDDENLY the revanites are a galactic wide conspiracy group and suddenly they all have enough fleets and armies. It all seems rushed and a "bioware waved its magic wand and let it happen" situation

 

7) It still happened way too fast. Suddenly Theron managed to gain all the important names with his ultra mega hacking skills when nobody even who the traitors on the fleets were.

 

9) It still was a very missed oppurtunity. They are introducing this rakata technology for cyborgs and after the flashpoints its never heard off again. It all feels rushed, budget constrained and coincidence after coincidence.

No slow buildup, no mystery, no feel of threat.

 

ALso the whole alliance between imps and reps happened WAY too fast and was very anticlimactic. During Makeb Imperials had to wonder: ****, what happened to the emperor. It seemed like a mystery which should slowly be found out by our characters and NPCs but no, a truce happened and Marr was like "Yo Satele, the emperor is still alive I guess." without a moment of consideration to drop this information to their deadly enemy.

Also if this was so easy for Marr to find out then why didn´t he had this information on Makeb??

 

Its only 'lazy' if the writers don't have it worked out behind the scenes. Leaving plot elements ambiguous is a perfectly valid storytelling technique. I like unanswered questions, its far more interesting than spelling everything out.

 

Clearly certain members of the republic/empire knew Revan was active - Us, the PCs. Revan is a potent enough force-user, and had enough spies in both factions to know he didn't kill off the PCs on Rakata with his orbital bombardment.

 

Revan's goal was to bring about the Emperor's resurrection in order to destroy him, and I'd imagine that was the Emperor's idea, anyway.

 

Its also important to remember that the amount of time that passes is kind of ambiguous, something that admittedly bugs me a bit. The whole SoR arc takes place over days or even weeks. If you include Forged Alliances, it'd be months. Just because one mission happens immediately after another, and travel between planets is instantaneous for the player, doesn't mean it flows that way in-game.

 

I personally liked how the alliance felt. It was very tense, and quite clear to me that it only worked because of the restraint on both sides. Given that the emperor was a threat to everyone, why wouldn't Marr tell his enemy about it? What would he have to gain by keeping that secret? At the end of Makeb he says something like "Despite the propaganda, [The Emperor] will not be mourned."

[drfumblez]

See a lot of it are assumptions. Yes what you say makes sense in most cases but this is the problem here. We don´t even get a Hint in those new storylines if what you say may or may not be correct. Everything became a "accept it or interpret it as you want" Thats lazy from the writers.

 

Its more so "let the player interpret the actions" then lazy writing, in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree.

 

 

2)Why would Revan think the republic or the imperials would stop him on Rishi if they both had no idea that he was alive? It makes no sense. Moreso he in fact brought attention to him with his actions on Rishi instead of just keeping quite and doing his thing on Yavin.

 

Again: He had NO INTENT of letting them know he was. Rishi's plan would have gone off without a hitch had we not interfered.

 

3)Revan said himself that he wasn`t interested in the war between reps and imps. And this whole "conflict makes the emperor stronger" hasn`t been emphasized not even once in the story so its not really a valid point. It`s all an assumption and we will probably never dig deeper into this which is a damm shame.

 

I assume you haven't done Ziost, or played the JK storyline, where it is emphasized that, yes, The Emperor does feed off the deaths of those who die. It's not a logical leap to assume that this is almost always the case.

 

4)Yes but again as I said, the whole story on Rishi was completely unnessecary for Revan. He didn´t need to distract reps or Imps because they both didn`t knew he was alive. Instead of straightly going to Yavin and doing what he wanted he created attention to himself.

 

AGAIN: He needed the fleets wiped out so that they couldn't stop him if they discovered what he was doing, and to use the deatsh there to fuel the awakening ritual. Preemptively striking and eliminating the both was deemed the best option by Revan. Stop assuming Revan operates on the smartest of logic.

 

6)It is still the question where the Revanites managed to get such huge fleets. The problem of this storyline that things suddenly happened without any hints or foreshadowing in the slightest. SUDDENLY the revanites are a galactic wide conspiracy group and suddenly they all have enough fleets and armies. It all seems rushed and a "bioware waved its magic wand and let it happen" situation

 

Revan has had followers for decades. How do you know that they haven't been converting for years and years and years? Because it didn't have the same build-up as the Star Cabal?

 

7) It still happened way too fast. Suddenly Theron managed to gain all the important names with his ultra mega hacking skills when nobody even who the traitors on the fleets were.

 

He got the datafiles before you went to Torch. and then had them on decryption the whole time he had been captured, and Lana herself mentioned that she had tried slicing. That whole time-frame could have been WEEKS.

 

9) It still was a very missed oppurtunity. They are introducing this rakata technology for cyborgs and after the flashpoints its never heard off again. It all feels rushed, budget constrained and coincidence after coincidence.

No slow buildup, no mystery, no feel of threat.

 

Becuase the PCs wiped it all out. It wasn't a threat anymore. It never could even become one.

 

ALso the whole alliance between imps and reps happened WAY too fast and was very anticlimactic. During Makeb Imperials had to wonder: ****, what happened to the emperor. It seemed like a mystery which should slowly be found out by our characters and NPCs but no, a truce happened and Marr was like "Yo Satele, the emperor is still alive I guess." without a moment of consideration to drop this information to their deadly enemy.

Also if this was so easy for Marr to find out then why didn´t he had this information on Makeb??

 

Because Marr and Satele aren't idiots, and know how big of a threat the Emperor is. Alliances can and do happen that fast.

Again, how do you know how much time has passed? How do we know he didn't discover this shortly after Makeb?

 

See SaveTheMonkeys and his stuff. He puts out some good answers.

[menofhorror]

Its only 'lazy' if the writers don't have it worked out behind the scenes. Leaving plot elements ambiguous is a perfectly valid storytelling technique. I like unanswered questions, its far more interesting than spelling everything out.

 

Clearly certain members of the republic/empire knew Revan was active - Us, the PCs. Revan is a potent enough force-user, and had enough spies in both factions to know he didn't kill off the PCs on Rakata with his orbital bombardment.

 

Revan's goal was to bring about the Emperor's resurrection in order to destroy him, and I'd imagine that was the Emperor's idea, anyway.

 

Its also important to remember that the amount of time that passes is kind of ambiguous, something that admittedly bugs me a bit. The whole SoR arc takes place over days or even weeks. If you include Forged Alliances, it'd be months. Just because one mission happens immediately after another, and travel between planets is instantaneous for the player, doesn't mean it flows that way in-game.

 

I personally liked how the alliance felt. It was very tense, and quite clear to me that it only worked because of the restraint on both sides. Given that the emperor was a threat to everyone, why wouldn't Marr tell his enemy about it? What would he have to gain by keeping that secret? At the end of Makeb he says something like "Despite the propaganda, [The Emperor] will not be mourned."

 

The problem here is that all uanswered questions feel like Bioware didn´t bother to think about that. It just often feels as if Bioware themselves have no idea why "certain plot element needed to happen" Yes its a common writing technique and yet it can completely fall onto its face when its not executed well. And this in my opinion shows itself in Shadow of Revan. It feels rushed and not thought out from beginning to end.

 

Yes certain NPCs, including our player chars knew of Revanites however we can`t forget that all this time everyone thought Revan was dead. To have him suddenly appear and everyone following him with pitchforks just because (without even questioning thart this could be an imposter) Everyone simply accepted that Revan came back from the dead and shrugged their shoulders and being like "Hmm, Revan is back....**** the imps and reps I guess"

This is how it felt to me.

 

Hmm thing is about the alliance: While I thought it went too fast, no hesitation from both sides (Shan and Marr were immediately cool about an alliance which bugs me a lot, not even a few sentece of "Hmm, should we really do this? Maybe he`s lying") It was for me still the best part of Shadow of Revan along with Yavin. But this is again a budget issue.

 

I honestly would love Yavin much more if this whole thing wasn`t about a crazy maniac named Revan. Explore the history of the imperial guard, the dark mysteries. But no, Revan went crazy and we have to stop him.

 

Its ok to leave vague ends and let players guessing but as a good storywriter you also need to give the players a satisfying conclusion. Not giving any satisfying answers and endings leaves the player confused and not happy. And I can`t hear this "Its their story, they can write what they want" Sure they can but its their job and as a player I can criticize if the story is good or bad and ultimately the Shadow of Revan story was very, very weak.

[menofhorror]

Its more so "let the player interpret the actions" then lazy writing, in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree.

 

 

 

 

Again: He had NO INTENT of letting them know he was. Rishi's plan would have gone off without a hitch had we not interfered.

 

 

 

I assume you haven't done Ziost, or played the JK storyline, where it is emphasized that, yes, The Emperor does feed off the deaths of those who die. It's not a logical leap to assume that this is almost always the case.

 

 

 

AGAIN: He needed the fleets wiped out so that they couldn't stop him if they discovered what he was doing, and to use the deatsh there to fuel the awakening ritual. Preemptively striking and eliminating the both was deemed the best option by Revan. Stop assuming Revan operates on the smartest of logic.

 

 

 

Revan has had followers for decades. How do you know that they haven't been converting for years and years and years? Because it didn't have the same build-up as the Star Cabal?

 

 

 

He got the datafiles before you went to Torch. and then had them on decryption the whole time he had been captured, and Lana herself mentioned that she had tried slicing. That whole time-frame could have been WEEKS.

 

 

 

Becuase the PCs wiped it all out. It wasn't a threat anymore. It never could even become one.

 

 

 

Because Marr and Satele aren't idiots, and know how big of a threat the Emperor is. Alliances can and do happen that fast.

Again, how do you know how much time has passed? How do we know he didn't discover this shortly after Makeb?

 

See SaveTheMonkeys and his stuff. He puts out some good answers.

 

For me its definitely lazy writing. Letting players think and guess is sure good but if you have to guess and think about the ENTIRE storyline and be like "Wait this didn`t make sense, or wait this also didn´t make sense" then it shows that the story didn`t work.

 

"Stop assuming Revan operates on the smartest of logic" Yes, ultimately I know understood that Revan was just a big idiot. AND AGAIN: He DID NOT have to distract the empire and the republic because they both DID NOT know he was alive. And if he needed the conflict for more death which would fuel the ritual then the storyline SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED THAT. Or at least emphasize at this. Yes I player the jedi knight storyline. But you need to give the extra ressources to make players understand why Revan had to pull this whole stunf off at Rishi. They really didn`t do a good job with that.

 

If so then all of Revans followers are freaking idiots, not even questioning if this was the true Revan when THEY ALL KNEW THAT Revan was dead. So you telling me that they were like "Hmm Revan came back from the death....cool I guess, lets **** up the empire and republic"

And really they SHOULD have gotten some buildup. Buildup is a strong device in a story and makes you hooked.

Here it was like "Oh btw, there is a big organization of revanites everywhere, stop them I guess" It was not engaging whatsoever.

 

Well than AGAIN: they should have at LEAST emphasized a bit on the time. What you say may be true but its the job of the story to make you hooked and slightly get an understanding why certain things happen, why this went so fast, why said person does this....But Shadow of Revan did a terrible job at this. Sure the writer put a lot of effort which you can tell but it was clearly not thought out from beginning to end.

[LogicLoup]

Well than AGAIN: they should have at LEAST emphasized a bit on the time. What you say may be true but its the job of the story to make you hooked and slightly get an understanding why certain things happen, why this went so fast, why said person does this....But Shadow of Revan did a terrible job at this. Sure the writer put a lot of effort which you can tell but it was clearly not thought out from beginning to end.

 

With respect, I have to disagree with you on this point. While yes, it is the job of the writers to engage the audience in their story, it is most emphatically not the writers' responsibility to spoon-feed the audience all the "whys" of the plot. You feel that Shadow of Revan doesn't explain itself sufficiently, that there are holes where motiviation or justification are missing, but both SaveTheMonkeys and drfumblez have offered cogent and detailed replies explaining how they were able to draw the relevant conclusions from the information given within the text itself. The information you want is already there — on some points, the foreshadowing has been laid literally from Day One of the game — it requires taking a step back to look at the big picture, and then interpolating the insight from that overall view back down to specific circumstances.

 

In answer to one of your earlier complaints:

Its ok to leave vague ends and let players guessing but as a good storywriter you also need to give the players a satisfying conclusion. Not giving any satisfying answers and endings leaves the player confused and not happy.

I think it's important to note here that we're still in the opening scenes of the Shadow of Revan plotline. Yes, there are unresolved plot elements, but that's because the story is still in progress. No one sits down to a novel and expects a satisfying ending with all their questions answered by the bottom of page 12, so I'm honestly confounded as to why you're demanding the same kind of premature completion here.

[BrianDavion]

If so then all of Revans followers are freaking idiots, not even questioning if this was the true Revan when THEY ALL KNEW THAT Revan was dead. So you telling me that they were like "Hmm Revan came back from the death....cool I guess, lets **** up the empire and republic"

 

except they didn't KNOW he was dead. assuming it was announced (there is some evidance that the empire supressed whom was there) that doesn't mean they'd belive it. consider the large number of people on the fourms who refused to accept it. and THEY where present for his death

[menofhorror]

except they didn't KNOW he was dead. assuming it was announced (there is some evidance that the empire supressed whom was there) that doesn't mean they'd belive it. consider the large number of people on the fourms who refused to accept it. and THEY where present for his death

 

Revan spent 300 years as the emperors slave and trough those generations everybody still thought he was alive? Come on....So they really consider Revan as this omnivent being. My god the revanites are probably the worst villains in swtor so far.

[menofhorror]

With respect, I have to disagree with you on this point. While yes, it is the job of the writers to engage the audience in their story, it is most emphatically not the writers' responsibility to spoon-feed the audience all the "whys" of the plot. You feel that Shadow of Revan doesn't explain itself sufficiently, that there are holes where motiviation or justification are missing, but both SaveTheMonkeys and drfumblez have offered cogent and detailed replies explaining how they were able to draw the relevant conclusions from the information given within the text itself. The information you want is already there — on some points, the foreshadowing has been laid literally from Day One of the game — it requires taking a step back to look at the big picture, and then interpolating the insight from that overall view back down to specific circumstances.

 

In answer to one of your earlier complaints:

 

I think it's important to note here that we're still in the opening scenes of the Shadow of Revan plotline. Yes, there are unresolved plot elements, but that's because the story is still in progress. No one sits down to a novel and expects a satisfying ending with all their questions answered by the bottom of page 12, so I'm honestly confounded as to why you're demanding the same kind of premature completion here.

 

Yes I see your point and understand but those questions have been asked in another forum where the writer even answered one of the questions. But he didn`t answer to the others. Many of the replies I got from SavetheMonkey and drfumblez do make sense and would enhance this plot a lot if those points were actually (TO SOME DEGREE) approached in Shadow of Revan but they weren`t. Also there were a lot of assumptions in it (which granted also would make a lot of sense). This isn`t a matter of "spoon-feeding". The problem here that NOTHING has been gently and carefully hinted and foreshadowed. Look at this storyline in contrast to the vanilla experience. The vanilla experience still tried to make players understand the situation, make you feel the danger and the threat. But Shadow of Revans storyline was way too much of a "Go do this, come back, do this and accept this next plot convenience....and repeat this again and again"

 

By not providing any information or answering any of the questions the engagement level sinks a lot because you simply do not care if the storyline makes no sense on every turn.

 

This is a big matter and especially for things pertaining the emperor cutscenes should be more fleshed out and give the time to explain, make you understand. But no, it was really rushed, devoid of any real impact. Suddenly Revan is able to split himself into two. Why? Because space magic (gives me Mass Effect 3 nightmares)

Nobody knew Revan was alive. Yet he didn`t go do to Yavin immediately to begin his plan. No he decided to play with pirates and the reps and imps. Apparently he needed more conflict to fuel the ritual. But this has never been brought up in SHadow of Revan. And this is an EXTREMELY IMPORTANT detail which lets you understand why things on Rishi happened. But nope, no explanation on the "expansion".

 

Also I completely disagree with your last sentences of the first pararaph. This certainly has not been foreshadowed at all. Would you have gotten the hint from the small cult on Dromund Kaas that they would expand themselves into an enormous galaxie wide organization like the Star Cabal? I did certainly not. This came for me out of nowhere.

[Rhyltran]

Revan spent 300 years as the emperors slave and trough those generations everybody still thought he was alive? Come on....So they really consider Revan as this omnivent being. My god the revanites are probably the worst villains in swtor so far.

 

Everyone knew he was alive because in the flash points, before shadow of Revan, the republic frees Revan from his prison. Then the Imperials fight him in the foundry. This is long before SOR. At some point during his freedom at the hands of the republic he contacts the revanites. At first maybe they don't believe him but he's by far the most powerful being they have ever met and everything about him from his look,s power, and mannerisms fits exactly who Revan is.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Rhyltran