Kirkkh Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Got my video up. This is a perfect example of how it SHOULD be. Enjoy and feedback please. Thank you! I tried posting your video in gen discussion. But yeah, ...no one watched it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Character responsiveness is definitely what makes or breaks my continued subscription in MMOs, or enjoyability in any game whatsoever. How it feels when you press an attack in a game is extremely crucial and I'm glad so many people see the importance of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Okay well... isn't this the player's fault then? I mean, my god, by lvl 48 I've done my moves and rotations how many thousands, tens-of-thousands of times...? HOW DO PEOPLE NOT HAVE THE FRIGGEN TIMING DOWN YET? How are they interrupting their own moves? What am I missing? We're not. Understand the argument. It's not that we can't figure it out, it's that it feels like a clunky, broken system. because it is. You are welcome to rail against the people making this argument, just like the WAR players did, and the LOTRO players, and the Rift players... you get the idea. We don't hate "your game." We bought it to see if it could be "our game" too, and it's fallen into the same trap as all of the other failed MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyBigBoss Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Character responsiveness is definitely what makes or breaks my continued subscription in MMOs, or enjoyability in any game whatsoever. How it feels when you press an attack in a game is extremely crucial and I'm glad so many people see the importance of this. I quit Warhammer, a game I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition of, strictly because of this. Gameplay >>>>>>> everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feskitt Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Got my video up. This is a perfect example of how it SHOULD be. Enjoy and feedback please. So functionally speaking, how would this work? All I've played is my BH Merc, so IDK other class's attacks yet. So I should be able to do 2 attacks more or less simultaneously? I should somehow be able to charge off a wrist rocket (which takes both hands), yet also somehow be able to fire w/ my free hand at the same time? If that's what you're all saying, I'm glad it's not that way. I'm not General Grievous. I can't attack with 4 hands simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmyer Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Play a sith warrior or a Jedi guardian and force leap someone and spam the smash (aoe thunderclap type spell) you will see this lag. your toon will jump like he is going to smash quiet a few times. please fix this, its the same bug that warhammer had when it launched...mythic is showing there influence for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkkh Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 We're not. Understand the argument. It's not that we can't figure it out, it's that it feels like a clunky, broken system. because it is. You are welcome to rail against the people making this argument, just like the WAR players did, and the LOTRO players, and the Rift players... you get the idea. We don't hate "your game." We bought it to see if it could be "our game" too, and it's fallen into the same trap as all of the other failed MMOs. Oh god I'm so grateful you understand how I feel about this mess. I felt like I was taking crazy pills. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DVAsmrwdtQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrswyp Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Original poster is absolutely right. This is a serious issue and if swtor wants to be a great succes it needs to adress this. I would even say swtor is worth it to adress this major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoda Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 We don't hate "your game." We bought it to see if it could be "our game" too, and it's fallen into the same trap as all of the other failed MMOs. What an amazing way to explain it. Adding that line to my arsenal immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baznasty Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 So functionally speaking, how would this work? All I've played is my BH Merc, so IDK other class's attacks yet. So I should be able to do 2 attacks more or less simultaneously? I should somehow be able to charge off a wrist rocket (which takes both hands), yet also somehow be able to fire w/ my free hand at the same time? If that's what you're all saying, I'm glad it's not that way. I'm not General Grievous. I can't attack with 4 hands simultaneously. I believe you misunderstood the point of my video. In that video I'm not casting 2 spells at the same time, I'm in fact, immediately casting an instant cast spell on top of a cast spell once the cast time is finished. The best BH example I can see is when you use your unload spell. It has a channel time. Once it's done try to immediately cast something like your flame spell or your explosive dart. Half the time even though the spell is ready to cast, the game won't let you cast it. There is still an internal cooldown happening (from the animation) that prevents it from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatrose Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Yup, in order to compete against WoW the game has to be as fluid and responsive. The character has to feel as if it's an extension of yourself and your character's actions have to feel as if they're a direct result of your actions behind the keyboard. This is one of the main reasons all other MMOs have "failed" in terms of truly challenging WoW but not the only reason (most of the games have just sucked in comparison). SWTOR, as opposed to all the failed "WoW-killers" out there, has pretty much gotten everything else down (lots of tweaking and some additional features are still needed though) so it really boils down to this; the combat doesn't feel as tight, it's not even close and unless it's worked on the number of subscriptions will begin to fall within the first year. Keep it up Bioware cause the game is truly awesome in the other areas and I don't want to have to go back to WoW in order to experience tight gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkimor Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Got my video up. This is a perfect example of how it SHOULD be. Enjoy and feedback please. Forgot to comment on this. Video is great, baznasty. Only way to improve it would be to do a side-by-side with Swtor footage. Again though, that does perfectly show what we're on about and what Swtor DOESN'T have. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoda Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Maybe the combat log was left out in some attempt to hide this massive error?!?!?!? CONSPIRACY.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feskitt Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I agree that there is a delay...and I PvP quite a bit. What I don't understand is why this constitutes anything other than a change in timing, a mental change. Maybe things are less hair-trigger than WoW, you can't cast two abilities at the same time, or mount before the mount fully appears, but you should be able to compensate for it. Whatever refinement they need to make to the system, such as more fluid animations, or tweaked cast time numbers, is fine, but the idea that this is game-breaking is baffling to me. You just have to realize that it isn't WoW, that you have to base your timing off animations rather than numbers or cast bars. For me, I always watched the animation rather than the cast bar when it came to timing abilities, even in WoW. In tight PvP situtations the delay can be frustrating, but the fact remains that it is, as far as I've seen, a relatively constant delay. While it may be something that need to be improved, I can't understand the uproar about this beyond the dislike for change in play style. I agree. Edited December 27, 2011 by Feskitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YzenDanek Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I agree that there is a delay...and I PvP quite a bit. What I don't understand is why this constitutes anything other than a change in timing, a mental change. Maybe things are less hair-trigger than WoW, you can't cast two abilities at the same time, or mount before the mount fully appears, but you should be able to compensate for it. Whatever refinement they need to make to the system, such as more fluid animations, or tweaked cast time numbers, is fine, but the idea that this is game-breaking is baffling to me. You just have to realize that it isn't WoW, that you have to base your timing off animations rather than numbers or cast bars. For me, I always watched the animation rather than the cast bar when it came to timing abilities, even in WoW. In tight PvP situtations the delay can be frustrating, but the fact remains that it is, as far as I've seen, a relatively constant delay. While it may be something that need to be improved, I can't understand the uproar about this beyond the dislike for change in play style. Yes you can adapt to a clunky interface. You shouldn't have to. Honestly, I just find it exhausting, like driving a car with poor alignment - yes, I can keep the steering wheel angled slightly right for a 20 hour drive, but why would I ever want to? This game I fight mobs and players by fighting the interface. In WoW, you just fight players and mobs; you never notice the interface because it's so smooth you don't have to. Things like this are why Apple is the second largest company in the world and not a whole bunch of other companies that had better market position to launch their own competitor to the iPod or iPhone before they were relevant. There is no replacing a responsive, intuitive interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melodey Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Hell right. I pop a shield on my tank and press it a 2nd time cost I thought it didn't connect. GCD is too PRECIOUS to be screwed around! Pleas fix this! Thank you OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akilae Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) To the OP, Part of the problem and I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere in the slew of pages, is that the damage from an ability does not take effect until the animation for the ability completes. With some abilities having a few second animations this definitely adds to the disconnect that you're talking about between when you use an ability in a quick slot bar and when the ability actually has an effect on your target. You can test this yourself by going out and waiting to last hit a mob with an instant ability that has a more complex animation. You'll see that the creature does not die until the animation completes and the scrolling combat text appears. Edited December 27, 2011 by Akilae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shampoo Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Been waiting for a post like this. This needs to be fixed or ToR won't have much of an end game. It feels "twitchy" and character movement, spell casting and delay feels unnatural. This is something WoW did perfectly--and that they had no reason not to learn from. I rarely do this but... /signed, agreed, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poryan Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Thank you for the post OP, this is something that is really negatively impacting this game for me. Honestly, I have been sitting here the passed couple days thinking to myself, "I do love this game, and have been really anticipating its release, but this issue as well as a few others lead me to think, will I renew my sub"? It absolutely NEEDS to be addressed, and done so very quickly. Huttball in particular is the prime offender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caramel_Ham Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 So functionally speaking, how would this work? All I've played is my BH Merc, so IDK other class's attacks yet. So I should be able to do 2 attacks more or less simultaneously? I should somehow be able to charge off a wrist rocket (which takes both hands), yet also somehow be able to fire w/ my free hand at the same time? If that's what you're all saying, I'm glad it's not that way. I'm not General Grievous. I can't attack with 4 hands simultaneously. All this shows to me is that the people who are saying they dont notice it, dont have a lot of experience playing MMO's. Not saying its bad, we are always new to something. But watch and LISTEN to the video again please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkkh Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Yes you can adapt to a clunky interface. You shouldn't have to. Honestly, I just find it exhausting, like driving a car with poor alignment - yes, I can keep the steering wheel angled slightly right for a 20 hour drive, but why would I ever want to? This game I fight mobs and players by fighting the interface. In WoW, you just fight players and mobs; you never notice the interface because it's so smooth you don't have to. Things like this are why Apple is the second largest company in the world and not a whole bunch of other companies that had better market position to launch their own competitor to the iPod or iPhone before they were relevant. There is no replacing a responsive, intuitive interface. I'm right there with you. It's like cooking with a hammar (station, ha). You can, but come on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoda Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I believe a lot of this might have to do with the dev's desire to make combat a visual experience. I do not remember who but I know someone made a comment along the lines of "you shouldn't have to look away from your character". I believe one of their design goals was to make the animations and effects representative of the actions the characters were performing. I believe they failed at all of this. You are still stuck looking at your hotbars the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkersw Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I believe you misunderstood the point of my video. In that video I'm not casting 2 spells at the same time, I'm in fact, immediately casting an instant cast spell on top of a cast spell once the cast time is finished. The best BH example I can see is when you use your unload spell. It has a channel time. Once it's done try to immediately cast something like your flame spell or your explosive dart. Half the time even though the spell is ready to cast, the game won't let you cast it. There is still an internal cooldown happening (from the animation) that prevents it from happening. You are so patient! Edited December 27, 2011 by Tinkersw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seismax Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Okay well... isn't this the player's fault then? I mean, my god, by lvl 48 I've done my moves and rotations how many thousands, tens-of-thousands of times...? HOW DO PEOPLE NOT HAVE THE FRIGGEN TIMING DOWN YET? How are they interrupting their own moves? What am I missing? It's really irrelevant who's fault it is, the whole point is that the design is poorly implemented. If players weren't being disoriented by false signals it wouldn't be a problem. I could pretend everything is alright and just afk in between skills, but that's not much more fun than what I've got either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkkh Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 You are so patient! You are kidding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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