Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Tebbo]

the only odd thing ive encountered that im not sure about is when i use the jedi kick. if im doing something else but i want to queue it up, it will be used up, but never happen.

 

it's sort of strange but that could just be how the move works.

 

i havent had the animation stuttering issues. i feel i have seen them though, just not myself. I dont mash too crazy but i'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. I still do press a few times if it's a really intense moment and I'm trying to eke out a win. and even then I don't see the animation stuttering occur.

[Bawheidbob]

Very informative thread - Personally i do not play well enough to of noticed this but this needs to be addressed.

[Xcore]

You can add my video showing the problem with responsiveness of Force Sweep If you want to. Here it is (Lots of ppl already seen it I guess) :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQmhYjkUqOU

 

Yea I've seen that one and I like it but I'm not sure if its a bit too confusing, I think its best when you see it in a scenario such as the one I added where you were fighting the elite and Riposte just did not happen...

 

This one is kind of confusion a bit, unless I'm just being a simpleton... I'd rather have this one bouncing around the thread instead of OP...

 

 

However, if you would like to (or anyone) make a concrete video that takes a few minutes, with several good examples and commentary and best possibly compare to WoW standard within the same video, I would absolutely glorify the hell out of that video in the OP. I think that would be great and help everyone understand this more.

[Xund]

This is the single biggest thing I've heard from my friends not wanting to switch to SWTOR.

[Devolution]

@Xcore: I made the riposte video in support of this thread, I'll gladly keep my recording software going while I play these next few days and see if I can get a nice compilation of bugs. Anything to make this game perfect!

[Xcore]

@Xcore: I made the riposte video in support of this thread, I'll gladly keep my recording software going while I play these next few days and see if I can get a nice compilation of bugs. Anything to make this game perfect!

 

yea that'd be great, that helps a lot. Visual evidence is the best thing we can get to define and explain to those who don't necessarily see it.

[Mahdii]

You can add my video showing the problem with responsiveness of Force Sweep If you want to. Here it is (Lots of ppl already seen it I guess) :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQmhYjkUqOU

 

 

Video perfectly shows why i havent PvP'd at all and have pretty much stopped playing this game.

 

Root cause is how the game was coded in regards to zones. Even though you are in an area on your server questing lets say. You are in a different 'instance' compared to those also in the same exact area. Servers are probably constantly que'ring back and forth trying to find all players 'ideal' instance and are compounding the issue.

 

More then likely this was observed early on in testing - probably inhouse testing. Sub-instances were created to lessen the affect but didnt remedy it. Add class specific instances within zones and the issue just gets worse.

[Androgen]

I completely agree with OP. Ability delay is very frustrating, especially in PvP for melee classes.

I also noticed an animation issue. When I press the ability (Slash for example) and my Jedi Knight raises his lightsaber to attack, and while doing so parries an incoming blow, he suddenly stops executing a given command. Not to mention double animations of abilities even if I press them only once.

 

This has a great impact on my combat and overall playing experience. I quickly grow tired of slow character response and after 4-5 hours of gameplay I fall asleep.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Androgen

[Luewen]

What he said. Nobody is complaining about the time it takes for the grenade to fly in the air. Like he said above, i'm concerned about the time from when you press the ability key on the keyboard until it actually performs that ability. For me it's about ~0.5 seconds delay. My character does *nothing* during those 0.5 seconds.

 

Let me put it like this, i see a monster on the road, i target it and "attack", well, before i actually engage in combat(0.5 seconds delay) someone else can come along and hit the mob before i even fire my shot! That's how bad it is. I sit and wait for my ability to actually trigger while some other guy has already engaged in combat and hit the mob. I see this all the time... Before someone goes on about latency... i have 30-50ms. Unless the latency meter is broken in the game, something is very wrong.

 

At first i thought it was my fps, but after reading this thread that does not seem to be the case. My regular "skills" such as walking around and jumping happen instantly, but that's mostly likely because they're client side. Something happens between me and the server causing a ~0.5 seconds delay. Maybe it's the server but if that was the case everyone would have this problem, right? Maybe some people are just used to it and don't even notice it. But how can you not notice it, it's so obvious that something just isn't right!

 

Imagine playing a normal game and every time you do something there is a ~0.5 seconds delay in that action. How fun would that be.

 

 

Incorrect. IF the GCD id sone and previous skill animation done, new skill will go off exactly when you press the button. At least i does in my game.

[Luewen]

Calling this very real problem with SW:TOR and MMO Development in general "whining" does not in fact make you look cool, rather it shows your complete lack of appreciation for a very real and serious issue.

 

Why dont you read the rest of my post first.

 

And perhaps its time to get used for the way it works now?

[Pacify]

I couldn't write a better post about this problem myself. Mad props to OP, this issue desperately needs attention, it really is stifling what is already flawed PvP system

[Rheemus]

Dear fellow players, dont get your hopes up for this to be fixed in any reasonable short amount of time, if it will ever be fixed it will be many many months from now when its probably too late anyway.

 

Why ?

 

Because it is the core of the game mechanics of SWTOR and its inabillity to perform or execite new abillities before the precious one has its animation all played out, probably this is a general issue with the Hero Engine that Bioware based SWTOR on.

 

Very interisting article on the GW2 website on how their developers not only are aware of this issue with delays and animations that has to play to their end, but also how they solved it elegantly !

 

Its worth a read, here it is wit link to source at the end:

*

 

"Combat Timing and Fine Tuning

One of the elements that makes Guild Wars 2 combat feel different from other games is that many skills have their own unique animations, and the skill functionality is often based on the animations themselves. With a robust animation-blending system, we are able to easily transition between skills. In our previous demos, this was shown through chain skills, such as the warrior sword combo in the first skill slot: Sever Artery leads to Gash, which flows into Final Thrust. We realized that this system did not need to be reserved just for chain skills but could apply to the entire game. There were skills such as Savage Leap, which moved the player into range of their target, and big control attacks like Shield Bash, that you wanted to be able to quickly follow with another skill. The problem was that the animations for these skills had follow-through that was preventing players from using another skill until the animations were finished. You could stun or chase someone, but it was hard to capitalize on it.

Our programmers added technology to our skill data to allow us to specify a point in an animation at which the player could start moving again. This made skills like Savage Leap not only more functional but tremendously fun to use. This technology came in right before gamescom, so we were able to showcase it with *a few important skills in that demo. Now that the technology has evolved, not only does it allow players to specify when they can start movement but it also allows us to transition into queued skills so that we can improve responsiveness. We went through every skill in the game and set up these animation breakout timings and the results were fantastic, but we didn’t stop there. I know many people have also noticed the more polished nature of the animations in the G-Star demo. Since we were able to go back and polish it, we also took a look at the impact of the new blending changes and made some timing changes to existing skills in order to give them more-appropriate anticipation, swing time, and follow-through to match the smoother feel that we were achieving with the blending. This really shines with things like big hammer swings, which now have slow buildups, quick attacks, and somewhat lengthy follow-through, depending on the skill. Ultimately, it creates a much more visceral and immediate system, which helps us straddle the line between action game and RPG.

 

Making these improvements has been really interesting and fun because it has shown us how our game can feel appropriately action oriented without taking away the familiarity of the MMO genre. We talk a lot about bringing dynamic combat to MMOs, and we have learned that the best way to do that is to retain a very traditional control scheme while letting the skills and their interactions define the combat. We wanted a player’s first impression to be, “I know how this works: I use ‘WASD’ to move, target with tab, and hit skill buttons.” But the more you play, the more you can see how the physics of the world and the nature of the skills create a totally different experience.

I like to say that GW2 controls like an MMO and has abilities like a MOBA (tools that you can use in diverse ways to adapt to changing situations), but its physical interactions are like an FPS (dodging projectiles, attacking from out of range, etc.). We are really happy with the way we were able to blend these three styles of play—and hopefully you will be too."

 

Source:

http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars...lopment-update

[MaceTowani]

I made a video showing a brief example of animation cancelling, just one of the issues bogging down character responsiveness. At about 0:13 my Riposte (number 5 skill) lights up and becomes available. I spam the button, and watch as my character proceeds to reset his animation every time I hit it. This is a reoccuring problem, and others have experienced it as well.

 

http://youtube/UwPT5x0GTVE

 

Before it's asked, no I didn't have lag, my latency remains stable and at 4 bars (in the bottom right).

 

It's not the game's fault, it's your own.

 

Your attacks get interrupted(and you can interrupt your enemies's attacks as well) while you are getting pummeled. It's a game mechanic that BW decided to run.

 

Also, the more you spam the less responsive your moves become. Another mechanic of the game to prevent move spammers and button mashers.

 

Learn to adapt to the mechanics of a game instead of trying to turn it into something it's not.

 

*coughWoWcough*

[Fantastix]

i ve already posted this in the german forum to get attention of more people

 

thanks you op, keep this thread on top

[Godfather]

Just here to /sign this thread as well. The ability responsiveness/delay is becoming a pain in the backside, especially for melee classes (at least for me).

 

Here is hoping for a fix soon!

[Pacify]

I do agree with the point that this is going to be a very hard problem to fix, since it is buried so deep within the actual game's engine. Honestly don't know how Bioware could of overlooked/underestimated the damage this bug is going to do to their game

[Melodium]

I can't for the life of me understand this "mechanic", if it is indeed as some posters have stated, intended. It definetly ruins the gameplay, atleast for me.

 

I really like the game as a whole but if this isn't resolved I will not continue playing cause it doesnt feel like I can play it, just look at someone else who plays the game 1 second after myself.

[Devolution]

It's not the game's fault, it's your own.

 

Your attacks get interrupted(and you can interrupt your enemies's attacks as well) while you are getting pummeled. It's a game mechanic that BW decided to run.

 

Also, the more you spam the less responsive your moves become. Another mechanic of the game to prevent move spammers and button mashers.

 

Learn to adapt to the mechanics of a game instead of trying to turn it into something it's not.

 

*coughWoWcough*

 

My instant attacks are getting interrupted? Wow, those are some OP mobs.

[Uuhwee]

Keep posting, they can not ignore a 200+ Thread.

 

If they really do, we know how they will act in the future with other essential problems.

[jedimastermaniac]

It IS a technical problem .... your-PC-wise

Try doing a little test.

Go to first person camera look at the floor/bottom and start activating abilities? 50 fps right? minimal lag right?

Try fixing your PC plz

[Xenofell]

Yeah, but it doesn't explain why some are unaffected by it. What even causes this problem? Is everyone having it just they don't "know" it. I doubt that. My problem is so obvious that anyone would notice it. Just clicking on an ability with a target and then *waiting* 0.5 seconds before anything even happens - that is just wrong.

 

It isn't caused by latency, FPS, and is reproducible over three unique accounts with three different computers for me.

 

Main PC - 60+ FPS constant, 110ms, bug.

Main PC - 60+ FPS constant, 30ms, bug.

Laptop 1 - 20 FPS, 30ms, bug.

Laptop 2 - 45 FPS, 110ms, bug.

 

I very much doubt anybody is unaffected by it. More likely, some people are just bad at playing games, new to MMOs, or have never played a game with fluid combat and don't notice it. None of those things necessarily bad, mind you.

 

I have a license for HeroEngine (called "HeroCloud", but essentially the same thing) and I can confirm this is pretty much an engine thing. Nonetheless BioWare will no doubt have access to the actual source code so it should be something that can be changed.

 

With that said, it will probably take a lot of work, but I still hold out hope that we'll see a fix sometime in the future. I honestly think that a major part of WoW's success has been due to the awesomely responsive and fluid combat system, and the lack thereof has definitely contributed largely to the failure of other games.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Xenofell

[kiveb]

Have had some problems with this, not as much as some seem to have though but I agree that this really needs to be looked at.

[Utheron]

It IS a technical problem .... your-PC-wise

Try doing a little test.

Go to first person camera look at the floor/bottom and start activating abilities? 50 fps right? minimal lag right?

Try fixing your PC plz

 

 

 

It's still not a PC issue!!

 

Let's say you press ability number 1, and then press ability number 2!

Then it takes like 0.5 seconds before your character actually does the ability number 2 attack. It's not a FPS problem! It's designed that way, and that's the problem!

[GawdoOo]

While I agree there is something wrong in the combat. I don't think it's a delay at the start of an ability.

 

To me it feels like it's at the end of the previous ability.

 

First strike is always responsive. To me it feels as if there is an extra cool down at the end of abilities that causes the next ability to not fire.

 

Best example I can give is casting medical probe as a combat medic, first one starts as soon as I hit the button. but I can't cast the second one right when the cast bar is done, it won't fire. I need to wait half a second after the cast bar is finished to cast the second spell.

[ShadowMasterRP]

While I agree there is something wrong in the combat. I don't think it's a delay at the start of an ability.

 

To me it feels like it's at the end of the previous ability.

 

First strike is always responsive. To me it feels as if there is an extra cool down at the end of abilities that causes the next ability to not fire.

 

Best example I can give is casting medical probe as a combat medic, first one starts as soon as I hit the button. but I can't cast the second one right when the cast bar is done, it won't fire. I need to wait half a second after the cast bar is finished to cast the second spell.

 

Apparently, that's because the game prioritises animations before actual solid cast time numbers and the info displayed by interface elements like cast bars.

 

Go figure.