So Bioware, about people bypassing the locked part on Ziost to fight the OP Boss etc.

[Infernixx]

It 'would' be hilarious if they were locked out from Monday's content and had nothing to show for it.

 

That'd be poetic.

[Honra]

If a player is bypassing the environment to access an area they should not be able to, and then killing a boss to get loot they should also not have access to, we absolutely consider this an exploit.

 

Bioware, please learn to use the tools you have to prevent this from happening. If you make landscapes, rocky cliffs, the put a wall above them all so you cant pass them! Saying this you just half *** your landscapes and couldnt be bothered to actually use correct coding.. -.- No wonder why so many people are leaving for WoW...

[Atlanis]

Hey folks,

 

As I mentioned earlier this morning, we very quickly isolated what the exploit entailed and began an investigation into players who have participated. As of now, we have identified those unique accounts which have gone into the blocked off area of Ziost, and killed one of the two bosses present. For each of these players, they will receive a minimum of the following action:

• Multiple day suspension
  
• Removal of all gear earned through defeating those bosses
  
• Removal of all achievements earned through defeating those bosses
  
• Reduction in Elite and Ultimate Commendations
  

 

We will continue to monitor the blocked off area of Ziost throughout Monday, May the 4th, which is when it opens officially. Any player who is found to participate in this exploit beyond today’s notice will likely receive more aggressive action. Thank you all for bringing this to our attention.

 

-eric

 

Even the normal angry Sentinel gives his thumbs up, nice job on this one. Make it clear to everyone exploiting is not allowed

 

P.S.: It is not Biowares fault that players develop criminal energy to glitch oneself through some stuff that practicly had been blocked of after some people discovered it on the PTS. Everyone knew the Area would open on Monday, no need to say it is Biowares fault that people are criminal. Bioware is responsible for many things, but not for the stupidity and criminal energy players develop to get what they want. Or would you say that someone beeing raped has some responsibility because he doesn´t run around in a Burka:mad: Same logic in your Arguments people!

Edited April 30, 2015 by Atlanis

[Infernixx]

Bioware, please learn to use the tools you have to prevent this from happening. If you make landscapes, rocky cliffs, the put a wall above them all so you cant pass them! Saying this you just half *** your landscapes and couldnt be bothered to actually use correct coding.. -.- No wonder why so many people are leaving for WoW...

 

This one is strong with the mad.

[DarthEccen]

Thank you, Bioware, for dealing with this promptly. On the other hand, if you want to avoid this in the future, maybe don't stagger the release of content just for the sake of an event.

[Khiriath]

Everyone that I know that did this went about it this way.

 

1) They responded to a pug group shout on fleet to do a Ziost WB or got an invite from a guildie who had responded to a fleet shout for a WB pug group.

2) They were summoned to phased area by a guild ship.

3) They didn't realize they had done anything wrong, and a few spent hrs searching Ziost trying to find the hidden area that they had just been in, until one of the officers in guild happened upon this thread while updating guild webby with latest SWTOR news.

 

Now they have either received or are facing, at minimum 3 day bans.

 

My take away as an officer in one of the largest and most active guilds on Red Eclipse server is: Don't join PUG groups, don't take PUGs on runs, and actively discourage guildies from doing PUGs because you never know when someone may break the rules and you get a 3 day(or more) ban as well as other punishment.

[Infernixx]

Oh yes, I'm sure not one of those blithely unaware players stopped and asked anyone 'what WB is this? I've never seen this. Where is this?'

[FerkWork]

Everyone that I know that did this went about it this way.

 

1) They responded to a pug group shout on fleet to do a Ziost WB or got an invite from a guildie who had responded to a fleet shout for a WB pug group.

2) They were summoned to phased area by a guild ship.

3) They didn't realize they had done anything wrong, and a few spent hrs searching Ziost trying to find the hidden area that they had just been in, until one of the officers in guild happened upon this thread while updating guild webby with latest SWTOR news.

 

Now they have either received or are facing, at minimum 3 day bans.

 

My take away as an officer in one of the largest and most active guilds on Red Eclipse server is: Don't join PUG groups, don't take PUGs on runs, and actively discourage guildies from doing PUGs because you never know when someone may break the rules and you get a 3 day(or more) ban as well as other punishment.

 

Lol this is hilarious. I give 1/10

[FerkWork]

Bioware, please learn to use the tools you have to prevent this from happening. If you make landscapes, rocky cliffs, the put a wall above them all so you cant pass them! Saying this you just half *** your landscapes and couldnt be bothered to actually use correct coding.. -.- No wonder why so many people are leaving for WoW...

 

Then don't exploit.

 

/thread

Edited April 30, 2015 by FerkWork

[Danery]

Everyone that I know that did this went about it this way.

 

1) They responded to a pug group shout on fleet to do a Ziost WB or got an invite from a guildie who had responded to a fleet shout for a WB pug group.

2) They were summoned to phased area by a guild ship.

3) They didn't realize they had done anything wrong, and a few spent hrs searching Ziost trying to find the hidden area that they had just been in, until one of the officers in guild happened upon this thread while updating guild webby with latest SWTOR news.

 

Now they have either received or are facing, at minimum 3 day bans.

 

My take away as an officer in one of the largest and most active guilds on Red Eclipse server is: Don't join PUG groups, don't take PUGs on runs, and actively discourage guildies from doing PUGs because you never know when someone may break the rules and you get a 3 day(or more) ban as well as other punishment.

 

So not one single person stopped to wonder about an ops instance they had seen nothing about? Not one person bothered to ask why they had to be summoned to do it? Not one person showed the least bit of curiousity whatsoever? I'm sorry but I just dont believe it for a second.

[Flying-Brian]

Hey folks,

 

As I mentioned earlier this morning, we very quickly isolated what the exploit entailed and began an investigation into players who have participated. As of now, we have identified those unique accounts which have gone into the blocked off area of Ziost, and killed one of the two bosses present. For each of these players, they will receive a minimum of the following action:

 

- Multiple day suspension

- Removal of all gear earned through defeating those bosses

- Removal of all achievements earned through defeating those bosses

- Reduction in Elite and Ultimate Commendations

 

 

We will continue to monitor the blocked off area of Ziost throughout Monday, May the 4th, which is when it opens officially. Any player who is found to participate in this exploit beyond today’s notice will likely receive more aggressive action. Thank you all for bringing this to our attention.

 

-eric

 

You should look at issuing your design and content team some of the same punishments, for once again allowing broken content to go live.

How about:

- Multiple day suspension

- Removal of all any bonus paid while working on this content

- Removal of all vacation time occured while working on this content

- Reduction in pay to anyone that participated in testing the content

Edited April 30, 2015 by Flying-Brian

[FerkWork]

You should look at issuing your design and content team some of the same punishments, for once again allowing broken content to go live.

How about:

- Multiple day suspension

- Removal of all any bonus paid while working on this content

- Removal of all vacation time occured while working on this content

- Reduction in pay to anyone that participated in testing the content

 

 

Do you tell the judge that too?

[Danery]

You should look at issuing your design and content team some of the same punishments, for once again allowing broken content to go live.

How about:

- Multiple day suspension

- Removal of all any bonus paid while working on this content

- Removal of all vacation time occured while working on this content

- Reduction in pay to anyone that participated in testing the content

 

The content is not "broken". People with entirely too much time on their hands found a way to climb an area to get into new content. Thats just a "blame the victim" resort people take because they refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. People are saying this isnt like Ravagers, and they are right. The Ravagers Exploit was a broken mechanic that laid dormant for weeks on end so yes some of the blame there could be placed on Biowares feet, even if that doesnt excuse the actions people took on their own to exploit it.This time bioware fixed the way people used to find a way into it on the PTS, which btw when people saw that area was no longer able to be used that should have been their first clue, and players decided they didnt give a damn Bioware said we werent intended to access it yet. They were going to look for whatever small crack they could find to get in, and then summon other people to get more in. Then they started SELLING access to the area to other players. The blame is entirely on the players here, not Bioware.

 

All games have bugs, even similar to this where you can purposefully get to areas you arent supposed to be able to get to, and you wont ever get rid of them. What you can expect is that the players who signed a ToS agreement stating they would not exploit those bugs to be the kind of people that honor their agreements.

 

But no, we have people who care more about their e-***** and proving how macho they are that they could be the first to kill a boss that 99% of the population couldnt get to, probably because they knew they didnt stand a chance at a world first if they had to compete with everyone else. Well, good job. You succeeded. And guess what. No one in the 99% is going to count that kill as legitimate, you lost all the loot you needed to make yourself feel better and that makes you feel like your e-***** is the best, and you were banned for 3 days. And it was completely 100% your fault.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Danery

[Andrellma]

Everyone that I know that did this went about it this way.

 

1) They responded to a pug group shout on fleet to do a Ziost WB or got an invite from a guildie who had responded to a fleet shout for a WB pug group.

2) They were summoned to phased area by a guild ship.

3) They didn't realize they had done anything wrong, and a few spent hrs searching Ziost trying to find the hidden area that they had just been in, until one of the officers in guild happened upon this thread while updating guild webby with latest SWTOR news.

 

Now they have either received or are facing, at minimum 3 day bans.

 

My take away as an officer in one of the largest and most active guilds on Red Eclipse server is: Don't join PUG groups, don't take PUGs on runs, and actively discourage guildies from doing PUGs because you never know when someone may break the rules and you get a 3 day(or more) ban as well as other punishment.

 

 

Much like how ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law, ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking the rules.

 

I realize that only a small percentage read the forums, but that does not excuse them from this any more than the fact that very few people read the Denver City Code excuses them from not knowing that it is illegal to sleep in your car in Denver. Every player agreed to the TOS when they joined the game. BioWare made the announcement that this is a direct violation of that TOS that we all agreed to.

 

Not to mention, every time that I have seen a PUG group forming on fleet, on Ziost, or wherever for these WB's, other players have always (not sometimes, not even almost always, but every. single. time.) pointed out this very thread, and that it was an exploit, and that people had already been banned for it. So, again, ignorance is not an excuse.

 

My takeaway from this as an officer in one of the largest and most active guilds on Harbinger is this: Make sure your guildmembers know the rules. Make sure that they know this is an exploit. Post it on your guild website, make it known in guild chat. As an officer, your job is to lead, and part of that leading process involves setting (and following) standards (ie. follow the rules), and ensuring that those you lead understand, and follow the standard.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Oh yes, I'm sure not one of those blithely unaware players stopped and asked anyone 'what WB is this? I've never seen this. Where is this?'

 

See I do imagine putting myself into the shoes of the unknowing, and there will be some unknowing 'innocents'.

 

That is to say not reading forums etc. as I do and logging in to the game ( having still not done Ziost which I haven't ) to find a summons request from my guild to do the new WB/OP etc. for Ziost.

 

To me that would actually seem perfectly logical and safe because, as I mentioned, I haven't done Ziost yet.

There is nothing anywhere in game that tells me about this exploit.

 

Most people would know Ziost was incoming etc. and even the patch notes never mentioned anything about a locked out zone etc. The only reason I even knew there was a locked area was from peoples complaints about it on forums which lead BW to finally comment about it.

 

I do feel sorry for those people as they could easily have been legitimately caught unaware.

 

What I think needs to happen now is for major things like this BW need an IN GAME system of communication to let people know. Be it on the login screen, in game mail, or a ticket note that flashes up letting everyone know of the issue.

 

I.E. you login, you have the green flashing ticket icon, click it and read a dev msg about the Ziost WB/OP boss being locked until Monday however they are aware of people bypassing the lock and warn everyone to avoid any summons to fight these bosses or face bans.

 

It really goes to show there needs to be a better form of communication than forums ( which the majority don't read ) for major things like this otherwise it's not entirely fair for Bioware to ban everyone. Blanket bans though just mean less work for Bioware on the investigation front.

[Aries_cz]

What would you do, execute them? It's a very reasonable action.

 

Off with their heads!

[Khiriath]

Much like how ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law, ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking the rules.

 

I realize that only a small percentage read the forums, but that does not excuse them from this any more than the fact that very few people read the Denver City Code excuses them from not knowing that it is illegal to sleep in your car in Denver. Every player agreed to the TOS when they joined the game. BioWare made the announcement that this is a direct violation of that TOS that we all agreed to.[/Quote]

 

So typically American in your response. First you assume that your own legislative norms should be enforced on all others. Then you bring an example of how your nation penalizes destitution... Nice.

 

Not to mention, every time that I have seen a PUG group forming on fleet, on Ziost, or wherever for these WB's, other players have always (not sometimes, not even almost always, but every. single. time.) pointed out this very thread, and that it was an exploit, and that people had already been banned for it. So, again, ignorance is not an excuse.

 

Well that makes sense. You live in Denver(assuming from your referral to Denver penal code). So for you this thread got started at 2100 on April 27 and got a Dev response(when the majority of us could reasonably expected to take note) at 0900 on April 28th. However for those of us who play in places stretching from APAC to Europe, this thread didn't get started until very late in the day on April 29, and at least for my own local time, did not receive a Dev response(again when we can be reasonably expected to take note) until 2300 on April 29 with bans being handed out 0400 on April 30th.

 

So when the majority of the inviting to do WB was occurring on my own server, this thread didn't even exist.

 

My takeaway from this as an officer in one of the largest and most active guilds on Harbinger is this: Make sure your guildmembers know the rules. Make sure that they know this is an exploit. Post it on your guild website, make it known in guild chat. As an officer, your job is to lead, and part of that leading process involves setting (and following) standards (ie. follow the rules), and ensuring that those you lead understand, and follow the standard.

 

Again typically American and parochial in response. Considering that for your server this was a known exploit before most people had their morning coffee, but for others of us, it wasn't. Must be nice dwelling on the only server that BW seems to really care about.

[Khiriath]

So not one single person stopped to wonder about an ops instance they had seen nothing about?

Its new content... why would they?

Not one person bothered to ask why they had to be summoned to do it?

I guess you don't PUG things very often. This is very typical as most of us don't want to wait the inordinate amount of time it takes people to find an instance, especially when content is new. As someone who has waited 45min-1hr for people to find Ravagers(or even realize it isn't on Yavin) and TOS, I don't question when someone would prefer to simply summon.

Not one person showed the least bit of curiousity whatsoever? I'm sorry but I just dont believe it for a second.

Showing curiousity and realizing that you had been sucked into an exploit are two very different things.

 

Let's take a second and compare this to Ravagergate-

Ravagers exploit- No boss to fight simply enter and loot

Monolith "exploit" - A phased area with a very difficult boss to fight and possibly wipe on.

 

Ravagers exploit- 1 person gets all loot for 16m content

Monolith "exploit"- each raid member needed to roll for loot

 

Ravagers exploit- went 7weeks with people looting repeatedly with multiple charachters(I know one player who did this with 22 toons for the full 9 weeks)

Monolith "exploit"- Roughly 48hrs in game before Devs take action

 

Ravagers exploit- Devs issue a warning after 7 weeks, only penalize those who continue to exploit after said warning, allow them to keep all loot(said person above still has 3 stacks of Matter Transubstantiators) and give them a 1 days suspension.

Monolith "exploit"- Devs issue no informative warning, take immediate action against anyone who entered phased area regardless of how(yes I know ppl who jumped out as soon as they were summoned in realizing it was inappropriate and still got smacked with a 72hr ban).

 

Not only are the punishments on this disproportionate in the extreme considering the punishments handed out for Ravagers, many innocent people have received 72hr bans. Unless that is in your pitchfork mob mentality you think that those suckered in should be slapped with a 72hr ban.

 

So let's review your questions:

So not one single person stopped to wonder about an ops instance they had seen nothing about?

Doesn't matter if they did. Once inside, even if they didn't engage the boss and jumped out back to fleet or guild ship they still got slapped with a 72hr ban.

 

Not one person bothered to ask why they had to be summoned to do it?

Completely normative in my experience.

 

Not one person showed the least bit of curiousity whatsoever? I'm sorry but I just dont believe it for a second.

Again doesn't matter. Once in area, even without engaging content, they received a 72hr ban.

 

What is unbelievable is that BW was so heavy handed on this, and the rabid reponse of the pitchfork crowd.

[Aries_cz]

So typically American in your response. First you assume that your own legislative norms should be enforced on all others. Then you bring an example of how your nation penalizes destitution... Nice.

Actually, not knowing a law not being excuse is pretty much in every law system of western world. He is right about everybody agreeing to TOS when they registered. that they skipped the thing and just clicked agree is their fault.

 

Well that makes sense. You live in Denver(assuming from your referral to Denver penal code). So for you this thread got started at 2100 on April 27 and got a Dev response(when the majority of us could reasonably expected to take note) at 0900 on April 28th. However for those of us who play in places stretching from APAC to Europe, this thread didn't get started until very late in the day on April 29, and at least for my own local time, did not receive a Dev response(again when we can be reasonably expected to take note) until 2300 on April 29 with bans being handed out 0400 on April 30th.

 

So when the majority of the inviting to do WB was occurring on my own server, this thread didn't even exist.

Gaining access to a location that is not intended should strike everybody as "odd" at least, so they could realize it is an exploit.

 

Again typically American and parochial in response. Considering that for your server this was a known exploit before most people had their morning coffee, but for others of us, it wasn't. Must be nice dwelling on the only server that BW seems to really care about.

Again, it was pretty obvious that it is an exploit.

[Banegio]

Gaining access to a location that is not intended should strike everybody as "odd" at least, so they could realize it is an exploit.

 

Again, it was pretty obvious that it is an exploit.

 

The word "intended".... How do we know what is "intended"?

 

Let's use the modern world's "reasonable person" standard.

 

A reasonable person would think that exhaustion zone is to indicate the "intended" boundary of the playable environment. Yet how many players have run through the exhaustion zone to obtain the datacron in Ilum? And without the player first took the risk to explore, we wouldn't discover that datacron.

[StefanInter]

Good that exploiters got punished.

 

But this is all on Bioware for releasing broken content again...If they didn't want people to access it they should have add an exhaustion zone and patched it on monday...

[Loc_n_lol]

Punishment completely out of line with the slap on the wrist handed out for the Ravagers. Most of those who did Monolith did not even get any loot. If you'd punished the Ravagers exploiters as harshly, they should still be banned to this day and their characters should be naked, and instead you gave them golden trophies. GG.

[Halinalle]

But this is all on Bioware for releasing broken content again...If they didn't want people to access it they should have add an exhaustion zone and patched it on monday...

 

Like this?

[emeraldon]

The word "intended".... How do we know what is "intended"?

 

Let's use the modern world's "reasonable person" standard.

 

A reasonable person would think that exhaustion zone is to indicate the "intended" boundary of the playable environment. Yet how many players have run through the exhaustion zone to obtain the datacron in Ilum? And without the player first took the risk to explore, we wouldn't discover that datacron.

 

A reasonable person would also think that having to climb a mountain to get access to a blocked off zone is not intended.

[Khiriath]

Actually, not knowing a law not being excuse is pretty much in every law system of western world. He is right about everybody agreeing to TOS when they registered. that they skipped the thing and just clicked agree is their fault.

Only in regards to public safety and welfare... but I'll leave that point aside.

 

Gaining access to a location that is not intended should strike everybody as "odd" at least, so they could realize it is an exploit.

 

See this as it pretty much sums up the problem with this argument.

The word "intended".... How do we know what is "intended"?

 

Let's use the modern world's "reasonable person" standard.

 

A reasonable person would think that exhaustion zone is to indicate the "intended" boundary of the playable environment. Yet how many players have run through the exhaustion zone to obtain the datacron in Ilum? And without the player first took the risk to explore, we wouldn't discover that datacron.

 

To your final point.

Again, it was pretty obvious that it is an exploit.

So getting summoned to a place you have never seen before is an "obvious exploit". As one of the prime raid leaders in my guild I'm often jumping in to content I haven't gotten to in story line yet. I was summoned to Temple of Sacrifice before my toon had set humble hero boots on Yavin(or even the second half of Rishi).

 

So again with people shouting on fleet that they are forming PUG groups for Ziost WB, without mention that it was an exploit and before this thread ever got started it was hardly "obvious" that it was an exploit or "unintended".

 

The failure rests at least in part with BW. As I don't know what actual barrier was penetrated on Ziost or how, I can't say regarding those who did the summoning, HOWEVER, for those who were summoned there is no reasonable expectation that they would immediately know that it was unintended.

 

Further the very existence of this thread, and that despite it there are still constant questions flying in GC about whether it is a bug should be ample evidence that many people did not realize what was and was not intended.

 

Honestly the other thing that bothers me about this is that 6 months after the release of SOR and I still cannot loot the 16m version of the Revan fight in Temple of Sacrifice. Still can't exit combat, still continue to take dmg after fight is over until dead. Any attempts to be revived or respawn still result in a return to combat and an inability to loot. Week after week of tickets and I haven't been awarded a single com that I have rightfully earned. Yet the Devs don't hesitate to issue bans and strip coms from people who inadvertently fought a WB.

 

IMO the broken ability to loot from content honestly done is a much worse problem them a few people getting their lockout on a WB a few days early. But then I don't foam at the mouth like Cujo every exploit.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Khiriath