Yet another slap in the mouth to world PVP players

[mmmbuddah]

Ok

1. Ignore whats-his-name. You'll enjoy your time more with him on the ignore list.

 

2. Please stop whining about the PVP. Adapt or move on. PVE is already all jacked to hell trying to balance for PVP.

 

Thanks.

 

Lol. PvE "messed up". That's hilarious actually, I can play all ops, all story lines, all flashpoints no problem, all classes, some are a little more difficult than others, but I can do it. Now, you cannot say that about PvP. If you do, you obviously never did pvp.

[Ghisallo]

Spoken like a typical PVE elitist... Enough said

 

Well tbh he is right BUT for the wrong reason. By this I mean the following.

 

World PvP used to be both more self regulating and have more regulation from the Devs. Back when you had measurable death penalties, server rules that limited people from being able to have toons in both factions and ratios that prevented one faction from having overwhelming numbers the dynamic that they were referring to, while not eliminated, was minimized because the game controlled one faction from simply being able to steamroll the other with simple numbers and the fact that dying HURT it made you think more about when, where and how you engage in PvP.

 

Without this structure, when Illum was introduced, Bioware was BEGGING for a train wreck. Was it the fault of some players not "behaving themselves"? Maybe but I tend to think it was because BW did not have the structures in place that encourage competitive PvP. Like I said I am old school. I don't want PvP where what faction I pick is 3/4 of the battle, where I have no fear of getting killed because there is no penalty and it is simply an endless cycle of die, respawn, die respawn with a very minimal credit cost to repair my gear.

 

To use a rl analogy... World PvP here (and more than a few other MMOs) reminds me of a 10 on 1 match of Laser tag. Due tot he numbers you are never actually at a statistical risk of getting taken out and unlike paint ball it doesn't even sting a little.

[Bluerodian]

Lol. PvE "messed up". That's hilarious actually, I can play all ops, all story lines, all flashpoints no problem, all classes, some are a little more difficult than others, but I can do it. Now, you cannot say that about PvP. If you do, you obviously never did pvp.

I did world pvp back in the days of EQ with Free For All that ignored faction and death penalties that were brutal, but at the same time more regulated. Everything since has been too meh to be interesting on the PVP front to hold my jnterest. Pretty much the same with raiding.

 

On to the other matter. Pve should never be altered in any way shape or form for pvp and vice versa. The balancing and skill changed should not overlap.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Bluerodian

[Ghisallo]

I did world pvp back in the days of EQ with Free For All that ignored faction and death penalties that were brutal, but at the same time more regulated. Everything since has been too meh to be interesting on the PVP front to hold my jnterest. Pretty much the same with raiding.

 

Its amazing how death penalties will regulate PvP because it discourages the suicide soldier lemming zerg dynamic. What is sad is that people say that death penalties are lame but if they haven't experienced them they can't appreciate just how much more intense encounters were and how much bigger the rush was when you came out on top.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Bluerodian]

Its amazing how death penalties will regulate PvP because it discourages the suicide soldier lemming zerg dynamic. What is sad is that people say that death penalties are lame but if they haven't experienced them they can't appreciate just how much more intense encounters were and how much bigger the rush was when you came out on top.

I do miss the days of XP loss and corpse runs for the loser.

[Aries_cz]

The ultimate carebear complaint. Do please note that I totally respect your right to complain that it's not fair you're so bad at PVP.

 

Actually, without Expertise, Open World PvP (and PvP in general) would be so much more about who plays their class better

[ForceWelder]

Wow, the Gree event that's only around 2 times a year. That's some great world PVP right there. Even better when it comes next time, during 12x EXP and almost no one on Jung Ma will be running it anyway. I can tell you really thought that one through.

 

World PVP on PVP servers isn't "special treatment." It's the basic feature of PVP servers that is promised in the descriptions of those servers. I can tell you've never been on a PVP server in your life, based on this response.

 

World PVP doesn't work when pubs and imps both share the same 3-inch roads. If Ziost was open for PVP, the pubs on JM would never have gotten past the first area unless all of their big guilds came to clear the imps out. Even the designated PVP area in the Gree event is a giant circle with multiple entrances to prevent that problem.

 

You failed to make any points, but at least you actually tried to respond to what I said. Good work.

 

Agreed. I would add just one other thing. Population on PVP servers is getting completely one sided. PoT5 has got to be amoung the worse. Easily 3 to 1 advantage to the Imps. Some would argue the numbers are closer to 4 or 5 to 1. That is not open world PVP. That is open slaughter.

 

Open world PVP only works when you have a three faction system. Otherwise it turns into a complete domination by one faction over the other. It all comes down to numbers. Plan and simple. When on my Repub commando on Yavin, it is rare that I don't get harassed by Imps. There aren't enough Repubs on planet to even remotely fight back. But when playing my Imp toons, you would think I was on a PVE server. You don't see Repubs and when you do they don't do a thing to instigate combat.

 

To the OP, if you are looking for open world PVP, this is definately not the game for you. Even when the game first released and we had Ilum to play around in, open world PVP was dead even then. All the massive fights ended the same way on my old server. Repubs would take ground, the word would go out at Imp fleet there was a fight, and the Repubs would then get slaughter and pushed all the way back to their base. Even at release the number difference between the two factions was huge.

[ZionHalcyon]

Typical elitist PVE fan Boy... Doesn't care about his fellow players with legitimate concerns... As long as Bio keeps adding new PVE content you will be happy to troll pvp people... "If" Bio ever releases new content without any PVE content you'll be the first to whine and threaten to quit over it...

Get over yourself and go troll somewhere else

 

...you say to the guy who has been here since launch....

 

 

Anyway, I could cry over how the devs trying to balance PvP have screwed with PvE players - Sorc immediately comes to mind - but instead, I'll just grab some more popcorn and listen to the pot calling the kettle black....

[ZionHalcyon]

I did world pvp back in the days of EQ with Free For All that ignored faction and death penalties that were brutal, but at the same time more regulated. Everything since has been too meh to be interesting on the PVP front to hold my jnterest. Pretty much the same with raiding.

 

On to the other matter. Pve should never be altered in any way shape or form for pvp and vice versa. The balancing and skill changed should not overlap.

 

Completely agree.

 

The PvP balances have made PvE a lot less fun. The two SHOULD be kept independent.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Spoken like a typical PVE elitist... Enough said

 

Spoken like a typical PVP ganking moron. Nuff said.

[ForceWelder]

Actually, without Expertise, Open World PvP (and PvP in general) would be so much more about who plays their class better

 

I disagree.

 

You assume it is a one on one fight. That is hardly been my experience. Open world PVP falls into one of two categories. Either a small group in PVP gear go hunting solo players. Or you get FOTM players who attack quest grinders who have abilities on CD.

 

In either scenario you end up with a one sided fight in the favor of the aggressor. And the aggressors are almost pre-dominately the dominate faction on the server.

 

As soon as you put up a fight, you get tagged by every PVP player on the planet. You either get constantly harassed or you simply make the decision to leave planet. Either way, your game play is completely impacted by a few players who play the numbers game against you.

[Aries_cz]

I disagree.

 

You assume it is a one on one fight. That is hardly been my experience. Open world PVP falls into one of two categories. Either a small group in PVP gear go hunting solo players. Or you get FOTM players who attack quest grinders who have abilities on CD.

 

However, without expertise, that quest grinder would have more fighting chance. Fighting in PvE gear against someone in 2018 expertise gear is pointless, as you do almost zero damage.

 

But sure, fighting against group of gankers is nearly impossible, but again, without expertise, and the ludicrous bonuses it provides against 0 expertise player, it would give more room to maneuver, instead of being instantly roflstomped.

[Atalantia]

However, without expertise, that quest grinder would have more fighting chance. Fighting in PvE gear against someone in 2018 expertise gear is pointless, as you do almost zero damage.

 

But sure, fighting against group of gankers is nearly impossible, but again, without expertise, and the ludicrous bonuses it provides against 0 expertise player, it would give more room to maneuver, instead of being instantly roflstomped.

 

 

I agree the addition of a privileged PvP stat ruins most open world and sometime instanced pvp.

 

Example take rift when it released with 6 ranks of pvp progression and six tiers of gear one for each rank

 

At Rank 6 I could basically one shot anyone in rank 3 or below gear. That makes PvP competitive doesn't it

[Sathid]

The day there is one of every republic to Imperial in a zone etc then yes i can be for it 100% until then ,nope you Imperials have killed the immersion of the "war" inbetween the two sides,blame yourselves not me i play Republic 90% of the time.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I agree the addition of a privileged PvP stat ruins most open world and sometime instanced pvp.

 

Example take rift when it released with 6 ranks of pvp progression and six tiers of gear one for each rank

 

At Rank 6 I could basically one shot anyone in rank 3 or below gear. That makes PvP competitive doesn't it

 

I would continue to argue that DAoC (Dark Ages of Camelot) was the best game for Open World PVP ever and married it with a PVE game quite well. The new Frontiers and Atlantis stuff killed the game for me so I can not judge that but the prior game was excellent.

 

Players used their same gear in PVP as they would in PVE. There was no special stat for PVP players. This game made the mistake f copying the WoW model for some reason, even though there were people from Mythic involved so I really don't understand why they went with the model of WoW outside of likely being directed to by Management that had some crazed idea that to be a wow killer you had to be just like WoW.

 

I don't think they understood that WoW was good because it borrowed so many different ideas from different source materials and put it in a slick package. Their PVP was an afterthought and wasn't the best system.

[ZionHalcyon]

The day there is one of every republic to Imperial in a zone etc then yes i can be for it 100% until then ,nope you Imperials have killed the immersion of the "war" inbetween the two sides,blame yourselves not me i play Republic 90% of the time.

 

Depends on the server. Rebs tend to dominate on Harbinger in the way you mentioned.

[TUXs]

Actually, without Expertise, Open World PvP (and PvP in general) would be so much more about who plays their class better

I'd love it if PvP and PvE gear were the same levels. Expertise is a cancer.

[FalmeseReb]

However, without expertise, that quest grinder would have more fighting chance. Fighting in PvE gear against someone in 2018 expertise gear is pointless, as you do almost zero damage.

 

But sure, fighting against group of gankers is nearly impossible, but again, without expertise, and the ludicrous bonuses it provides against 0 expertise player, it would give more room to maneuver, instead of being instantly roflstomped.

 

Nobody on pvp servers does open world quests in pve gear lol.. theres no need to planet quests/dailies are absurdly easy and the threat of getting ganked makes pvp armor a far more attractive option.

[TUXs]

Nobody on pvp servers does open world quests in pve gear lol.. theres no need to planet quests/dailies are absurdly easy and the threat of getting ganked makes pvp armor a far more attractive option.

This! And those who do/did wear PvE gear, learn quickly why they shouldn't.

[leehambly]

This! And those who do/did wear PvE gear, learn quickly why they shouldn't.

 

idk tbh, I'm not sure - does everyone on a pvp server wear pvp armour in ow questing? I don't. I do if Yavin is a bit snippy, but that's it... why slow yourself down for the sake of a vague possibility.

 

As for "ow pvp"... my tuppence on it, expertise is horribly ill thought out, very basically it favours dps > tank > heals (look at the tooltip) and for that alone it's balls. they should make everyones life easier and just junk the whole system. Award elite comms for wz.

[DrDMonkey]

"Sister"

 

She's from Canada, you wouldn't know her.

[TUXs]

idk tbh, I'm not sure - does everyone on a pvp server wear pvp armour in ow questing? I don't. I do if Yavin is a bit snippy, but that's it... why slow yourself down for the sake of a vague possibility.

 

As for "ow pvp"... my tuppence on it, expertise is horribly ill thought out, very basically it favours dps > tank > heals (look at the tooltip) and for that alone it's balls. they should make everyones life easier and just junk the whole system. Award elite comms for wz.

 

Not everyone, no...but most people I know, always do. And I'd love it if PvPers just got set piece 192 gear...I'd be perfectly fine with the removal of Expertise.

[okimbored]

bit late to the party, but if basically unrestricted OW PVP is your game I'd suggest looking into Pathfinder online

[MisterBlackJack]

Maybe we'll find a game where there's fewer players who ruin their pants when faced with people like me posting opinions without their permission!

 

Maybe, just maybe, if you whine hard enough about opinions being posted without your permission, people will just stop having unauthorized opinions! That doesn't seem likely.

 

Feel free to actually get on topic and respond to anything I actually said in my first post. Oh, wait, you can't!

 

Oh the irony

[Aries_cz]

Not everyone, no...but most people I know, always do. And I'd love it if PvPers just got set piece 192 gear...I'd be perfectly fine with the removal of Expertise.

 

Sure, but I think the system of PvP rewards would need to be reworked as well.

I have nothing in theory against PvP rewarding the same gear as PvE does, but it would have to be only for "winning" in PvP content, and have it be on similar difficulty.

Currently, even if you fail every PvP fight, you can still grind your way to the gear, unlike in PvE, which requires you to "win" in PvE content (meaning kill boss).