Spamming GSF, and i wish i was not.

[Vox_Mortuum]

And I certainly won't be bothered to give you any help considering the condescending attitude you've shown to others in this thread whom I consider my peers and in some cases, friends.

 

 

Then do us all a favor, vent in Notepad or Word, read it, save it, and close it. If it's for personal health, you don't need to bother subjecting us to it. From my perspective, you came in here with an axe to grind, so you can kindly show yourself the door.

 

Any "condescending attitude" you see is entirely the product of frustration and not intended to be taken personally.

 

Venting does not work that way. As I am not a psychologist, giving an in depth reason is beyond me. Sufficed to say, at least for someone as introverted as I am, the mere fact that my grievance has been aired in a place where it CAN be seen is enough. Even if it were to be ignored and allowed to drift into obscurity, it is the act of making it public that is the key, not the response to it or lack thereof.

[Vox_Mortuum]

Incorrect. SWTOR is a full screen app, so something meant to be a big part of your monitor is exactly that. The targeting circle is that large, no matter whether your monitor is big or small, no matter whether you are in good resolution or bad. So yes, I know exactly its size, and it's more than a nice try.

 

Unless you want to claim you are playing SWTOR in some tiny window. We've had some pretty fantastic stuff on the forums, but if you seriously have a large complaint about the size of something and you are playing in a tiny window too, I don't even think I could contain my mirth. Let it be true let it be true let it let it

 

No, you are wrong on this. There are 3 options. Fullscreen, Fullscreen(windowed), and Windowed. The windowed option is resizable. As such any claim as to the size of anything is an assumption not based on facts. You don't know if I play in windowed mode. You don't know how large I might size the window. You also assume I have no compelling reasons to resize the window to less than full screen.

 

You would be more correct in saying that the targeting circle is always that size in relation to the overall window size.

[Ardaneb]

All of these are true, but I would say this:

(3) is true, but I'm not sure if it is an actual problem. It's good to have a "low skill floor" ship. It's frustrating to not start new players WITH that ship, however. I think the game could be totally fine with this continuing to be true.

 

I agree that it is good to have bombers and gunships for the new players to fall back on. I mostly included this number because I think that it is the primary reason that people come to the forums with the idea that bombers and gunships are overpowered. Perhaps it should not have been in a list of "problems."

[Verain]

No, you are wrong on this. There are 3 options. Fullscreen, Fullscreen(windowed), and Windowed.

 

Nope. Fullscreen and fullscreen windowed are both full screen (because we are discussing how much of the screen is in question). That's one option. A resizable window is another.

 

The windowed option is resizable. As such any claim as to the size of anything is an assumption not based on facts.

 

Yes, it is. It's a fact that the targeting circle is a huge part of your screen, because you are playing in a full screen mode.

 

Now, pretend, for the moment, that you are not. Do you understand how ludicrous it would be to shrink something down to unusability, then come in here and complain that you had shrunk it to unusability? That's absolutely fantastic.

 

You don't know if I play in windowed mode. You don't know how large I might size the window. You also assume I have no compelling reasons to resize the window to less than full screen.

 

You either play in a full screen mode and are having problems moving your mouse in something the size of most of your window, or you have deliberately shrunk the playable screen and are complaining about the fact that you did that. Either way, you're so far from a complaint that makes sense that I doubt you could even draw a map to it.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Verain

[nyghtrunner]

Any "condescending attitude" you see is entirely the product of frustration and not intended to be taken personally.

 

Venting does not work that way. As I am not a psychologist, giving an in depth reason is beyond me. Sufficed to say, at least for someone as introverted as I am, the mere fact that my grievance has been aired in a place where it CAN be seen is enough. Even if it were to be ignored and allowed to drift into obscurity, it is the act of making it public that is the key, not the response to it or lack thereof.

Well then understand that when you make it public, and state things as fact that you are effectively telling us you know nothing about ("he was sitting still, so I know everything hit him", for instance)... That isn't usually a good way to go about it.

 

In general, the community here, especially on the forums, is eager to help pilots asking for it, and there are a few threads on here that started similarly, and after some of the forum peeps started commenting and trying to figure out why the person was having problems and help them, have evolved into good threads.

 

The issue I have with this one and where it has gone is that is feels very much like you wish to remain combative to any response given with short retorts and such, and the impression I get, correct or incorrect, is that you wish to remain frustrated with the module, and want everyone in this particular forum who loves and plays GSF a LOT to know that you think it's garbage for every reason. I may not know you, but that is the impression I get from you, and for better or worse, you've given me very little reason to think otherwise.

 

I guess in a way, I look at it in a similar vein as someone going into a club that is known to be a hangout for homosexuals, walking right up to the stage, grabbing the mic, and decreeing that "Homosexuality is wrong because reasons!" Regardless of your opinion or why you would feel that way, it's not exactly productive, and no one in that club is going to appreciate you going in there and bashing them like that.

 

If you want to make something productive out of this, just say so, and be open to help offered, rather than resorting to the "you don't know me!" thing. You don't know any of us either. Just as the jerk who goes into the bar in the scenario above knows nothing about any of the other people there.

 

If you actually want to get better at GSF, and understand more about it, just ask. We have in house feuds on the particulars, but in general, most of the people actively posting on the forums are friendly and more than willing to help or offer advice so long as the recipient is willing to listen. Hell, some of the people on here regularly are willing to try to find you on your server, group up with you, bring you in voice, and try to help you out that way.

 

So I go back to it... If all you want to do is rage about GSF and how awful everything about it is from top to bottom, find another forum (Might I suggest this one). If you came here actually looking for help, just say so, and be receptive to the comments and feedback.

 

I'd have to go back and reread, but nothing I have memory of reading in this thread makes me think you came here to get better or learn, just to rage.

[Verain]

Well put. I get being frustrated about pvp, but when someone with a handful of games coming in like they understand GSF, complete with balance rants like all the 1k+ game players don't understand anything, is beyond insulting. Everyone here loves to help new players. We want them all to be great at GSF as soon as possible. But ranting about poorly understood game balance is just not productive nor correct. Edited April 30, 2015 by Verain

[Vox_Mortuum]

Nope. Fullscreen and fullscreen windowed are both full screen (because we are discussing how much of the screen is in question). That's one option. A resizable window is another.

 

 

 

Yes, it is. It's a fact that the targeting circle is a huge part of your screen, because you are playing in a full screen mode.

 

Now, pretend, for the moment, that you are not. Do you understand how ludicrous it would be to shrink something down to unusability, then come in here and complain that you had shrunk it to unusability? That's absolutely fantastic.

 

 

 

You either play in a full screen mode and are having problems moving your mouse in something the size of most of your window, or you have deliberately shrunk the playable screen and are complaining about the fact that you did that. Either way, you're so far from a complaint that makes sense that I doubt you could even draw a map to it.

 

1. I did not at any point complain about being unable to keep my mouse inside the targeting circle. You asserted that I was having that problem, Not me.

 

2. You then claimed that the targeting circle was "two thirds" of my screen. That is not true as I do not play in a full screen mode.

 

3. You then make the ridiculous assertion that either I am playing in full screen, and that you are correct about the size, or I have shrunk the window down to the point of it being unusable. Once again this is not true, as I neither play in full screen, nor do I have the window as small as you suggest, nor have I complained about the targeting circle.

 

4 You now go on to simply assert that I am in fact playing in full screen, and that if I hypothetically wasn't playing in full screen then I am here complaining about not playing in full screen. Now, while I agree that would be an amusing argument to witness, sadly it is still only a product of your imagination.

 

 

Since I have apparently been unclear in my briefer replies let me settle this definitively for you.

 

I do not play in full screen, so the asserted size of the targeting circle is wrong. The reason behind playing in a windowed mode is to increase performance. the increase in fps is quite agreeable and far outweighs the disadvantage of not having everything blown up to maximum size.

I have not shrunk the window to the size you insinuate. At a guess I would say my window is around two thirds the size of my overall screen, as such the targeting circle is about 1/6th of my screen.

I have not complained about an inability to keep my mouse inside the targeting circle. I complained about what happens to it if it leaves the circle.

 

I had thought that my other replies were pointed enough to suggest that you might not know all you think you know about my computer and its setup. Obviously I was mistaken, and I hope that this has cleared up you're confusion.

[tommmsunb]

Furthermore, the fact you bothered to drop in and post your opinion about my rant at all indicates some level of caring.

 

I'm a bit of a sadist, there's another false premise

[Vox_Mortuum]

Thank you for the reply, I found it significantly more instructive and well reasoned than the majority.

 

I would like to note that my post was the clearly ill considered culmination of table flipping frustration induced rage.

I am open to the fact that I am wrong on all counts. However, I maintain that any game that requires you to slog through that level of frustration, and put in potentially dozens of hours of practice before it becomes enjoyable clearly has design flaws.

 

By this time I have passed beyond blind rage and reach the calm shoals of "oh, is 10 strike fighters against 6 gunships and 4 bombers, looks like were getting stomped this deathmatch." resignation.

[Verain]

As an actual tip, try setting your Windows resolution to something low, then playing full screen windowed. If you can play full screen without breaking everything, use that with a low resolution.

 

There's no gain from not being full screen, ever. There is a gain from making your graphics card calculate fewer pixels, and you are getting that by forcing a smaller window. Try lower resolutions to get that effect without shrinking your playspace.

[tunewalker]

reminder, its either 8 vs 8 or 12 vs 12.... its never 10 vs 10.

 

 

Its difficult to help honestly with out knowing what you do and dont know.

 

 

Do you play the ground game?

 

Do you know how Defense vs Accuracy works?

 

Did you turn on Detailed tool tips for GSF?

 

Do you know what tracking penalties are?

 

Do you know what the tracking penalty of the weapon you are using is?

 

Have you read the Stasiepedia?

 

Have you checked Draks Youtube Tutorial Videos?

 

 

 

 

This game DOES have a steep learning curve, unfortunately do to some component imbalances (Rapid Fire Lasers) it can make it even worse on new players.

 

 

Have you thought about looking up Dulfies GSF Calculator to look up components and upgrades to get an idea of what your opponent may be using (this in conjunction with Stasipidia is basically the go to way to understand what your enemy is likely using on you) Dont read the guides there.

 

 

So on and so forth. None of us have lied to you. Gunships are fairly well balanced against scouts and Bombers. The game is difficult to get into, its like throwing some one who has never pvped into a Rated Arena game, telling every one that game they can pick what ever class they want and build them nearly any way, except the new guy he can only pick 2 (or 4) of the classes and can only build them this one way, and expecting the new guy not only to make the right decision but that the Veterans in the game still dont have a better optimized set up that has worked the same way for the last year. They know the ins and outs of everything you chose and exactly how to counter it.

 

At this point for me often times I dont even bother thinking about how I am going to kill some one, I just kill them in GSF, and it IS specific to the ship on how, its just no thought of how am I going to approach is usually needed, I already know how I am going to approach, how they are going to respond, and how in the end they are going to end up just another mark on my score board.

 

The only time this breaks is when into players that are either much better then I expected them to be, or if I run into an Ace I know, then the mind games ensue and it gets fun. The only other time is I get cocky get blown out of the sky and shake my head, YEP... I deserved that well played.

[Vox_Mortuum]

Thanks for the reminder, I actually did not know there were only 8 and 12 man teams. I was not trying for accuracy so much as using that as quick example though. Much the same way people exaggerate to show a point they are making, the number itself was largely irrelevant to the point I was making, so I didn't sweat it so much. Edited May 1, 2015 by Vox_Mortuum

[Vox_Mortuum]

As an actual tip, try setting your Windows resolution to something low, then playing full screen windowed. If you can play full screen without breaking everything, use that with a low resolution.

 

There's no gain from not being full screen, ever. There is a gain from making your graphics card calculate fewer pixels, and you are getting that by forcing a smaller window. Try lower resolutions to get that effect without shrinking your playspace.

 

Thanks for the tip, however for reasons I wont begin to guess at when my resolution drops too low I start getting massive lag spikes. My work around is simply to drop the screen size. Windowed mode seems to have a default and unchangeable resolution setting at I think something like 1036x756 or something similar, which is moderate and high enough my computer doesn't throw a fit. (I was quite pleased when I found upping the resolution not only made it look better (flip on over to 800x600 and enjoy.) but also run smoother.)

 

For me, who is a practiced hand at games like "league of legends at 2 fps" every frame is precious. and well worth a slightly smaller screen.

 

Obviously full screen would be preferable, but unfortunately I have to work with what I have. It isn't optimal but it is functional.

 

On another note:

One might argue that at a high level play a smaller screen might actually be helpful for people who have the reflexes to make good use of the shorter distances you have to move the cursor, enabling faster twitch reflex gameplay. I don't know if twitch reflexes come into play very much though, so who knows.

 

Finally, and on a completely separate topic: I really wish ship collision was on (even if only for opposing teams). If I am doomed to just feed more experienced players at the very least give me the option to spam "super stealth kamikaze scout". If only for the vindictive pleasure of just ramming it up that one guys...

But then maybe that's just me.

[tunewalker]

Thanks for the reminder, I actually did not know there were only 8 and 12 man teams. I was not trying for accuracy so much as using that a quick example though. Much the same way people exaggerate to show a point they are making, the number itself was largely irrelevant to the point I was making, so I didn't sweat it so much.

 

That's cool, and understandable. Just wanting to get you as much accurate information as possible, as the more you have the easier it is to understand the game.

 

Largely I doubt there is a large "skill" difference, but from what I have seen its a rather large "Knowledge" Difference, You probably have all the tools and skills you need to do well, you just dont know the right things to do TO do well.

 

Strike Fighters while Under Powered in comparison to the rest of the ships DO have a way of both building them and playing them that can make them competitive against players slightly less skilled then yourself or even occassionally on the same skill level, but they take a lot more effort, and recognizing WHEN you are not in a good position against an Opponent, and using the Right tools for the job.

 

 

For example Against a Gunship I rarely if ever use a Strike fighter, if it hits me with an Ion I am dead in the water on both of the "combat Strikes" the T1 that you start with (starguard/Rycer) or the T2 (Pike, Quell) as your only engine manuever that can get you far distances is Barrel Roll which has both a long CD and High cost. The Ion usually has drained your engine power AND has you slightly slowed and dead shields. In this situation, its bend over and kiss your butt good bye, you do not have the tools to survive the next shot. If you are using QCS, you can use your shield ability to take MAYBE 1 more hit, if you were lucky when you took this shot with Directionals and had them facing away you can now face them proper and take maybe a couple more shots, but the true issue is not being able to get to cover.

 

If you want to use a strike against a Gunship the best way you are going to do it, as have many already suggested here, come in at high deflection. Then get your guns as close to center as you can, you should probably either be using Ion and Clusters, or Heavy and Clusters, or even Quads and Clusters, If you arent hunting bombers, Ptoprs are absolutely useless, even most strike fighters can evade it easily. (Lock on time 4 seconds before upgrade 3.4 seconds after, CD 12 seconds, engine Maneuver AKA Missile break CD 15 seconds on most missile breaks. The time to Lock and CD is LONGER then the Majority of Missile break CD times.... Disclaimer Missile break CD times based on AFTER upgrades as the first 2 upgrades are only a total of around 4,000 points and some of the earliest upgrades most get with their ship requisition.) To top it off most of the ships in the Meta, (T2 Scout, T1 Scout, T1 Gunship, T3 Gunship) all have Distortion field, and often use it for its Second missile break (final upgrade on it that almost every one takes), making the lock time and reload time of even Conc missile to force it to be largely unreliable. This is why Clusters are considered the only Reliable missile in the game.

 

Make sure you are using the proper crew members, you want the ones that provide accuracy as the standard, and either Running Interference or Wingman for Co-pilot abilities. Evasion allows enemies to miss you even if they are dead center (IE if you are shooting at a non moving target and see no numbers you are "missing" do to evade/ accuracy) while of course Accuracy allows you to hit them easier. The further you are off center when firing your weapons the more of an accuracy penalty you get.

 

Verains suggestion of playing full screen is assuredly one you should take seriously, even if you just lower your graphics a little, it may help you to have a "larger" reticle and game area for which to respond with, with out your mouse getting stuck off some where you dont want it.

 

I dont know about others, but I do know that I play with pretty standard Mouse and Keyboard, in fact I may need to replace my keyboard soon do to keys starting to get warn out....

 

If you can do well in the ground game, in things such as Rated PvP or Hard Mode Ops and the like, then you likely already do possess a good portion of the skills you require with mouse and keyboard to do well in GSF, you just have a very large lack of understanding of the basics of the games engine and design as well as functions of different ships and how you have essentially been thrust into an over year long meta.

 

 

Edit: what do you know about power management?

Edited May 1, 2015 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Something else to note, should check out the PVP terminal if you havent, get the mission for GSF 5,000 FLEET requistion. Buy a T1 Gunship and a T1 Bomber.

 

Also you are NOT stuck into a single ship once you choose it in the match....

 

Those 8 Strikes vs 4 Gunships 4 Bombers can change themselves into 8 gunships and go MWAAAHAAAHAAA, it is now WE who have the Gunships... because seriously every one should have the T1 Gunship, Bomber, Scout and Strike after their first game in GSF thanks to the 5k Requisition given from the "tutorial" quest....

[OKonst]

I wanted to seize the opportunity and apologize for my harsh comments on the first page - at that moment I saw you as just another one of those people who think "Tie-Fighter rulez, GSF sucks 'cause...".

 

But your last posts clearly show that you do care about this game already (Yay!!!) and all of the aces here have given you invaluable advice - if you stick to them and maybe whisper an ace on your team after a game if he/she wants to queue with you...THAT alone can make all the difference between fun and frustration in a match:)

 

Keep at it - you'll do really well soon enough!

[JediMinerBob]

You are not supposed to take your mouse out of the circle. If you are doing that on purpose, stop. If you are doing that on accident, practice until you don't and get better mouse control.

 

Wait, what?!? Serious question here from a beginner: are you saying that moving the cursor outside of the reticle does not turn the ship faster? Whoa! Have to test that one tonight!

[JediMinerBob]

Also you are NOT stuck into a single ship once you choose it in the match....

That is an excellent point. My friend, who has gotten into GSF with me recently, played a number of games before he realized that:

 

A. He could switch ships at the start of the match by clicking on the silhouettes.

B. He could do that each time he re-spawned after death.

 

Little points they don't teach in the tutorial flight. (Although it may be buried somewhere in the tutorial text.)

[Nemarus]

Wait, what?!? Serious question here from a beginner: are you saying that moving the cursor outside of the reticle does not turn the ship faster? Whoa! Have to test that one tonight!

 

Verain acknowledged he was incorrect on this.

 

You do have to move the reticle outside the arc to reach max turning speed.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Nemarus

[Vox_Mortuum]

I wanted to seize the opportunity and apologize for my harsh comments on the first page - at that moment I saw you as just another one of those people who think "Tie-Fighter rulez, GSF sucks 'cause...".

 

But your last posts clearly show that you do care about this game already (Yay!!!) and all of the aces here have given you invaluable advice - if you stick to them and maybe whisper an ace on your team after a game if he/she wants to queue with you...THAT alone can make all the difference between fun and frustration in a match:)

 

Keep at it - you'll do really well soon enough!

 

Thanks, but there is no need to apologize I was raging and deserved whatever drubbings I got.

 

Honestly, forum raging is not something I do often. But this game really got under my skin for some reason.

 

As an aside, I think this game could really use PvE missions. Whether PvE in the same format or PvE in a more mission oriented manner or both. Either would help new players to get used to the game and learn without the frustration of spending 15 minutes getting facerolled by people who know more and have already unlocked a lot of upgrades.

[Danalon]

As an aside, I think this game could really use PvE missions. Whether PvE in the same format or PvE in a more mission oriented manner or both. Either would help new players to get used to the game and learn without the frustration of spending 15 minutes getting facerolled by people who know more and have already unlocked a lot of upgrades.

 

SWtoR has PvE space missions. But AI development is expensive and that's why they're railroad shooters and boring. And for the exact same reason GSF will probably never have PvE content. The best we can hope for are improvements to the tutorial level - a hangar with all ships, components and upgrades unlocked or moving targets or maybe a group tutorial zone for practice with or against selected people.

 

Getting facerolled should be prevented by the matchmaking system; unfortunately the matchmaker needs more players participating to work. Sometimes when there are a lot of people queuing in GSF heavy conquest weeks the matches get more balanced - just last week it happened that both sides on my servers had a lot of wargames in the afternoon, republic side with a lot of 5shippers and imperial side with a lot of newer pilots.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Danalon