Healing reduced by 30% in pvp. WHY!?

[xHPx]

expertise is technically irrelevant

yes, it increases healing output, but it also increases dps output, thereby cancelling itself out, its only a prob if person A has some and person B doesnt.

 

You're 100% wrong. It gives damage, reduced damage taken and +healing. Damage and Reduced Damage cancels themself out.

 

Let's say you have 30% expertise. 30% Damage + 30% Damage reduction. Take those away cause they cancel themself out. Then +30% healing is the only gian when playing versus players with equal expertise, making healers even more OP the more geared players gets. Healers are exponentially going to get stronger and stronger the older the game gets. Expertise has a critical design flaw that needs fixing. They need to either remove the reduced damage taken or remove the reduced damage done. I'm hoping BioWare will adress this asap.

[Cinawyn]

As a seer pvp is just stupid. I cant out heal the damage and I cant out damage the healing making my pvp experience... crap!

 

Imperial agent (not lvl 50 with all teh gear) stabs me for 3k each and they can get 3 stabs off in the time it takes me to un-stun myself. So Im dead whatever.

 

Pvp as it is is basicly a waste of time.

 

I got crited 6k by an aoe today when I cant even crit more than 1.5k as a seer. Also my heals which Im speced in dont ever crit that high. 4k is my bigest heal crit so how as a healer am I ment to heal.

[Lindraskada]

LOL xD "Hey guys i'm top 2 healers... out of 2". The avarage Warzone has 2 healers, you manage to break top2 is truly amazing. All you're doing is proving my point You playing healer for 10years doesn't prove anything. That just shows that you have zero talent if you played it that long and still can't succeed even remotively ^_^

 

few things

youve got X on either side of your name, which flags you as a bit of cretin, nice to see my assumptions & prejudices are still being upheld..

 

if you look at any given scoreboard there are normally what i would call 3-5 "healers" and then "some people with some healing done", there usually being a large gap between the 2 categories.

 

remotively isnt even a word , but we'll let that one slide

 

as to the 10 years things, yes it does actually. and it also reinforces the point that i know what im talking about , been here before somewhat

[JediDuckling]

You're 100% wrong. It gives damage, reduced damage taken and +healing. Damage and Reduced Damage cancels themself out.

 

Let's say you have 30% expertise. 30% Damage + 30% Damage reduction. Take those away cause they cancel themself out. Then +30% healing is the only gian when playing versus players with equal expertise, making healers even more OP the more geared players gets. Healers are exponentially going to get stronger and stronger the older the game gets. Expertise has a critical design flaw that needs fixing. They need to either remove the reduced damage taken or remove the reduced damage done. I'm hoping BioWare will adress this asap.

 

bewm there we go thats kinda what i was trying to say <3

 

 

expertise has a major roll in healing and it makes healing pretty OP b ecause of it.

 

 

ty again for explaining that lol

[xHPx]

few things

youve got X on either side of your name, which flags you as a bit of cretin, nice to see my assumptions & prejudices are still being upheld..

 

if you look at any given scoreboard there are normally what i would call 3-5 "healers" and then "some people with some healing done", there usually being a large gap between the 2 categories.

 

remotively isnt even a word , but we'll let that one slide

 

as to the 10 years things, yes it does actually. and it also reinforces the point that i know what im talking about , been here before somewhat

 

Stopped reading after your first sentance. "You have x in your name so therefor, your argument is invalid" - That is the argument of the beaten. And gj dodging my expertise comment which completely proved you deadwrong.

[JediDuckling]

few things

youve got X on either side of your name, which flags you as a bit of cretin, nice to see my assumptions & prejudices are still being upheld..

 

if you look at any given scoreboard there are normally what i would call 3-5 "healers" and then "some people with some healing done", there usually being a large gap between the 2 categories.

 

remotively isnt even a word , but we'll let that one slide

 

as to the 10 years things, yes it does actually. and it also reinforces the point that i know what im talking about , been here before somewhat

 

 

there are more aoe dps abilitys than there is aoe heal abilitys. im pretty sure the squishy mages class's have the only AOE heals in game.

 

im pretty sure that the reason though

[Repefe]

bewm there we go thats kinda what i was trying to say <3

 

expertise has a major roll in healing and it makes healing pretty OP b ecause of it.

 

ty again for explaining that lol

 

Pst. Don't tell it to anyone ... the way it is now we can get some of them to quit before the word gets around. A month or two withtout WoW healing ridicule would be nice.

[Lindraskada]

You're 100% wrong. It gives damage, reduced damage taken and +healing. Damage and Reduced Damage cancels themself out.

 

Let's say you have 30% expertise. 30% Damage + 30% Damage reduction. Take those away cause they cancel themself out. Then +30% healing is the only gian when playing versus players with equal expertise, making healers even more OP the more geared players gets.

 

quick maths:

 

100 damage

+ 30 %

= 130 damage

 

 

with me so far ?

 

now

130 damage

-30%

= 91

 

 

now

healing

100 healing done

-30% for debuff

= 70

+30% for expertise

91 healing

 

holy ****, did you see that ?

this however rellies on things like cast speed, delve, hps/dps, etc, being exactly the same

[Homicidal_Maniac]

I am a healer and I approve of the debuff. It makes it more balanced overall, plus expertise lowers the trauma received so get geared and you'll receive better heals.

[Repefe]

holy ****, did you see that ?

this however rellies on things like cast speed, delve, hps/dps, etc, being exactly the same

Is there a source that proves the multiplicative stacking of buffs/debuffs you use ? With the exp buff stacking it seems like BW went for additive stacking for pvp stats.

[Mr_Gallows]

If you're having issues as a healer you're seriously bad at the game. You can pop a bubble and heal to full while several people attack you.

 

If anything the bubbles should be nerfed in pvp.

[Krabcakes]

"I want to be invincible with 5 people beating on me WAAAAHHHH!"

[Rivianchief]

Why do people *****? I doubt it was a necessary change, considering there hasn't been a 50 vs 50 bracket yet (?). The decision was rushed, just like in WoW decisions are rushed. Leading to quality loss

 

And that comes from a person who played wow and almost shot himself everytime he saw a healer in BG. Healers there are def. too strong. Are healers in TOR too strong? Who is to say. The lvl 12 guy who just joined the bg and then cried when he got crushed by a lvl 46 healer?

 

Why can't people just wait and see what happens? And I really don't see how you can cry in SWTOR pvp. The balance is terrible, just like the PvP itself. Even cataclysm isn't that bad PvP wise, so whats the point in crying like a baby?

 

The PvP is not good, and everyone saying so, lives in denial. Then again, this is not a pvp game, and I doubt its ever gonna be one. Everyone can play what he wants and its great that some of you enjoy the pvp. But I am sure the healing is not the issue why you can't enjoy it.

 

Nerfing it so soon was a terrible idea, because most of you guys are still low lvls (including me btw).

[Lindraskada]

If you're having issues as a healer you're seriously bad at the game. You can pop a bubble and heal to full while several people attack you.

 

If anything the bubbles should be nerfed in pvp.

 

i cant speak for the other trees, but as an aside, you do know the "+10% / 20% absord sorc bubble" buff is in the Lightning Damage tree, NOT the Corruption Healing tree... just saying

 

however it is the only insta cast defence we get , apart from the 6c CD hot. move the "improve bubble" into high healing tree. solved, sort of

[Krabcakes]

Why do people *****? I doubt it was a necessary change, considering there hasn't been a 50 vs 50 bracket yet (?). The decision was rushed, just like in WoW decisions are rushed. Leading to quality loss

 

And that comes from a person who played wow and almost shot himself everytime he saw a healer in BG. Healers there are def. too strong. Are healers in TOR too strong? Who is to say. The lvl 12 guy who just joined the bg and then cried when he got crushed by a lvl 46 healer?

 

Why can't people just wait and see what happens? And I really don't see how you can cry in SWTOR pvp. The balance is terrible, just like the PvP itself. Even cataclysm isn't that bad PvP wise, so whats the point in crying like a baby?

 

The PvP is not good, and everyone saying so, lives in denial. Then again, this is not a pvp game, and I doubt its ever gonna be one. Everyone can play what he wants and its great that some of you enjoy the pvp. But I am sure the healing is not the issue why you can't enjoy it.

 

Nerfing it so soon was a terrible idea, because most of you guys are still low lvls (including me btw).

 

 

So.

 

1. Your opinion is all that matters and everyone else is wrong no matter what.

2. You are not 50 yet.

3. You don't even like pvp but somehow are a master of balance.

 

 

Thanks for letting everyone know that they can pretty much ignore your post.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Krabcakes

[xHPx]

quick maths:

 

100 damage

+ 30 %

= 130 damage

 

 

with me so far ?

 

now

130 damage

-30%

= 91

 

 

now

healing

100 healing done

-30% for debuff

= 70

+30% for expertise

91 healing

 

holy ****, did you see that ?

this however rellies on things like cast speed, delve, hps/dps, etc, being exactly the same

 

The 30% healing debuff is ALWAYS there lol. Expertise almost negates it which makes it useless. And 30% was only an example and you're useing it as mathematical proof of expertise not favouring healers? Jesus christ. You're really not the sharpest tool in the box.

Edited January 8, 2012 by xHPx

[Lindraskada]

The 30% healing debuff is ALWAYS there lol. Expertise almost negates it which makes it useless. And 30% was only an example and you're useing it as mathematical proof of expertise not favouring healers? Jesus christ. You're really not the sharpest tool in the box.

 

yes i know its always there, thanks for failing to read though.

your using 30% as an example ? no ****, so am i. its RELATIVE.

 

but thanks for playing

[Foenixz]

before the 30 percent debuff, if there was more than one healer on the opposing team your team would get crushed. not because they were any good, but because they could just heal through any damage for all their team mates. it was ridiculous. you could get five people trying to kill one healer and even with interrupts they'd still be able to heal themselves from almost dead to full health.

 

 

 

it was not fun. and rather than punish pve by futzing with the base healing for healing classes they added a flat 30 percent debuff on healing for pvp. problem solved.

 

This I played against a tean that head 4 healers on it not ago and it wasn't fun

[Rivianchief]

So.

 

1. Your opinion is all that matters and everyone else is wrong no matter what.

2. You are not 50 yet.

3. You don't even like pvp but somehow are a master of balance.

 

 

Thanks for letting everyone know that they can pretty much ignore your post.

 

@1: When did I say this?

@2: Yes and I know lots of others aren't either. 50 brackets dont exist yet, therefore gearscaling can't be valued properly, so I ask again, how can you base your accusation that healing is "obviously" too strong, when you have no standing argument against it besides some warzone dmg/healing meters?

@3: I like PvP usually, SWTOR PvP is just not good. Period. And you are the masters of balance apparently. Its always the best strategy to reduce specc viabilities after 2-3 weeks of gaming, when most people are still in their lvl 30's. A mastermind move indeed. Like you have forseen that Healing will still be OP once 50 brackets exist.

 

You should use your brain. You guys cry for healing nerfs while not having any real ground that could justify a healing nerf. The current warzones are not suffice to state that certain classes or healing/dmg is OP. Its a wild mixture of different levels. Only because a lvl 15 gets boosted up to lvl 50 health and dmg stats doesn't mean its a viable source of information for future balancing. If you can't see that, you have no clue about pvp, period.

[dopebeats]

I play a medic specced operative. I think healing in WZ is ok, but it def has its problems. However, the whole game has its design problems. The lack of a combat log makes it more difficult to juke heals as you lack the basic information to tell if they have used an their interrupt or not. Or even basic info about what type of burst DPS are putting out. Also, actually having abilities go off when used needs to be fixed. Having focus castbars actually work. Really, in general just having a an all around better UI. Pvping in this game and combat in this game in general just feels sloppy. I think the biggest issue, specifically in long run, is simply class/spec design and function in regards to combat mechanics. Its more faceroll abilities and react to whats going on instead of anticipating and planning out a sequence for how to deal with different situations. Positioning and spacing seems to only be an afterthought. It seems to follow the talent trees of WoW (this tree forces healing/this tree dps) however it seems to lack the important details of different matchups and class/spec synergy. Intricate things such as the way cooldowns lineup between classes to create certain fight dynamics seems to be ignored(think warrior vs hunter vanilla wow). I think with the many bugs and general feeling of incomplete features in this game an overall revamp is going to eventually going to happen. With that I think you should apply some of the creativity that you included in the voice acting/story and add it to the gameplay. One thing I hear my friend who plays a sniper complain about is that take cover seems to have a few bugs. I think this idea was a great idea but was implemented terribly. Why not allow it to be a mobility tool and give it a cooldown and allow the individual a creative way to control it(positioning). Maybe balance this by making the sniper most effective at certain ranges(spacing). On a healing note and as an overall note from many years of playing MMOs. Nerfing/Buffing damage by percentages is usally a bad idea, especially in pvp. It is easier to do and will address the problems at hand it affects scalability in unforeseen ways. A more tedious and better way is to give other classes/specs ways to better deal with the problems(counters). While overall I want this game to succeed it feels rushed and design not thoroughly thought through. What is even scarier is the lack of communication BW has had throughout this launch. Its as though they have no direction for where they want to take the game. This game seems to lack direction on all fronts, from class design all the way down to addons/macros. We even have a legacy system that we get points for that we have no idea what it is going to do. Give us something to get excited about. Give us (non ambiguous) details about the direction of this game BW.

[Migrayn]

Healing is fine. I primarily heal and its tough, but it works. If I am left alone, I can keep up a teammate who has 2-3 people on him. I can keep myself up with 1-2 people interrupting and hitting me. This is about where it should be. I think it encourages CC and more creative play from us, not just heal spamming.

 

You must be playing a sage/sorc because my OP can't keep anyone or myself alive healing if 2 people are attacking.

[Nordicus]

Healing is fine. I primarily heal and its tough, but it works. If I am left alone, I can keep up a teammate who has 2-3 people on him. I can keep myself up with 1-2 people interrupting and hitting me. This is about where it should be. I think it encourages CC and more creative play from us, not just heal spamming.

 

My tank spec Powertech can easily desimate 2-3 players alone if I get heals from one healer and those player are stupid and ignore healer totally allowing him totally just focus healing me.

 

It dosent matter if they all focus on me same time.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Nordicus

[Redxlll]

The problem isn't healing, it's the fact that most interrupts if not all DON'T lock out that school of casting for a certain period of time. So I interrupt a Healers current cast, no prob they can just instantly recast it. I can stun / choke but only twice then Resolve Bar kicks in. They need a silence along with a successful interrupt for that type of school that was casted imo.

[Vincedaddy]

Seems like the forums have been utilized by jaded 1500 rating wow players that realize "omg I'm going to be bad at another mmo I'm going to sink countless hours into!" QQ Rabble Rabble Rabble! Healers are fine I'll admit healing spec sorcerer/sage bubbles are a little op but healing as a whole isn't under or overpowered by any means. That is all

[Nilatis]

That's pretty much it. The trauma debuff is used to offset PvP and PvE group balance involving healers against on the PvE balance numbers numbers. We could also just change the numbers (health, damage) in the rest of the game to achieve the same effect, but that'd be much less efficient.

 

I have now played a Level 50 Sith Sorcerer healer and Level 50 Jedi Sage healer in PVP since the game started, and I can tell you for certain that healing is reduced in PVP combat. I heal for 7000 (Critical) in PVE, and 5000 (Critical) in PVP, taking into consideration that some classes have a Healing Increase by 8% from their Ability Tree. The reason why I heal for that much is because I use my items and abilities in a way that makes sure I heal for that much. Other players may not know how to heal for that much, therefore will have a bigger issue with healing.

 

On top of the healing reduction that is already there, as soon as a target has been debuffed with this, rather overpowered Healing Reduction ability, which makes my heal go from, not 7000 (Critical in PVE), not 5000 (Critical in PVP), but barely 3000 (Critical), the target I am healing cannot be kept alive anymore. Last time I was in PVP combat, we were two healers present, who knew how to and had the ability to heal for the exact amount I wrote above, but together we could not keep that one target alive although there were only two people doing damage on him and we were both spamming heals.

 

The healing reduction is, well, I can bare with it as it is now, but when players begin to become more aware of that ability and begin to spam it on everyone in PVP there will be no reason for anyone to play Healer in PVP anymore. Not to mention that healers can barely get any proper medals. Basically, what I am saying is, if someone does not make up for some of the things healers are being dismissed for, left and right, people will slowly quit playing healers in PVP, and from then on there will be a lack of healers.

 

Put it in mind.

 

 

- Regn

Edited January 16, 2012 by Nilatis